Author Topic: Why bleed your kill?  (Read 6719 times)

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Why bleed your kill?
« on: May 22, 2012, 02:16:57 PM »
Hey all.  There's something I've been wondering for a while, and my internet searches have turned up nothing as of yet.

Why do people bleed deer and other game?  I've found directions on how, and I've seen hints that suggest that the meat may spoil more quickly if you do not.  Is it not safe to eat an animal that does not bleed out?

I know there are religious reasons to do so, but what other reasons are out there?

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 02:26:37 PM »
I don't know - but I can tell you that when I first butchered chickens I didn't bleed them out right, and my meat was blue - I thought I could still use it, but it has gross coagulated blood throughout - so I'd say it's because of the yuck factor...

Offline CrunchDog

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 03:09:30 PM »
I was always under the impression that it made the meat better for cooking like the first response stated. Also that it removes impurities in the meat. That could just be hokum.


Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 03:34:42 PM »
Thank you both.

Well, better for cooking is always good.  I hope someone can help me find some additional info.

Offline BillyS

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 07:39:56 PM »
Blood deteriorates, or rots, much more quickly than muscle. You can collect the blood and use it if you like, but you have to use it much faster than you would use the meat. Otherwise, you have the blood rotting in the vessels inside your meat. It's maybe not dangerous if it gets cold fast enough, I don't know.

But even if it wasn't, there certainly would be a major yuck factor eating a meat balloon full of congealed blood...

I saw this thing once where a street vendor in Vietnam was selling "duck blood soup" where essentially he took live birds and hung them upside down over a heated cauldron and cut off their heads. The blood went into the pot, and the bird was handed off to a boy to gut, pluck, and prepare for sale. The "soup" had vegetables and giblets in it, but was mostly blood.

That's really gross, but even then they were careful to bleed the kill before selling the meat.
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Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 09:36:47 PM »
Interesting.  So meat with blood in it does spoil, and besides the yuck factor, it's less safe to eat.

Thank you.

Do you know if parasites are more or less likely to be in blood than the rest of the meat?

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 09:41:51 PM »
Josh, I have to say, THANK YOU for asking questions like this.  it would never occur to me to ask, but I am curious, now that you mention it, and I have a learned a lot from it.  so +1
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Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 09:44:24 PM »
^_^ You're quite welcome Sunshine!  Hopefully we can both learn from our fellow forum members together.

Offline TexGuy

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 09:54:47 PM »
You do not (most of the time) need to bleed animals today. Bleeding out use to be the way to kill them. Cut the throat, hang it to bleed and it dies. BillyS is correct that blood rots faster and you didn't want it in hanging meats (use to most meats were aged to break down tendons and muscle). If you use a correct rifle on a deer today it will "bleed out" enough just from the shot. Bleed it if you use a .22 or an arrow.

Why Melodee's chicken didn't bleed out I don't know. Ringing the neck, and even chopping it off ... you let the chicken flop for 5 minutes it normally bleeds out. So Melodee, how did you kill your chickens?  ???

If you are going to age the meat by hanging it a while make sure any free blood can drip out of the hanging meat and do it ASAP.

If the animal is field dressed within 30 mins it's should be considered bleed out.

Offline BillyS

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 10:33:29 PM »
I would venture to guess that a lot of our animal cleaning and cooking requirements come from way back in the day before they understood germs, parasites, or sanitation.

Look at swine, for example. Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam all eschew swine. I wonder why that is?

It's hard for me to accept that God singled out certain animals to be avoided, even feared. Especially if He created them all...

But if you've ever seen what Trichinosis can do to a man, or what sorts of poisons improperly prepared shellfish can unleash... If you were a church elder and having to deal with death and twisting torture, you might recommend everyone stay away from pigs and shrimp too. Especially if you didn't know why or how it woulf go wrong.

If you knew that blood caused trouble, you might recommend, even require, that all kills are bled properly before they are consumed.
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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 11:19:42 PM »

Why Melodee's chicken didn't bleed out I don't know. Ringing the neck, and even chopping it off ... you let the chicken flop for 5 minutes it normally bleeds out. So Melodee, how did you kill your chickens?  ???


I was young and stupid (20 yrs ago), and thought that all I had to do was wring the neck, and then get to the plucking.  I didn't know you had to heat the water - so by the time I did all that, with them just laying on the ground... well - it was a disaster :-(  Thank goodness I only did two...

Next time, I went to a pro and learned how to do it right!

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 01:11:20 AM »
Okay, I wrote up a big post, and once I looked over it, I realize it might seem preachy, or give what's already common knowledge.  If that's the case, please pardon me.  I'm simply trying to relate my present understanding of the subject, in case someone finds it useful.

-----

Well first of all, it's not just pork.  The class of land animals judged safe to eat were those ruminants (animals that chew the cud) with cloven hooves.  This kept the Israelites away from not only trichinosis in pigs, but also the parasites in canines, felines, rats, and so forth.  Keep in mind that trichinosis can also be found in rodents.

There are many kinds of codes that were instituted for the Isrealites to follow.  Some of these were designed specifically to protect the Isrealites from harm.  The book of Leviticus contains taboos, bans, and instructions that helped prevent everything from a city-wide plague of black mold or leprosy, to individual families dieing of parasites or food poisoning.  Psalms contains many wise sayings, including instructions on debt that many people should listen to more closely today.

Keep in mind that many of these rules were set up when the Isrealites were a slave people who had been separated from the proper worship of their God, and their freedom and responsibilities for their lives, a people who were also living near, in, and among those who had detestable practices.  Many of these laws were to provide constraints on a people who still needed to mature, and who often rebelled, not understanding the strictures for them.  I view these rules much as ones set down for a young child.  “Don't touch the stove, it's hot”.  Of course when we learn how to use the stove it's safe, but the child still needs to be told.

The two greatest laws are as follows:
Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Love your neighbor as yourself.

On these hang all the law and all the profits.
How does that apply to the ban on pork?  God loves us, and wants us to be happy, healthy, loving people, and I'm pretty sure it pains him to see his children dieing of food-born contagion.

One challenge is understanding which laws are protective laws that we now no longer need due to advances in understanding (such as the child that knows how to safely use the stove).  Once identified, these laws fall under understanding and avoiding dangers in general.    So long as I keep myself from food born contagion, I am following the spirit of the law, rather than being overly legalistic.  Avoiding good food put into the world by God, once I can safely utilize that food is to avoid experiencing his glory.  In fact, if I recall correctly, the ancient Jews had a saying.  He who finds a new fruit of God's creation before him, and fails to try it will answer to God.

Over time, knowledge of how to safely consume several animals was gained, and so the ban on many kinds of animals was no longer necessary, though in many cases still a good idea.  In Christendom the prohibition was lifted as a way to point to a larger truth (about not calling gentile brothers in Christ unclean, or less than Jews who had found Christ).

I have been wondering about the prohibition of meat with blood on it, and figured that until I better understood it, I would follow the prohibition as best I could, like a child not wanting to touch the stove until he knows how to do so safely.

I now understand the prohibition against eating meat with blood in it, and have also found out that only part of the red coloration of rare meat and it's juices is blood, and that this is only the tiniest bits left in the capillaries.  Much of the coloration comes from other parts of the meat.  Further, such an instruction seems obviously related to properly bleeding an animal, rather than leaving the blood in it.

As such, I no longer feel a need to avoid rare stake, and will find a new comfort point for my steaks, probably around medium, or medium rare... and I will experiment to see what, in that range, I enjoy.  I will still cook hamburgers far more thoroughly, due to the specific dangers involved in extruded meat.

I also intend to thoroughly bleed any animal that I kill when I begin to hunt, due to the ability to make the meat keep longer, thus reducing my chances of getting sick from eating bad meat.  So in the end, I come away with a refined understanding of the code, and the reasons for it, and I'm pretty sure my heavenly father, and his ancient high priests were pretty wise to give me this rule.

Offline Pathfinder

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 06:15:09 AM »
I would be hesitant to change how we butcher animals these days. IIRC, even the commercial slaughterhouses bleed the animals out before they are processed. Blood will rot faster than meat and any left in the animal taints it.

BillyS - It is only modern conjecture that the OT prohibitions on food are based on health and disease prevention. For all we know, this was to only separate the Israelites from their neighbors who did eat that stuff. The OT is silent on why. The instructions from God are clear, though, and devout Israelites then, and Jews today, try to follow the letter of God's Law.

And, Christians have no problem with any of the animals mentioned in the OT that are not kosher. As Paul said, nothing God created is unclean. More bacon for us!!  ;D
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Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 09:06:47 AM »
There were several rules to set the Isrealites aside from their neighbours, yes.

And one reason given for not eating meat with blood in it is that "the life is in it", which points to more spiritual / ritual purity reasons in that passage.

However, there are a huge number of laws in Leviticus for the people that are obviously for the day to day good of the people, and were good ideas just from a physical standpoint.  It is my understanding that Jews believe that the souls of the dead will go to Sheol, a grey, neutral afterlife where one does not see, hear, speak, or have knowledge, much like being asleep.  That most all souls are destined for this place, and that a select few will be swept up to be with God, and that most of the religious rules in the Bible are there to ensure better results and happiness (on average) for the Jewish people in this life.  Given that the food laws fall along side other laws for the good of God's people, and we have found very good reasons for them, the food laws are most likely laws for the good of God's people.

Many sects of Christianity hold that Sheol is indeed where the spirits of the dead go, to wait for the coming resurrection of the dead, and that between our death, and the second coming, no time at all will seem to pass, thus explaining how "this day" the theif on the Cross would be in heaven with Jesus.  From the conscious timeline of the theif, he died, and then will be raised up on the last day.

And yes, most of the old covenant bans do not hold on a Christian.  We are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, eating blood or meat with blood in it, and from sexual immorality.  We are under a new covenant.  However, several of the old rules, when understood, provide some very good guidelines (such as not lieing).  Many of the others are merely extensions in understanding of the two great laws, and the requirement to believe in and follow Christ, so that he shall cover our Sins before the Judgement, and have our name written in his book of life.

Some sects of Christianity, such as the Seventh Day Adventists do exhort not eating pork when "clean meats" are available, due to the health concerns involved.  However as the Seventh Day Adventists put it, it's not a salvation issue, it's a health issue, and God wants us healthy.

Offline Outdoorfury

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 09:59:57 AM »
Okay, I wrote up a big post, and once I looked over it, I realize it might seem preachy, or give what's already common knowledge.  If that's the case, please pardon me.  I'm simply trying to relate my present understanding of the subject, in case someone finds it useful.
Enjoyed your post and your perspective on it. +1
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Offline Cedar

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2012, 10:07:11 AM »
Do you know if parasites are more or less likely to be in blood than the rest of the meat?

Parasites will be in the digestive system and in the flesh over the blood. After I attended ALOT of necropsies on zoo wildlife, which is 'wild game' in a controlled situation where we give them uncontaminated feeds and medicate them, I will always freeze wild game for 30 days now and well cook it. Saw TOO many Tapeworms in the flesh which the pathologist was more than happy to show me. They look like a cyst in the meat and they are not too easy to see, even for me.

During the gutting of the deer carcass, it is possible to puncture the deer's bladder, stomach and intestines, which can spill potentially dangerous bacteria onto the meat. Like e-Coli.

With Chronic Wasting Disease, I would also prevent spinal fluid from getting on the meat. CWD is sorta related to "Mad Cow Disease" (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy). When I butcher out ungulates now (moose, elk, deer), I never cut the spine, so leave the head on and the bones intact. BSE/CWD isn't destroyed by cooking, freezing, or usual methods of disinfection. It is recommended that hunters wear latex gloves when handling the meat and field dressing .

Map of known CWD states


But back to your original question about bleeding out the kill. Your meat will rot faster without bleeding. Also it makes for less of a mess when you are butchering out. When the meat is in the packages it will 'weep less'. You know when you get storebought meat, there is a pad under the chunk of meat? That is to soak up the 'weeped' blood. My home packages do not have a pad in them so when I thaw them out, they would get WAY TOO much blood on my counters when thawing.

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Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 10:12:05 AM »
Thank you both for the info / comments!  ^_^ (and the Karma)

Also, above when I said that "psalms" has many wise sayings, etc, I meant Proverbs.  For some reason I can't edit that post.


Offline Cedar

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2012, 10:52:39 AM »
Look at swine, for example. Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam all eschew swine. I wonder why that is?

Pigs were not confined then like they are now. They were garbage animals. Garbage and sewage was often tossed into the streets and the hogs would eat the debris. Hence, they were 'unclean' animals. Also pork meat is dangerous if not chilled fast enough and processed right. The areas where these people who started the religion lived was hot. There was no canning, you cannot dry pork, no freezers, no refrigerators.

Pork was utilized more in the upper Briton after the Romans went northward. In Ancient Italy, beef was rarely eaten as it would go bad before it was used and pork would be used as a meat instead. So not all Christians abstain from pork.

Medieval Food relied heavily on pork meat. During those times, when the land was still covered with huge forests of oak, great facilities were offered for breeding pigs, making pork the most important component of Medieval Food. Bishops, princes and lords fed numerous pigs on their domains, both for their own tables as well as for the fairs and markets.

There is a Pork Sausage Biscuit recipe from the Sisters of Sacred Heart from the monastery in Marbury.

The Monks of New Skete (famous for their dog books) in 1968, started raising cattle and other domestic animals to support themselves, the Monks began preparing smoked hams, sausages, and gourmet foods.

Timoleague Brown Pudding, a type of blood sausage (from hogs) was and is still made at the Timoleague Friary which was founded by the Franciscan order in 1240.

The St.Gallen Sausage, was invented as early as 1438 by monks in Switzerland.

So I think in lot of ways, the dietary laws on pork was created in hot countries and in the cooler climates the pork meats were embraced by the religious organization.

Cedar


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Offline Cedar

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 11:01:52 AM »
Which brings me to the thought of clothing laws which is in the same section as the food laws. Deuteronomy 22:11 which basically says "You must not wear clothing made of wool and linen (cotton in some versions) woven together."

I figure this is due to the hot climate again. One will wick the sweat/rain from you and one will not. Worn together, you counter the abilities of one against the other and either freeze or get overheated/heatstroke.

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Offline 16onRockandRoll

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 06:57:40 PM »
Quote
Why do people bleed deer and other game?
because my Daddy did, and his Daddy before him and so on. I have heard some people say it's unnecessary, but I see it like it's been said here, it makes sense to get as much out as you can. I dont know if it really helps, but I've done it my whole life, on game and farm animals, and I see no good reason to stop.
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Offline luke

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2012, 11:14:11 PM »
Not necessarily "bleeding the kill" but my deer processor told me to wash out the deer really well, especially if I can't deliver it to him quickly. The blood will, as others have mentioned, rot and destroy the meat. Plus it gives the meat a bad taste.
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 02:16:33 AM »
The "why" of bleeding your meat?

1)  Meat keeps longer.
2)  Removal of some bloodborne pathogens.
3)  Removal of the "gamey-ness" to wild meats.
4)  Cleaner processing of game/meat.
5)  Use in compost later.
6)  Less attraction of flies.
7)  Faster cooling of meat.

Here's a related thread.  I posted halfway down about how we process our meat.

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=38295.msg430537;topicseen#msg430537
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Offline LibertyBelle

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 07:10:19 PM »
Which brings me to the thought of clothing laws which is in the same section as the food laws. Deuteronomy 22:11 which basically says "You must not wear clothing made of wool and linen (cotton in some versions) woven together."

I spoke with a lady last month at the farmer's market who makes rag rugs, and she said that when she first got into making rugs, she was told by a veteran rug maker to never mix materials as one will eventually eat away the other.  She said she decided to test it for herself, and then proceeded to show me what was once a beautiful rag rug that she had made just two years ago from two different materials (I don't recall what the materials were), but was now literally crumbling apart as if only one of the materials had been soaked in bleach. 
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Offline Cedar

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Re: Why bleed your kill?
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 08:24:19 PM »
I spoke with a lady last month at the farmer's market who makes rag rugs, ,,, but was now literally crumbling apart as if only one of the materials had been soaked in bleach.

I knew there had to be some practical reason why.

Cedar - who might have to try it too
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