Author Topic: My Experience at Front Sight  (Read 2249 times)

Offline cdhm22

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My Experience at Front Sight
« on: November 05, 2012, 12:47:23 PM »
Hey Folks,

My pregnant wife and I went to Front Sight the week of the 22nd of October. I thought I would post about our experiences here.

I have been shooting since I was 3 yrs old, and my wife has shot about a dozen times all with me. I have always thought myself a pretty craptastic shot with a pistol, and when my brother came up with a deal on training at front sight for cheap I discussed it with the wife and decided to go for it. We took the 2 day Defensive Handgun course. This comprised 2 days of on range and classroom activities. We shot 250 Rounds a piece.

I shoot a full frame Glock 45 ACP and when my wife wanted to get a pistol I suggested she get  a 45 so we didn't have to carry two different ammo varieties. Never fail the first time she shoots it her hands her and she wants to trade it in. I suggested she wait until after we go to Front Sight to receive training to make that decision. After the first half the day and 50 rounds of ammo I asked how her hands were doing, she gave me the deer in the headlights look and said I hadn't notice anything they feel fine.

Front Sight teaches an isometric push-pull method for holding the gun, so rather than using your hands to grip the gun you use your palms to push and pull the gun keeping it in place. Nothing revolutionary, but their different explanations of it helped a lot. Grab a friend and try this, have them hold up their arm and grab their wrist. Squeeze it with both hands in a crushing manner. Then using the same grip push with your firing side arm and pull with your support side arm, the friend should only feel pressure on the front and back of their arm. While doing this try and wiggle your firing finger, you'll notice a significant amount of difference tension between the two methods.

My result was instead of shanking every shot low and left (I'm right handed) I started hitting center mass with every shot. My wife at the end of 2 days was shooting better than me because she didn't have to unlearn any old bad habits.

The classroom portion of the class was also awesome. They had different lectures about shooting scenarios, the proper 911 call after a shooting scenario, the definition of acceptable use of force (generalized because of the number of different nuances by state), and what most likely would happen to you if you do shoot someone. It was a really grounding experience and personally I got as much out of the classroom stuff as I did on the range.

Pros:
Instructors were awesome, friendly, and very happy to answer any questions on the range or in the class.
Started from empty gun and progressed to firing from the holster giving a sense of familiarity with the gun.
Cleared the 3 most common malfunctions over and over to learn rapid clearing (3 being empty chamber or failed primer, stovepipe round out the side, or failure to eject)
Final scenario is a shoot no shoot situation with moving targets.

Cons:
Location, it is 45 miles from Las Vegas. (I won't stay in Vegas next time, but the wife wanted to catch shows after this time, so we drove back and forth.)

Stress over flying with a gun. (Not as bad as I thought, but still a pain.)

I had to buy a new holster because they don't allow Serpa style holsters, but I do like my new holster. (You can bring whatever as long as it doesn't have a lock in the trigger guard)

Desert heat, and cold mornings.

Final notes:

Would I do it again?
Yes, am already planning a trip with my brother next year.

How did the pregnant lady take it?
Other than being annoyed I kept making her drink water to stay hydrated she did awesome. Baby only kicked when we were in the classroom. She was 20wks along when we went.

Is it worth going all the way to Vegas when there are others available closer?
In my opinion, Yes. I have not trained at others, but Front Sight claims they train more people at their facility than all others combined. I had a great experience and decided to buy a membership so I don't have to pay for my training again. There may be great places all over, but for me and the wife with such a great experience we are going back.

Offline backwoods_engineer

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2012, 05:19:36 PM »
Thanks for the report!  I've been dreaming of going with my wife for a long time.  We may have to pick a training place closer to home, though.

Offline Cooter Brown

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2012, 05:31:10 PM »
Hey Folks,

My pregnant wife and I went to Front Sight the week of the 22nd of October. I thought I would post about our experiences here.

Didn't drink any kool-aid while you were there, did you?  ;)
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Offline The Professor

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2012, 09:06:11 PM »
Didn't drink any kool-aid while you were there, did you?  ;)

Heh-heh. . .Iggy is nothing, if not persistent.

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Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 06:30:36 AM »
Drinking cooled would typically indicate a cult following which typically display an emotional attachment with the object of idolatry. Since I clearly stated that this was the right choice for me and the wife and did not try to sway others to pursue I think I am clear of the cult. Relating to the pregnant wife, well, a pregnant lady properly trained is much less dangerous to herself and the baby. Both she and the instructors put an extra emphasis on proper gun handling so she didn't muzzle the baby.

Offline The Professor

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 12:30:02 PM »
Drinking cooled would typically indicate a cult following which typically display an emotional attachment with the object of idolatry. Since I clearly stated that this was the right choice for me and the wife and did not try to sway others to pursue I think I am clear of the cult. Relating to the pregnant wife, well, a pregnant lady properly trained is much less dangerous to herself and the baby. Both she and the instructors put an extra emphasis on proper gun handling so she didn't muzzle the baby.

<Chuckle>

Now, don't go getting your knickers in a twist.  We wouldn't want any of those who did drink the flavored red beverage threatening lawsuits.

I was one of the original people who intended to invest in Iggy's earlier dream of Front Sight many years ago at the Atlanta SHOT Show.  I was approached several times (he should've waited until AFTER I gave  him my deposit) about his personal agenda.  He's been lambasted many times and it's still not generally known amongst the thousands that attend the classes.   They now tend to wait until you're well-invested, both financially (because you do need a lot of $$ to move on to other levels) and personally.

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Yeah, that's right. . ."Professor EMERITUS!"  Now, pardon me while I show up "late" for. . .uh. . .work.

Offline literacola

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 09:19:31 AM »
I'm curious, did you feel that 250 rounds was enough in a 2 day course? It seems a bit low to me, the pistol course I took we fired around 1250 rounds a piece, I thought that was a perfect amount (although some people started blistering halfway through the 2nd day)


Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 12:20:23 PM »
I'm curious, did you feel that 250 rounds was enough in a 2 day course? It seems a bit low to me, the pistol course I took we fired around 1250 rounds a piece, I thought that was a perfect amount (although some people started blistering halfway through the 2nd day)



We did a lot of dry practice runs. I felt like there was a decent balance between live fire and dry practice. Overall, I would have liked to shoot more rounds, especially at the end of the course, but I would lean more towards 3-400 rounds in 2 days than 1250. There is also a point of diminishing returns of shots fired to what you are really getting from it. By the end of the second day there were a ton of people that were just exhausted because of getting sight picture and practicing the mechanics, not just shooting. The class I want to take next is a skill builder course, which is spent entirely on the range is 500 rounds of ammo in 2 days.

Offline The Professor

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 04:17:09 PM »
^^  Not to mention approaching the cost-prohibitive line for a one-day program with current ammo prices.

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Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 09:38:56 PM »
That is for sure. The price of ammo makes training of any sort painful on the pocket book.

Offline CR Williams

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 09:22:27 AM »
It might be more cost effect to see if you can host courses closer to where you live. There are a few companies and independent instructors who will go where you are to run classes.
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Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 02:46:30 PM »
True, which was the major drawback I listed against Front Sight. Regardless I did feel like I got my money's worth out of the course. If I remember hearing right they are launching some sort of traveling course, but I don't know any specifics. It does all go back to personal preference on who you want your training from.

Offline RTFM

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 05:19:26 PM »
Glad you liked it --  you appear to be one of the few people on the planet that came away with something good to say about it.

Did they try to soft sell you on the lifetime membership or purchasing undeveloped land to build on around the perimeter of the facility?

Google front sight class action law suit or Dr. Ignatius Piazza law suit and there are quite a few angry people out there.
But I guess he's doing well for him self as a chiropractor turn gun school owner.

Would you go back again if the opportunity presented it self or try somewhere else like Thunder Ranch or Gunsite?



Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 07:55:51 PM »
Interesting hadn't heard of any of that. I plan to go back next fall when vacation and family allow. Several of the folks in class were returning customers. One of the guys travelled there every six months from San Diego to take one of the two day classes. Yeah the tract of land investment thing seemed wierd to me, but as far as I know they had sold all their plots(not interested anyway, but they put a positive spin on the plots to some seriously rich folks at $300k). The membership deals I think are still out there and it does say in big bold letters they will not refund purchase price only transfer membership to someone else.

Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 08:37:21 PM »
After reading through the news articles on the lawsuits it does look a little shady, but it was all about the land that was bought and not developed. I know get the previous reference to cool- aide. Did find it humorous that one of the guys in the lawsuit spent every weekend out there until they recinded his membership because of the lawsuit. Regardless I'm not going to buy land or promote that others do, but I will say piazza does have an aggressive marketing scheme.

Offline Cooter Brown

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 08:44:55 PM »
After reading through the news articles on the lawsuits it does look a little shady, but it was all about the land that was bought and not developed. I know get the previous reference to cool- aide. Did find it humorous that one of the guys in the lawsuit spent every weekend out there until they recinded his membership because of the lawsuit. Regardless I'm not going to buy land or promote that others do, but I will say piazza does have an aggressive marketing scheme.

He further threatened to sue anyone and everyone who inquired and/or posted about the lawsuits.

I've actually heard good things about many of his instructors, but I will never put a dime in this guy's pocket.
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Offline RTFM

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 09:53:15 AM »
Yes I too have heard good things about there, but have been (gad analogy coming CAUTION) gun shy of attending his school.
And is always good to get a first hand review of it -

Offline kyosa

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2012, 10:12:14 PM »
I have been to Front sight twice for the handgun course and once for the rifle course.  I am a lifetime member and try to get out there every 6 months but its tough from Minnesota.  Instruction is great-many are retired Law Enforcement and/or military.  The lectures are excellent too.  I did the night shoot for the 4th of July this year and they put on a great fireworks display for the 4th.  I have been shooting for many years and have developed some bad habits and made some good progress from their training.  It's crazy to see 600+ people shooting at one facility with about 30 people per range and 3-4 instructors per range.  I have seen some of the instructors do some excellent shooting such as 75 yard shots in the dark with no flashlight just moonlight hitting a human sized target with tracer rounds every time.  Maybe thats not that hard but I have never seen that before.

Offline cdhm22

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 08:12:21 AM »
Kyosa cool to hear about your experience as well. The night course looks pretty cool and I am planning to take that in the future. How many times have you been there?

Offline Jesse2004

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2012, 08:35:13 AM »
I have taken a couple courses at Front Sight (3 pistol, one rifle) and have always been pleased with the instruction.  Unfortunately, from the east coast, I don't get out to Nevada that much.  There are rumors about additional facilities to be opening soon, we'll see how that goes.

I bought the lifetime membership, and have been pleased with it - I have gotten my money's worth, but agree that the sales pitch from there can seem shady.   There were some initial expectations set that haven't been completed across all the years.  Nothing to do with the basic firearms training, but I'm sure some folks are legitimately upset by it.  I know my gym (health club membership) in the 90s sold memberships with a similar approach.  I didn't like that either.

Overall though, I liked the training and thought it was very valuable - I'll be returning some time in 2013.  I don't claim to be the super expert, but if anyone is thinking about going or buying a membership, feel free to ask me any questions, I'm happy to share my thoughts and experiences.

Offline Polar Bear

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2012, 10:04:25 PM »
Cool.  Thank you for posting this.  I keep getting robo calls from them and was wondering if it's worht going to.  Now I know.   8)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 10:49:25 PM »
Cons:
Location, it is 45 miles from Las Vegas. (I won't stay in Vegas next time, but the wife wanted to catch shows after this time, so we drove back and forth.)

Yes, it is far more convenient to stay in Pahrump instead of Vegas.  The hotels there actually cater to FS students.  Some even give discounts to students like: http://www.saddlewest.com/front-sight-members.php  But you will need to book early as they can often sell out, especially for the weekend courses.  If you have a group, another great option is renting a house: http://www.vacationrentals.com/vacation-rentals/47443.html?promoType

I have trained multiple times at FS and have had 100% positive experiences.  If you are interested in detailed reviews of the various courses, see here: http://www.guntrainingcentral.com/

Offline joeface

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Re: My Experience at Front Sight
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2013, 08:27:40 PM »
Great to hear some positive responses. I picked up a couple of 4 day handgun certificates when they had them for 69 bucks so I figured I couldn't go wrong. I will get to use them some day but have not yet.