Author Topic: Greece  (Read 119039 times)

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2015, 11:38:30 AM »
OMGosh Greekman... Is there fresh fruits and vegetables you can even dehydrate on top of a car or tin roofing with two sheets to store in jars?

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Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2015, 01:19:07 PM »
well there are many options for others.
But i live in an apartment.. NO way to use any sustainment/homesteading practices, cannot even can. (but freezer is getting full with a prep i consider vital for preserved/packaged food eaters, the red thick peppers) (see my salsa recipe elsewhere)

But you know with my limited money resources i have gradually acivedmy goal.
Buy now what will become unavailable in the future (imported stuff)
I am 100% in hobby stuff, hygiene and med needs. Car expenses are taken care for the next year and getting for the next one too i all goes well. And now I am expanding on my medium term food (packaged) stores.
In such a situation one must find the balance between spending Euros to stores and preserving what may become HARD and black market currency.

this is why I have differentiated stores spending between  the two scenarios

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Re: Greece
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2015, 06:21:24 PM »
Greekman,
So what's the local opinion about the bank "Crisis" being reported here?

Offline Wild Colonial Boy

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Re: Greece
« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2015, 09:09:20 AM »
Greece may at some point wish to draw some inspiration and lessons from Iceland when its economy collapsed in 2008 in the opening days of the GFC. Operating outside the control of the Euro and ECB may be a viable solution (even if only on an interim basis).

Some good podcasts from the BBC and ABC (Australia) are linked below...

ABC: The Fall and Rise of Iceland
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/the-fall-and-rise-of-iceland/4460526

BBC: Iceland, Lessons for Greece
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02t8tls

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2015, 05:54:08 AM »
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned there must be a deal between Greece and its creditors ahead of Monday's emergency EU summit. On Friday, the European Central Bank (ECB) approved more emergency help for the banks. The amount of extra funding has not been officially disclosed. Meanwhile, Russia says that it will consider granting a loan to Greece if it is asked. If Greece fails to make the repayment due to the International Monetary Fund, it risks having to leave the eurozone and possibly also the EU.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33209199

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Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2015, 12:59:37 PM »
I guess you must have heard about the referndum the Greek PM has declared.
With the Greek-EU-IMF talks getting nowhere, the PM asked the Greek people to vote -next Sunday- on whether they wish to accept the Eu ultimatum for more bleeding taxation.
Politically such a move is multi-dimensional and risky.

IUn the local news all hell is breaking loose. the are ven scenarios that want the Grek president -a former senator for the opposition- to resigning his post, thus forcing elections as a way to hinder the referndum.... :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o,
yeh, right! Media propaganada at its best!

At the moment the general feeling is F U cos peope are venting steam. And I do not think they will change position within the next 6 days.

I will have to go now, cos I am frantically wriiting a new article for my blog. I will keep you posted as soon as I can!


Offline TheRetiredRancher

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Re: Greece
« Reply #66 on: June 27, 2015, 01:10:57 PM »
Alexis Tsipras, prime Minister has referred the last offer by the The IMF and ECB to p public referendum to allow the Greek people to vote on whether to accept the offer or not. He advises people to vote against the proposal. But says he will abide by the will of the people. This effectively ends all hope of very temporary extensions and will give him very strong footing to either accept a bad deal from the creditors ( he saves face by only going against his principles because it is the will of the people) or he has the backing of the populace to leave the EU if necessary and default on their loans. This is a very sharp political move and it is very hard to say which way it will go.

Immediately after this announcement Friday night crowds are forming around ATMs as a run to get cash begins.

Offline TheRetiredRancher

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Re: Greece
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2015, 01:21:19 PM »
Thank you greekman. Keep us posted as you can. I understand the ATMs are getting hit hard today.

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2015, 03:58:36 PM »
yep..cleaned out...I had not time to check a "secret" one -somewhere in the hospital garden- but that must have fallen prey to the workers there.

BTW people also hit the Supermarkets and whatever...A buddy of mine, saw families leaving bakeries with 10-15 loafs of bread!
things are far quiter in the village I work, locals consider uping pigeon farming and fish tanks stock.

http://politika-gr.blogspot.gr/2015/06/blog-post_139.html
Heineken must be sponsoring buying frenzies the world over... ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 04:06:31 PM by Greekman »

nkawtg

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Re: Greece
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2015, 04:58:15 PM »
Greeks Line Up at Banks and Drain ATMs

While not really a run (only 500 of 7,000 ATM's ran dry), it shows Greeks are nervous about an upcoming referendum.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-27/greeks-line-up-at-banks-and-drain-atms-after-tsipras-calls-vote

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2015, 11:14:31 PM »
this is a concise and onto the point analysis of the game that is being played the past 2 days.
Sorry, but you will have to suffer Google translation
http://www.defence-point.gr/news/?p=131747

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Greece
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2015, 01:25:44 AM »
NPR was reporting that Greek legislators were lining up to drain the ATMs in the parliament building, like rats from a sinking ship.

My wife and I booked travel to Greece for a wedding this September.  Not the best timing.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Greece
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2015, 08:38:21 AM »
NPR was reporting that Greek legislators were lining up to drain the ATMs in the parliament building, like rats from a sinking ship.

My wife and I booked travel to Greece for a wedding this September.  Not the best timing.
As long as you dont get mugged your money should go a long way.

Seriously, Lviv Ukraine is gorgeous and super cheap also. Crisis presents opportunities to those willing to deal with the risks.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Greece
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2015, 01:26:05 PM »
As long as you dont get mugged your money should go a long way.

Seriously, Lviv Ukraine is gorgeous and super cheap also. Crisis presents opportunities to those willing to deal with the risks.

Depends how much civil unrest there is, I suppose.  Some of my earliest memories are of running with my parents and sister through the streets of Athens, away from the sound of machine guns, in 1974.  I very distinctly remember bayonets and rumbling tanks.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 01:50:04 PM by FreeLancer »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2015, 01:30:05 PM »
Depends how much civil unrest there is, I suppose.  Some of my earliest memories are of running with my parents and sister through the streets of Athens, away from the sound of machine guns in 1974.  I very distinctly remember bayonets and rumbling tanks.

One of my former 4-H kids was born around that time in Greece. Her mother had to drug her and smuggle her out of Greece in a carry on bag on an airplane to get her out of the chaos there. She was a US citizen, her father was in the military there (?) and Greece would not let the baby out of the country since it was born there. They came home to Oregon.

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Re: Greece
« Reply #75 on: June 28, 2015, 02:35:05 PM »
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has ordered the temporary closure of all the country's banks.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/06/29/crisis-hit-greece-imposes-capital-controls.html

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #76 on: June 28, 2015, 02:38:26 PM »
Hi! i am starting a day-by-day diary of me and the second Greek crisis...
It is going to be a bit too personal but never mind...

Friday, June the 26th

- Tension at work. I practically force my employers for a small advance on my salary.
- After work I fill the car to the brim and buy the week's groceries with a bit more for my preps, following my $3 method.
- In the evening the Greece-EU talks fail and by midnight it is known we are heading for a referendum

Saturday, June the 27th

- ATMs are empty. People are also showing up in the Supermarkets. The larger the city the more paniced they are.
- My father is at a trip. Late after work I gain access to his ATM withdraw card, but it is already too late.
He assures me he has cash for a month. (electronic money is not big in Greece)

Sunday, June the 28th


- More people are lining infront of the ATMs that have been partly replendished. Lines at the gas stations are forming in the major cities.
- I am following my general plan. I have expenses for the next months –including car insurance.
- I am visiting with friends after work so I lose the chance once again to get some more cash.
- By nightfall capital controls are in place, the banks will remain closed for the week and only $70 daily withdraws will be allowed.
- Payday would fall within the week, both for me and for the young couple that leases a studio I own. OUCH!
- I am formulating a plan how to manage what is left of the advance for the daily expenses and for gas to work. Will NOT touch my few savings yet.

Leasons Learned:
1. Had I a better communication and a common plan with my father (he is still reluctant to) we would be set with much needed cash early. Think and act Early!
2. Things are too evolve for the worst faster that one would expect, mainly precipitated by the mass hysteria. The worst is not unimaginable anymore!

« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 02:47:44 PM by Greekman »

Offline bcksknr

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Re: Greece
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2015, 03:14:49 PM »
     OK, I know I should be more informed, at least about the ramifications of a default. It seems as though just the very real possibility of that is causing the beginning of a social upheaval in Greece. This has probably been done elsewhere, but can someone explain what exactly is going on with the Greek economy and how it is affecting the European economy and what this may mean for the global economy (and the U.S. economy)?
     Here's how I see it: Greece has been borrowing from other EU countries to balance it's budget (I don't know why, but is it because they spend more than they take in?). These "loans" have been given a couple of times, because Greece can't or won't cut back on spending or increase productivity. There is a looming deadline for the next loan and some strict measures to force the Greeks to "get their house in order" or not get the loan. At this point, a large portion of the pending loan will actually go to the lenders, to pay off some of the previous loans, leaving little for Greece to use to bail themselves out. The Greek people don't seem willing or able to make the painful cuts necessary to begin to reduce their debt load. If this latest loan doesn't go through, Greece will default on it's debts (both to itself and the EU?). Then what? They get tossed out of the EU for being deadbeats? The countries that are owed money get stiffed? I'ts not like Greece can declare bankruptcy and the EU can "sell" it to get some of their investment back. Or can they?
     This sounds like someone who has charged so much on their credit card that they can't even pay the Interest charges, so they begin to put the payments on a bank loan, but they keep on using the credit card. This has to end in disaster. So what is the finale for the debtor, the banker, other bank customers, etc.
     Am I seeing this right and where does it go from here? What does it mean for us?   

Offline chad

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Re: Greece
« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2015, 03:20:10 PM »
Hold on tight greekman this may get messy...hopefully your preps will help maintain some "normalcy" in the days to follow.

Thanks for the update.

Offline TheRetiredRancher

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Re: Greece
« Reply #79 on: June 28, 2015, 03:22:26 PM »
Thank you Greekman!  This will help us all. 

If you have the desire to and you take really good daily notes it would be really useful to the prepper community if you would write a book of your experiences like Ferfal did about Argentina's default.  It is easy to self publish on Kindle and might be a good income stream for you during the next few difficult years.

Offline Carl

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Re: Greece
« Reply #80 on: June 28, 2015, 03:38:16 PM »
I could send a few dollars,if you get in a jam.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #81 on: June 28, 2015, 05:55:02 PM »
Hi! i am starting a day-by-day diary of me and the second Greek crisis...
It is going to be a bit too personal but never mind...

+1 for this.

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #82 on: June 28, 2015, 05:56:09 PM »
Banks in Greece will not open on Monday as officials scrambled to prevent the country's financial system from collapsing in panic. Account holders will face tough limits on what they can withdraw from ATMs, and the stock exchange will reportedly be shut. The measures were announced Sunday as Greece slid rapidly toward default and exit from the eurozone.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/28/news/economy/greece-banks-ecb/index.html

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #83 on: June 28, 2015, 05:59:10 PM »
     OK, I know I should be more informed, at least about the ramifications of a default. It seems as though just the very real possibility of that is causing the beginning of a social upheaval in Greece.

Not just Greece kiddo.. not just Greece.

Cedar

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Greece
« Reply #84 on: June 28, 2015, 06:11:27 PM »
Hi! i am starting a day-by-day diary of me and the second Greek crisis...

Thank you for doing this.  +1

Stay safe my friend.

Offline mnotlyon

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Re: Greece
« Reply #85 on: June 28, 2015, 06:25:24 PM »
I'd be very interested to hear about what you use for money, what items are hard to come by, and how citizens react. I'd subscribe to your book if it helps.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Greece
« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2015, 06:43:55 PM »
One big question which needs answering is who will have control of the remaining 112.5 tons of Greek gold which used to back Greece's currency.  Greece failed in its repatriation efforts so it is held by the Fed, the German bank, and a bit in Switzerland.  If Greece pulls out of EU, chances are Swiss will give it to the Greek government and Germany will hand it over to EU.  But what will the Fed do? Will they support Greece or will they support the EU central bank in this dispute?  The political ramifications for the US are huge.

Offline TheRetiredRancher

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Re: Greece
« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2015, 07:00:41 PM »
The gold issue is one I had not heard off. Interesting!

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Greece
« Reply #88 on: June 28, 2015, 07:11:01 PM »
The gold issue is one I had not heard off. Interesting!

It is being covered in the gold news as it is one reason gold prices are being suppressed. The market feared Greece would sell it off to pay the most current loan calls.   But the new Greek government instead tried to secure it as the starting capital for a new Greek currency.

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2015, 11:06:04 PM »
One big question which needs answering is who will have control of the remaining 112.5 tons of Greek gold which used to back Greece's currency.  Greece failed in its repatriation efforts so it is held by the Fed, the German bank, and a bit in Switzerland.  If Greece pulls out of EU, chances are Swiss will give it to the Greek government and Germany will hand it over to EU.  But what will the Fed do? Will they support Greece or will they support the EU central bank in this dispute?  The political ramifications for the US are huge.

well the renewed greek dept is under the Uk law, not the local. ergo it will just be seized. had it been under the Greek law, a definitive (greek) Court order should be issued for that, would be impossible...


     OK, I know I should be more informed, at least about the ramifications of a default. It seems as though just the very real possibility of that is causing the beginning of a social upheaval in Greece. This has probably been done elsewhere, but can someone explain what exactly is going on with the Greek economy and how it is affecting the European economy and what this may mean for the global economy (and the U.S. economy)?
     Here's how I see it: Greece has been borrowing from other EU countries to balance it's budget (I don't know why, but is it because they spend more than they take in?). These "loans" have been given a couple of times, because Greece can't or won't cut back on spending or increase productivity. There is a looming deadline for the next loan and some strict measures to force the Greeks to "get their house in order" or not get the loan. At this point, a large portion of the pending loan will actually go to the lenders, to pay off some of the previous loans, leaving little for Greece to use to bail themselves out. The Greek people don't seem willing or able to make the painful cuts necessary to begin to reduce their debt load. If this latest loan doesn't go through, Greece will default on it's debts (both to itself and the EU?). Then what? They get tossed out of the EU for being deadbeats? The countries that are owed money get stiffed? I'ts not like Greece can declare bankruptcy and the EU can "sell" it to get some of their investment back. Or can they?

What is mising from your analysis is this. Upon the IMF-EU intervention, stark austerity measures were implemented with the purpose of creatign an internal devaluation, since greek holds Euros.
But calculations were done on the wrong ypothesis. there is a thing called "multiplier something" and shows how much state revenues will fall when market is shrank. It was supposed to be close to 1, so what the State would loose as much tax money as it would save. But this thing faile cos we soon enter a recessive spiral.
Almost a year, the IMF itself- accepted miscacuculating this multiplier. It seems its real value may be up to 2.6.
that means that the Greek state is loosing 2.6 times in revenue for what is saving/investing/subdisizing.
scary huh?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 11:13:41 PM by Greekman »