Author Topic: I need suggestions  (Read 1347 times)

Offline blademan

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I need suggestions
« on: November 07, 2012, 08:14:04 PM »
Hello,

   I have this idea that has been kicking around in my head for a while and I just can't seem to figure out a way make it work.
   The idea, a sectional multi purpose walking/hiking/wading/climbing/survival staff.
   That's the basic idea. The final product will be a sectional staff that will have usefull items that could attach to the ends of the sections, there by allowing the sections of the staff to act as handles and minimizing the space thay some items would take in a pack or vehicle.
   The items I would like to attach would be, a paddle blade and handles, a shovel and a saw. Additionally a light source, (both battery powered and a torch) different end pieces for walking over different terrain. The problem I need help with is the method of connection. I saw a guy on instrucatables who did something pretty cool with copper slip fittings. I'm thinking that migh not be strong enough for what I want. 
   I hit on the idea of brass or steel quick disconnect fittings like you have for water hoses or air compressors and such. I think they would probably be strong enough, but two problems, all of the ones I have been able to find, swivel around when connected. This could be pretty unhandy when using a tool like a shovel or saw with it or if you are leaning hard on it and it turns you could fall and fall hard.
     So my question is two fold, does anyone know of quick disconnect fittings or something very similar that doesn't rotate? And or: does anyone have a different idea of how to connect the sections of a staff together as well as attaching the tools to them.
   I have already decided against a screw based method but if you have a version of that you think is a good idea, I will listen. I've spoken to other people about this and one thing I often hear, is not to try to get too much utility out of one item. I understand that point but this isn't supposed to be a primary but a redundancy and a space saving measure when you need to take hard to lug tools with big handles into the rough and aren't going to be using the hiking staff for hinking while you are using the sections as tool handles.
    I have a lot of other ideas for attachments for the sections, but I need a secure method of attaching the sections together and the tools to the sections when in use. Thanks for your you help forum members.
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Online endurance

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 08:50:31 PM »
Why are you against using something threaded?

I'd think for the sake of weight you'd want to use a pretty lightweight material, like fiberglass or even carbon fiber.  Even a hollow steel or brass tube is going to weigh a hell of a lot.

As a hiker/backpacker, weight is one of my primary concerns, so maybe I'm not your target demographic.  If not, who is?  Just a one-off for yourself or are you planning on taking this to market at some point.
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Offline blademan

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 11:30:58 PM »
Endurance,
  Thanks for the reply. I have considered other materials. I'm pretty much decided between wood or fiberglass. Weight isn't so much a drawback as it is a goal within a certain perameter. I'm not completely against a threaded option but if I went with that, I would want something that doesn't require lots of twisting, and has a positive locking mechanism to prevent unwanted twisting during use and doesn't reduce the ocer all strength much.
  I actually did some scaled down drawings of an all metal staff that was sectional to an almost absurd degree. I don't know where my drawings are to go see what joining method I envisioned. I decided against metal for the cost and also the weight along with the fact that metal is a very efficient conductor of heat, cold, electricity, and vibration.
    It does have good advantages but for right now, I'm going to at least prototype it in wood. And mainly, I want to do this for myself but down the road, I may try to offer them on a limited basis as custom made tools for people who want one.
   I've done a bunch of looking and there are some sectional staffs out there, but I can't find something quite like what I have in mind.
    I could just go with the quick disconnects and use eyelets brazed to the QDs and screwed into the sections just above and below the QDs and use a cotter pin to lock the staff together. This seems like a workable idea but has some problems in durability and ergonomics.
   I wouldn't really consider this to be a light or ultralight item.
 It might even be possible to use a sort of mortise and tennen (sp?) Method with a metal peg and cotter pin. A bit clumsy but secure. I'm sort of brain storming here so thanks for the input.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Online mxitman

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 12:53:55 AM »
What about the push pins that go into hollow tube?, I can't remember the trade name they are called by. I bought some from Mcmaster-Carr a few years back for a prototype. These are what you find in telescoping tubes to lock at different lengths...you press it in, spring loaded...but works good for mating up multitude of different devices...there are also some with threaded ball indents... that might work good for wood.
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Offline blademan

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 01:14:12 AM »
Like the way a telescoping aluminum cane or crutch works. Yeah that's one of the fron runners I just have to see if that will be strong enough. I've also thought about a magnetic option, it has some benefits for sure but its hard to implement.
   Thanks for the input.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline JohnDoel

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 01:25:50 AM »
I'm not sure about the shovel or an axe but the hollow tube with the spring loaded push pins in a hollow tube would definitely work for the others you've listed I'd be a bit worried about using the hollow metal tube just because I have something similar but for my vacuum and it has got a lot of dents in it.
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Offline blademan

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 08:38:48 PM »
Jerry,
   Dude,  [|||]> <[|||] that a double fist bump man! That first link was super cool. It reminded me of some stuff I already knew but had not applied to this idea of mine. And I think that I found my connection solution from this forum. Earlier today, I saw and ad banner on the forum for a hose and connector supply company that has just about everything hose related. I saw some connectors there called cam lock connectors. So I called they guy (didn't get his name) and after I told him what I was planning briefly and he had a good natured chuckle, he seemed to think they might work for me.
   They are a little awkward but they look strong enough and they hold fast and do not swivel, spin or turn once locked and look like they would be less likely to suddenly disconnect the way I have had quick disconnect fittings do in the past.
   Man that spade bit spear head was mean looking. Thanks again jerry, this was super helful. When I get it made, I will post pics and start taking orders because I know all the other gear junkies will want one. Just kidding, I'm not a production facility, but who knows.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Online endurance

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 08:47:47 PM »
Another idea for connecting sections would be the use of steel or aluminum tubing around the wood at the joints, possibly using two sizes, say a 1.5" OD tubing and a 1.5" ID tube that slide over each other with a pin that locks the pieces together.
"There are things that you don't question when your home always smells like baking bread."  From The Hunger Games

“No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.”   James Madison

Offline blademan

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 09:08:37 PM »
Endurance,
   That's a good idea too. I had a similar one, and was worried that the pins would get lost and thin hit on the idea of tethering them to the pole. Its a good solution, but adds complexity and snagging hazards in thick brush. Its still on the table, because I will probably include tethers for most of the attachments because you don't want yo be using your super cool omnistick of ultimate survival power as a oar and have your paddle fall off the end. Or the saw attachment to get pulled off when you are sawing an high branch and falls back in your face. Stuff like that will ruin your day. And your face. Thanks for the input.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.

Offline Jerry D Young

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 12:31:04 PM »
I know you want QD locking joints and not screw, but here a couple more options you might look at if th.e one you found doesn't.

This looks like a quick screw due to the coarse threads. Best of the ones I found earlier: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1677

But this one, for a screw joint, I think would be just about ideal. Short threads, but large diameter. I think it would be extremely stout. It would have to be to carry a flag in the wind. And it would look really good.

http://www.flagsexpress.com/indoor_parade/screw_joints.htm

Again, just my opinion.


Offline blademan

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Re: I need suggestions
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 02:03:40 PM »
Guys,
   This is super cool. I've got so many good ideas from this thread. I've got the staffs I'm going to make my prototype out of, some cheap staves I bought from a boy scout store. I am lucky enough to have one in my area. I would like to suggest that if anyone has a boyscout store that within any reasonable distance of you that you give them first look for your prepping gear. They have a real good selection and on the items they carry in common with wal mart and other stores, they usually have better prices. And they often have very good sales. Its open to the public and you don't have to be affiliated to shop there.
   I am not affiliated with them, I just prefer to shop there when I can.
    That being said, I would like to move on to suggestions for the material of the finished staff as well as the dimensions. Like I said, I have the prototype staves, and they are okay but @ $5 apiece unfinished, they aren't the highest quality and I would need to oil or seal or varnish them or something to keep them from degrading.

 This is what I am thinking: I happen to live just a few miles away from one of the better marital arts weapons and gear maker and distributiors, Century martial arts. They sell some full sized bo staffe that are finished and solid as hell. I owned an oak bo and used it in martial arts for ten years (not heavily) and it seems like a good choice. They also sell a white wax wood staff that I like the look of for this project. Both at durable but I have heard that wax wood is vulnerable to wood worms and I don't know if that's a problem in oklahoma. I am also considering fiberglass but I don't have any experience working it.
    So if anyone has any preference as to what wood or material they would use and why, I would like to hear (read) them. Thanks for all the help.
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival.
Fear is the mind killer.

Two rules for a happy life:
1. Never sling shit at an armed man.
2. Never stand next to someone who is slinging shit at an armed man.