Author Topic: Greece  (Read 120047 times)

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2015, 01:27:40 PM »
Monday, June the 29th

- The day passed rather calmly considering. People lined up at the ATMs, did their supplies shopping, sometime in exorbitant amounts, like 500 Euros.
- It is unknown how long the 60euro limit will remain, cos money will run out eventually.
- Some businessses refuse Credit & Debit Cards. Cash is king
- Personally i filled out my gas tank and bought with a debit card the tidbits of stored preps I was sort of according to my plan.
And of course withdrew my share of 60.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2015, 02:20:11 PM »
- Personally i filled out my gas tank and bought with a debit card the tidbits of stored preps I was sort of according to my plan.

Are you limiting driving more than you normally would?

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Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Greece
« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »
Thanks for the continued updates GreekMan.

I hope we never need to refer to your notes during our future crisis.

endurance

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Re: Greece
« Reply #93 on: June 29, 2015, 02:37:26 PM »
Monday, June the 29th

- The day passed rather calmly considering. People lined up at the ATMs, did their supplies shopping, sometime in exorbitant amounts, like 500 Euros.
- It is unknown how long the 60euro limit will remain, cos money will run out eventually.
- Some businessses refuse Credit & Debit Cards. Cash is king
- Personally i filled out my gas tank and bought with a debit card the tidbits of stored preps I was sort of according to my plan.
And of course withdrew my share of 60.
The Greek Ferfal has arrived!

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Re: Greece
« Reply #94 on: June 29, 2015, 02:47:10 PM »
Oh, well said!!

Offline The Spartan Dad

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Re: Greece
« Reply #95 on: June 29, 2015, 05:04:39 PM »
Couldn't you in theory use prepaid cards to transfer money out of a bank account and keep it locked into a preferable currency?

Essentially, use your bank account/debit card (direct transfer only.. NOT credit cards) to order multiple 100 Euro prepaid Visa or Am Ex cards. Now you have easily spendable currency that's locked into Euros. If your bank account gets converted in drachmas, you've already converted X percentage of it to Euros which would be accepted anywhere Visa or Am Ex is. They might not be easily spendable at the moment if businesses are accepting cash only right now but eventually they'll have to go back to accepting cards... or just an outright trade of a card(s) for groceries, services, rent, etc. if Euros are in high demand down the road.

I don't see why someone couldn't order as many of these as they desired using Amazon, Paypal (direct bank account transfer possible), or however online if not in a physical store. Possibly a person couldn't do this now in Greece with the bank holiday (maybe you still could?) but it would have been an option on the Friday before and over the weekend in the lead up to it when ATMs were getting cleaned out.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2015, 08:46:08 PM »
Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin. With bank doors slammed shut, frantic Greeks are turning to online trading platforms to see if the digital money Bitcoin is a better bet than the euro. Ten times as many Greeks are registering to trade bitcoins on the German marketplace Bitcoin.de than usual, according to CEO Oliver Flaskaemper. Bitcoin trades from Greece have shot up 79% from their ten-week average on Bitstamp, the world's third-largest exchange.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/technology/greece-bitcoin/index.html

Cedar

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #97 on: June 29, 2015, 10:30:22 PM »
morning folks!
multi-answers....

Quote
Are you limiting driving more than you normally would?
Yep! now it is work only. Until this clears out I will not visit the campsite i have setup in our mountain.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w192/greekpreparedness/web-0511_zpstdffjuto.jpg~original
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w192/greekpreparedness/web-0500_zps8clcqurk.jpg~original
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w192/greekpreparedness/web-0507_zps2nj3ube5.jpg~original
In fact last week I recharged my drill and got some monster screws to make soem serious work there
Quote
The Greek Ferfal has arrived!
LOLOLOL! well he has been an inspiration and a savior at times

Quote
Couldn't you in theory use prepaid cards to transfer money out of a bank account and keep it locked into a preferable currency?
I do not think it is possible with foreign banks. Also I think this particular situation will be short lived. Banks will run out of oney within days and then it is either an agreement or leaving Euro alltogether

Quote
I could send a few dollars,if you get in a jam.
thanks for the offer Carl. But i think we will run out of meds before we run out of money. My father has a heart condition, taking 7 different pills. If we go that far then i will ask for the forums help. (but i am formulating a plan to buying them from nearby Bulgaria)

Ok...that's it for now, got to go for my daily ATM run before work today!

PS..Guys and Gals i need some help with rechecking my assumptions.
How do you feel this situation will evolve?
And do you think has gone too far with the referendum and practically severing ties with the EU leadership?


Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Greece
« Reply #98 on: June 29, 2015, 11:05:17 PM »
My take would be that everyone votes against the austerity and you will leave the Euro  - and after some adjustment, things will calm down.

I think you had said if more austerity was done it would cause 25% additional tax on FOOD ( what you call VAT) ? with things like that offered as a "solution" I do not think there is any choice but to leave the Euro -- In my state taxing food is illegal as it is a necessity !

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2015, 11:09:31 PM »
Nice campspot Greekman! How is the water situation up there however?

Cedar

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: Greece
« Reply #100 on: June 29, 2015, 11:25:45 PM »

PS..Guys and Gals i need some help with rechecking my assumptions.
How do you feel this situation will evolve?
And do you think has gone too far with the referendum and practically severing ties with the EU leadership?

If you are right about the Greek government losing control of gold holdings,  then there really is no short term choice but staying in EU. In which case the Greek government froze access to accounts so they could work out a formula for taking a portion of bank accounts and pensions.  Probably would be something like a twenty-five percent seizure.   They will argue that this was necessary to be fair given certain individuals avoiding taxes.   They also will claim that this impacts wealthiest most so they are looking after the vulnerable.   Of course it will simply be a kick the can down the road.

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Re: Greece
« Reply #101 on: June 29, 2015, 11:29:48 PM »
@ Greekman,

Please be proactive in securing life dependent medications sooner rather than later.   

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f981cd1e-1e6b-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3eWHg0vPi

It is going to be important to stay ahead of the curve on all your family's needs.   

Thoughts and prayers for your safety during this very uncertain time.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2015, 10:53:48 AM »
PS..Guys and Gals i need some help with rechecking my assumptions.
How do you feel this situation will evolve?
And do you think has gone too far with the referendum and practically severing ties with the EU leadership?

I would hesitate to presume anything about this... with political stuff like Greece, Russia, Ukraine, Iran and so forth, it really is a crapshoot. We have no idea what is happening behind the scenes, we have no idea whose egos are involved, what is the political gain for whomever. The economy worldwide seems to be made of a house of cards that 'someone' keeps shoring up with a gossamer substance which needs to be shored up again with the next duststorm. So many people wonder how it has held up as long as it has, and yet, 'magically' it keeps holding together, but not solving the problems.. and it just keeps getting worse.

Something will happen.. it will not stay the same. Whether that is a good something or a bad something.. or something good which turns bad, or something bad with turns good, who is to say until years and years and years from now when they analyze it to death and then maybe even then they will still quarrel about that really happened.

The best you can do is do what you personally can, get meds for your kinfolk, and hang on for a potential wild ride.

Cedar

endurance

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Re: Greece
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2015, 11:50:55 AM »
...

PS..Guys and Gals i need some help with rechecking my assumptions.
How do you feel this situation will evolve?
And do you think has gone too far with the referendum and practically severing ties with the EU leadership?
I think you're in for one of the most challenging eras in your life, but a time you're likely to look back on with mixed feelings; friendships will be tested and those that endure will be the deepest friendships you'll ever have, others will stab you in the back over a dollar when times are at their toughest.  You'll develop a network of people from all walks of life that you'll depend on and who depend on you.  Carve our your niche, carve it deep and wide so there will always be people who will protect you as a resource.  What you have as possessions will matter little, what you have between your ears will matter a lot.

I think things are going to get very tough for a while with wide spread shortages of everything not locally produced until a new economy is established.  Common medications, even over the counter are likely to be in short supply.  Energy shortages in all forms will emerge, from electrical to transportation, so any independence you can build in, all the better.  The Euro is likely going to stick around even after the country leaves the Euro because the new money won't be trusted, but if you work for the government or collect a pension you might be paid in one currency, but be unable to spend it and have to exchange it at unfair rates to get money you can use.  Pensions will likely be unreliable and there's going to be suffering among the aged.  Be charitable if you can be, but family comes first.

Eventually an economy will return, but it's likely it will take years to balance out and it will be to a new, lower standard of living than you were accustomed to.  Hope that nothing interferes with the big economic engine of Greece, tourism.  High crime, riots, and civil war will be a worst case scenario, but likely to occur to some degree.  The more effectively the tourist destinations can be protected, the better for everyone.

And honestly, it's a mess with the EU leaders and the situation that has evolved.  I don't think there ever was a right answer; suffering was going to have to come no matter how you look at it.  That time will come for each nation eventually since all modern economics are built on debt and bubbles, but you guys are leading the way, thus, why I think we're all so interested to hear your stories. 

An on-line friend was 16 when NATO intervened in Serbia.  Hell of a rough story, but people endure.  They find a way to get through the crap and find joy in simple moments.  It changes you forever, but it's not all bad.  Your timeline shortens, your expectations change, you adapt and you overcome.  Greekman, you're a smart guy.  You'll find a way through and I look forward to learning from you on your journey.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2015, 01:08:37 PM »
That time will come for each nation eventually since all modern economics are built on debt and bubbles, but you guys are leading the way, thus, why I think we're all so interested to hear your stories.

Yeppers.

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #105 on: June 30, 2015, 02:47:46 PM »
Fitch downgrades Greece to CC as default looms

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #106 on: June 30, 2015, 03:20:39 PM »
Eurozone finance ministers have rejected a Greek government call to extend its bailout, just hours before it expires and a €1.6bn (£1.1bn) payment to the IMF falls due.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325886

Cedar

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #107 on: June 30, 2015, 03:48:24 PM »
Bonnieblue2A. cedar & Endurance
thanks for your encouraging words....

mountainmoma
VAt means Value Added Tax and it isprevalent in Europe. All merchandises and services have this tax added.
I think it is unfair, especially on food and utilities, especially for people on a low income. As 50 percent of it is consumed in life-sustaining things.

Tuesday, June the 30th.
- Things are calm, i think we have reached an equilibrium for now
- The media are in a rage of black propaganda, scare tactics and misinformation. i.e. they play the first part of CNNs report on the ATM lines (or should it be ques?) but purposefully omit the second part that shows Athens bustling with traffic as usual.
- I had word that in the tourist islands it is business as usual. Strangely it seems it is the tourist that are hitting the bottle instead of the locals
- In the morning I found elders standing in anticipation outside the bank. It is of those that did not came into the modern era and are lacking ATM cards. There are reports that other elders cannot handle the ATM process and have their cards locked and kept by the machine. It is said that the banks will open Thursday for the pensioners only and a limit of 240 Eurtos will be maintained (4days worth of 60s, Monday to Thursday)
- I do not see the situation going much further as money will eventually run out. Thus I started emptying an account i keep a very small amount of money for travelling purposes.
- I have allocated funds for 30 days of travel to work, but not more
- In the Greek survival forum we have started a thread on material assistance between members, and we are in the process of establising the process. (mainly finding a way to maintaining anonymity for the sender)

Leasons Learned:
Maintain more than a bank account, so that you have more sources of cash. Do not link accounts to the same ATM/debit card cos they will be treated as one regarding withdrawl limits. Start e-banking so that you can transfer funds between accounts (that is useful if you have a seperate account for your Credit Card)

On the lighter side of things.
Cedar, my campsite is just that, not a BugOut place. Actually it is on a mountain side where locals free camp during the summer.
There is no water close by, but there is a busting village 15minutes of walk from it.
I had spoted the particluar spot 2 years ago and it is rather private, at the end of a trail. I was happy to find that on the back side of it the forest was electively harvested for telephone pole trees the year before, so there is a lot of debris to BBQ and enjoy a nighttime fire.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 04:01:51 PM by Greekman »

Offline archer

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Re: Greece
« Reply #108 on: June 30, 2015, 04:15:54 PM »
Subject: CNN Breaking News

-- Greece officially defaults on a $1.7 billion payment to the IMF.

Greece has defaulted on the 1.5 billion euros ($1.7 billion) it owes the International Monetary Fund [money.cnn.com], becoming
the first developed economy to default to the IMF. It is the biggest debt default by a country ever.

Greece is 323 billion euros ($352.7 billion) in debt to other European countries, the European Central Bank and the
International Monetary Fund. The sum is equivalent to more than 175% of the country's GDP.

Greece took preemptive measures Monday, closing its banks and markets until July 6. The move caused European stocks to fall. The
government in Athens also restricted bank withdrawals to 60 euros (U.S. $66) a day.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 04:39:23 PM by Archer »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #109 on: June 30, 2015, 04:53:31 PM »
A friend just sent me this... and 5 ways for Greece to get out of it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-30/these-are-greeces-5-possible-paths

Cedar

Offline chad

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Re: Greece
« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2015, 07:23:26 PM »
I think you're in for one of the most challenging eras in your life, but a time you're likely to look back on with mixed feelings; friendships will be tested and those that endure will be the deepest friendships you'll ever have, others will stab you in the back over a dollar when times are at their toughest.  You'll develop a network of people from all walks of life that you'll depend on and who depend on you.  Carve our your niche, carve it deep and wide so there will always be people who will protect you as a resource.  What you have as possessions will matter little, what you have between your ears will matter a lot.

I think things are going to get very tough for a while with wide spread shortages of everything not locally produced until a new economy is established.  Common medications, even over the counter are likely to be in short supply.  Energy shortages in all forms will emerge, from electrical to transportation, so any independence you can build in, all the better.  The Euro is likely going to stick around even after the country leaves the Euro because the new money won't be trusted, but if you work for the government or collect a pension you might be paid in one currency, but be unable to spend it and have to exchange it at unfair rates to get money you can use.  Pensions will likely be unreliable and there's going to be suffering among the aged.  Be charitable if you can be, but family comes first.

Eventually an economy will return, but it's likely it will take years to balance out and it will be to a new, lower standard of living than you were accustomed to.  Hope that nothing interferes with the big economic engine of Greece, tourism.  High crime, riots, and civil war will be a worst case scenario, but likely to occur to some degree.  The more effectively the tourist destinations can be protected, the better for everyone.

And honestly, it's a mess with the EU leaders and the situation that has evolved.  I don't think there ever was a right answer; suffering was going to have to come no matter how you look at it.  That time will come for each nation eventually since all modern economics are built on debt and bubbles, but you guys are leading the way, thus, why I think we're all so interested to hear your stories. 

An on-line friend was 16 when NATO intervened in Serbia.  Hell of a rough story, but people endure.  They find a way to get through the crap and find joy in simple moments.  It changes you forever, but it's not all bad.  Your timeline shortens, your expectations change, you adapt and you overcome.  Greekman, you're a smart guy.  You'll find a way through and I look forward to learning from you on your journey.



Wise words, Brother...+1

Offline Cedar

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Re: Greece
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2015, 08:39:35 PM »


Cedar

Offline TheRetiredRancher

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Re: Greece
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2015, 09:04:03 PM »
The fact that Italy and Spain own a lot of Greek debt adds to the chance of contagion.  But you can certainly see why Germany does not want Greece to default.

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2015, 10:27:23 PM »
A friend just sent me this... and 5 ways for Greece to get out of it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-30/these-are-greeces-5-possible-paths

4&5 are possible/plausible

But in 4 we may see a rapid devaluation of the IOUs. Street market will trading them at less than face value.
In 5 I am not sure of the positive effects being that remarkable. Most raw materials are imported (practically doubling in cost) and the increased incentive for exports (hard currency0 may lead to local shortages. It has been happening with locally produced and low price medicines already

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Greece
« Reply #114 on: July 01, 2015, 11:30:05 AM »

Offline CKMe

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Re: Greece
« Reply #115 on: July 01, 2015, 01:39:17 PM »
 :popcorn:

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #116 on: July 01, 2015, 02:04:19 PM »
Wensday, July the 1st

- Tomorrow lines at the ATMs increased. half past 10 in the night and there were 4-5 people in the ATMs in my town. people either seem to take the situation seriously or are genuinely scared by the media.
- I also withheard conversations and curses on the political system. Sentiments go back to the 70s. people are getting too polarized. Propaganda wins...
- More and more businesses decline credit or debit cards, especially gas station. the State issued a mandaneforcing them to accept them.
- I heard the disturbing info that the oil companies demand to be paid in advance either by wire transfer or by Cash! With their margin very low, some gas stations will eventually will looose liquidity and close.
- I regret not buying those surplus NATO gas can last year. Though transpoting (passenger car) and storing them is very problematic in my case.

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Greece
« Reply #117 on: July 01, 2015, 04:13:17 PM »
Greek offer to end default crisis a day late and €€ short
Quote
Markets around the world, including the futures market for the US, leaped upward overnight on word that Greece had largely accepted the last proposal from the European Union to end the default crisis and keep the Greeks within the Eurozone.  Investors should have looked before they leaped. Reports first assumed that the letter from Greek PM Alexis Tsipras mainly capitulated to the EU’s last position, but it contains significant changes to that proposal.

So that'd explain the upswing in the market.  It's all based on the perceptions of those buying and selling, betting on their perceived futures.

And, with respect Greekman, I don't think either your government, or it's debtors, have any idea what austerity actually is.

It is synonymous with frugality, and simplicity.  It is highly related to the concept of "being Spartan".  It involves cutting all spending, luxury, etc, to the point where you only have what you absolutely must have to survive.

An example is the austere life of a Franciscan monk, who has a small living space perhaps 6x6, with a mattress, possibly a rack to keep bugs from getting into the bed, one or two changes of clothes, a pair of sandles, his rosary for his prayers (the entire point of his being there) and depending on the era, either his own bible, or access to various books in the library.  The monks often grew what food they could, and had walls of rock or stucco, designed more for defense than for physical beauty.

It is asinine for them to call higher taxes (particularly on the homeless, as you've said) 'austerity'.  Austerity means scaling back on the expense (and thus necessarily the size) of government.

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2015, 10:48:30 PM »
of course.
They just use it as it fits them. From just cutting back some expenses, all the way to cutting back on healthcare.
In the first stage of the crissi there where cancer patients not finding their medications, or couldn't pay for their exams
Somehow they can be more austere than the Franciscans whne it comes to others

Offline Greekman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2015, 10:50:42 PM »
Thursday, July the 2nd

- I spent some hours in the vening watching TV. The propaganda against the referendum has become vehemently disgusting. it is hard to believe that there are people that will fall to it. It is actually so provocative that makes resonable people suspicious of its purposes and fundng.
BTW all the corrupt parties taht brought Greece the its knees are against the referendum.
- It seems we will be facing lack of fruit packing material at work. Companies cannot import raw materials at the moment and are running on stock.