Author Topic: Bullion Vault  (Read 5261 times)

Offline jube

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Bullion Vault
« on: September 07, 2012, 01:55:34 AM »
Hi there,

I was just looking at ways of investing in silver and gold and where I am at the moment (i.e. not in the 'Western World'), makes it a bit risky to physically buy and own transportable gold or silver.  I was looking at the options and came across bullionvault, where you can buy gold (or silver) on their market which they allocate to you in London, Zurich or NY.  You can buy and sell it whenever you want and commission, etc, is very low.  They also point out that the gold/silver you purchase is not owned by them, they hold it on your behalf, so in the case of bankruptcy your gold cannot be claimed by receivers.  Of course in reality this would be much more difficult if you own, for example, 7/50th of an ounce of gold as part of a gold bullion bar (which might be a kilo or pound or so).   Withdrawing the physical precious metals from the vault is quite difficult and costly - but then that is why the difference between the buy and sell prices are so small.

So anyway, has anyone out there had any experience with this company any similar ones (I think goldmoney is their main competitor).

Also, how difficult is it to travel with a few ounces of gold?  Legally and practically?

Thanks in advance, :)

Jube

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2012, 02:10:55 AM »
Sounds like the perfect scam to me.

Offline lochaber

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2012, 05:10:25 AM »
Those folks do sound like a scam and if you can't touch it, you don't own it.  Have you considered jewlery? I can think of many places on earth where the local culture frowns on chains and rings and you would be surprised how many ounces one can wear discretely. No, it isn't bullion, but it is the next best thing.

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2012, 05:39:14 AM »
I've never had a problem traveling with a few ounces of gold.  My only concern has been at airport screening, but that's just a fear of sticky fingered TSA employees, not of confiscation.  A few ounces of gold looks and feels like a few coins in your pocket and I've never been able to see that on anyone else.  If I'm carrying gold when I fly, I empty all my pockets into my carry on bag while going through security, then return it to my pocket once through.

I tend to agree with the others, the risk of fraud with a remote vault is significant.  I'd rather have physical gold in my possession, even if I had to bury it in a coffee can in my backyard.

Offline jube

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2012, 07:35:17 AM »
I don't think it is a scam - well maybe to the same extent that banks are - they have got some recommendations from the World Gold Council and London Bullion Market Exchange for what that's worth.  They have got 30 tonnes of the yellow stuff stored up anyway.

I am just thinking that it is slightly safer than money in the bank at the moment to hedge against inflation/deflation and various currency fluctuations.

Maybe I'll just go down to the local pawn shop and start stocking up on big heavy gold necklaces :-)

Offline The Professor

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2012, 08:24:56 PM »
Uh. . .I have 100 lbs of gold, 300 of silver.

Send me your money and I'll issue you a voucher (electronic or paper, your choice) which you can trade or exchange at your desire.

You won't get any of the gold, mind you, but you'll have the voucher. The gold stays nice and safe in my "vault."

I'll even give you 10% off the spot price of gold.  Of course, you do need to send cash, money order or use ETF and/or PayPal.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you the details on how to give me your . . .er, how to invest your money.

The Professor

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2012, 09:05:47 PM »
IMO, The Professor has about summed it up.

and, BTW, "If you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Words to live by.

Offline Jesse2004

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2012, 09:27:48 PM »
Hi there,

I was just looking at ways of investing in silver and gold and where I am at the moment (i.e. not in the 'Western World'), makes it a bit risky to physically buy and own transportable gold or silver. 

The number one thing to think through is why you want to own gold / silver. 

If it's an 'investment', you think you know which way the market will go, look into buying an ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) of a gold / silver fund and see if you are right and make money...

If you want to hedge against inflation and you are not concerned about 'counterparty risk', still investigate the ETF.  I use the term counterparty risk to mean the risk that the institution you invest with - be it bullionvault or the brokerage you use to buy the ETF, breaks their agreement with you (for any reason) and when you want your metal / value back they do not or can not provide it.

 If you want anonymous, portable wealth that is not subject to bank failures, inflation, and monetary collapse risks, physical gold/silver in your possession offers many advantages.  Be cautious - it does introduce the risk of theft.  If you have gold coins, or silver jewelry on your person, or in your home and they are stolen, you lose. 

Buying physical gold/silver that is not in your possession makes it non-anonymous and subject to failure of the holder of the metal to deliver.  The professor's comments are basically right - you have to really trust the person holding for you.  And often there are extra fees to get your metal to them and from them when you want to withdraw.

Traveling with a few ounces of gold is generally not noticeable.  I don't know your locality and local laws, so I'm not sure about the legal side of things, but that amount is very small and fairly easy to conceal.  Jewelry is certainly a good option too.

In summary, figure out why you want to own it, then decide what's the best risk / reward for your goals.


Offline Vulcan

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 01:36:30 AM »
Uh. . .I have 100 lbs of gold, 300 of silver.

Send me your money and I'll issue you a voucher (electronic or paper, your choice) which you can trade or exchange at your desire.

You won't get any of the gold, mind you, but you'll have the voucher. The gold stays nice and safe in my "vault."

I'll even give you 10% off the spot price of gold.  Of course, you do need to send cash, money order or use ETF and/or PayPal.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you the details on how to give me your . . .er, how to invest your money.

The Professor

Pretty much what I meant when I said it sounded like the perfect scam.

Offline jube

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2012, 04:07:05 AM »
Thanks for all of your comments, especially Jessie2004, regarding bullion vault or similar.  I think that I trust bullion vault better than any of the mainstream banks because they don't go out lending more money than they have.  As I see it, modern banks are all bankrupt (well not officially - but definitely have lent out a lot more money than has been deposited with them) which is the reason for the baleouts.  And I'm not sure that I trust the professor enough to send him my millions even with his generous 10% off spot price. ;-)

Basically, I want the money to sit in with bullion vault, I can travel as I please and when I need the money it is more than likely to be there holding its value.  Of course, in a total financial breakdown of the banking system I can't get my money from bullion vault to the bank but the chances of that with no warning at all are slim and as they hold (yes I know I should say "they say they hold ...") a couple of billion dollars worth of gold.

So no I don't think it is the perfect scam, no more than putting your money anywhere except maybe under your mattress.  Maybe the whole gold thing is a scam which is going to fall flat on its face ... who knows. 

Offline vardaman

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2012, 10:04:24 PM »
It amazes me how many people actually take the time to respond to your question without even bothering to put "Bullion Vault" into a search engine before declaring it a scam. It's not a scam. It's a legitimate company. I have an account with them. It was a pain to open the account because they are based in the UK. They are very thorough, it isn't like dealing with banks who tend to toss your account numbers and social sec. around wily nily.

They give you the option of holding gold in Zurich or London. And I just checked, now New York. It was originally Zurich and Hong Kong I believe.   

Your gold is allocated in a vault. They are not a bank. However, if you don't have a large quantity of gold you want to store it probably isn't worth doing because the storage fees are not cheap.

There are other allocated vaults stateside, but they are really for people who might own a ton of silver or hundreds of ounces of gold. You are charged a fee for the storage so that's what you need to look at. Silver Saver has a good way to buy and store silver and gold. I've used them for a couple of years and it's very convenient to buy ounces and take delivery if you desire or sell and take cash. I have used Kitco as well to hold silver/gold they are fairly discreet but the web interface isn't as user friendly as Silver Saver. You will incur storage fees with Silver Saver as well, but they aren't unreasonable. FinancialSenseNewsHour has a podcast on allocating gold and silver in vaults and all that it entails. If you can find it in their archives it's a good listen, probably around 2008 timeframe.

Offline Oil Lady

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Re: Bullion Vault
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2012, 11:48:14 PM »
I can't speak for other nations' laws, but here in the USA, the following categories of business each have very specific laws attached to their operation.

bank
investment firm
brokerage firm
lending company
holding company
building and loan company
mortgage company
trust company
safe deposit company
depository company


This place is calling itself by that catchy title "Bullion Vault." But they do not seem to be declaring with any degree of transparency what kind of company they are.

Are they a trust company??
Are they a depository company??

Whate exactly are they??

After you have figured out what animal they are, there should be (at least in the USA0 a very specific body of laws and regulations which will govern their activities according to which type of business they actually are.

But if they are NOT a type of company which falls under the heading  of any of the above, (such as perhaps they are calling themselves a "vault company" when in fact there is no such thing as a "vault company" within the law) then there are no laws on the books capable of governing them.