Author Topic: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?  (Read 22669 times)

Offline livinitup0

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2012, 03:57:06 PM »
well blademan im not trying to pointlessly argue or insult you and I apoligize if ive done something to make you feel that way.

that being said I never once "conceded" to you... not really sure where that came from because I adamantly dont agree with you....that doesnt mean im right or vice versa...that just means I disagree....I think theres far too many variables to factor in to say that one point of view is "right" and the other is "wrong".

that being said... I still feel you're failing to understand what im saying by effective striking range.

If you shoot at me with your airgun, even with your super 50cal round you've still got a very small effective striking range. Its the size of your projectile. If your target moves a foot, an inch even, you can miss... and with the complicated nature of these guns you're not going to get a 2nd shot before your attacker closes the distance to make that weapon pointless. With a bat, my effective striking range is quite large because Ive got nearly a foot of effective striking material to hit you with... much much more than a pellet/round/BB/whateveritscalled. With training could either weapon be much more effective than the other? I really dont know... I really have no desire to train in advanced baseball bat defense or airgun defense.

Are there instances where one of these rifles/guns would be a more effective tool for home defense? maybe... I dont know, ive never shot one.....but from the resarch ive done it does seem to me that I personally would be more effective at repelling a home invasion with a baseball bat than I would be with a 1 shot, super high powered airgun.

You obviously feel differently ....and really... its ok to disagree lol. ...not to mention we've totally derailed this thread from its original intent.

I'll get us back on track....no...bluffing an opponent with a weapon is almost never a good idea unless its your very last resort and im having a hard time even envisioning that scenario.

Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2012, 07:46:42 PM »
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?feature=relmfu&v=0o0XVa5oyMU
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=benjamin%20rogue#/watch?v=xy7fZtRh84Q
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zSdHkXlu-lc
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=zSdHkXlu-lc
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=72fBUCyvZuo
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=XlxcFSq5k8c
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZtVtsChEo
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5GcU9RDiqXY

 I hope this clarifies what I mean when I say high power air rifle. Again, not a perfect solutionwhen compared to a real gun and perhaps not the best solution for all scenarios, but I think the videos show that it would work.
   Livinitup. I agree with you it has gotten a little derailed. I also agree that trying to bluff with even a real gun is a bad idea. If you are bluffing, you are already in the "not ready to use deadly force" crowd. If your bluff gets called, you will hesitate because your hands are full of a tool that you are either unable or unwilling to use and will probably get your ass handed to you or worse. I think we agree there. I think though that with the right air rifle, training and contingencies in place, you reduce the effect of missing your target by a great deal. Yes, some of them are a little bit slower to load. Yes there are other problems, but they still fill the role of a gun in that it delivers threat ending force past your immediate reach.
   Ok, I was misled by your use of the word range. I though you meant the distance you could attack from not the impact zone. And your complaint is the ENTIRE point of fire arms, they take a great deal of force and concentrate it over a small area. The bullet and the bat do the same thing in different ways. And being able to hit your targer is why you would train with the weapon you are going to use. Not just hope you will hit what you are swinging or aiming at when it comes time to do so.
   I'm totally ok with disagreeing, I just felt I was having my viewpoint attacked with pointless sarcasm rather than actual fact or evidence based arguments. I'm not really mad and the whole thing about conceeding was me being a bit sarcastic myself.
     Again, I hope the videos above show why I feel that the right air gun would be a good part of a mulitfaceted home defense system. One last example to drive my point home.
   These air rifles are essientially equivalent to a single shot bolt action rifle in function though they are MUCH less powerful though powerful enough to kill a person.
   So if you were trying to repel a home invasion and you had a choice between a club and a single shot bolt action hunting rifle, which would you pick? I'm going to pick the rifle, almost all the time. Why, it allows me to deal with a problem effectively without having to touch it untill it stops moving.  But its cool though, to each his own.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2012, 10:22:54 PM »
That Benjamin 357 fires a 170gr bullet at 800 fps. So certainly lethal. Not counting the cost of a high pressure tank to fill it, the gun itself is almost $1400.

So sure, for the price of a good shotgun, good pistol and a good rifle, you can have a wonky air gun enthusiasts rifle.

As to the OP, waving around a fake gun of any variety is a great way to end up dead.

Okay, get back to it    :deadhorse:

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2012, 10:53:11 PM »
   In review:
1. The RIGHT high powered large caliber air rifle (not pistol) is a good PART of a home defense SYSTEM in the absence of firearms
2. You should train with your air rifle to defend your home with your air rifle the same as you would with a real gun.
3. Develop a home defense system that is redundant and multifaceted. Implement, maintain, and train with this system.
4. If at all possible get a real gun, air guns are not optimal home defense tools, but will work if the real thing isn't available.
5. The right air rifle is pretty expensive. You have to have hand pump, a scuba tank (at least one) and the hoses and fittings to fill the rifle's reservoir. These are not included in the price of the rifle usually. This makes the use of the air rifle more complicated, so this means training is very vital.

I would agree with this.  Personally I would still choose a melee weapon with a high lethality probability to accompany a single shot air gun or firearm.  I've shot enough critters and humans to know that the "Hollywood one shot kill" is pretty rare in real life.

You're right that we haven't heard from the OP since starting this thread, and I have no other points to raise.
Nate
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Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 12:16:50 AM »
Flippy and Joe,
   Thanks for replying to the information I posted.
Joe, two things, you are right, just about any air rifle worth using, is freakin expensive and I would not like to be in the situation of having to use that. I know I wouldn't like it because I am in the situation where if I want a reliable projectile weapon, its going to be an ari rifle of some sort. And how did you do the beating a dead horse emoticon? That sir is fantastic! I want one.
      Flippy,
      Thanks for refering to my actual statements even though you disagree. Cold steel makes some great clubs for meelee attacks. The gunstock club is scary looking. There is another one with a ball on the end with a metal striking point. Though they are big and hard to use in close quarters, with the right training or luck, they would absolutely ruin someone's day. I may get one of those myself to go along with my sam yang or rogue when I get one. Heck at that price, I may get one before that.
   I certainly hope the OP comes back to see all the trouble he caused and hopefully all the good advice we put out there.
   
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 12:58:01 AM »
Blademan,

No worries.  If it seemed like I wasn't responding to your comments directly in previous posts, it wasn't because I was trying to be arrogantly oppositional.  I sometimes take for granted what I "know" from experience, that others typically haven't been through.  It comes off dismissive without refuting the argument.  My wife has worked with me on this social "stand-offish-ness".  For that I would like to apologize.

When anyone talks about how they're going to shoot someone dead with one shot, I immediately have my doubts about their combat planning.  Especially when one must factor in adrenaline, confusion, darkness, violence, shot placement and all the other factors that will determine if they will actually hit the intruder when it counts.  That's not even taking into consideration that they may hit the goon and still not put him down.  If compared to a 5.56 NATO round, I would guess that there isn't an air rifle on the market that could compare to the ballistics.  That said, I've seen guys take multiple hits from an M4 that didn't even know they were hit.  Many of those hits were in vitals.  They kept fighting.  That's the explanation I probably should have used before.  Sorry if I came off as an arrogant ass.  That was not my intent.

To do the dead horse emoticon, look at your list of smileys.  Below that there is a link that says:  [more]
Click that link and it will open a box with lots of smileys that aren't available on the reply toolbar.

Hope that helps.
Nate
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— Ragnar Danneskjöld, from Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)


Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2012, 01:49:56 AM »
Flippy,
   Its cool, I have the same problem. Its a hard one to overcome. I had a friend of a simar mindset explain it like this once,"people think I'm too smart for my own good, and may be they are right but I also think they are not smart enough for their own good and I think that is worse." So, don't let it bother you too much. I don't.
   
     Yeah, I'm not a big fan of trusting in one shot stops either. That being said, extremes are not the norm and sometime we can overthink or dismiss a perfecrly workable solution to a problem because we are rightly worried about an unlikely eventuality.
   
    And to get back to the better use of airguns, someone asked about a good choice for small game hunting/pest control. There are so many really good ones that its hard to pick.
   If quiet is really what you want, the EDgun comes to mind and there is a guy who has devoted some serious youtube time to demonstrating its utility.
    Its a russian import and a bit pricey and kind of a specialty case because its a bullpup form factor which is good for some people and freaks some people out.
There is the benjamin marauder which is on the low end of price for a repeating pcp gun and comes in .22 or .25, which is said to be the ideal caliber for small game air hunting.
The crossman nitropiston rifles are pretty good from what I have heard and are ready to shoot out of the box pretty much with out having to buy anything besides pellets.
They are pretty easy on the pocket book too.
  Here's the caddilac though, in price and function: the fx verminator extreme
 I know it sounds silly, but this thing is crazy useful. Comes in .22 or .25. Has long and carbine interchangable barrels that change without tools. Also has a small barrel that shoots an archery arrow like a crossbow. It also has a reel attachment that allows the arrow to be used for fishing. I don't know all the ballistics on it so I can tell you how big an animal you could take with it, but any north american rodent, small predator or spear fishable fish should all be achievable.
Its a pcp air rifle and I think its more expensive than the rogue.
   There are a lot of options, go look up airgun hunters quarterly, information abounds there. Hope this helps.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline armymars

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2012, 11:50:16 AM »
I have a Quckinbush in 36 cal. It will shoot a 125 gr. bullet (lee cast for 36 cap and ball revolver ) at 635 fps. A little slower when I use Argon instead of compressed air for the gas. The Argon is a little more accurate then the air. At 25 yards it will put 3 bullets in the same hole. At 50 yards I'm lucky to get 3" groups. The energy is about equal to the factory 38 S/W, not the faster 38 special. This would make the gun a bit light for stopping power, but not unusable.  Good luck.

Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2012, 10:45:33 PM »
Armymars,
   Wow, pretty lucky to have a quackenbush. I hear they are hard to come by. I'm not familiar with that model, so I don't know the configuration but if you are looking for a little more power, the benjamin rogue has six shots bolt action of 175 gr .357 @ over 800 fps for about 250 fpe. People have taken red hartbeest with them though the manufacture says that its not intended for game larger than a 200 lbs. That's at hunting ranges though. At HD ranges, its going to have a lot more power. Its a long beast though, so if relying on it tactically, you would have to train like crazy to be able to manuver it.
    So, how does the QB shoot, I hear he has a very good rep among airgunners.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline armymars

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2012, 11:23:19 AM »
Good morning blademan,
       I have one of nine rifles made in this cal.  The rifling is a gain twist and only .001 deep. I was stripping out the round balls and getting 4" groups at 50 yrds. I switched to the Lee bullet for more baring surface. I then cast them hard. That's when I put 3 shots into the same hole. I mean the same hole. It looks like 1 shot. I had two witnesses sign the target.  When I sludged the barrel it felt like both ends where tight and the middle a little larger. Some day I'm going to take my mold and turn it into a hollow base. The grove is suppose to be .375" Which is my molds dia. I really need a 376 or 377 mold. The hollow base is the easiest for me to do on my lathe.  73

Offline Dawgmen

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 07:52:26 PM »
I modified my airgun to a more tactical use and it has good penetration and if ur airgun can go through 1/4 in of pine it is lethal according to ballistic testing but if u want something cheap and lethal right out of the box a self defense crossbow is a good choice..

Offline glhallway

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2013, 03:47:57 PM »
Howdy

I just joined this thread today after reading this.  To the point of the question yes an Airgun can be deadly.  It sounds like the gunsmith is confusing Air rifles with BB guns there is a major difference.  Even the low cost Beeman RS2 or Crossman .22 have an unbelievable knock down power.  I got a Sportsman RX2 just for target shooting and critter controll it will penetrate a steel skillet at 50 feet.  I use the Crossman Premier .22 hollow point hunting pellets and this break barrel cheapo (100 bucks) will drop a Coyote.  At 800 fps and about 17grains at close range it can be deadly or at least be a stopper.

It is single cock break barrel and I can shoot reload and shoot again in 5 to 6 seconds it took practice like any thing.  In short if confronted by someone in my house and it was the closest thing I would use it and Pitt the person on the other end. By the way it always has a pellet in the chamber.

Offline Meldrew

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2013, 12:35:41 AM »
I own 6 airguns and love them all.  That said, a refresher on muzzle energy (FPE) would help this discussion a lot. You'll come down to the same conclusion stated in the very first reply - don't bluff and don't count on your Walmart airgun (or any other really) for self defense.   Do the math.


Offline flippydidit

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2013, 01:14:25 AM »
I own 6 airguns and love them all.  That said, a refresher on muzzle energy (FPE) would help this discussion a lot. You'll come down to the same conclusion stated in the very first reply - don't bluff and don't count on your Walmart airgun (or any other really) for self defense.   Do the math.

Thank you.  I'm not confusing an airgun with an air rifle.  They are both BAD choices for self-defense.  When you can shoot an attacker 5 or more times with a handgun and not stop him, what do you think your pellet is going to do?  Have you ever shot someone?  I have.  It ain't Hollywood.
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Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2013, 07:03:33 PM »
Yes yes yes,
   Airguns instead of real guns when real guns are available is dumb. Bluffing with any weapon is dumb.
  The right air rifle (at least a 357 with at least 700 fps or more preferably more and multishot capacity) in the absense of a real gun is better than a bow even a crossbow. If you are worried about someone not going down with 5 shots with the appropriate handgun using the appropriate ammo, then you might as well not worry about defending your self with a baseball bat or a car or a crossbow, or a knife, a slingshot or a karate chop or a kick or punxh. Give up and die because you are not willing to consider something other than a gun which is the purpose of the OPs question. No gun, not available.
  I'm talking about some air rifles, (these are not available at wal-mart) with similar ballistics to a 45 or 44 mag handgun. If that's not good enough to stand in, put your other weapons down and pick up a t-shirt and put it on a stick and wave it around and hope for the best.
 I'm being a little bit sarcastic here. Not a lot. If you don't have the best technology available to defend yourself, you have to make do with what you have or submit to captivity or death. No other options except hoping you aren't picked on. I don't like that option.
  If you don't have the option of the highest level of technology that is both the most likely to be brought to bear against you and you are reasonably able to expect to be able to defend yourself successfully in kind, then you need to select something that is the most like that technology and suplement it with other methods and tools and up your tactics and strategy. Improvise, adapt and kill the bad guy before he kills you with whatever you have to use to do it, if its a bung wrench, or a bazooka, kill the bad guy. Plan and equip to the highest level you can. Do whatever you can reasonably do and are comfortable with to have the highest level of technology you can for your security and defense. If you are not to consider how to deal with less than optimal situations and equipment, then when that situation is forced on you, you will cry and give up and die. I'm not saying to back up your real guns with air guns. I'm not saying that air guns are the best choice. I'm not even saying they are a good choice. They are a horrible choice when compare to a firearm in every way. Take firearms out of this picture for a moment and realize and admit that these things really aren't "pellet rifles" in the sense that a .177 caliber pellet rifle is and that in many cases, these things are shooting bullets and that firearm bullets of the same caliber can be fired out of them, then compared to a weedeater, sharp stick, karate chop, sling shot, angry weasel, even an upset pit bull, baseball bat, baton, pepper spray or taser, or punch or what have you that isn't a lethal projectile, the firearm comprable air arm is superior. It is on level and a notch above bows and cross bows because of configuration, speed and ease of use. This is of course just my opinion, but I formed it with things like math, logic and reason and the parameters of the original question. Yes air guns suck, I agree, I would not to want to use one to protect my self or feed my self if a real fire arm was available. I would rather depend on that than just about any other non projectile armament that I can think of. Airguns would and do suck in everyway when compared to a real gun, but they shine when compared to just about anything else. They are called air "guns" for a reason, in the right configuration, they are guns, they will kill, bad guy or animal, hit what you are aiming at, and you will more than likely get the results you are looking for, just like with a real gun, more than likely, not always, not every time. It would work if guns are not available. 
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline Scottman

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2013, 12:28:34 PM »
Cold steel 's DVD never unarmed shows/talks about airguns for defense....

Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2013, 03:19:55 PM »
Scottman,
    Thanks for the reference, I had not heard of that, I will have to look into it. Its better than bare hands in a lot of situations. Not a magic bullet, but it is a bullet. And just to be fair, if for some reason "firearms" in a legal sense are verboten, black powder weapons are sometimes not classified as such and in many ways a large or medium caliber black powder revolver in home defense ranges or a blackpowder shotgun for a one on one scenario would probably work spectacularly. Could also fail spectactularly if you are slow or unprepared with it. Just like anything else. Of course this would probably fall under the "I'm scared of that and don't want it in my house" category for people squeamish about boomsticks.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline Scottman

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2013, 04:36:31 PM »
They were demonstrating "small game airguns" hits to the eye.... other friendlies moved in on the man quickly with other missile weapons, melee weapons.

Offline armymars

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2013, 08:22:32 AM »
  I would hate to be hit with my 58 cal Navy Arms black power gun or for that mater a 58 cal air gun at 850 fps to 1200 fps. Ouch!

Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 11:08:10 AM »
Not just ouch, dirt nap time. Hope you're sleepy. Firearms are a recent technology and modern firearms are even more recent. Its tactics, strategy and mindset that allow whatever weapon you are using carry the day and sometimes you loose anyway. Its always the best plan to have the best technology. Sometimes you have to use tactica and strategy to compensate for inferior equipment.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline nelson96

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 06:50:22 PM »
I wonder if this would turn tail on someone?. . .



Full Auto Air Rifle:
Evanix GTL480 select-fire airgun.  Designed for the customers who would prefer an air rifle with a military style look.  It has a fixed 480cc 2900 psi composite cylinder and shoots over 1,100fps.  It is available in both .22 and .25 caliber, and fires from a single 15 shot (12 for .25cal) magazine, or a 30 shot (24 for .25cal) dual magazine.  The stock is made of Aluminum with adjustable cheek piece, and it is an accurate, powerful, reliable semi/full auto system with an electric trigger.

Specifications:
Action - Pre-charged pneumatic, Semi-full auto
Air capacity - 480cc
Caliber/Energy - 0.22"-> 58 joules, 0.25”>80 joules
Barrel Length - 17"
Overall Length - 36"
Magazine capacity - 15,30 (.22) / 12,24 (.25)
Barrel - Rifled
Trigger - Two-stage non-adjustable
Safety - Manual
Max.Fill pressure - 3,190 p.s.i (220 bar)
Max Shots Per Fill - 60
Weight - 8.6 lbs.

.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 07:12:18 PM by nelson96 »
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Offline soupbone

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 09:00:41 PM »
80 joules is approximately 59 ft/lbs of energy - about the same as a .22 short from a handgun. Pellets are somewhat lighter than bullets, so you wouldn't get the penetration. Also, air gun pellets are designed to be sub-sonic. Driving one at 1100 fps (+/-) puts it into the just supersonic range with an increase in aerodynamic drag and a resultant loss of accuracy as the pellet quickly slows through the transonic range.

Would it be effective? Don't forget that for much of the last half of the 19th century, folks often carried a .22 short (black powder loaded) revolver, pepperbox or derringer for defense. I don't know if they felt well armed, but they must have felt adequately armed, or they would have carried something else.

Would this be a first choice? Not at all, but a burst in the face at close range could be decisive, as each pellet would pack at close range the same energy as a shotgun pellet, say a #4, would at 20 or so yards.

soupbone

PS:  Joule to foot-pound Conversion Calculator can be found here: http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-foot-pounds-conversion.html /s/
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Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 10:08:51 PM »
Wow, that's a new evanix. I haven't seen this one. I so want one. I just hate the limited air capacity. 60 shots is more than enough for warding off an only moderately determined agressor. But with full auto, it gets expensive for having fun with. Ammo is fairly cheap, but air either has to come from a hand pump or a scuba tank that you have to pay to have filled. It would be neat if you could rig a way to line feed it from a back mounted tank or tanks as you are shooting. Super cool air iron though.
 
 And yes there is some accuracy lost in the sonic transitions, but perhaps a specially designed pellet that is boat tailed and perhaps hollow based would reduce this some. I'm not a big fan of the .22 or .25 cals for defensive purposes, I would rather go bigger and slower, but this makes up for it some in the rate of fire. I have seen a tommy gun based home brew air gun that ws in different calibers from .32 to .45 that was full auto and powerful.
    Even in a perfect world, less than ideal. Not to be overlooked or dismissed derisivel for a sling shot, but still less than ideal.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline soupbone

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2013, 12:17:43 PM »
For what it's worth, blademan, I was once stationed at a small, kind of remote Air Force Station - a big industrial plant, really - with the nearest range facilities a couple of hours away. We had Crossman "38 revolvers" and target rifles for "training", getting the rust out, correcting bad habits, etc. Instead of the CO2 bottles normally used, we had a gizmo that allowed the guns to be fed by a larger, fire extinguisher sized tank. Movement was limited by the length of the hose, but that wasn't really an issue.

I often wonder how effective something like this would be in convincing someone to just go away:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSDJzukAtOq5yyfVXwXxyelkIhyacgWEDxb7WCcIzf-JYvFw5yZyw

http://www.shootingstargames.com/

Careful, though, you might shoot someone's eye out.......

soupbone

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Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2013, 05:45:59 PM »
Wow. That's pretty neat. Looks a little like the Casleman .30 cal full auto airgun. How dissuading something like that would be would depend entirely on how committed they were, how desperate, and how many of them among some other factors. There's a thread about a paintball marker being used in this capacity and that was a pretty interesting discussion. The reason I participate in discussions like this is because there are a lot of good people out there that may find themselves in exactly this situation for a variety of reasons regardless of someone's current situation and what you foresee in the future, keeping your mental options open and thinking about how to do things differentlly than you do now makes it easier to switch gears. Hopefully of someone ever found themselves having to use a pneumatic solution and won, they would then be able to upgrade their defense after their victory.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2013, 06:00:31 PM »
My comment was in reference to soup's links. Then scotman posted exactly what I was talking about. With current technology and a few tweaks, the caselman would make a really awesome pellet thrower. I'm thinking of a larger tank, a helical mag and upping the cal to .50. With the right ammount of money, and materials, you could get really good performance out of this design. (Sneaks quietly away to the drawing board with a slightly evil smirk on his face.)
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline Scottman

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2013, 06:05:03 PM »
It's pretty hard to control scrap lead and air. Even ramsets seem available in Great Britain.

Offline soupbone

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2013, 07:19:20 PM »
"...keeping your mental options open and thinking about how to do things differentlly than you do now..."

Blademan, I think you just hit the bedrock level of this thread. Thinking outside the box, or shifting paradigms, or whatever you want to call it, is the key to future existance, i.e., our survival in an uncertain environment. Certainly no one, including the OP, is not suggesting an airgun as a first choice, but it can be used effectively in certain situations, given the right gun and the right conditions. I, for one, am enjoying this thread, and learning quite a bit more about airguns.

soup
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Offline blademan

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Re: Are airguns any good for self defense? real or psychological?
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2013, 12:33:41 AM »
Soupy,
   
   Thanks for understanding what I am talking about instead of trying to beat me over the head with stuff I am not talking about. Have you read the entire thread? Its pretty interesting at some points and pretty amusing at others. I leave it to you to decide which parts are which.
     
   Incidentally, have you heard of zello? www.zello.com
If you haven't, go check it out and see what you think. Tsp has a channel there. The survival podcast network. I also have my own channel there. Its called the airgun discussion group. Not much is going on in my channel usually, but when I'm available I like to talk to others about air powered stuff. If you feel so inclined, create an account and stop by.
   
   I too am enjoying this thread. I really liked the evanix posted below, its a beast I just wish it didn't cost so much.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.