Author Topic: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement  (Read 11385 times)

Offline archer

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Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« on: October 07, 2008, 02:33:48 PM »
I've seen this and wondered if anyone can provide more info on it:

"One teaspoon of "Lite Salt"(by Morton, 1/2 iodized potassium chloride,
1/2 sodium chloride in a blue cylinder), 1/3 teaspoon of baking soda
(sodium bicarbonate), 10 teaspoons of table sugar (sucrose), and one quart
of water. That happens to be a life saving fluid replacement and partial
electrolyte expedient replacement. At least it is expedient if you have
had the foresight to purchase the above three items BEFORE an emergency
happens while it is readily available and very cheap. Many people die in
times of emergency because of fluid losses. This can be from burns,
vomiting, or diarrhea. The body needs water and certain water soluble
chemicals to function. If either or both of these drop below a certain
level, you die. There are many non-fatal diseases like cholera that become
fatal due to lack of simple things like proper fluid replacement."



Offline archer

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 10:58:11 AM »
A follow up from my brother who has a PHD in BioChemistry. He buys a pre-packaged mix in larger quantities to use for bike riding and will leave stores of it at his monolithic dome cabin he's building down in Southern California:

---

  The brand I buy is GU2O sports drink electrolyte replacement.  There are at least raspberry and citrate (std gatorade)flavors.
Note that the sugar in this drink is fructose (fruit sugar) which is a small monosaccharide but mainly maltodextrn which is
large sugar that takes your body a little while to metabolize and therefore sustains the sugar load to your boday longer (and
makes the sugar high less pronounced).  Because most of the sugar is maltodextrin your taste buds don't recognize it as sweet so
it is not as overwhelming as gatorade or a soda.  I don't know how many brands now use maltodextrin versus sucrose, the standard
table sugar dissacharide.

  I buy it in 2 lb packages and keep a full one around the house and plan to keep a full one at the dome when it gets a little
more abode like. 


Old Country Herbs

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 04:00:57 PM »
I don't know if this will help as I feel like I'm repeating you, I keep these ingredients on hand just in case and it is better for you then the stuff in the store because of the additional ingredients. The following is cut and pasted from www.vintageremedies.com

Electrolyte drinks are a staple in the home with a pregnant wife or small child. They help prevent dehydration during labor and childhood illnesses. Yet, the ingredient list is often pretty scary. If you have never looked at one, you would probably be appalled at what you see. They are not at all natural, and certainly nothing we want to give a sick baby or child (or laboring mama). However, dehydration is a real concern and the concept of an electrolyte drink is a good one indeed, which is why we like to make these all natural drinks at home. (Tip: Be sure to use mineral salt and pure, natural ingredients!)

Lemon-aide
1 cup water
1 T lemon juice
1/4 t salt
pinch baking soda
1 T agave nectar

Cran-aide
1 cup water
1/3 cup cranberry juice
1/4 t salt
pinch baking soda

Other Flavored Drinks
1 cup water
1/3 cup grape juice / orange juice / berry juice
1/4 t salt
pinch baking soda

Offline ColdHaven

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 07:45:18 PM »
STD Gatorade? I think I will skip drinking that kind.  :-X

I carry in my EDC and BOB some single packages of gatorade rehydration packs. They are supposed to be for a 20 oz bottle, but I think they would do for any time you would need it.

When I was in Basic I had heard from one of our Drill Sergeants that someone had drank so much water at another Base that it washed out all of their electrolytes from their body and they died. Water alone does not save you. Of course, when you do not drink enough water or electrolytes your brain slowly bakes.

Makes you almost want to carry one of those packs everywhere you go. :)

James Yeager

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 08:20:53 PM »
Here is a video I made about proper hydration as it relates to training, fighting and survival http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyLERjlPlzM&feature=channel_page

Offline ColdHaven

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2009, 05:43:08 AM »
+1 James! You covered this subject and all of its important points very well. The only thing I would like to add is that some people do not properly hydrate when it is cold because they do not think they will sweat as much or what have you. You are constantly losing moisture from your body from breathing. Even when it is cold out, if you are doing any kind of activity, it is good to stay hydrated. Maybe I am over doing it, but I think I wind up drinking somewhere between half to a full gallon of water a day. I believe that no matter what activity you are doing you should have water available or have a means to obtain water. If you are doing stenous activity then I believe you should have some kind of way to get electrolytes into your system as well. Not two bad items to have in every EDC.

Offline Dirt Rider 3006

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 06:00:53 AM »
I drink a lot of water each day also. Close to 80oz. a day. I have a compressed disc in my back. When I drink a lot of water I feel better, I guess it helps keep the cartilage saturated as well as the muscles in the area. On days when I don't drink as much, I'm prone to muscle spasms and back pain.

If you didn't read my post about being sick a couple of weeks ago, well I ran a 103 (average temp) fever for a few days and just drank water and some juice while I was down for the count. On the day I went to the doc's I stopped and bought a quart of Gatoraide while I was getting my prescriptions filled. That quart didn't last the ride home, my body was just absorbing the electrolytes as fast as I could put them into it. That night my wife bought me a gallon of Gatoraide and I drank that mixed 50/50 with water in a day and a half. My body was craving it, it went down like I was drinking air.

I'm now adding Gatoraide drink mix to our preps.

Offline docred

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 01:11:30 AM »
Just to comment a little... this is a great topic.

There several great recipes out out there for rehydration formulas. Google search (try "WHO rehydration") will let you know a little more about different ones. These are lifesaving in GI illness, particularly in those situations where IV therapy is not available.  This is a well proven therapy that has literally saved 10s of thousands of lives in countries less affluent then ours.

The basic theory is that water is more quickly absorbed if there is a favorable concentration of glucose and salt with it.

1:1 gatorade and water is probably the easiest way to approximate this from the corner store. Its not ideal, but close. Regular gatorade = too high glucose concentration.

As far as drinking too much water and dying... Yes this can happen. Major risk factors are young people, accustomed to the heat (they sweat a larger volume), and taking ibuprofen/naproxen/asprin (reduce the kidney's ability to compensate). The main concern is hyponatremia, which can lead to seizures. While rehydration drinks are fine when doing heavy extertion, eating a some crackers or really almost anything would prevent this as well.

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 01:49:09 AM »
I see a lot of patients who get crazy with energy drinks and sports drinks, and end up dumping their blood sugar (rockstar) or otherwise feeling like crap. Keep in mind what Docred said about the glucose concentration and its osmotic pull, and dilute your gatorade by half with water.

Many of the so called rehydration drink recipes you see in books are old wives tales put into written form by arm-chair survivalists with no practical knowledge. If you are caring for someone who is dehydrated or at risk of becoming dehydrated and you have no access to modern medicine, I would give consideration to "Rehydration Drink," which is described in David Werner's book Where There Is No Doctor.

He describes two ways to make this drink. I'll paraphrase. The first is very similar to the recipe posted by the original poster, but with less salt and no bicarb:

1L clean water
1/2 tsp salt
8 level tsp sugar or molasses
Before adding sugar make sure the drink tastes less salty than tears.

The second way uses powdered cereal and salt:

1L clean water
1/2 tsp salt
8 heaping tsp (or 2 handfuls) of powdered cereal.
Boil 5-7 minutes to form a liquid gruel or watery porridge.

To either drink add 1/2 cup fruit juice, coconut water or mashed ripe banana - adapt the drink to whatever area you are working in.

James Yeager

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 07:35:34 AM »
 O.R.S. - Oral Rehydration Salts http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_177&products_id=2258

Oral Rehydration Salts.

Usage:
For replacement of water and electrolytes lost during moderate to sever diarrhea.

Features:
-World Health Organization (WHO) formula.
-Safe, economical alternative to IV therapy or pre-mixed solutions.
-2% glucose solution to promote sodium and water absorption and provide energy.
-Durable, lightweight pouch makes shipping, storage or travel use practical.
-Formulated with trisodium citrate to enhance product stability.
-Directions for use in the languages (English, Spanish and French) on each package.
-27.9 gram packet.

Dosage & Administration:
One 27.9 gram packet dissolved in one liter of drinking water.
To be taken orally.
*Adults - Over a 4 hour period for acute diarrhea or as otherwise
directed under medical supervision.
*Children - Over an 8 to 24 hour period , according to age or as
otherwise directed under medical supervision.
*Infants - Over a 24 hour period.

*DO NOT OPEN PACKET UNTIL TIME OF USE.
*DISCARD UNUSED SOLUTION AFET 24 HOURS.
*CAUTION: DO NOT BOIL SOLUTION.

Ingredients:
Each packet contains the equivalent of:
Sodium Chloride - 3.5g
Potassium Chloride - 1.5g
Trisodium Citrate , dihydrate - 2.9g
Dextrose Anhydrous - 20.0g

Provides :
Sodium (mEq) 21.3 -Per 8 Fl Oz - 90 Per Liter
Potassium (mEq) 4.7 -Per 8 Fl Oz - 20 Per Liter
Chloride (mEq) 19.0 -Per 8 Fl Oz - 80 Per Liter
Citrate (mEq) 2.4 -Per 8 Fl Oz - 10 Per Liter
Glucose (mEq) 26.2 -Per 8 Fl Oz - 111Per Liter


James Yeager

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 07:40:47 AM »
Vitalyte for 20oz bottle http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_177&products_id=3490



Vitalyte for 1 quart http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_177&products_id=2602



Vitalyte Kilos (2.2lbs) http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37_177&products_id=2950



Vitalyte (formally known as Gookinaid Hydralyte) Electrolyte Replacement with Glucose hydration sports drink Stick packet.

Use Vitalyte Stick Pack with a 16.9 oz. bottle of water.


For whatever you’re doing that makes you dehydrated and fatigued, whether it is an all-out effort that would leave you muscle-sore and wiped-out or a long drawn-out task that has you dead-tired and weary, even a desk job or housework ... or “coming down with something.” Gookinaid can help you get your task done and keep you feeling better ... and help you to recover so you’ll feel better the next day too!

? Biologically balanced for the most rapid fluid absorption possible.

? Fastest oral re-hydration and electrolyte balance therapy available.

? Replaces water and electrolyte levels in the proportions lost.

? Especially formulated to cause no digestive discomfort.

? Has no annoying after taste, no artificial sweeteners or preservatives.

? The ONLY drink that is so fast and effective it is called the “Oral I.V."

Because it is formulated to be innocuous in the stomach and to be absorbed directly from the stomach into circulation, Vitalyte sports drink will help settle your stomach if it is “queasy” and will be absorbed fast and effectively enough to quickly help relieve and prevent the effects of dehydration. In addition to heat stress, physical exertion and not drinking enough fluids, other conditions that cause dehydration include most illnesses such as colds and flu; the muscle soreness and “gritty” eyes that are the first symptoms are caused by cellular dehydration as are the more extreme effects of a hangover. Vomiting and diarrhea can cause such severe dehydration that intravenous saline solutions are often needed to prevent fatal consequences; this dehydration is the cause of deaths from influenza, cholera and dysentery. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy also cause acute dehydration and the resultant nausea and malaise.
You can use Vitalyte electrolyte replacement drink for these conditions that either cause dehydration or are caused by it.

Conditions that are caused by or involve dehydration and/or electrolyte loss:

? Heat
? Shock
? Stress
? Dialysis
? Cholera
? Diarrhea
? Exposure
? Dysentery
? Loss of Sleep
? Food Poisoning
? Travel & Malaise (“Tourista”)
? Colds, Flu and other Illnesses
? Chemotherapy and Radiation Therapy



Search and rescue teams began calling Vitalyte “an oral IV” after remote rescues in which the victims had little or no chance of surviving without intravenous fluids, and, with no I.V. equipment available, were given Vitalyte orally and recovered ... often enough to walk out on their own! Medical teams in Bangladesh, Peru and Rwanda have used it with great success in combating the usually fatal severe dehydration from cholera and dysentery, saving hundreds of lives.

Quart Packets each make one quart (4 servings).

Vitalyte is available in four refreshing flavors:
No-Aftertaste CITRUS DRINK (C) is best for intense competition or illnesses and malaise,
Light LEMONADE (L) or Flavorful FRUIT PUNCH (FP) flavors are great for most sports, recreation, and general rehydration
and the zesty ORANGE FLAVOR (Or) is recommended for recreational events, post-event rehydration and general fluid and electrolyte maintenance.
Absorption rates are the same for all flavors; only the taste and stomach “feel” are different; the more flavorful drinks are preferred when possible stomach discomfort may not be a factor.

Vitalyte contains no dairy, soy, yeast or animal products and no gluten or artificial flavors or preservatives. Glucose derived from corn.

*Diabetics: Vitalyte contains glucose. Use only with the advice of your medical professional.


SERVING TIPS:
To take Vitalyte , it must be reconstituted with water.
When added to water, stir the Vitalyte powder until completely dissolved.
For best results with Vitalyte , do not make the mixture more concentrated than directed.
Drink Vitalyte cold for the fastest absorption and the best taste.

Vitalyte , TAKE IT DAILY!:
Drink Vitalyte to help relieve thirst and rapidly replace essential energy-sustaining electrolytes and fluids. Mild, isotonic Vitalyte has been designed to improve physical endurance, mental acuity and reduce muscle soreness, cramping, fatigue and dehydration and its effects. Vitalyte can be consumed daily to maintain adequate hydration and electrolyte levels for improved functioning.

*Each Flavor/Stick sold separately

*Now carmine-free so it is suitable for vegan diet.

*Diabetics: Vitalyte contains glucose. Use only with the advice of your medical professional.

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 12:14:10 PM »
Quote
Search and rescue teams began calling Vitalyte “an oral IV” after remote rescues in which the victims had little or no chance of surviving without intravenous fluids, and, with no I.V. equipment available

I call bullshit.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.

Sounds like the commercial for the shamwow.

James Yeager

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 08:31:19 PM »
Regardless, it works as advertised.

Offline doublehelix

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 02:41:34 PM »
Gookinaid has been well known in competitive bicycling and distance backpacking circles for years.

Looks like they just re-named it.


Offline Heavy G

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 07:54:00 PM »
(This thread has been selected as a “best of” thread by Heavy G.  You can search for “best of” threads by using that term in the search mode.  Everyone on the forum is encouraged to reply to a post they think is “best of” worthy so we can all search for them.  For more information on the “best of” thing, see http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=3423.0 )

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Re: Fluid and Electrolyte Replacement
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2009, 01:26:40 PM »
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10674546

Quote
Coconut water is also used as an intravenous fluid in some third world countries where medical saline is unavailable.

just in case you don't happen upon any coconuts in the wild...  its also sold canned and in tetrapak