Author Topic: TSP disaster response  (Read 10785 times)

Offline rikkrack

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TSP disaster response
« on: November 07, 2012, 05:05:08 PM »
I have no idea where to post this and pardon any grammar issues. Posted from my phone in parking lot on way home.

I just listened to the intro to episode 1015. Was totally moved. I am in and want to volunteer in any way. I do not have he skills or knowledge to organize the big group but I can organize my local city group. I want this to move forward and show what preppers can do when not slowed down by government. I heard this as a calling to something more and I want to contribute. When attempting to do the same thing with cert and volunteer in my area it was clear that those organizing didn't have a clue.

I want to move on this like yesterday so what are the next steps?

I will work with my local contacts and prepper store and the local TSPer in my area to organize on a local area but let's get this going!!

Did it again Jack, opening my eyes to a bigger picture! You spoke, I heard you and am wanting to contribute!

Any one else?
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Offline Roundabouts

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 05:34:38 PM »
So jazzed to talk to hubby about this.  With his experience and background this is right up his alley.  I know he will be stoked.  I always wanted to be a part of MERT but couldn't due to home front responsibilities.  Did organize huge events and things for little league,  boyscouts & family services but think this would be out of my experience level for sure. 

When Katrina hit we were hours away from going in to help when family ER popped up and we couldn't go.   This is a great way to help those that need it without worrying if the money or time will be squandered. 

I am just so jazzed.  Once again Jack uses his power for good not evil!! Gotta love that man. 
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 07:01:03 PM »
I am jazzed too. Could you tell? Got my prepper store and three locals rallied and ready to start! All on board and jazzed too.

This goes beyond what government can supply. Real help. For example. Simple things that government aren't concerned with that we all think about. Comfort items for kids. Child care while parents get organized. We don't need to wait for massive trucks o supplies. Get a little going quick until trucks arrive. Simple solutions not complicated ones for simple problems.

Got tons of ideas already.
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Offline Nicodemus

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 11:23:09 PM »
I hope the idea takes off.

I'd like to see teams popping up all over.


Offline Roundabouts

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 08:58:01 AM »
Talked to hubby.  He just said huh cool and raised his eyebrows.  Then not a word.  Yup He is jazzed too!  He went right to silent thinking mode.  No time for excitement.  I could see his wheels turning.  I knew he would love the idea. 
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 09:02:23 AM »
Yup, talked to my group and started making a plan. Making a list of skills we all have/share, what we bring tools/supplies wise, and phone tree. Got a meeting location (prepper store as base to meet/supply). Just waiting further instructions and what the "vision" is to come.
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Offline Roundabouts

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 09:14:26 AM »
That sounds great!  Now we just have to wait for the system to be developed.  Sounds like you could help with that?  Once Jack gets some people to get things grounded in the foundation it will be go time.  This might take a while to get off the ground but I will be a worth while thing for sure.   
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Offline Adam B.

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 10:03:58 AM »
I am definitely not the one you would want as a local "organizer" — I am spread way too thin for that, but if there are people in Western PA / Pittsburgh who want to get together and make a plan I am all for it. I would love to get to know more like minded people around here — and in spite of my cynical attitude I actually WOULD like to know I can help people in need if the time came to do so.
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 10:32:37 AM »
Adam, we need more people like you. Not everyone can be, wants to be, or should be organizer/chief. I would only for my group 20 or so in my area. beyond that and out of my zone.

But clearing downed trees, helping do a neighborhood watch for looting, manning a station where people can check in, hand out water. EVERYONE can do SOMETHING. Answer a phone, or even be the central call point to call up all the other volunteers and never leave house.

Wife wont be leaving our area, but will be hanging back and doing kid wrangling for those that do go out and help, central communication back home, and base camp here in our area.

I think the problem is with current organizations is that they are so big and try to over analyze and there are too many groups all wanting to be chief, make the decisions, and no one wants to work together.

Cells of volunteers that can go out and do good. Like Jack said main contats in East, West, and Central. Then they call the state contacts, the state call the regional contacts. Regionals organize their groups and move out.

I have heard of people in multiple disasters packing up to go and help then turned away because one government group couldn't work or communicate with another. Is sad and to think how much money goes to them and the people involved and still cant seem to get things done.
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Offline Tonyb1515

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 11:53:56 AM »
I am a member of the National Guard near Washington DC and I was activated this past weekend to drive fuel truck up to Brooklyn. Minutes before we were scheduled to leave, we received a call canceling the mission...... The reason ? The folks coordinating the response only wanted to invite units from the NJ/NY region. I got to spend all this week watching folks hurting for fuel when I had a 6000 gallon truck ready and willing to respond. In 17 years of service we have never actually made it to an emergency. We report, stand around and then go home after logistical snafus, politics and plain on incompetence. When I heard this podcast I almost jumped out of my chair! Please, please, please add me to the list of those ready and able to do what the gov't so often fails to do. This is an awesome idea !!!

Offline Klonus

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 12:45:58 PM »
This is such an awesome idea. I think illl bring this up at the next region four meet up.
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Offline Saint-TyR

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 01:35:05 PM »
This is such an awesome idea. I think illl bring this up at the next region four meet up.

Yes, it is a great idea and I really think the regions are a good place to start with the center being a point person nationally. We are in region 1 and are willing to add to the skill base.
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 01:40:19 PM »
So just heard Jack will be out for a few days...So no more updates on the idea he had until he returns. Maybe his plan. plant the seed and wee where it goes while out...lol

Brain storming time.

Those that have been through disaster situations.

What has worked well and why?
What has had epic failures and why?

Anyone else have ideas on "If I had my way I would do X in that situation."

Example....Use Jack's idea of move in, take over a unused radio channel, and broadcast information. I know (not a HAM operator) the FCC would frown on this, but really...how hard would it be, and what are the issues and pitfalls. How would people know to tune into that station? Text, FB, website, call to friends in the area. I dunno.



Example .... Generator with powerstips for cell phone charging. Simple but way usefull to those without power.
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Offline Maverick9110e

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 02:44:31 PM »
Just listened to this episode today and LOVE IT.  I'm trying to "join up/volunteer" with Team rubicon but their communication is really not working great, it's tough to even get a hold of anyone let alone see who's in my area.

I'm a former Firefighter who moved from NJ to north of Raleigh, NC. Unfortunatley i live just a bit to far to join up to the local FD and help out so i've been looking for an outlet to help people and keep my skills going to good use.  I've got my NIMS,ICS and Hazmat certs so i feel like i can definiley be of good use.

The big key i think with getting a group like this together is going to be the Logistics and Communication end of it.  We're going to need away for team members to communicate and coordinate in times of need and disaster.  Rather than re-invent the wheel i think the best way to get that started is to just utilize this forum, maybe create a new section. Where DRT members can discuss things.  It would have to be maybe a password protected area to keep some of the random riff raff interweb surfers out at the very least and keep the discussion only between team members. Again, not for reasons of being something like a secret squireel but you don't need people from the media or somwhere else jumpin into it.

I know Jack mentioned a head honcho which is a great idea but i think your also going to need to break it up into regions, again for logistics and communication reasons. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with A.N.T.S. (Americans Networking To Survive) but they have a pretty good setup for members to communicate and work out getting supplies into areas that are in need.

Another roadblock we'll hit is when helping out areas in disaster your going to find a lot of places under states of emergency declared by local, state and federal officials which limits people who are allowed on the roadways, so we are going to need a long term goal of when we become established and even before, working with government officials so that we can actually go help these people.  I think the Non profit registration will go a long way helping with that.

As far as skills required for people deploying.

Your going to need at a minimum courses like ICS-100 and CERT training which can just about all be done online, so people are aware of the what and how to work with emergency responders.

Theres a lot more but i'll leave my post at this for now, need to get back to the office work  ;) lol.
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 03:13:36 PM »
CERT training must be different in different areas. Where I am at you must dedicate a full day on a weekend for four consecutive weekends. You cannot miss or make up a session. I couldn't attend all four, and asked if I could make up at a later session. Was told no. All or nothing. Asked what else I could do to volunteer to help. Told talk to local fire house. Local fire house refused any volunteers. Stating they don't need any help.

I have had all the training necessary for working at a major large scale chemical Mfg and no-one wanted my help. I was extremely frustrated. I let it go until I hard Jack talk about the DRT. Woke my desire to help when needed and back at it.

I found my local prepper community (only some are TSPer's not for a lack of tryin). Found some good there, if someone needs something, one call and we are all there.

There are hurdles to overcome. I agree. But I love problem solving, and for every road block I show you a bridge, an overpass, a tunnel, a barge, a footpath, name your way around. But "No" and "can't" is not something I like or will accept easily.

I write SOP's and technical docs for a living. I offer that up as well. If this then follow this guideline. There is a lot of info already out there.

I like the separate area but that is a lot to ask for mods possibly. I also like the idea of a badge with your avatar indicating that you are part of DRT or a Region Coordinator. I dislike the "leader" or rank.
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Offline idelphic

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 03:16:20 PM »
Guess I'm going to have to d/l the epi and hear what the hub bub is about..
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Offline Maverick9110e

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 03:49:00 PM »
I agree it might be more work on the already busy moderators but it might be the easiest and least work if you look at alternatives.  Up in jersey you had to attened a class as well but i think there was some online coursework you needed to complete as well, but i may be thinking of the IS-317 class/info thats online.
  Also i'm not throwing any of that out there as negatives, just things like you said we need to look at and overcome  8).  You being able to write the docs will definitley be an assest for the group.  I'd caution anyone that wants to put some in place to call them Standard Operating GUIDELINES though and not Procedures.  There is a big legal definition differnce between the two and SOG's will give you a lot more wiggle room the SOP's which i'm sure you know all about being in your field. I also agree on not having a rank system or anything.  People will get way to caught up in that crap and make mountains out of mole hills with it.
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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 03:58:38 PM »
FYI, the mods/admins are aware of this, and we can set up a separate board in the forum if it looks like there's a demand for it.

Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 04:10:51 PM »
I know for our ham emergency communication team, we had to take some free online course. mainly so know know the how to talk the ligo to the people in charge and what the structure of command is.

off the top of my head I would say:
  • need courses and training requirements
  • need list of equipment and skills we have
  • need a way to contact people to deploy and where to go (heck a forum would work)


Starting to make some great contacts in Milwaukee, that would play into what Jack was saying.

Let me know if this takes off. I still got the links we used for our free core training.
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Offline Nom

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 11:35:48 PM »
I'm new to the forums but not to the podcast and certainly not to the lifestyle.

I have a lot of volunteer experience: 9 years as a police reserve officer and 10 years in county search and rescue, currently on the board and move the policies back and forth.

I have no love or trust in FEMA but they use a great program with NIMS and ICS (if it's used properly). Google both if you wish. Understanding and using ICS locally and personally would go a great way to having the TSP-DRT accepted on a local level.

When you understand that ICS can be used to plan a BBQ for 8 or to handle a national disaster you will understand how it works.

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Offline The Professor

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2012, 12:02:36 AM »
Okay, I will admit that I haven't (yet) heard the podcast in question.

However, my initial questions will probably be considered to be of the Wet Blanket variety.

First off, exactly what would the mission description for this disaster response team be?

Second, and dependent upon the first answer, exactly what level of liability is Jack, TSP, the TSP-Forum group, and the individuals concerned willing to accept?

Third, where will the funding come from?  Each individual?  Will Jack, TSP, the TSP-Forum group, and the individuals each bear the cost?

Fourth, and based upon answer to #3, what sort of corporate protection would something like this need?

Unless this is an "informal" group, supporting members of TSP only, then I can see a LOT of legal issues to be faced here.

Sorry, not trying to harsh a buzz, but this is stuff I'd want to know before I got too deeply involved.

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Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2012, 12:13:44 AM »
Good point Professor. To avoid those problems, maybe for now, we should think small. Like only deploying with in state lines. But as maybe this is a good exercise to plan better as a group, than planning as a solo prepper effort.
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Offline The Professor

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2012, 12:34:17 AM »
Well, if it's going to be a Mutual Support Group, based upon the Samaritanship within the group, I think it'd be great.  But if you're coming to my Disaster Command Post saying "Hi!  We're from the internet and we're here to help!" . . .uh, I'm going to be a bit dismissive.  I'll want to see your certifications, your liability, your experience. . .in other words, your bona fides.

It takes private groups a LONG time to build those creds up.  Even then, trying to interject yourself into a disaster area under jurisdiction on the state and/or federal level is going to be difficult. 

Not trying to be a d*** here, but I've seen this in action and we've all heard about the stories from events such as Katrina and even Sandy.  <sarcasm mode on> We can't have untrained people who are answerable to no one volunteering to do work without our direct supervision. <sarcasm mode off>.

Now, if you want to try a "Stealth" group. . .then that'd be something different.  Work on the periphery of the event to help organize certain aspects of recovery to those who ask you.  But even then. . .the aftermath (and I mean well AFTER the situation rectifies itself) can be a nightmare.   If you're not set up as a 501xx, you may have a TON of explaining to do.  Where did your money come from, where did it go, can you itemize each expense. . .etc, ad-freakin-nauseum.

And running such a 501xx is a major pain.  I know, I've done it.  You're always at the IRS' beck and call, riding what appears to be a constantly changing line on lubed ice-skates with the ever-present threat of losing your non-profit status  hanging over your head like a razor-sharp Sword of Damocles.

However, I may be speaking from the jaundiced eye of a person who's done something like this.

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 12:58:02 AM by The Professor »
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Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2012, 12:42:37 AM »
Maybe the way to go is to ignore the system and go for "Random acts of kindness"
No street cred needed.

Or you rather than build street cred, you could be apart of a group that already has its hooks in the system. For me this would be our Ham group. We tag along with fire department, police, and hospitals when needed.
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2012, 07:20:01 AM »
WOW Professor nothing like a cold shot of reality first thing in the morning. Are you sure you are not a Doctor instead of a professor? But you are right.
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Offline Maverick9110e

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2012, 08:14:24 AM »
What kind (If any) liability coverage would a 501 give us? I think it's worth looking at other groups Like Team Rubicon and see how they worked through these problems?
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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2012, 08:57:35 AM »
Prof, I would start by listening to the podcast in question, its the first 15 minutes or so of the episode (then it goes to bee keeping) to get the intent Jack suggested.

As long as we respond to sufficiently large disasters I think our issues of access and liability can be minimized.  I lived 30 miles from Joplin when the tornado hit.  There were vehicles rolling in from as far away as NC thinking they were going to get there in time to bandage lacerated heads and hand out blankets.  That place got gang tackled with aid.  Some aid efforts got in the way or did not bring the right materials.  So we can bring survivalist flavored aid to completely overwhelmed regions instead of being a normal relief/disaster response agency.

What is survivalist flavored aid?  Evangelical survivalism: small scale aid using the stuff we already use as preppers.  We use the same types of generators we use in our homes for power outages (they dont need to be big, its mostly just for lights and letting people charge phones).  We use the same propane stoves that we use for prepping for the electric stove to be out.  We use the same pots to cook food that we use as water bath canning.  Think small, mobile, cheap and useful to the owner even if their Disaster Response capacity is never activated (makes our life better even if nothing goes wrong).  We cannot do mass feedings, large scale power generation, debris clearing or SAR as well as other entities that do it professionally or semi-professionally.  We should not compete with the Red Cross or the religious disaster response organizations.  They will do it better than us anyway.  Instead we are portable preppers who just show people what we would do if we happened to live in their communities, we use normal prepper gear as part of spreading the word of why prepping is important.  Religious charities dispense aid with a side of Jesus.  We dispense assistance with a side of prepping gospel.  How is that for intent?
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Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2012, 09:17:11 AM »
+ 1 Chemsoldier. I was a bit deflated and not sure how to respond, just sinking in, and you hit exactly what I was thinking. It is a reality, but I wasn't thinking MASS scale as Prof may have thought. My thought was 5-10 or even 20 responders, maybe hit a suburb community, outlying area, the town over that has a 1/0 population of the major city that was hit.

Not replace the organizations but the outskirts. I lived through some disasters, and the majority of help goes to the most populated areas as it should help the most. The bigger organizations are designed to mobilize for hundreds and thousands of people in a concentrated area. The streets with a few people on it are last to get help if any. A generator between a few families, a composting toilet, water filter, and some camp chow can go a LONG way to those 5 families. A digital camera, and camcorder to start taking pictures for insurance. A info packet of maybe checklist of where to go, what to do next. We could be much more mobile and agile than the bigger groups. A few Tucks/SUV trailer and gone. No Semi, no logistics of loading etc. No setting up where volunteers will sleep and feed them etc. A prepper would already have gear, food, and shelter. Hell sleep in front lawns.  With just 10-20 can use short distance walkie talkie back and forth to a central point who may have a cell/sat/ham radio to communicate with the bigger group or our own coordinator. Get a neighborhood up and semi functional.

Not like TV is on or can go to work sometimes, so take that opportunity, educate them all on why you brought what you did, how they can do the same thing in another disaster, and they can pay it forward.
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Offline Adam B.

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2012, 09:24:48 AM »
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I think the problem is with current organizations is that they are so big and try to over analyze and there are too many groups all wanting to be chief, make the decisions, and no one wants to work together.

That is pretty much why I am not a "card carrying member" of any particular group even though I am a "unofficial member" of several. I don't have room for silly politics and nonsense like that in my life.

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What kind (If any) liability coverage would a 501 give us? I think it's worth looking at other groups Like Team Rubicon and see how they worked through these problems?

Another reason LOL. Once you start getting into 501 or 401K or GS19 or F16 and CS3 or whatever other gobbeltygook secret codes and insurance racketeers, banksters, and riff raff like that I don't want anything to do with it anymore. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of a "group that gets together to help others when they need it" concept.

Yeah, I know this country is a police state full of lawsuit happy, scared to death to do anything without permission, tattle tale telling wussies. But I still think it is a better idea to say — "Who wants meet at some coffee shop / bar / restaurant, learn some skils from each other, go out to the woods and blast some rounds, learn some ham radio, learn about computers, or whatever the other people do — and share phone numbers / emails in case something happens where we can pitch in and help people who need it."

People just want to make everything complicated for no reason these days. Not related — but there is an organization here in town that organizes hikes and outdoorsy events around town. They post group hikes in the local parks and charge "$10 for non-members / $5 for members" and I make fun of people all the time who go to these things saying "Why do I need to pay $10 to go hike in the woods when otherwise I can just um... GO TO THE WOODS AND HIKE??? And if I want to hike with a group um..... Send out an email, gather some people and go for a hike???"

If they offered something I could not do on my own for FREE any time I want, then I might be interested in forking out some cash to participate, but they never do!

People seem to feel like they are part of some "special club" and/or work their way up to "dear leader" of some cult.
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Offline The Professor

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Re: TSP disaster response
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2012, 11:33:04 AM »
Again, I haven't yet listened to the podcast, will be doing so between classes later today.

Yeah, I suck.  But it's because I've had to deal with this sort of thing numerous times.

However, as I sat and pondered this over a bowl of MacBaren Vanilla Creme, this morning, another idea came to mind.

There are already a number of "we'll give you a fish"-types of organizations and groups.  These are the ones with which I have the most experience.  I have a personal friend who, during Katrina, organized the donation of three semi-loads of clothing.  Each piece was inspected, dry-cleaned/laundered, sealed in plastic bags, sized and sorted.   All of this was done by volunteers.  He had these delivered to the Hurricane-stricken area and was promptly told to "go away."  He did not have the "proper authorization" to be there.

Being the sneaky bastard type, he drove away, secured the use of a number of smaller vehicles and proceeded to attempt to get to the most affected areas that way.  Two of the vehicles were stopped, one at gunpoint, and the drivers told to turn around and return.  He, himself, was threatened with arrest and detention.  This was not a non-profit.  This was just some guy who has amazing organization skills, sufficient charisma and access to a lot of resources.

Now, what I might suggest is an off-shoot of something else entirely (and perhaps this is that of which Jack Spoke).   

I'm going to bastardize a military program's concept.  We can even assign it a cool acronym like DART (Disaster Area Response Team), DATT (Disaster Area Training Team) or DAST (Disaster Area Support Team) for the fun of it.

However, what this might be is not a "Give-a-fish" endeavour, rather it would be a "teach-to-fish" program. 

Utilizing the knowledge available in both the virtual TSP and on-site DA** team, training areas could be set up that teach people in the affected areas how to cope with the situation.  Things such as field expedient hygiene, food location and preparation, safe lighting options, etc. could be covered.   You could even organize smaller groups that work in the stricken area to help people overcome their own personal survival issues such as building an alternate shelter because their home has been destroyed.

I actually heard someone say during Katrina, "Great, I have clothes for a week, but I can't wash them."

They had no electricity to use their own washer/dryer, the laundromats were in the same situation and the water was. . .well. . horrible.  Teaching someone how to make the water safe and how to make a field-expedient "wash machine" could go a long way.  Likewise, teaching people not to cook their food in the kitchen on their propane BBQ Grill (and not using it as a heat source) may save a few lives, as well.

In other words, practical survival classes for the masses and an Advising Group for individuals.

Now, I do understand the desire to help people.  I also understand that it's ridiculous what happens in our overly-litigious society.  I am not a lawyer, but I still would be concerned that this is being led by intelligent, conscientious people wanting to help those in need.  The problem with most intelligent people who have a great deal of common sense is that they tend to underestimate the stupidity (willful or otherwise) of their fellow man.

I count myself as a person who has a modicum of brainpower.  I can count to 21 without having to take my clothes off.  But even I have recently gotten angry at the stupidity of people.  For example, I watched a segment on Fox News yesterday wherein an apparently physically-capable 50-year-old adult male stated that he was mad because FEMA hadn't come to his house and that the Red Cross hadn't brought him food.  He actually said ". . .this is ridiculous!" and proceeded to get angrier and angrier that someone wasn't giving him something. 

That same segment showed another, younger man complaining that someone in authority had condemned his house and that he and his kids were hiding in it because local authorities would allegedly seize his kids and throw them into Child Protective Services if they found out that the kids were still living there.  He proceeded to actually say something along the lines of ". . .why do I have to pay out of my pocket to fix my house?  That isn't fair!"

There was a thread here on TSP Forum that linked the story of one person's experience trying to help out post-Katrina.  I don't remember the whole story, but their church opened up one of it's facilities to house some displaced persons.  The people, rather than be thankful they had a roof over their heads and food in their stomachs, became even more demanding.  The poster (or the person in the link in the thread) shared the story that they wouldn't even change the roll of toilet paper when it ran out in the bathroom.  Rather, these people considered the small staff there to be nothing more than Hotel Clerks.

I'm not hating, here. It sounds like an interesting idea.  Again, perhaps I'm just jaded by the experience I've had in similar situations.  Perhaps something like an Advisory/Assistance Group that utilizes the adaptive brainpower and skills of TSP would be a greater benefit.

Sorry to douse the enthusiasm, but I'm a realist.  I'd rather look at all the problems that arise and work ways around it to maximize the potential benefits while protecting those who are willing to step forward and help.

Having the entity sued because of someone who doesn't have sense to pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel is an even worse downer.  "My wife and son died and I spent a week in the hospital.  The guy told me not to use the propane grill as a heating source for the house, but he didn't say nothing about not using a charcoal grill."

There are ways to help.  TSP'ers would be an excellent resource.  But you have to think about the repercussions and do what you can to protect yourself and the entity.

The Professor
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