Author Topic: DOG ATTACK  (Read 30823 times)

Offline Dangerous Dan

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 09:52:37 PM »
I have heard several podcasts an read several threads about why peroxide is bad for wound treatment on people. Why s that different for pets?

Offline gundog

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2011, 08:42:36 AM »
I don't know how to say this without sounding harsh.....but if you can't afford the proper vet care for your dog you should not have a dog. Period.

A dog covered in blood and a possible broken foot needs vet care. No animal deserves to be in pain and suffer......just to see if it gets better. Taking advice from the internet is dangerous, tylenol is very bad for your dog for example.......vets do not use peroxide for the same reasons people should not use it.

If a dog needs thousands of dollars of work it is always a hard decision and one that should be made with due diligence, the expected recovery, the age of the animal, the abililty to afford such a hit to the pocket book.

Do you take the dog to the vets for shots? Do you use heartworm preventative?

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2011, 08:55:25 AM »
How come no one messaged me!!!!

Reading back up again.... and will reply in a second.

Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2011, 09:27:21 AM »
Some time in the night my dog was attacked. We heard nothing so I assume he wandered down the road somewhere. Today he was laying in a bed of hay and could not get up. He rolled over when the grand boys and I went out at sunrise and he was covered in blood and could not rise. We got him up on the porch and I saw that the porch was covered in blood. He could not put his weight on his hind leg and had what looked like deep scrapes all over his body. Nothing that looked like bites at all.

His foot was very swollen.

My grand boys got busy and got cotton balls and antiseptic and cleaned all of his wounds. I got a tylenol and wrapped it in cheese and we gave him food and water close.

I was proud of the boys. But it made me realize I am really unprepared for for animal emergencies.

Ok.. without seeing the dog, I can only go by what you are saying and not verifying it with my own eyes. I will not even try to speculate what happened to him.

How much does the dog weigh. Don't just give an animal HUMAN drugs without consulting a Compentium. Depending on the breed and weight, you could have done more damage than good. Acetaminophen (Tylenol) and Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin IB) are toxic to both cats and dogs, even in small doses.  Many medications can be highly toxic to cats, including Pepto Bismol, Kaopectate and aspirin.

#1. Take his temperature rectally for 2 minutes. A low temp could indicate hypothermia, shock,  internal damage and/or bleeding out.  A normal dogs temp is 100-102F. If it is higher than this, there is an infection somewhere more than likely. Lower temp is hypothermia and you will need to judge if you need to warm him up. If you do, do so slowly and NOT with a heating pad on high. IF you use a heating pad, use it on LOW with lots of towels between him and the pad. Be careful of dogs that might chew the pad.

#2 Access the situation and WRITE everything on paper, including time, date and observations, including temp, heart rate  and respiratory rate. Don't rely on your memory. This will tell you from an hour from now, to 3 days from now if there is an improvement or a decline. Get a watch with a second hand on it and put your hand over his ribs and feel the breaths for 15 seconds and times by 4. Under the left armpit area you should be able to feel his heartbeat, or if you play a bit, you can get his femeral artery in the back leg. Count for 15 secs and then times by 4. WRITE IT DOWN! (I am not telling you the rates as it will depend on the size of animal. Just see if his is changing his 'norm').

#3 Clip all the hair away from wounds, scrapes. It will heal faster and depending on his coat, will reveal the real damage done. It is amazing when the hair is gone what you actually see from the brusing, holes you didnt realize were there and such. Just clean with with soap and water. NEVER use alcohol and try not to use iodine. Keep povadine or betadine on hand and dilute it to tea colour for cleansing wounds.

#4 If there was internal bleeding such as with a hit-by-car or even an animal attack. Giving aspirin thins the blood. Not always a wise idea to give.

#5 Pain meds. In a 'bush' situation like this, I want to keep them in pain. Sounds cruel? Yes and no. I want them to stay hurting so they stay still. If you mask the pain, they start to run around and do themselves more injury.

#6 Swelling on the leg? Put a thinner towel on it and pack it with ice. Reduce the swelling by chilling it, but make sure the ice doesn't come into contact with the skin or you can damage the tissue. It still could be broken without showing any bones. 9 time out of 10 a break is not a compound fracture (where it sticks out of the skin). That is why we use Xrays. At this point, my guess (since I cannot see the dog) is that is is broken. Make sure it is not higher up and it is a dislocation. Happens often with a hit-by-car.

#7 Keep him still. (Refer to #5)

OK.. all the scrapes and such. Shave the hair down to the skin. I want to be able to see what is under it. Or it is like looking at your patient through a heavy sweater, you are only getting half the story. Road rash? Swipe something over it like the Betadine. I am looking for puncture type wounds... something which will scab over and create an abscess in 2-3 weeks time.

IF you do give Aspirin.. (which I would do in a day or so), it can be given short term to dogs (never cats!) to help relieve inflammation and pain.  Buffered Aspirin (Bufferin or Ascriptin) is easier on the stomach but regular (non-coated) aspirin can also be used.  Aspirin may be given once or twice a day.  Always give aspirin with food. Aspirin has potent blood thinning properties, and continued usage may be dangerous in some animals.

Aspirin Dosage
Once or twice a day, with food
Dogs
Less than 10 lbs ½ baby aspirin     
10-30 lbs              1 baby aspirin
30-50 lbs              ½ regular aspirin
50-100 lbs      1 regular aspirin
over 100 lbs       2 regular aspirin

Worst case scenario- internal bleeding. But it has been a few days. So I would still be icing his leg if there is swelling or cold hosing it, but by now giving him some aspirin. Unless there was serious gashes or punctures I would probably NOT give antibiotics if you did not have them. I have antibiotics at home and it would be 50/50 if I even gave him any. Could cause different issues. Remember, it kills off all bacterias.. good and bad. You need the good ones to heal and live.

Second worse scenario - blood supply compromised to the leg/foot. This will result in tissue die-off.

Next scenario - dog loses the ability to use foot and leg becomes useless and atrophies due to lack of use.

CONTINUE to keep the dog still. Make sure he can get to food and water ok. I would be more concerned about water intake. Toss a bit of beef boullion into the water to get him to drink more. You may have to sling a towel under his hindquarters to take him outside to the bathroom to help get the weight on his back end. His other leg could be compromised too.

You may want to attempt to massage the leg a bit. DESIST if it is hurting him. Blood circulation is good though.

Tell me an update here....

Cedar
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 10:10:34 AM by Cedar »

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2011, 09:30:16 AM »
I read a book a few months ago on first aid for dogs and decided to not only practice the techniques the book entailed but also make a first aid kit specifically for my dogs. I love my dogs like many of you and I want to be prepared for their well being. attached is my K-9 FAK roll up. Book was $7 brand new so it is worth every penny, the items are common first aid kit stuff just a few specialty items that are not that expensive, pick it up, make a K9 kit, love your dogs.

luckily I have not had to use it for trauma but I have had a few bouts with upset stomach and an interesting episode with a cactus.



Looks good. I would add in Vet wrap 2 and 4 ". I would also add in 6" cotton roll and a newspaper TIGHTLY rolled and duct taped for a splint. ALSO ALWAYS add in 2" roll kling gauze as ALWAYS, ALWAYS muzzle your dog if it is injured as in pain it may bite at you and you do not want TWO injured beings.

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2011, 09:34:22 AM »
Bag Balm, horse lenament , and bovin antibiotics.

Yes on the bag balm (later, not initially, it will trap in bacteria due to the base), OMG no and absolutely no on the bovine antibiotics (kinda sorta)...

All those scrapes and horse liniment on them? HOLY MOSES!!!! He will feel like he has gone to the eternal fires of HADES!

Cedar


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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2011, 09:36:42 AM »
I have to laugh at him. As I type, the dog about 1/4 mile down the road just barked and Buddy hauled himself out of his bed, down the porch steps and out on the driveway to bark severely back at him. Silly Dog. I think he will be fine. Just needs to rest

Keep him still for 2 weeks and hand walk him when he goes outside. Some dogs are wimps.. some are stoaiac and some are just plain stupid when they see a cat or hear another dog and hurt themselves again. KEEP HIM STILL!

Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2011, 09:41:21 AM »
Almost all "livestock" otc meds have a weight guide on the label easy to figure out the proper dose IF you know the animals weight..I do all of my own shots except rabies(only because I can't buy it)  a vial of penicillin for livestock is only about 9/12$ my dogs are LGDs they don't get hurt often but when they do lord knows what bit them! 

Not all breeds are created the same. Some breeds cannot have certain medications or anethetics. For instance Collies suffer acute and often fatal neurotoxicosis when certain drugs are given such as the 'safe' Heartguard once-a-month tablet. West Highland terriers cannot have certain anethetics. Sight Hounds are notorious for being scary in surgery for us techs.

Just like some people can have allergic reactions to drugs like antibiotics, so can pets/animals.

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2011, 09:42:43 AM »
I have heard several podcasts an read several threads about why peroxide is bad for wound treatment on people. Why s that different for pets?

It isn't ...

Cedar

Offline FromScratchWoman

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2011, 09:51:47 AM »
I don't know how to say this without sounding harsh.....but if you can't afford the proper vet care for your dog you should not have a dog. Period.

Do you take the dog to the vets for shots? Do you use heartworm preventative?
I'm sorry I understand where your reasoning comes from..but do you have 5k set aside for a vet emergency? Guess what I don't take my dogs to the vet for shots(besides rabies) I do all of my own shots..I also don't treat for heart worm..ya know why..because I don't live in an area that is at risk for it.. growing up on a large ranch if we took every Pyr or mutt to the vet we woulda lost the farm to the vet.. a lot of the same things that a vet will do can be done at home for much cheaper if you have done your research and have had the foresight to have a shtf pack for your dogs.. I have had the good fortune of growing up helping tend to injured livestock so know my way around a wound..you could volunteer at a good shelter to get some hands on experience..

A few years back  driving into town on my way back backroads I saw a rig throw out a garbage bag I stopped to pick up their trash..the bag was moving frantically..so I went to let the "probably cats" out of the double bagged death trap..out came a toto looking wire hair mutt..we now call her Mac she had quills all over her we took off over 300+ ticks from her and fleas made her skin look black..she had a large gash on her side..and most of he wounds were festering..I cut(to release gas) quills and pulled them out cleaned the wounds deeply(with warm water mixed with salt,tee tree,and raw honey) then once dried applied blue coat stuck her with penicillin,packed and wrapped her gash..gave her all of her shots de wormed her with DE fed her puppy food mixed with raw eggs and garlic(garlic is a wormer) and within a short week we had an active happy little mac..who also to our suprise was pregnant when we found her..she's in my lap now..all of that treatment including food less than 100$ if we would taken her to the vet no less than 1k easy in bills..not including gas $

I don't mean to offend or come off as more of a  :censored: than I actually am.. but I can't afford name brand insurance for my children so they basically have none..guess I shouldn't have them...seem over the top..not really its the same mind set as "if you can't afford proper vet care for you dog you should not have a dog .Period."

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2011, 09:53:57 AM »
I don't know how to say this without sounding harsh.....but if you can't afford the proper vet care for your dog you should not have a dog. Period.

Some people had a pet before they came to be in a reduced income family due to the economy. Should they get rid of the pet due to financial hardship? Some have and that is why horses are being turned loose in the woods and shelters have been more packed than usual with cats and dog for the last 3 years with higher than average kills. Shelters will not often take other types of animals now.

A dog covered in blood and a possible broken foot needs vet care.

Yes it does. The reason I wrote advice however was so that the dog would get care since it was not able to go to a vet

Do you take the dog to the vets for shots? Do you use heartworm preventative?

Not all dogs need to go to the vet for vaccines. It depends on the location and what risk the pet is at. Does it mix it up with other dogs alot? Go to the dog park? Run at large (which this one did at least once? Is it a couch potato? Does it live miles away from other dogs? Is it an older dog who had its puppy shots and a few yearly boosters?

The last vet I worked for stated that a dog who is a couch potato, not stressed and never sees other dogs may have a high titer and may only need a vaccine every 3-5 years after the initial vaccines are done. Some people had blood tests on their animals to see what the titer levels are.

I do my own vaccines at home. I buy them from the vet or the farm store depending on where I am living. I was a vet tech for 22 years and know what I am doing for vaccines. So I choose to do them myself. Other people do need to take their animals in for a checkup and vaccines from time to time who do not have a veterinary/animal background to do preventative things to their pets as well. Vet tech or vet - "Oh.. how long has this growth been on Bowzer?" ....Owner - "Growth? What growth?"

Some animals live outside heartworm issue range and do not require heartworm meds. So some meds are seasonal or not needed... some are needed year round depending on where your pet lives and if it travels alot.

My two cats are house cats. After their initial kitten vaccines and yearly booster, until I brought them down to the states, I never vaccinated them and it is unlikely they will get vaccinated at all again. Being that they are indoor only cats and I no longer work for vet, they are not at a risk for contracting anything that a FeLV or Feline Rhinotracheitis Calici and Panleukopenia vaccine vaccinates against.

Cedar
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 09:59:49 AM by Cedar »

Offline FromScratchWoman

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2011, 10:01:57 AM »
Not all breeds are created the same. Some breeds cannot have certain medications or anethetics. For instance Collies suffer acute and often fatal neurotoxicosis when certain drugs are given such as the 'safe' Heartguard once-a-month tablet. West Highland terriers cannot have certain anethetics. Sight Hounds are notorious for being scary in surgery for us techs.

Just like some people can have allergic reactions to drugs like antibiotics, so can pets/animals.

Cedar
well she can't get anethetics otc, but I do understand  animals can have allergic reactions to medicine like humans.. I was mainly thinking of (and think I said in a dif post here) about penicillin..which would be better than nothing..most of the time the person in control of the otc injected meds will let you know what is "generally safe" to use with dogs..but then again being in a small ranching community I'm sure that's not the case everywhere...

Offline FromScratchWoman

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2011, 10:20:26 AM »
Some people had a pet before they came to be in a reduced income family due to the economy. Should they get rid of the pet due to financial hardship? Some have and that is why horses are being turned loose in the woods and shelters have been more packed than usual with cats and dog for the last 3 years with higher than average kills. Shelters will not often take other types of animals now.

Cedar
this is a serious issue in my area especially with horses..some are young enough to adapt and be allowed in with the wild mustangs in our area..but weekly we drive by the wild herds to look for "un accepted" stragglers..who will come to us with the average chatter call..DH then goes up the ridge and calls a local ranch that takes them in..we have found more than a few dead..usually due to a single shot..three days ago we rescued two Pyrenees and have found new homes..the owners were going to put them down because they couldn't afford them anymore..they're now adjusting to a goat farm..

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2011, 10:26:18 AM »
this is a serious issue in my area especially with horses..some are young enough to adapt and be allowed in with the wild mustangs in our area..but weekly we drive by the wild herds to look for "un accepted" stragglers..

And in thinking that these horses will survive in the wild, the truth is that many could kill off horses in the wild herds due to disease/parasites that the feral herds have not had to deal with much if at all. Like domestic sheep brought disease and death to many of the Bighorns herds. The Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (WAFWA) recommends a 9-mile separation between bighorn and domestic sheep to prevent the transmission of deadly domestic sheep diseases.

Cedar


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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2011, 11:14:47 AM »
And in thinking that these horses will survive in the wild, the truth is that many could kill off horses in the wild herds due to disease/parasites that the feral herds have not had to deal with much if at all. Like domestic sheep brought disease and death to many of the Bighorns herds. The Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (WAFWA) recommends a 9-mile separation between bighorn and domestic sheep to prevent the transmission of deadly domestic sheep diseases.

Cedar
Very true indeed..but currently they're more at risk of being rounded up and slaughtered "to reduce over feeding" on alfalfa..the tribe is fighting it trying to get the county to up the allowed kill # per tag on deer and such..most have come to my neck of the woods as the tribe will not allow horses to be hunted..I more often almost hit a horse than a buck.. an interesting thing about this area is that most that are being turned loose were caught wild to begin with..

Offline gundog

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2011, 11:38:47 AM »
I'm sorry I understand where your reasoning comes from..but do you have 5k set aside for a vet emergency? Guess what I don't take my dogs to the vet for shots(besides rabies) I do all of my own shots..I also don't treat for heart worm..ya know why..because I don't live in an area that is at risk for it.. growing up on a large ranch if we took every Pyr or mutt to the vet we woulda lost the farm to the vet.. a lot of the same things that a vet will do can be done at home for much cheaper if you have done your research and have had the foresight to have a shtf pack for your dogs.. I have had the good fortune of growing up helping tend to injured livestock so know my way around a wound..you could volunteer at a good shelter to get some hands on experience..

A few years back  driving into town on my way back backroads I saw a rig throw out a garbage bag I stopped to pick up their trash..the bag was moving frantically..so I went to let the "probably cats" out of the double bagged death trap..out came a toto looking wire hair mutt..we now call her Mac she had quills all over her we took off over 300+ ticks from her and fleas made her skin look black..she had a large gash on her side..and most of he wounds were festering..I cut(to release gas) quills and pulled them out cleaned the wounds deeply(with warm water mixed with salt,tee tree,and raw honey) then once dried applied blue coat stuck her with penicillin,packed and wrapped her gash..gave her all of her shots de wormed her with DE fed her puppy food mixed with raw eggs and garlic(garlic is a wormer) and within a short week we had an active happy little mac..who also to our suprise was pregnant when we found her..she's in my lap now..all of that treatment including food less than 100$ if we would taken her to the vet no less than 1k easy in bills..not including gas $

I don't mean to offend or come off as more of a  :censored: than I actually am.. but I can't afford name brand insurance for my children so they basically have none..guess I shouldn't have them...seem over the top..not really its the same mind set as "if you can't afford proper vet care for you dog you should not have a dog .Period."

Like my post said.....a bill in the thousands would be the time to really decide if it was something you could do. A trip to the vet to get the dog some antibiotics and a quick look over will not cost thousands of dollars.

I think drawing a connection between your animals and children is silly......it is a comparison I never made.

I do not want to come off as a dick either....I imagine in person we would probably like each other and have a lot in common. But the thought of your dog "covered in blood with a possible broken foot" laying there ....well I just don't like it, we owe our animals more than that.

....Lest you think i am an animal right weenie, I am not. I grew up on and around the farm, I have seen many dead animals there and helped make many of them that way, My wife has been a vet tech, my SIL is a vet who I accompy doing some of her large animal appts, I self adminster my dogs shots and manage their healthcare. I hunt my dogs hard and they sometimes get hurt doing it, I shoot, butcher and eat several deer a year along with 16 chickens, 30 or so grouse, a bunch of ducks, once a moose and usually a pig. I understand the farmer mentality and I have struggled with money on and off in my life, I get that there is not a lot of money. I just thinik for a nominal fees you could have done a better job helping this dog get better.

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2011, 01:22:53 PM »
Like my post said.....a bill in the thousands would be the time to really decide if it was something you could do. so if you don't have the ability to put out a few thousand dollars you should not own a dog, this may not have been what you meant but it's how it came across to me. A trip to the vet to get the dog some antibiotics and a quick look over will not cost thousands of dollars. it could easily climb to that range antibiotics probably close to hundred dollars depending on type needed and size of dog, the visit itself another $80 gas money $40 if dog has a broken leg $500 for the x-rays and the initial casting few hundred more dollars for check up to see how it's healing so on and so forth to put the dog down depending on size could cost between $80 to 150$, and that's not always the most humane thing some would debate.

I think drawing a connection between your animals and children is silly......it is a comparison I never made. but it kind of is considering our children are priceless compared to the family dog, you stated if you could not afford proper vet care for your dog you shouldn't own one at all, so since our children are the most important things in our lives we probably shouldn't have any unless we can afford to drop a few thousand dollars on an out of nowhere medical expense. I know you didn't state this but it's the impression that I gathered from the way you stated things.

I do not want to come off as a dick either....well you did just a little bit when you questioned if she even brought her dog to the vet for shots, she obviously cares for the animal and did what she thought was best to help him within her financial ability, she could have had someone put a bullet in his head instead she chose to try and heal himI imagine in person we would probably like each other and have a lot in common. I'm sure at the very least we could have some heated debates which are always fun ;D But the thought of your dog "covered in blood with a possible broken foot" laying there ....well I just don't like it, we owe our animals more than that.just don't forget to picture the caring woman next to him trying her best to help the dog

....Lest you think i am an animal right weenie, I am not. I grew up on and around the farm, I have seen many dead animals there and helped make many of them that way, My wife has been a vet tech, my SIL is a vet who I accompy doing some of her large animal appts, I self adminster my dogs shots and manage their healthcare. I hunt my dogs hard and they sometimes get hurt doing it, I shoot, butcher and eat several deer a year along with 16 chickens, 30 or so grouse, a bunch of ducks, once a moose and usually a pig. I understand the farmer mentality and I have struggled with money on and off in my life, I get that there is not a lot of money. I just thinik for a nominal fees you could have done a better job helping this dog get better.

what is nominal to you may be the difference in someone's current situation of keeping a roof over the family's head, I think she did a good job just by coming here and asking for advice, I don't picture the dog is laying somewhere rotting to death. I don't think your an animal rights wingnut, and I'm sure we could compare numbers of animals slaughtered all day long, I work with livestock guardian dogs they work hard on their own and when they get hurt it's usually from going toe to toe with coyotes, bears, cougar and the like. The only time I have had to take one of my Pyrenees in was when he suffered a bite that bled into his ear and cause a deep inner ear infection, but the deep puncture wound I healed notably fine on my own according to the vet. I think as people who are striving to be prepared in any situation it is important to do a bit of research and learn to heal wounds animals or humans alike on our own, I had healed chickens that have been ravaged badly by dogs, and I have tried to heal chickens that died from their illness/wounds. Of course it's easier subconsciously and emotionally to hone your skills on something you haven't named. End rant, and no hard feelings :) just good and strong opinions!

« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 01:47:43 PM by FromScratchWoman »

Offline gundog

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2011, 03:20:42 PM »


You put a lot of words in my mouth that I did not say.....in fact what I did say you misrepresented........IE that if you don't have thousands to spend you shouldnt have a dog is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I said.

As far as the vet fees go.....I still say you should be able to have the dog checked out and anti-biotics for far less than the $600.00 (or whatever it added up to) you suggest it would cost. Substantially less.


None of this is to say people should not learn what they can........but it is obvious from the wrong advice given here just on medications that you should choose wisely when you try go find that information. I find that conversations about health care.....people and animals on the internet is good......good because it usually gives you the questions you should ask your health care proffesional and allows you to not go in cold. They just should not be believed without verification. A simple vet book like the dog owners home vet book. At least the info can be relatively trustworthy.
I like this one.


BTW I do not believe the comparison to children......animals are animals and people are people. But if you do that is your decision.....shrugs.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2011, 04:43:05 PM »
It isn't ...

Cedar

Care to explain why? I understand that anything over 8-10% is bad for wounds, but most store bought hydrogen peroxide is 3%, and is an effective cleaning agent.  The only downside is that you may be a TINY bit more likely to get scarring in the effected area.  I know it is not an antiseptic or disinfectant, but it is good for cleaning as long as you don't mind the SLIGHTLY increased chance of scarring.

I'm sure you guys are right, and I am wrong, but as long as you are using it to clean, and something else to disinfect, hydrogen peroxide (store bought 3-6% concentration) shouldn't be bad. 

I keep a people hydrogen peroxide bottle and a dog hydrogen peroxide bottle.  The people bottle, I keep at its purchased concentration, and the dog bottle I dilute down to 1-1.5% concentration.  I rarely have to use it, but when I do, my process is to rinse the affected area with water, rinse it with the 1% peroxide, rinse it with water again, then use an antiseptic (usually bactine).  Then if it is possible, I like to let it air out.  If it is not possible (cracked pads or something like that) I like to keep it covered for an hour or so.

I'm pretty sure I'm not harming my dog with that method, and the vet seems to think we are taking great care of her.

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2011, 05:12:01 PM »
Care to explain why?

I do keep Hydrogen Peroxide on hand, but it is to induce vomiting.

People like it as it looks like it does something 'fantastic' for medical use due to the fizzing and frothing. Ever put it on your skin and the skin turns white? Try it on your fingertips. It bleaches them out from the hydrogen peroxide being absorbed by skin upon contact and causing a skin capillary embolism. Research is showing that hydrogen peroxide is not so great as a disinfectant because it reduces the renewal of healthy new skin cells. It has even shown to damage skin permanently.

I like and use Betadine/Povidone as I used it in surgery, as well as for lacerations etc for 20 years. It doesn't do any cool fizzing like hydrogen peroxide does, but I know it works well and have seen little reactions with it (unlike some other surgical scrubs like Chorhexidine).

But in all honesty, if you have nothing else, use warm water and they liquid hand soap which is unscented if nothing else for a SURFACE scrape (not in a laceration or puncture).

Cedar

Offline FromScratchWoman

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2011, 05:26:03 PM »
You put a lot of words in my mouth that I did not say.....in fact what I did say you misrepresented........IE that if you don't have thousands to spend you shouldnt have a dog is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I said..this may not have been what you meant but it's how it came across to me
I know you didn't state this but it's the impression that I gathered from the way you stated things.
^ words in your mouth? Sorry if you felt this way but I specifically said ^
As far as the vet fees go.....I still say you should be able to have the dog checked out and anti-biotics for far less than the $600.00 (or whatever it added up to) you suggest it would cost. Substantially less. you missed my point no antibiotics for a couple cuts would not cost that much but a broken foot or x-rays to find out you would easily hit the 600 marks, just to have my dogs hips and elbows x-rayed for OFA certification costs close to $400


None of this is to say people should not learn what they can........but it is obvious from the wrong advice given here just on medications that you should choose wisely when you try go find that information. I find that conversations about health care.....people and animals on the internet is good......good because it usually gives you the questions you should ask your health care proffesional and allows you to not go in cold. They just should not be believed without verification. A simple vet book like the dog owners home vet book. At least the info can be relatively trustworthy.
I like this one.


BTW I do not believe the comparison to children......animals are animals and people are people. But if you do that is your decision.....shrugs. it wasn't about comparing animals to humans it was the mindset of the statement if you can't afford proper vet care .... You know the rest... We'll just have to agree to disagree as I'm sure we could go out this forever!

Offline FromScratchWoman

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2011, 05:29:57 PM »
I do keep Hydrogen Peroxide on hand, but it is to induce vomiting.

 

Cedar
basically the only thing I use it for is to perk up my indoor plants either with a watering or misting the leaves but always diluted with water.

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2011, 05:34:38 PM »
Ever put it on your skin and the skin turns white? Try it on your fingertips. It bleaches them out from the hydrogen peroxide being absorbed by skin upon contact

In chemistry class I have with 25% concentration, but not in any of the concentrations I have used (1-3%).  Also, I've never used it as a disinfectant, just rinse, peroxide, rinse, disinfectant/antiseptic (bactine).  I don't use it just because it is bubbly, although when I was a kid, they said to keep applying peroxide until it doesn't bubble anymore, then you know its clean.  It also kills all the new skin cells and good bacteria as well.

How is isopropyl alcohol vs betadine/povidone or other antiseptics?  It seems to be a lot cheaper, and I know it has a long shelf life.

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2011, 05:50:06 PM »
Alcohol? May as well just pour gasoline on the wound. Alcohol and gasoline both will kill the germs, but it's not great for your skin cells, as it's very caustic and will literally burn & dehydrate the flesh. Alcohol also will prevent the wound/s to heal as fast as other substances such as the Betadine. Yes, I will nag about iodine as well.. even though Betadine does have iodine in it.

Cedar

Offline ttubravesrock

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2011, 06:28:28 PM »
As much as people on here are agreeing and disagreeing, it is important to look at it as if SHTF has already happened.  Then what would you do?  There may not be a vet accessible to you.  Even if you take your dog to the vet every time you step on its tail or toes, it is good to know that when SHTF you can do something for your pet to help.  Likewise for the children or elderly in your family.

Personally, I have not been to the doctor for myself since I was a baby.  I have had a few physicals in order to play sports, but I have never been for an ailment.  Granted, I have never had something catastrophic happen to me, but you get the point.  If I get the sniffles I don't go to the doctor and get a prescription for the strongest decongestant on the market, I just let the sniffles run their course and my body does the healing for me.  If I get a headache, I don't get out the vicodin, I just drink lots of water and take it easy for a little bit, and viola! the headache is gone.  I don't want to sound like I'm bragging about how macho I am, I'm just stating a couple examples.

My wife spends much more time at the doctor than I do, and I want to make sure that when SHTF, I can do something to help her if we are unable to reach a doctor.  Same with my dog, and any future kids I may have. 

Offline gundog

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2011, 06:38:34 PM »
Alcohol? May as well just pour gasoline on the wound. Alcohol and gasoline both will kill the germs, but it's not great for your skin cells, as it's very caustic and will literally burn & dehydrate the flesh. Alcohol also will prevent the wound/s to heal as fast as other substances such as the Betadine. Yes, I will nag about iodine as well.. even though Betadine does have iodine in it.

Cedar

For flushing wounds I use saline. A large bottle in the truck first aid and when in the field with the dogs working I carry a smaller one in my pack. It also helps if you need to flush their eyes.....of course they don't usually enjoy that. :)

Offline Cedar

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2011, 06:41:22 PM »
For flushing wounds I use saline. A large bottle in the truck first aid and when in the field with the dogs working I carry a smaller one in my pack. It also helps if you need to flush their eyes.....of course they don't usually enjoy that. :)

YES! I love saline. I usually have a couple 500 ml's and a couple 1000's that have expired from the clinic on hand just for flushing eyes and wounds. And yeah.. they are not usually too appreciative of your care and attention LOL

Cedar

Offline Sweethearts Mom

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2011, 07:09:07 PM »
So sorry to hear about your dog.   

About 6 weeks ago my bloodhound with lost half her ear because of the neighbors dog.  We took her to the emergency vet in Lewisville/Flower Mound, it cost me about 200 for them to put on neosporin, gauze, and wide self sticking wrap, like you would a sprain.  An anti-inflamatory,  the same one the vets give after neutering and antibiotics.   I almost put peroxide or iodine on it,  the vet said with injuries where there is torn cartilage it was best not to use H2O2 or the iodine because it could start the bleeding all over again.   Only use for cleaning on fleshy parts.  I did not know that.

Also, I got a type of liquid bandage, from KV equine, it helped some. 

Have you tried just icing it to get the swelling down? 


Kathy

No I didn't because I was prepping to go out of town. The welling was starting to go down by the time I left. I had my daughter give him buffered asprin while I was gone. I got home tonight and he looks much better. Still holding his back leg up but he is not acting stiff and sore as badly as before. Thank you for all of the info. After Christmas is past I am making a animal first aid cabinet that will include all of the animals...pets and livestock.

Offline Sweethearts Mom

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2011, 07:14:14 PM »
I don't know how to say this without sounding harsh.....but if you can't afford the proper vet care for your dog you should not have a dog. Period.

A dog covered in blood and a possible broken foot needs vet care. No animal deserves to be in pain and suffer......just to see if it gets better. Taking advice from the internet is dangerous, tylenol is very bad for your dog for example.......vets do not use peroxide for the same reasons people should not use it.

If a dog needs thousands of dollars of work it is always a hard decision and one that should be made with due diligence, the expected recovery, the age of the animal, the abililty to afford such a hit to the pocket book.

Do you take the dog to the vets for shots? Do you use heartworm preventative?

sorry man my dogs are not pets. They are farm dogs. They work for a living just like me. I will have them to protect my farm even though I "won't" spend the money on a vet.

Please understand that this is not just a financial choice. This is a choice due to the experiences I have had from my local vets from Plano to Wylie, to Rowlett, to Murphy, to Garland to Van Alstyne to Rockwall....so a large N TX area....I haven't met one any more that is not driven by greed. This is simply because the old logic trained vets are retiring. The ones in the business now are mostly dealing with pets. And people with more money than brains and more than willing to spend thousands of dollars on a pet.

You are welcome to your opinion but even if money was not an issue, I would not take my farm dog to any vet who has proven themselves to be driven by greed instead of common sense.

Offline gundog

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Re: DOG ATTACK
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2011, 07:17:56 PM »
I read a book a few months ago on first aid for dogs and decided to not only practice the techniques the book entailed but also make a first aid kit specifically for my dogs. I love my dogs like many of you and I want to be prepared for their well being. attached is my K-9 FAK roll up. Book was $7 brand new so it is worth every penny, the items are common first aid kit stuff just a few specialty items that are not that expensive, pick it up, make a K9 kit, love your dogs.

luckily I have not had to use it for trauma but I have had a few bouts with upset stomach and an interesting episode with a cactus.



I think you have a good start there. Here is a partial list of mine. Off the top of my head.

Thermometer
Tweezers
Multi-tool/Needle Nosed Pliers (think porky quills)
Latex Gloves
Duct Tape
Flashlight
Saline Solution
Maxipads
Fence Cutters
Vet Wrap lots
Gauze lots
Splint making material
Hemostats different sizes
Dog Booties  The cheap ones to put over a bandaged paw
Clippers
Cold Compresses
Nail clippers
Scalpel and handle
wet naps and hand sanitizer
EMT Gel
Benedryl
Dog Aspirin
NutriCal
Bandage Scissors
Peroxide
Maxi pads (if you have large animals some small diapers as well) poor mans israli bandage

This is a note printed off and in my bag.......
VITAL SIGNS AND MEDICATION DOSAGES

Normal dog body temperature at rest in *F.  101.0 to 103.0 *F
Normal dog body temperature after working in *F. (You Fill In For Your Dog)
Normal heart rate at rest. 80 to 120 beats per minute
Normal heart rate after working. (You Fill In For Your Dog)
Normal respirations at rest. 20 to 40 breaths per minute
Normal respirations after working. (You Fill In For Your Dog)
Benydryl liquid per 10-pounds of body weight. 5 cc per 10 lbs of body weight, 3 to 4 x a day.
Benydryl tablet per 10-pounds of body weight. 10 mg to 20 mg per 10 lbs of body weight, 3 to 4 x a day.
Imodium per 10 lbs of weight. 50 to 95 lbs give ½ of a 2 mg tablet; do not exceed 4 x a day.
Aspirin per 10 lbs of body weight. 5 mg to 15 mg per 10 lb of body weight, 2 x a day.
3% hydrogen peroxide, to induce vomiting. 5 ml per 10 lbs of body weight, repeat once if no vomiting after 15 minutes.


Also when I am hunting in a different state I go online and print off a list of vets nearby in case there is an emergency I can't handle and can't wait until we get home.

The full kit is in the truck when we're on the road. In my pack is a much smaller kit....about the size of a sandwich bag, with emt gel, gause, vet wrap, multi-tool(small) and some benedryl.......enough to get me back to the truck hopefully.