Author Topic: Manmade Super-flu!  (Read 23631 times)

Offline M14fan

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Manmade Super-flu!
« on: November 24, 2011, 09:25:44 PM »
I cannot fathom what would possess an academic to DO such a thing, much less why he would want to publish it.

https://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/

Offline caverdude

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 09:39:10 PM »
Well what this scientist has proven in a lab is that this virus has the ability in a very short time to become very contagious. We all then get to play a game of Russian Roulette with a gun that has a two bullet chamber with only one round in it. This means that in a very short period of time, the now 7 billion people on earth become 3.5 billion.  Humanity will continue of course, but with half of everyone you know young or old gone.

And yes the idea that they may publish anything, even the giving someone the idea to repeat there work is scary. On the other hand if there were any way to prepare for this pandemic it might save lives.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 10:26:47 PM »
I cannot fathom what would possess an academic to DO such a thing, much less why he would want to publish it.

The answer is down at the end of the article:

Quote
However the very same data, if made available to the scientific community, could potentially allow humanity to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic, which Fouchier’s study has shown to be far more probable than was previously believed. Clamping down on freedom of information in the scientific domain may in the end leave us defenseless against the flu, should it arise naturally.

Difficult question.

I do wonder about the alleged 50% mortality rate, though.  Note carefully the wording:

Quote
But the H5N1 strain is particularly vicious, killing roughly half of patients diagnosed with it.

How many people caught it, were not diagnosed, and recovered after only a normal bout of flu?  I'll never find the link now, but I remember an article a few years back where they tested people in one area for H5N1 antibodies, and this showed that a very large number had apparently been infected.  They were never diagnosed because they never became ill enough to seek medical attention.

Offline caverdude

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 10:39:48 PM »
The answer is down at the end of the article:

Difficult question.

I do wonder about the alleged 50% mortality rate, though.  Note carefully the wording:

How many people caught it, were not diagnosed, and recovered after only a normal bout of flu?  I'll never find the link now, but I remember an article a few years back where they tested people in one area for H5N1 antibodies, and this showed that a very large number had apparently been infected.  They were never diagnosed because they never became ill enough to seek medical attention.

great point

Offline georgec

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Man-made super-flu could kill half humanity
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 01:22:27 AM »
Scientists -- You gotta love them --

http://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/


Offline Morning Sunshine

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Offline Morning Sunshine

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Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 05:28:09 AM »
This is how mankind ends.  It may not be this strain, but I'm convinced that this type of thing is what will kill off mankind.

Quote
Now academics and bioterrorism experts are arguing over whether to publish the recipe, and whether the research should have been done in the first place.
This line of the article amazes me. 

"Hmmm, we have designed a super bug that could wipe out half the population on Earth, wonder if we should publish how to do it?"

There are cults and terrorists that are looking for exactly this sort of thing.  They have the money and the personnel to be able to make something like this.  Why would anyone think it is a good idea to put out a "how to" manual on doing this?

Scientists like this amaze me.  They are so tuned in to "can I do this" that they never ask "should I do this."

Offline M14fan

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 06:19:53 AM »
Given the level and intensity of human manipulation necessary to intentionaly  produce this strain, the answer indicating preparation for this mutation to occur naturally seems to me disingenuous at best.

Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 06:52:07 AM »
They did it and we cannot undo it. Possibly some good could come of this. Here is another scary part of the story.

"Many academics and biosecurity experts are naturally cautious about releasing information which could provide any bioterrorist with a ready recipe to hold the world to ransom. Some argue that such work should never have been done in the first place and call for international monitoring of potentially harmful research."


Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 08:18:19 AM »
That's the book about Ebola Reston, right?  It is scary, lucky for us, that strain wasn't harmful to humans.

I think that the thing that keeps us safe from Ebola is that it is caught in very remote locations and kills too fast.

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2011, 09:31:03 AM »
Richard Preston has a new book, fiction, "The Demon in the Freezer" about the potential threat of small pox getting into the hands of bio-terrorists.

Offline hillclimber

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2011, 09:44:52 AM »
I would imagine that the biggest reason the scientists want this stuff published is to stroke their own egos.
Frigging ego maniacal is what it is.

Offline ag2

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2011, 12:00:26 PM »
I cannot fathom what would possess an academic to DO such a thing, much less why he would want to publish it.

https://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/

Hopefully, the goal is to better understand it should we need to combat an outbreak released by an enemy or terrorist.

Offline Mielikki

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2011, 12:19:50 PM »
I have some scientific background and what I read in this article is "for Pete's, sake, start taking flu seriously! We have found out that all that is needed for really bad epidemic is some combination of strains in the nature, and we all know how easily it happens". In other words, they were not trying to make a bioweapon of any kind but to study how the flu could mutate. And after doing that, they found that the most alarming mutations were already in existence in wild. This means that humans have almost no way to prevent those strains coming together and start causing problems if die falls that way. I haven't yet read the article in full, but I intend to keep an eye on stuff like this.

Offline Doc K

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2011, 12:28:33 AM »
Unfortunately, this kind of mad-scientist research is not new.  About 7-8 yrs ago a researcher developed an HIV strain that was suposedly airborne.  Now we have some researcher making a more transmissible form of a deadly influenza???

The fact that we even have to ask "Why?" shows how far removed from common sense they are.  I cannot see how a University would even allow such research to be done in the first place.

As far as their explanation for why:
However the very same data, if made available to the scientific community, could potentially allow humanity to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic, which Fouchier’s study has shown to be far more probable than was previously believed. Clamping down on freedom of information in the scientific domain may in the end leave us defenseless against the flu, should it arise naturally.

This is completely bogus.  Not that I am the sole authority on such matters, but what could possibly be gained from creating this?  What information is so vital to the scientific community that is learned through creating something so dangerous which will enable "humanity to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic"?  A vaccine could most likely be created from the base H5N1 already in existence, since as the article stated that the new virus had only 5 new mutations.  Prevention for an airborne virus will stay the exact same - masks, hand washing, avoidance, perhaps isolation/quarantine.  No new preventive measures will be developed because we have a more deadly form of influenza.

The idea that they will make something so deadly to humanity in hopes that we will "beat mother nature to it" is a weak excuse for men pretending to be, and likely believing they are, gods.

Doc K



Offline Doc K

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2011, 12:35:33 AM »

I'll also add, as I have said many times before, for all the things which "survivalists" could be preparing that have large-scale, national, or international impact, the most viable threat is a pandemic disease.

If that large catastrophic hit comes from the hands of their fellow man, in a purposeful act, then most suvivalists will be even more justified in their preparations.

Doc K

Offline M14fan

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2011, 06:52:02 AM »
Thanks Doc for better articulating my very thoughts.

Offline AussieNana

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 08:16:05 PM »
I would imagine that the biggest reason the scientists want this stuff published is to stroke their own egos.
Frigging ego maniacal is what it is.

Not ego, its the system. If you don't do the research and get published you don't get funding and you don't get tenure. No ongoing funding, no career.

This is just part of a much bigger program relating to the flu. If they have a killer flu then everyone needs to be vaccinated against it annually and X billions of people needing an expensive vaccine gives billions of dollars to the pharmaceutical company, doctors and nurses. Its just business.

Already now they release the influenza virus into the community every year by way of vaccinating/giving nasal sprays with the live virus to poor unsuspecting people who also get side effects very similar to the flu they are trying to prevent.

In Australia advice was published in our medical journal which recommended every family have three weeks supply of food and water with alternative ways to cook should "social distancing" be encouraged/enforced and power and water go down because there was noone to service the supplies. lists of necessary supplies and quantities were given. Medical Journal of Australia, 2007:187(11/12);674-676. I just happened to have it on my desk.

I tried to buy N95 masks and surgical masks from Amazon and they wouldn't let them be sent to us.

Offline cheryl1

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2011, 10:29:38 AM »
I tried to buy N95 masks and surgical masks from Amazon and they wouldn't let them be sent to us.
Did they give a reason why?

Offline AussieNana

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2011, 11:53:53 PM »
No, just not allowed to be sent to Australia.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2011, 07:37:58 AM »
No, just not allowed to be sent to Australia.
Was it actually from Amazon?  Or from one of the many small businesses that sell through Amazon?  It could be that a small business doesn't want to have to deal with shipping internationally.  I would look for other masks on Amazon to see if it was just that particular one.

Offline Shaunypoo

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2011, 09:43:59 AM »
Scientists like this amaze me.  They are so tuned in to "can I do this" that they never ask "should I do this."

At no point in all of my schooling did any of my science classes ask the question of should it be done.  In the academic arena, it is always "what can we do now that we just finished what we just did?"  In pure academics, I am fine with this mentality, but unfortunately that naivete is easily taken advantage of.

I think that it was research into the flu mutation as well, and when you have one good breakthrough it can be real exciting.  Next thing you know, you have developed a superbug that can kill us all, but that sure as hell wasn't what they set out to do.  Rarely is the goal of the experiment what you end up doing, or science would get real boring real fast.  Then the justification for publishing is "why did I do all that work if I can't get the credit for it?" which IMO is also justifiable to a degree.  They spent time and resources and want to show their results.  This leads to other discoveries.  I don't want to string up this guy because he was doing a job he loves and just happened to have his nose pressed up to the picture instead of looking at the overall picture.

"Many academics and biosecurity experts are naturally cautious about releasing information which could provide any bioterrorist with a ready recipe to hold the world to ransom. Some argue that such work should never have been done in the first place and call for international monitoring of potentially harmful research."

Monitoring is one of the things that I see people on this website regularly rail against, so I can't think it would fly now.  If you limit what they can research, you stifle innovation and creativity, even if it happened to be misguided in this circumstance.  Tighter controls may be in order, but when do the controls stop?

I, too, believe that this is what will do us in and other than personal tragedy, this is what I gear my preps for.  Swine flu scared the crap out of me and even though it was unfounded at the time, at one point it won't be.



Offline ag2

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 11:05:05 PM »
I got the swine flu when it went around.  Tested positive for it.  Missed a week of work.  My fever reached 105.7.  I slept it off and took Ibuprofen.  I was just glad my young children or wife did not get it.  I stayed in the basement away from the rest of the family.

Offline Shaunypoo

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2011, 06:12:32 AM »
I got the swine flu when it went around.  Tested positive for it.  Missed a week of work.  My fever reached 105.7.  I slept it off and took Ibuprofen.  I was just glad my young children or wife did not get it.  I stayed in the basement away from the rest of the family.

I don't mean the flu itself, but the hype that surrounded it.  My area was not hit and I don't know anyone that I know got the swine flu.  My point is that when something does come around with the degree of virulence, whether man-made or not, that the swine flu claimed to have, next time it will be ignored as the government trying to force mass hysteria and will not be restrained to the degree that swine flu would have been had it been a more serious problem.  The flu in and of itself is a health issue that can and will kill, but I don't think it will take much tinkering from man for it to mutate enough to become more efficient in terms of spreading and body count. 

Offline Jihadjerry

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In the name of Science!
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2011, 06:02:01 PM »
They made a new strain of bird flu that will actually be lethal to humans (and just as contagious as normal flu.)

Quote
A deadly strain of bird flu with the potential to infect and kill millions of people has been created in a laboratory by European scientists – who now want to publish full details of how they did it.

The discovery has prompted fears within the US Government that the knowledge will fall into the hands of terrorists wanting to use it as a bio-weapon of mass destruction.

Some scientists are questioning whether the research should ever have been undertaken in a university laboratory, instead of at a military facility.

The US Government is now taking advice on whether the information is too dangerous to be published.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/alarm-as-dutch-lab-creates-highly-contagious-killer-flu-6279474.html

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/uw-bird-flu-research-causes-concern-v43fjm5-135778778.html

This research was done in the 'hopes' of creating better vaccines in the future. So if and when this killer virus escapes the lab or is somehow replicated by nefarious government(s), we'll know who to blame I suppose.

Offline jacaaronc

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2012, 07:58:53 AM »
I cannot fathom what would possess an academic to DO such a thing, much less why he would want to publish it.

https://rt.com/news/bird-flu-killer-strain-119/

So that when its released they can say its an accident.

Offline Shaunypoo

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 08:08:21 AM »
Maybe it truly is an accident.  Maybe a shadowy government organization orchestrated it.  Maybe we are just doing what nature is going to naturally do anyway, but just on an accelerated time frame. 

With how we abuse medicine as a species, we are going to cause the evolution of something that is super virulent that we cannot kill.  We are constantly at war with microorganisms, but we cannot win, because if we do, we will also cease to exist.

Offline jacaaronc

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Re: Manmade Super-flu!
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 11:43:02 AM »
With how we abuse medicine as a species, we are going to cause the evolution of something that is super virulent that we cannot kill.  We are constantly at war with microorganisms, but we cannot win, because if we do, we will also cease to exist.

Pure Truth...