Author Topic: What do you consider long range shooting  (Read 12963 times)

Offline Nacinator

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What do you consider long range shooting
« on: May 06, 2012, 10:11:27 AM »
When you do your range training with your bolt guns how far do you shoot the rifle and made accurate hits on a mansized target ( 18inches wide and 24 inches long) .

What is the max range you shoot your 30 round wonders!! again only accurate hits on a mansized targets.

please in response place caliber then range.  ( .556X45 to 300 meters )

I am curious as I see many people shooting at a local range not past 100 meters mostly 50 meters and closer.

Thanks

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Offline technicalanarchy

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2012, 11:12:58 AM »
I would say over 200 yards is long range. But even at that (numbers are off here but close) a hit at 50 yards in the 9 ring wont be on paper at 200.

Ive read that the military want some squad members to be able to engage between 300 and 600 yards not quite sniper but over ths capabilities of most of thier forces.

Offline rustyknife

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2012, 12:29:35 PM »
I have three weapons that I shoot long range.

30-06 at 800 yds
7.62x39 at 300 yds
22LR at 150 yds

For hunting purposes 400 yd shot around here is average distance. I like to use orange colored clay birds as targets. I have some places out in the woods that I go since I found it hard to seriously practice with other shooters around.

Offline Ronin4hire

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 12:40:19 PM »
Used to be quite comfortable engaging steel body targets with my old AR at 400m with peep site(had 20bbl length)
Current is a shorty M4 (11.5bbl&"fixed" flash hider=16") so I wouldnt bother over 200m
AK can do the 200s but never attempted further, lame standard site picture makes it questionable
The P17? civilian-ized 06 boltgun is zerod to 150 but tested/charted to 400 for drop compensation with M2ball
Had done 1000m on steel with it years ago but never practiced sufficiently at distance
With regular practice, Id be comfortable with it out to 800-1000m  possibly further with nice loads
I doubt my skill far more than the rifle/rounds capability at such distance
Also- most gun ranges in this area lack distance capability beyond 200yds (darn hills)

Offline TexasGirl

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2012, 01:16:47 PM »
Well, I'm just a country girl that shoots snakes, possums, coyotes, and hogs.  We don't do long range in the woods.  But every now and then get to mosey over to the range, or a friends place. 

Longest range silou shot?  It was fun, but not mine.  M107A2 (.50 1,100m)  That was the extent of his range, and the target went "poof" when you hit it.  Wasn't easy, either!

I'd want one, ifin it wasn't so hard on my shoulder and pocketbook.  Yeah, it was a power trip.

Girl's get all the fun.

~TG

P.S.  I'd have to find some brazen hulk to carry the thing around if I did ever own one, it felt like 40 pounds!

Offline SheepdogSurvival

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2012, 02:09:47 PM »
I'd say anything over 300m is entering 'long range' classification. We used to shoot out to 500m meters with our m16's in the Marines but the method we used didn't seem to translate well off the KD range. I shoot out to 300 yards with a .308win all the time and it's still not too hard to achieve hits out to 500yrds even using a 1-4 optic and a 2MOA m14.

But the reasons I think that 300 is the cut off are that most carbine class weapons IE AKs/ARs on irons or x1 optics are pretty effective to that range, and the environmental conditions really start to play a larger role past 300m. There is a reason that SF operators with shorty ARs are still effective to 600m+, it's because they know their holds and how the conditions effect their shots.

Offline soupbone

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2012, 05:03:49 PM »
IMHO, long range is anything over the effective range of the firearm; you can't really put a distance on it because it changes with the circumstances. By effective range, I mean the range at which an average shot can hit the target 50% of the time. In the military, this means a standard silhouette or bulls-eye target.

For a standard M-16, the effective range of the rifle on the range is something like 500 yards; with pop-ups or in a serious social situation, this drops to about 200 yards, +/-. A similar situation exists for hunting rifles - you may be pretty good on the range at 600 yds. - able to keep your shots in the kill zone - but how well can you do after sneaking up what feels like Mt. McKinley on a cold, rainy day?

Once you understand ballistics, learn how to dope the wind and start getting hits on target, shooting beyond the effective range of your rifle is quite a rewarding experience regardless of whether that rifle is a .22LR, or a 1,000 yard Palma Match gun.

soupbone

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2012, 05:35:19 PM »
For me it depends on the context.  Hunting antelope in Wyoming where my bullet has to land within about an 8" circle, 300-350 yards is a long shot with my .270, especially since I'm usually bucking serious winds. 

For man-sized targets, I guess I'd never see a reason to shoot beyond 100 yards.  Anything beyond 40 yards is going to be very difficult to explain to a jury why I didn't just run away.  Most of my range time is between 40-100 yards with rifles, 7-15 yards for handguns.  Occasionally I'll take it out to 300+, but it's not something I spend much time doing.  It's hard enough for me to get the range time I need to keep my skills where I want them on the handgun.

Offline rustyknife

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2012, 07:49:20 PM »
IMHO, long range is anything over the effective range of the firearm; you can't really put a distance on it because it changes with the circumstances. By effective range, I mean the range at which an average shot can hit the target 50% of the time. In the military, this means a standard silhouette or bulls-eye target.

For a standard M-16, the effective range of the rifle on the range is something like 500 yards; with pop-ups or in a serious social situation, this drops to about 200 yards, +/-. A similar situation exists for hunting rifles - you may be pretty good on the range at 600 yds. - able to keep your shots in the kill zone - but how well can you do after sneaking up what feels like Mt. McKinley on a cold, rainy day?

Once you understand ballistics, learn how to dope the wind and start getting hits on target, shooting beyond the effective range of your rifle is quite a rewarding experience regardless of whether that rifle is a .22LR, or a 1,000 yard Palma Match gun.

soupbone

Add in a little buck fever, awkward position, up hill, down hill, low light or darkness and someone shooting back and things get real interesting real fast. :o

Offline rustyknife

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 07:53:58 PM »
Sorry soupbone...not sure how I got that inside your quote.

Offline ChrisFox

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2012, 08:06:36 PM »
For me it's anything around 275 meters. I hunt with 6.5x55 and that's the max distance I'll shoot at something. And it's got to be last day of the season with me not shooting anything else that year to take a chance at those ranges.

Offline USMCAllen

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2012, 11:37:25 PM »
I have an advantage here :) I get to train regularly at 2, 3, and 500 yards with a 5.56 rifle. M4 or m16 doesn't matter.

My longest shot that I have trained on is 1150 yards. That was done with a 7.62. Long shots are a fun thing to take but also very difficult.

I would hope that I never have to take that long of a shot to feed my family

Offline RPZ

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2012, 02:02:59 AM »
I share the opinion of the late Col. Cooper, that anything over 200 yards is a "long shot". The plain fact is that most people have a hard time learning to shooting well, consistantly, on demand, at longer ranges. Quite a few at ranges far less than that.

But as a general guide in the context of cartridge classes I would put rimfires at somewhere around 100 yards, smallbore cenetrfires out to about 300 yards (including "carbines" and shorts like the 7.62x39 class, 30-30s etc), and medium bores to about 400 yards, perhaps 500 or 600 for the flatter shooting 6mm etc.

Range estimation is very difficult for many people, and is one of the greater problems with even intermediate distances.

My strongest recommendation for any and every rifle shooter is Col. Cooper's "The Art of the Rifle" as a solid foundation to build on.

In the hunting context in consideration of the quarry it is somewhat irresponsible to shoot at much longer ranges. The reason being that in addition to the variables beyond the control of the shooter (wind gusts etc), in the time it takes the bullet to travel to the target a game animal can move - not only perhaps resulting in a complete miss, but possibly a wound leading to a slow and miserable death.

The art of hunting is getting close to your quarry, stalking; not in shooting at longer distances. Save the long distance stunts for inert targets.

endurance

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2012, 08:50:47 AM »
The art of hunting is getting close to your quarry, stalking; not in shooting at longer distances. Save the long distance stunts for inert targets.
It depends on what you're hunting.  Last year I had a deer within 20' of me and took my shot after it spooked at under 40 yards, but it's hard to get within a friggin' mile of antelope in Wyoming.  Most skittish animals I've ever hunted and in their native habitat, it's a bit tricky for a 5'11" bloke to hide behind a sagebrush.   ;)

In 2010 I got lucky and had one run to me after it got spooked by another hunter, but otherwise, it's all 200+ yard shots on the squirrelly little pucks.

Offline hillclimber

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 01:44:49 PM »
All but two of the whitetails I've ever shot were taken inside 100yds, most inside 50yds.
However, I won't keep a scoped rifle if it isn't capable of punching holes in a pieplate @ 300yds.
I've found that most good quality bolt guns are up to it, as long as they have a good scope, good ammo, favorable winds and I do my part. MBRs are another thing altogether...
Both my "service rifles" will pass that test with iron sights, but we are talking about heavy barreled match guns there too. My old Bushmaster A1 carbine will consistently hit a silhouette at 250-300yds.
I really want to try some long shots with my AK74, but I haven't had the chance yet.

Offline RPZ

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2012, 08:37:04 AM »
Endurance,

Never hunted them - but I'd like to. I would agree they are usually going to be encountered at the longer distances. I have seen recorded accounts by hunters who have gotten them into the 200 mark by careful and tedious stalking. Not neccessarily first time around - but that is what hunting should be about. The chase - not the kill.


Offline Donulld

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2012, 07:49:52 AM »
5.56 in a 16" carbine - Out to 300 yards
5.56 in a 20" bolt gun - Out to 500 yards
.308 in a bolt gun - Out to 1000 yards

endurance

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2012, 03:10:09 PM »
Endurance,

Never hunted them - but I'd like to.
Shoot me a PM in February and if you can make it out to Wyoming, I'll direct you around where I've been going the last few years.  $48 for reduced doe tags in the area we hunt, but you have to apply in February-March and the hunt isn't until September.  Still, if you go early in the season the weather is beautiful, the animals aren't scared out of their minds, and it's a great way to spend a fall weekend. 

It's definitely an event that I've put on my calendar every year now... and those long-shot, high-wind skills that you never thought you'd need on a live animal can come in very handy indeed.

Offline Nacinator

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2012, 03:06:58 PM »
Thanks for the responces here is what I am working with now

5.56x45 AR-15 with a 4x32 ACOG 400 meters

308 Savage FP10HS with a Falcon Menace 4x14 FFP scope. 600 meters

Reload for both the savage loves 178 Amax over 44 grns of varget

Nacinator Out

Offline soupbone

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 04:05:13 PM »
Sorry soupbone...not sure how I got that inside your quote.

Thanks for your response, rustyknife, you added stuff that I was thinking, but didn't type. Let's face it, how many of us could even see a whitetail in the brush at 300 yards - that's almost 1,000 feet. And if you're talking combat, add to all the stuff you said, a camouflaged opponent as smart as you are trying very hard not to be seen.

There are so many variables in real world hunting or combat that "long range shooting" almost defies definition. Just because someone is good on the range or at a plinking session (an even better way to train, IMHO) does not mean they will be good in the field where a not so good shot can mean a wounded animal or worse.

soup

Offline charles

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2012, 06:44:39 AM »
5.56 M4 - 500M
M14         700M

Offline Duc1

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »
All 100 meters or less.  I don't have easy access to a larger range or tract of land to stretch it further.  So I guess I don't practice long range shooting.  I'm looking to by some land here in Kansas so I hope to have my own range in the next few years.

Offline Jack Crabb

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 11:11:39 AM »
For rifles, one could approach it from a point blank zero view. For example, study the trajectory/ballistics chart for the load you want to shoot. With a little figuring, you may find that your load can be sighted to be one inch below point of aim at 100 yards. It will then be two inches high at 200 yards, spot on at 300 yards, 4 inches low at 400 yards, 7 inches low at 500, etc.

So, as the one post mentioned, to hit an 8" circle, just aim to the center, and all hits will be within the 8" diameter circle out to 400 yards - theoretically.

Shots beyond 400 yards would then become "long range" because adjustments must be made to point of aim to compensate for the distance. For example, a center aim at 500 yards puts the impact 7 inches low and out of the 8" circle. So, aim to the top of the circle and hits will fall into the circle somewhere.

Similarly, the ballistics chart should show lateral drift at different distances and wind conditions. How far can the bullet travel at the highest likely winds and not drift more than 4"? Anything beyond that distance becomes "long range" because of the required windage adjustments.

Offline trekker111

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 09:57:36 AM »
I generally don't shoot my 14.5 inch barreled AR15 past 200 yards, but have shot out to 300. I have an eo-tech on it. In Army basic training we had to fire our m-16 out to 300 meters and hit a silhouette with iron sights to pass.

A practice regularly (quarterly) out to 600 yards with the remington 700pss 308 win i am issued, and occassionally out to and beyond 1000 yards (semi-annually). That rifle groups at under 10 inches at 1000 yards with the issued ammo, hornady TAP, 168 gr a-max. The problem at those ranges is seeing the target well enough to have a repeatable point of aim. The scope on this rifle is a leupold vari-x mark III tactical 3.5-10x42. At 10x power at 100 yards, on a target with a small, well defined aiming point, I can shoot 3 round groups which can be covered with a dimze, when I take my time and beat the fundamentals to death. Theoretically this rifle is capable of delivering roughly 4 inch groups at 1000 yards, but i am unable to do so because of not being able to aim at a precise repeatable aiming point.

Shooting a 5.56 for groups with an optic that covers 2 inches of your target at 200 yards, and has no magnification is an exercise in futility, imo. A rarely practice past 300 yards with any of my personally owned rifles. And most of my rounds fired in the issued rifle is geared more towards precise headshots at 200 yards or less and headshots through glass, windshields, on moving targets, at steep angles, in bad weather, etc.

Offline joeinwv

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Re: What do you consider long range shooting
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 11:41:23 AM »
I site in hunting rifles 1" high at 100yds. The local range is 250 max. I just don't have the land / opportunity to shoot past 300 yards often.