Author Topic: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)  (Read 6895 times)

Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 12:07:30 AM »
You might become broke, though.  A PVS 24 can tag out between $7,000 and $9,000 depending on where you buy it.

This is exactly what I have been considering, and yes, I know what they cost  :'(
That's a lot of ammo eh?
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Offline TexasGirl

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2012, 12:21:35 AM »
This is exactly what I have been considering, and yes, I know what they cost  :'(
That's a lot of ammo eh?

It's a lot of most anything, and certainly outside this girl's budget!  Think of all the kitchen accessories that could buy!!

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Offline cohutt

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2012, 06:19:03 AM »
Got a quick question about the .45 can - have you ever tossed a patch of light masking tape over the muzzle and checked to see if it was quieter on the first shot? Not sure what it would do to accuracy, but it's just one of those things i've never had a chance to try. The point is it'd seal the can until the bullet left, which allows the can to work better, but I'm not sure by how much.

The thermodynamics is definitely there, but if it's only .01% reduction in sound pressure, it's likely not worth the trouble - .45's are just a mighty big hole through the middle of all those baffles ;)

Never tried/ I prefer avoiding covering the muzzle of any of my guns in any way -

I have wetted the can slightly for first shot dampening using electrical conduit lube- the water soluble gel.  It seems to help a little but not enough to matter when the massive bolt is clanking like sledge hammer. It also can make for gumming up things if over done, the back pressure from the can + blowback action = lots of captured soot in action

Offline cohutt

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2012, 06:45:02 AM »

Have a few rounds  ;) and always working on more.

First, NICE HOG.  I'm actually thinking about going with an inline (in front of my primary scope) NV scope to pair with my ACOG and Tactical 6x24.  NVG or something that can mount on a helmet would be nice to get out of dodge with, but I'm thinking more defensive tactics and/or spot and stock.  And I want to be able to use it with my long range scope. . . .  Any recommendations for this?

I'm not broke, but I'm not rich either.

Thanks for all the help guys.

I haven't worked out a system for my pvs14/day scope combo yet, at least to my satisfaction.   
I initially wanted to put it on a burris 2-7x mounted on a 77/44 b/a ruger.   However, the eye relief of the burris is funny with this- I wanted to have it on the 7x because that's what the reticle is calculated for as far as bullet drop, but it aligns better in the middle of the magnification range.  The issue is compounded by the rotation of the eye piece in changing magnification, as the mount I have is attached to the eyepiece of the day scope and therefore the whole pvs rotates too.
I've only tinkered a little and it might be fixable, but my initial impression is a fixed power scope of 4x to 9x might be much easier to setup. 

I purchased the IR illuminator to compensate for the drop in visibility through either scope (the day scope or the EOT552 in the nv setting.)  It is a terrific addition even when there is sufficient ambient light to see fairly well.  It lights up the target area like a searchlight and varmint eyes shine back like beacons even more so.   
This purchase decision came after the new moon/wilderness/rainstorm scenario I referenced above.   I could see the hog's profile pretty well but the contrast/depth perception was greatly reduced under those conditions (with PVS behind EOT552).  I've gone back out in similar conditions since then with the IR available and it makes a huge difference, although that evening nothing crossed my path.



As far as " tactical", the "skullcrusher" head harness set up to mount the PVS over one eye works "OK" but it lives up to its reputation as a brain squeezer.  In order to get a halfway stable mounting it has to be tightened down pretty well.  Add to the formula my giant sized head and it doesn't work for me for periods longer than 20-30 minutes. 
A lot of people who wish to have a comfortable set up use skateboard helmets as a platform for mounting and seem to like it once done.

The AR15.com NV forum has good info from the fanatics in these areas if you really want to dig.  Vic from tacticalNV is the mod and seems to know his stuff fairly well too.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 01:14:17 AM »
An older thread, but there are some things I wanted to add.  First, this article is pretty good for explaining suppressors:

http://www.silencerresearch.com/sound_suppressors_on_high_powered_rifles.htm

Second, if you're looking at nightvision, then consider thermal sights.  Seriously, if you are willing to spend thousands on a sight for night use, then the extra $$ spent on a thermal sight is more than worth it.  I've used just about everything available with regard to weapons and accessories both in and out of combat.  But the average person probably hasn't been exposed to the differences.  Here's a good video explaining the difference in NV and FLIR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAvnMYqj2c0

I told my wife that when I came over for this contract I would be buying "my" gun.  When I do, it will be a suppressed .308 with thermal.  But that's just me.

Two other things to consider about NV.  First, you can kill your headlights, and either with blackout (IR lights), or without (depending on moon/starlight), you can drive down the road!  This is post-SHTF, of course.  Don't do anything illegal!  I'm just pointing out this capability, as my years in the military have given me many miles of "blackout driving".  Something most civilians don't even think about.  The second thing about NV is that with most "pvs-14" style NV (actually any with an image intensifier tube), is that you MUST turn it on at regular intervals.  If left "OFF" in storage the tube can go bad.  Had a friend that bought a $2,500 PVS-14 and it sat for 2 years.  He went to turn it on......nothing.  If you didn't know, a replacement intensifier tube is somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the price of the NV.  Just thought you should know if you haven't made the purchase yet.

P.S.
Thermal imagers (FLIR) aren't susceptible to that storage problem.
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Offline AngusBangus

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2012, 11:33:37 AM »
Second, if you're looking at nightvision, then consider thermal sights.  Seriously, if you are willing to spend thousands on a sight for night use, then the extra $$ spent on a thermal sight is more than worth it.  I've used just about everything available with regard to weapons and accessories both in and out of combat.  But the average person probably hasn't been exposed to the differences.  Here's a good video explaining the difference in NV and FLIR:
P.S.
Thermal imagers (FLIR) aren't susceptible to that storage problem.

I'm with you that thermals are the whiz-bang, end all non-visible sighting system. But do you have any recommendations for thermals that are anywhere in the realm of Gen 2 or lower NV cost wise? I've never found anything that can handle recoil for less than $10k.
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Offline DrJohn

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2012, 01:01:25 PM »
I'm with you that thermals are the whiz-bang, end all non-visible sighting system. But do you have any recommendations for thermals that are anywhere in the realm of Gen 2 or lower NV cost wise? I've never found anything that can handle recoil for less than $10k.

Ain't that the truth.  Heck for 10K you can get a NFA Full auto rig.
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 01:16:27 PM »
I'm looking seriously into the ATN Thor.  They seem to have worked out most of the bugs by now.  The price point starts out at around $5500.  It looks like with this product we can expect the rest of the thermal market begin to follow suit in the pricing.  Otherwise, the other manufacturers are going to be left behind quickly.  Here is a forum where the owners of different Thor versions have reviewed it.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/362096_Who_played_with_the_ATN_Thor_at_Shot_.html&page=1

I'm probably going to go with the 640 in a higher magnification for clarity and distance.  They're rated to be good on retaining zero on rifles up to and including .308.  We'll see once I get one!
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Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 05:10:20 PM »
An older thread, but there are some things I wanted to add.  First, this article is pretty good for explaining suppressors:

http://www.silencerresearch.com/sound_suppressors_on_high_powered_rifles.htm

Second, if you're looking at nightvision, then consider thermal sights.  Seriously, if you are willing to spend thousands on a sight for night use, then the extra $$ spent on a thermal sight is more than worth it.  I've used just about everything available with regard to weapons and accessories both in and out of combat.  But the average person probably hasn't been exposed to the differences.  Here's a good video explaining the difference in NV and FLIR:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAvnMYqj2c0

I told my wife that when I came over for this contract I would be buying "my" gun.  When I do, it will be a suppressed .308 with thermal.  But that's just me.

Two other things to consider about NV.  First, you can kill your headlights, and either with blackout (IR lights), or without (depending on moon/starlight), you can drive down the road!  This is post-SHTF, of course.  Don't do anything illegal!  I'm just pointing out this capability, as my years in the military have given me many miles of "blackout driving".  Something most civilians don't even think about.  The second thing about NV is that with most "pvs-14" style NV (actually any with an image intensifier tube), is that you MUST turn it on at regular intervals.  If left "OFF" in storage the tube can go bad.  Had a friend that bought a $2,500 PVS-14 and it sat for 2 years.  He went to turn it on......nothing.  If you didn't know, a replacement intensifier tube is somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the price of the NV.  Just thought you should know if you haven't made the purchase yet.

P.S.
Thermal imagers (FLIR) aren't susceptible to that storage problem.

Good info, thanks.  I did npt know abiut the storage issue.  And no, I haven't purchased one yet.  Not sure it will get done either.  A BOL/homestead/vacation property is more important right now.
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Offline Secret Squirrel

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2012, 02:23:02 PM »
I would agree with cohutt on this one. For what you have squirreled away, I would go with a PVS-14. That way if you have to you can slap it on to headgear or a kevlar and drive with it, try doing that with a PVS-22. Use it as monocular, or you can mount it behind your optics with a decent mount. You can pick up an entire set up for just under 3K and that's brand new, with warranty. I know that it'd be fun to have a PVS22 and it has that "cool" factor but no matter how you look at it, this party ain't gonna last forever. There will come a time that you may need these items in yours or your kids lifetime to survive and I could be completely off on this cuz I don't know if you live on a farm with a view of 600 yards but to need a $10K scope for night vision is just insane unless your just rolling in money. Besides most of your attack will be inside of the 200 yard mark or much much closer. Are you set up with a spot on your properly to utilize an optic like this where a PVS14 wouldn't work?

I also agree in redundancy. Buy some parts kits for you main rifle and handgun. Research what breaks and buy some extra parts for each firearm you plan to use. Shit breaks at the worst possible time when your in a firefight and that comment made about training with an individual who has that combat training is solid too. I wouldn't wait on your cousin either. You never know whats going to happen. (He may not come home, he may find some woman in Houston that he falls in love with, whatever). Spending your money on some training at a reputable school, maybe some 1 on 1. training.  My 2¢
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Offline jim124816

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2012, 07:22:12 PM »
I would agree with cohutt on this one. For what you have squirreled away, I would go with a PVS-14. That way if you have to you can slap it on to headgear or a kevlar and drive with it, try doing that with a PVS-22.


Keep in mind that if you drive with any monocular that you will have no depth perception and can be dangerous.  That being said, for most situations I prefer the mono.  That way one eye ( the one looking at the bright green and black) loses the acclimation to low light, and the other one does not.  If I lose battery power I have at least one eye acclimated to low light.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2012, 10:17:45 PM »
Secret Squirrel,

We do have a farm.  For us, the ability to keep the firefight from coming within 200 yards is very important.  When the "bad guys" realize they aren't even able to get within range before they are being picked off quietly (at night), it makes for quite the decision-provoking situation.  Not that this is something everyone needs (based on their circumstances and training).  It's also not a "buy this first" prep.  We have the other more important preps squared away in redundancy.  For those that are considering "raising the bar" on their capabilities, suppressors, NV or thermal are some of those ways to do it.  With that in mind, even a PVS-14 should not be considered a prep to purchase until the other bases are covered and with multiples.
Nate
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Offline Joe_Nobody

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2012, 06:01:50 AM »
I'll throw in my two cents:

Like so many others on this thread, I can't say enough about NV. We use ours almost weekly for something other than prep or training.

One comment I would like to add - at night, distances become less with just about every activity. I wouldn't be overly concerned about NV that will work with a magnified rifle scope or fixed mounting associated with that setup.
I've run NV behind ACOGs, Aimpoints and EoTechs. Anything over a 4x is going to be overkill.

With the NV, it's difficult to range, identify and discern outside of 300 meters unless you are in completely open desert. Even then, things get blurry. My thinking is that even post-collapse, we preppers are still going to want to identify friend vs. foe.

If you are truly thinking of investing over 5K, I would consider going thermal if I were you. The prices are coming down slowly and it's an interesting capability.

I would invest in a high quality air rifle before a cancellation device. They have become very powerful - much, much more than a pellet rifle...just saying.

One other consideration - if you decide on going with a PVS-14, check out the WPT models. My go-to is now a WPT - it works slightly better with most halo dots and my old eyes like it just a tad better.

Best of luck - Joe

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2012, 11:55:11 AM »
Night vision all the way.

PS: Hey, Joe, nice to see you on TSP.  We have something in common (Prepper Press).

You might be interested in the ten-book prepper novel series called 299 Days.  I, like, wrote it and stuff.  Prepper Press is publishing it.  Seriously.  Check out www.299Days.com.

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Offline PrepperJim

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2012, 12:35:30 PM »
I'll throw in my two cents:

Like so many others on this thread, I can't say enough about NV.

Best of luck - Joe
Hi Joe,

I've read some of your books including the TEOTWAWKI Tuxedo.

Would you consider any NV below Gen 3?

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Offline Joe_Nobody

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2012, 08:08:14 PM »
G - sup dude...How come you ain't busy writing?  8)

On NV below Gen 3:

To date, I've not seen one that I would go with. I hear some of the new Gen IIs are pretty good, esp if you have an IR light to help out.

Would I take a GenII over a flashlight? Yes, Sir!

Would I save up another $1,000 bucks and get a GenIII - ya betcha.



Offline Heavy G

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2012, 09:21:48 PM »
When it comes to whether or not to have NV, I ask myself, "What would Bishop do?"

(That's the main character in Joe Nobody's book series "Holding Their Own.")

The answer is: Bishop crushed the bad guys with NV.  He'd have been dust without NV.

You might be interested in the ten-book prepper novel series called 299 Days.  I, like, wrote it and stuff.  Prepper Press is publishing it.  Seriously.  Check out www.299Days.com.

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Offline Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2012, 10:02:08 PM »
G - sup dude...How come you ain't busy writing?  8)

On NV below Gen 3:

To date, I've not seen one that I would go with. I hear some of the new Gen IIs are pretty good, esp if you have an IR light to help out.

Would I take a GenII over a flashlight? Yes, Sir!

Would I save up another $1,000 bucks and get a GenIII - ya betcha.

Have to agree. The difference between GenII & GenIII is remarkable. In NV, one really does get what one pays for and the force multipliying capabilities are astounding. Or at least, they were to me as a non-military consumer.

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Offline cptd

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 10:30:04 PM »
I think all of those things are extras.

I recently retired from a career in the Army, having served most of my time between the 82nd airborne division and the ranger regiment. I served six combat tours during my career and have had lots of tactical training and experience with and without the equipment you listed.

The more technology you have the more dependent you get on it for one thing. I can't tell you how many times in Afghanistan there weren't enough batteries to go around, and a lot of our fancy gadgets became useless. I'd say I've done about as many if not more night ops without NVG's than with.

If you feel the need to look like Rambo, by all means, buy that stuff. But if it were me- and I've been through some of the best survival training the world has to offer - I'd take that money and turn it into silver or gold or other barterable materials because these things are not survival necessities. It sounds like you've got more than enough firepower and you could probably benefit more by looking at your total survival plan. Look for other areas that you could benefit from stocking up. Improve your food or water plan. These things will be much more important than whether you've got a suppressor or not.

Of course, buying rice is not as sexy as buying a night vision scope, I understand that. If you look at the whole picture and really decide that everything else is up to par, then use the money for precious metals, because there will be something you've overlooked (there is in every plan) and you'll need to have means of acquiring it. That adaptability is far more likely to make or break you than some whiz-bang gadget.

You also have to realize that there will be opportunities on the other side of the SHTF scenario, that is, when things settle down (which they will) the people with some solid assets will be able to get pretty much whatever they want. I've seen this pattern repeat itself all over the world in civil collapse. Ultimately order will be restored - even if it takes years - and when that happens if you've got nothing set aside but beans and bullets you're sudddenly going to find yourself unprepared. All the talk about prepping frequently lacks good sound advice about what to do with your money so that you can benefit on the other end of the ordeal. We act like the ordeal is just going to go on and on forever, and that's simply not the case - it pretty much never is, except in some parts of the world with particularly bad tribal feuds (North Africa, for example, where the S has been Hing the F for decades). We don't live in North Africa and it ain't going to be a permanent situation, which is something else to be prepared for.


Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2012, 01:57:20 AM »
All good information guys, thanks. . . .  I don't mean to contradict, but with all the recent posts and folks that obviously know way more than myself, I have to ask, is the below information accurate?  Is this issue a problem only for certain models?  I've never heard about this issue before (but who am I to know).

Unless we see some SHTF scenario in my lifetime this "gadget", for me, would only serve to support my hobbies.  I think it would prove very useful in hunting coyotes around the farm, but other than that, it's going to be sitting unused.  Thermal is just out of my league in justifying the cost.

The second thing about NV is that with most "pvs-14" style NV (actually any with an image intensifier tube), is that you MUST turn it on at regular intervals.  If left "OFF" in storage the tube can go bad.  Had a friend that bought a $2,500 PVS-14 and it sat for 2 years.  He went to turn it on......nothing.  If you didn't know, a replacement intensifier tube is somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 the price of the NV.
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Offline Joe_Nobody

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2012, 09:02:58 AM »
I've never heard that about the tubes. I use my NVD all the time, so its never been a concern. I think that a worthy question of the manufacture.

I can't argue with the statement above that NVD is an "extra." cptd makes a valid point, and each person should evaluate their own priorities.

I've spent my share of time in hostile lands and technology can always fail in the field. That applies to everything from scopes to weapons to the blade of a knife. (2 =1 and 1 = 0) If given the choice between night ops with or without NVD, I'll take the NVD every single time. Why not have the advantage? That's why the military spends millions of dollars on that technology and it's still export restricted.

Another topic that should be considered is who is reading these posts. I'm 52, and my natural night vision has degraded over time. Military ops are typically conducted by gents in their prime; well trained, excellent communication skills and adapted to working with a team in a hostile environment.

I post in these forums thinking of the average Joe Nobody. A little older, a little less training and probably scared shitless-er (I made that word up) in a situation. In addition, many of the readers will have dependents, such as the very young or elderly. Family members with no training, few skills and even more frightened or confused than average. Could I fight/survive/operate at night without NVD - you bet I have and still could. Will my odds improve by having the technology - I firmly believe so. As I get older, I need all the odds I can lay my hands on.

There is one additional consideration that I find often goes unaddressed in these conversations: What might you be going up against? How well equipped is the threat? As time goes on, I don't think it unreasonable to assume desperadoes (bad guys) will be equipped with NVD. My local gun stores sure do sell a lot of them. Someone is buying them. Will that someone be the guy who tries to raid my pantry? Now you are talking about an entirely different situation. It's one thing to talk about both sides bumbling around in the dark - It's a horse of a different color if you ponder the threat having extended capabilities. I've used NVD during a fight - I don't want to be the ONLY one without it. 

 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:08:37 AM by Joe_Nobody »

Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2012, 09:08:35 AM »
I post in these forums thinking of the average Joe Nobody. A little older, a little less training and probably scared shitless-er (I made that word up) in a situation. In addition, many of the readers will have dependents, such as the very young or elderly. Family members with no training, few skills and even more frightened or confused than average. Could I fight/survive/operate at night without NVD - you bet I have and still could. Will my odds improve by having the technology - I firmly believe so. As I get older, I need all the odds I can lay my hands on.

There is one additional consideration that I find often goes unaddressed in these conversations: What might you be going up against? How well equipped is the threat? As time goes on, I don't think it unreasonable to assume desperadoes (bad guys) will be equipped with NVD. My local gun stores sure do sell a lot of them. Someone is buying them. Will that someone be the guy who tries to raid my pantry? Now you are talking about an entirely different situation. It's one thing to talk about both sides bumbling around in the dark - It's a horse of a different color if you ponder the threat having extended capabilities. I've used NVD during a fight - I don't want to be the one without it.

Exactly !!
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Offline rogersorders

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2012, 01:08:02 PM »
Count me in for NVD's.

PVS-14's or if you can afford them PVS-15's but I think I'd rather have 2 or 3 sets 14's than 1 set of 15's, especially if you're trying to outfit a team (family).

I grew up (in the Army) wearing 14's and have spent many nights with them on my face. I wouldn't trade the ability to see at night for anything. First of all it's beautiful, you'll see more stars on a clear winter night than you've ever seen before. Secondly, if you ever get into a situation where you need them it will be the difference between life and death. I count them as one reason I'm alive today.

That being said, like anything else you have to train with them. I know from experience going from not wearing them for a few months to having to operate at night there is an adjustment period. But after a while I could judge a shadow on the ground and know there's a hole.

I like the 14's because it's nice having one eye with good (natural) night vision. Having NVD's on is like staring into a bright green screen, take them off and your natural night vision is shot for 20 min. I've never worn 15's, my guys were getting them as I was leaving, but I've heard dual tubes will give you better depth perception and they have better filtering ability for sudden, bright lights.

Of course once you get a set you'll need an IR laser. I never liked trying to bring my Aimpoint to NVD's. I'm not sure if PEQ-2 or PEQ-15's are available outside of LEO/military but they're awesome too.
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Offline PrepperJim

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2012, 02:14:40 PM »
In order to get away with buying them, I'd have to have a commercial-scale-Heavy-G money laundering operation. ;-)

I really have other priorities like finding a bug-out location.
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Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2012, 02:43:48 PM »
I travel and could be caught in a situation where I need to get home.

Hopefully that means my other preps like money can buy me a plane, train, bus, or rental car, but in a worst case scenario I feel better than I might be able to make better time moving at night on my way home, of from home to bug out location.

I prefer to move at night and avoid detection than spending time at the two way firing range. That is why I have night vision. I expect it to be more useful in avoiding contact than as a tool to fight, but I'm ready to use it both ways.

I'm not sure if PEQ-2 or PEQ-15's are available outside of LEO/military but they're awesome too.

To answer this to the best of my ability, there are civilian counterparts. They have a more limited range due to regulations on the power of the laser (which is not an ATF thing, it has to do with the possibility of eye damage from the undetectable to the eye, but still damaging, IR laser. The civilian versions are limited to about 75 yards, which in my view is plenty at night using night vision, unless your opponent also has night vision, in which case the laser is not a good answer. I like my vision, so even if I could get a higher power one, I am not sure I would, 75 yard limit in exchange for the eye safe power is reasonable in my mind. YMMV. Also the battery will last longer on a lower power laser, which can be another benefit.


Offline blademan

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2012, 11:42:09 PM »
A couple things:
 First: Hi Joe NoBody. Love listening to you on TSP. And I loved the airgun recomendation. They have become very powerful indeed. If you want to see an interesting debate on the issue, go here: http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=34805.0 .
 Second: dang you guys for being so persuavie about the advantage of night vision. Now I have another thing on my list screaming for money I don't have. Thanks, really I mean it. ;)
  Three:
     Nelson. Man, I'm gonna take the route some other people have and pomote a 4th option, I would seriously consider more food storage, you sound like you are comfortable in guns and ammo, for now. Even if you split your fun money and go half food and half something else, then you have betted two of your prep areas instead of just one.
   Think about this: you will need and want to eat every day almost for the rest of your life. 
In a shtf, it may not even safe to hunt for a while. If there is erol, hunting may be lost for a while. Every meal you have available before it happens is a meal you don't have to work for later. Hunting is inherently risky and heaping other dangers on top of it just makes it make sense to expand food preps even a little beyond what you think you will need. To what point, well Joe put it well when answering for ammo preps. Apply that to food over the long term. I don't mean necessarily just in the way of storage but in food production/preservation capabilities as well.
   Plus, food is excelent barter, it is an instantly usable comodity. And will be more tradeable for other goods and services than guns and ammo will be. Almost without fail. That's not to say you won't be able to trade, use, buy, whatever, guns and ammo. But which industry is bigger right now, food or guns? Enough said.
     Another avenue you could talk is half gun and half medical preps. Go to an aquarium store abd buy a lot of fish antibiotics to store up. Something like that. I'm not saying not to get the gun supressor or nv, if you have progress on your other prep areas that are equal or greater than what you have in "guns and stuff" then sweet go get a new useful toy/tool.
  Additionally, if you have a group you are thining of being with or around come shtf, you may see if one of them wants to buy one of those things as "group" equipment. Or your people could go in toether on it. Just my thoughts on it. Hope this helps.
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Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2012, 09:50:03 AM »
Nelson. Man, I'm gonna take the route some other people have and pomote a 4th option, I would seriously consider more food storage, you sound like you are comfortable in guns and ammo, for now. Even if you split your fun money and go half food and half something else, then you have betted two of your prep areas instead of just one.
   Think about this: you will need and want to eat every day almost for the rest of your life. 
In a shtf, it may not even safe to hunt for a while. If there is erol, hunting may be lost for a while. Every meal you have available before it happens is a meal you don't have to work for later. Hunting is inherently risky and heaping other dangers on top of it just makes it make sense to expand food preps even a little beyond what you think you will need. To what point, well Joe put it well when answering for ammo preps. Apply that to food over the long term. I don't mean necessarily just in the way of storage but in food production/preservation capabilities as well.
   Plus, food is excelent barter, it is an instantly usable comodity. And will be more tradeable for other goods and services than guns and ammo will be. Almost without fail. That's not to say you won't be able to trade, use, buy, whatever, guns and ammo. But which industry is bigger right now, food or guns? Enough said.
     Another avenue you could talk is half gun and half medical preps. Go to an aquarium store abd buy a lot of fish antibiotics to store up. Something like that. I'm not saying not to get the gun supressor or nv, if you have progress on your other prep areas that are equal or greater than what you have in "guns and stuff" then sweet go get a new useful toy/tool.
  Additionally, if you have a group you are thining of being with or around come shtf, you may see if one of them wants to buy one of those things as "group" equipment. Or your people could go in toether on it. Just my thoughts on it. Hope this helps.

Blademan:  Thank you for your suggestions and comments.  As for my other prep's, I have a good supply but don't know that I'll will EVER be done (does anybody?).  That said, budget money has been allocated to all aspects of my preps based on need and some recieve a higher percentage of available funds than others.

As an update for all:  My concerns have changed just a bit.  We feel we must find another place to live due to the fact that we are so vulnerable here.  The thought process is based on the fact that if we bug-out, we can't posibbly take all of our prep's.  If we bug-in here, we could possibly lose everything.  Our ability to do this will be on whether we can sell our current farm and what we can get for it.  I'll keep you all updated, but I'm not getting in a hurry (so we don't do anything stupid).  At the same time, we are also establishing ways to make this place work as a bug-in location for a contingency plan in the event that we find we can't afford to leave.
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One hundred thousand generations of people lived and ate as hunter-gatherers, and only two generations have grown up on highly processed fast foods. . .  It's not too late

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2012, 10:15:40 AM »
Blademan:  Thank you for your suggestions and comments.  As for my other prep's, I have a good supply but don't know that I'll will EVER be done (does anybody?).  That said, budget money has been allocated to all aspects of my preps based on need and some recieve a higher percentage of available funds than others.

As an update for all:  My concerns have changed just a bit.  We feel we must find another place to live due to the fact that we are so vulnerable here.  The thought process is based on the fact that if we bug-out, we can't posibbly take all of our prep's.  If we bug-in here, we could possibly lose everything.  Our ability to do this will be on whether we can sell our current farm and what we can get for it.  I'll keep you all updated, but I'm not getting in a hurry (so we don't do anything stupid).  At the same time, we are also establishing ways to make this place work as a bug-in location for a contingency plan in the event that we find we can't afford to leave.

 :clap: :clap:

Bravo Sir!  Excellent choice.  PM me offline if there is anything we can assist you with.
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Offline SheepdogSurvival

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2012, 09:24:01 PM »
Nelson, GTG on moving. Keep us updated.

Just for kicks on your original question. I'm going the suppressor route. What can I say I'm a sucker for the damn things :-*.... If times get tough or even if the don't right?

I can't bring myself to spend the coin on an electronic item like NV, I can see pretty well without them, and this whole time in the military I always avoid using them cause they are a major PITA I just don't feel like I have my wits when I'm on NODs (I guess I didn't train with them enough to get comfortable). Anyways I know they are a HUGE force multiplier if used properly etc but it's so much money on a piece of gear that can just die.

Suppressors on the other hand are pretty affordable and once properly mounted, reliable and last a while and can be a great tactical advantage. Plus if I had a dollar for every time I wished I had one I'd be rich by now. I know that I'll get tons of great use out of a suppressor vs other stuff so that is the route I'm taking. I've got a couple of cans on order from Huntertown arms.
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Offline nelson96

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Re: Need Advice (Suppressor, Night Vision, or Another Rifle)
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2012, 10:33:18 PM »
Nelson, GTG on moving. Keep us updated.

Just for kicks on your original question. I'm going the suppressor route. What can I say I'm a sucker for the damn things :-*.... If times get tough or even if the don't right?

I can't bring myself to spend the coin on an electronic item like NV, I can see pretty well without them, and this whole time in the military I always avoid using them cause they are a major PITA I just don't feel like I have my wits when I'm on NODs (I guess I didn't train with them enough to get comfortable). Anyways I know they are a HUGE force multiplier if used properly etc but it's so much money on a piece of gear that can just die.

Suppressors on the other hand are pretty affordable and once properly mounted, reliable and last a while and can be a great tactical advantage. Plus if I had a dollar for every time I wished I had one I'd be rich by now. I know that I'll get tons of great use out of a suppressor vs other stuff so that is the route I'm taking. I've got a couple of cans on order from Huntertown arms.

I appreciate ALL the suggestions and especially all the detailed information to support a decision, but I have to say, I think I agree with you on this Sheepdog.  I found a guy in WA that gives classes on how to build them and he even offers a tutorial dvd that if I remember right cost me $1 to get.  If anyone's interested I'll try to remember where I put his contact information (I'm pretty sure I posted it here somewhere on TSP).
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One hundred thousand generations of people lived and ate as hunter-gatherers, and only two generations have grown up on highly processed fast foods. . .  It's not too late