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Author Topic: Information Technology Preppers?  (Read 3455 times)

Online Chemsoldier

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Information Technology Preppers?
« on: November 07, 2012, 09:59:46 PM »
Hurricane Sandy spawned multiple articles and references to people who were most upset with their loss of connectivity to the wired world view their phones, computers and tablets.

Is this an opportunity to recruit a new species of prepper?  Lots of us got into prepping through a niche that was a personal interest even before we fully "woke up".  Some were just fascinated by primitive living skills and reading about the mountain men...and it led to prepping.  Others were gun enthusiasts, ham radio nuts, gardening junkies, liked reading books about old timey things the Foxfire series.  These things led us down the road to comprehensive prepping and we still prep more and better in those areas than others. 

So can we start to attract more preppers through helping the wired community set up more resilient and self-sufficient connections to the larger world?  Generally those of us who try to be more self-sufficient look down our noses a bit and those who are so avowedly wired in (which we express though derisive comments on an internet forum, heehee).  But why not embrace helping them prep for their passion instead of telling them to just get ready to do without?  You know, the wife and I love Indian food but we dont just say "well that aint going to happen and we just need to get used on Oatmeal."  Hell no, we have vaccum sealed curry powder and other spices and are ready to while away the apocalypse eating nan and vindaloo made with freeze dried chicken and dehydrated potatoes!  So perhaps we should start reaching out with ideas we have already discussed on the forum on  Solar panels, back-up batteries, satellite phone connections, HAM connections to the net and other ways our wired brethren can stay wired in a disaster.  I dont know how much I have to contribute since I am one of those people who spent several minutes searching for the "any" key on my computer once, but perhaps a TSP episode and some threads here on info prepping (to add to some already excellent threads) would be in order.  Once a person starts thinking preparedness in one area, it is but a short trip to the happy land of prepping. 
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Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 10:07:39 PM »
That is an interesting question.  There's probably a good-tie in with ham/internet gateways, where chunks of intact infrastructure can communicate with each other, bypassing the areas that aren't working due to whatever bad thing has happened.

I can think of one IT guy in particular I need to have a talk with...
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Offline Thom

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 11:57:57 PM »
Judging by the "What's your job" thread, there are quote a few of us geeks on here.  When I was in the Navy the first time, we set up a BBS between our frigate and two other ships using the HF systems in radio.  As a Radioman and the only person onboard our ship that knew anything about computers then, it was only a matter of time. Although I don't know if it's possible to get on the interwebs via HAM, but I do know it can be used to connect via "old school modems" or, as we called them back then...modems.
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Offline idelphic

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 11:47:28 AM »
You are not going to get the interwebs on HAM...you can have a simple text based system on HAM: HF or VHF/UHF..  There is just to many factors to try to send graphics at the level we are getting used to over 1200 or 9600bps systems...

There are plenty of off the shelf equipment that could be used to build a mesh network using both omni and directed RF...  Power isn't as big of a deal as setting up the network and getting to a feed..  You're basically setting up multiply hot spots and directing them to a feed or multi-feed point - sometimes called a bridge.
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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 12:28:24 PM »
For years all we (civilian consumers) had were modems that dialed into BBSes.  Assuming copper wires were in still in place, and a detailed pre-plan existed, a handful of geeks could be communicating using 1995 technology. 

Back in high school, a buddy of mine ran a BBS on a 2nd home phone line in his parent's house.  I forget the platform, but daily it would dial out to a number of other BBSes and aggregate all the message posts with other forums.

By today's standards, the latency of information is terrible, but it still would beat the pony express for exchanging large amount of text.

I wonder if stocking a few 14.4K modems would be a dumb idea?  Maybe free if you found them.

Offline idelphic

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 12:47:35 PM »
Eh - I don't know SH - the biggest problem with going back to the BBS days is that it relied on copper..  Which means a central switching station.  If the station is underwater or gone, doesn't have power then the copper is useless.

And it's not just the central station you have to power...  copper uses repeaters.. and they will also need power. 
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Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 12:49:28 PM »
For years all we (civilian consumers) had were modems that dialed into BBSes.  Assuming copper wires were in still in place, and a detailed pre-plan existed, a handful of geeks could be communicating using 1995 technology. 
Yep, that's when I first got online, I had a screaming fast 9600 modem.  I would dial up to a BBS and play Trade Wars for hours at a time.

I'm sure that some of the brilliant hams out there can come up with a way to do a BBS over the radio.
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Offline idelphic

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 02:19:55 PM »
Yep, that's when I first got online, I had a screaming fast 9600 modem.  I would dial up to a BBS and play Trade Wars for hours at a time.

I'm sure that some of the brilliant hams out there can come up with a way to do a BBS over the radio.
I still play Trade Wars

There was software to run a RF BBS..  There was a TNC modem that attached to the computer and the radio.  I still have one. With the right laptop, hand held radio and such - all could run on 12v and solar.

Most of the Packet BBS's ran on DOS.. I don't know if anyone has kept the software current.
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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 04:56:14 PM »
Eh - I don't know SH - the biggest problem with going back to the BBS days is that it relied on copper..  Which means a central switching station.  If the station is underwater or gone, doesn't have power then the copper is useless.

And it's not just the central station you have to power...  copper uses repeaters.. and they will also need power.

Good point - if the copper phone lines work, that means there's power, which may mean fiber backbones are also in working order.

Regarding BBS software - while I can't name from memory, I'm almost certain there was a linux clone of some of the popular DOS implementations.  The reason that's of interest, there are many consumer electronics that run linux internally.  Everything from Roku set top boxes to Linksys Wifi routers.  Lots of those already run off modest DC current, and would be ideal for something like this.

Taking a step back, we still wouldn't have anything approaching the web - it'd be closer to very slow text messaging without the any of the usability. 

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 05:21:17 PM »
What about storing entire websites?  I recall Jack talking about some way to set up a system where you could store everything from wikipedia, for instance, on a single 1TB hard drive.  Anyone know the ways and means to do something like that?  I'd sure love to store some of the threads here on TSP (like the ones on gardening and permaculture in particular).  Overall, there's dozens of sites I'd love to have backed up onto a hard drive, just in case.  What software does this require and where can I get it?
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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 05:31:42 PM »
...I'd sure love to store some of the threads here on TSP (like the ones on gardening and permaculture in particular). ...

Try using the Print button at the bottom to display the entire thread with simplified formatting, then save the page to a file.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 07:28:29 PM »
Taking a step back, we still wouldn't have anything approaching the web - it'd be closer to very slow text messaging without the any of the usability.
I think that the value of something like this is not to get on the Internet.  I would think that this sort of thing would be to be able to remain in contact with like-minded folks and to exchange information.  Things like if the government shuts down the Internet. 
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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 07:39:20 PM »
Rather than resurrecting old MS-DOS BBS software, it seems like Usenet and e-mail would be good candidates.  Both predate the modern high-speed Internet.  I know we had a local guy here 20 years ago running Usenet and e-mail via a twice-daily 9600bps modem phone call, so it can be done.

(I ran a single-line Wildcat BBS for a few years in the early 90s.  Ahh, the good old days...)

Offline Thom

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2012, 12:34:09 AM »
OK, now you folks have got me to thinking.  If there were a few "librarians" set up, then we could set up a bbs-like network over HAM/HF and then we could request and transfer pertinent files on demand...so to speak.  Man, you people are going to make me get into HAM now...dammit!
I'm tired of having to filter the crazy out of the news.

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 01:03:28 AM »
I can think of one IT guy in particular I need to have a talk with...

Talked to him today (well, yesterday now).  When I mentioned "ham/internet gateway" he could hardly hold still.  Now I've got to get up to speed....
Build it or buy it, start it up and try it, maybe even fry it.  Otherwise you'll never know if it works.

I swear, there are times it seems like "Baofeng" is Cantonese for "hot mess."

Offline pokeshell

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2012, 02:53:06 AM »
Well, internet can be done over a $30 pair of murs (sp?) walkie talkies. In about 2 hours, I won a bet over it last summer. Getting a page to load using my legally hacked iphone as a modem, 2 walkie talkins and my laptop. I loaded Idrudge.com.  So, assuming people have phones, and ham, and a geek, it can be done. But yeah think modems, BBS, serial cables, comodor 64 text and SLOW.

2600 hacker magazine covered mesh wifi networks about a year ago. It was a article as a backup to the US shutting down the internet, but I saw it as a prepper idea. The name or SSID of the wifi can give instructions, as well as default to a page with text instructions.

I have spent many hours thinking about this as an Idea, and have even played a little with some old wireless that can be purchased for $10 (802.11B).

I know there are some laws that would probably be broke, as most internet traffic is at least somewhat encrypted, and broadcasting over HAM seems even more illegal and risky.

I like the idea, and would be willing to give some pointer to someone with time to burn.

I read a report about how someone pulled a few boat batteries in Statten island and was able to charge 30-50 phones.

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 10:37:21 AM »
I've noted a couple unique use cases from this thread.  Each is a unique problem needing a solution.

#1 Exchange of information during a long term internet outage (digital library)
Most all the ideas mentioned lend themselves to this, but so might bike couriers delivering hard drives.  Latency doesn't strictly matter if you want permaculture manuals, so 9600 baud, and HAM are all options

We can all start doing #1 today.  As was suggested, there are utilities to save off wikipedia and a variety of methods to crawl forums and capture the contents.  You can store this on $10 USB drives, make redundant copies and distribute to friends and neighbors.

#2 Real time digital comms over IP protocol
I think Wifi mesh networks, packet radio might all work.  Time sensitive alerts like "the zombies are approaching", where a daily digest isn't timely enough

#2 takes more planning.  Inevitably these will be limited to local communities.  While it's feasible for an urban corridor with line of sight RF to basically be connected as a giant LAN, we'd lack the backbone networks that traverse mountain passes and large distances.

So we might end up with a hybrid of the two.  Communities may setup wifi mesh networks only limited by the RF reception, and inter-connectivity between these communities might rely on some high latency transport (whether it's HAM or pony express).

Offline idelphic

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2012, 10:47:23 AM »
Try using the Print button at the bottom to display the entire thread with simplified formatting, then save the page to a file.
I've done this several times...  however in some cases - depending on the site software and or configuration it does not load images... which is sometimes the guiding factor in being able to really understand the text.

Rather than resurrecting old MS-DOS BBS software, it seems like Usenet and e-mail would be good candidates.  Both predate the modern high-speed Internet.  I know we had a local guy here 20 years ago running Usenet and e-mail via a twice-daily 9600bps modem phone call, so it can be done.

(I ran a single-line Wildcat BBS for a few years in the early 90s.  Ahh, the good old days...)

I know there are linux based systems..  it's not all that difficult to build..  if you are a programer - which I am not.  Something like the new Raspberry PI device or other similar boxes could be used.  Though I am sure there are tons of older computers / laptops and Toughbooks that could be found for cheap to run DOS on...  Most of the systems needed the DB9 Serial port,.. and older computers are more likely to have them, Especially when you are talking about laptops.

Current and some homebrewed directional antennas will get you mile coverage,.. dropping by to HF will give you hundred to thousand mile coverage..  the Packet Ham radio boards used VHF/UHF for the local connections and HF for the Backbone...  You can even do Slow Scan TV (SSTV) and WeFAX.
I think that the value of something like this is not to get on the Internet.  I would think that this sort of thing would be to be able to remain in contact with like-minded folks and to exchange information.  Things like if the government shuts down the Internet. 
Download everything you can.. buy large amounts of paper and toner, a solid high volume printer and plenty of parts.
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Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2012, 11:41:02 AM »
I know there are linux based systems..  it's not all that difficult to build..  if you are a programer - which I am not. 
Linux is very easy now a days.  If you can install Windows, you can install Linux.  Put the CD in and answer the questions.

Quote
Something like the new Raspberry PI device or other similar boxes could be used.  Though I am sure there are tons of older computers / laptops and Toughbooks that could be found for cheap to run DOS on... 
I have 2 Raspberry Pis on order.  The benefit of the new small boxes like the RaspPi is that they use very little power.  The RaspPi uses about 2 watts per hour.  The old desktop power supplies are usually in the 200W to 450W range.  Where the RaspPi can be powered by solar and batteries, not so with the old desktops.  Even older laptops would use a lot more power.

Quote
Most of the systems needed the DB9 Serial port,.. and older computers are more likely to have them, Especially when you are talking about laptops.
There are serial to USB converters and cables that could be used.
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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2012, 01:25:39 PM »
There are no technical barriers to anything that's been presented.  There are merits to different approaches, but someone needs to focus and plan out "what" we need to solve, and worry slightly less on "how".

The internet started as a set of standard protocols that were explained in a single large document, and look at all the crazy stuff that's been built off that?

Offline pokeshell

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2012, 11:35:04 PM »
There are no technical barriers to anything that's been presented.  There are merits to different approaches, but someone needs to focus and plan out "what" we need to solve, and worry slightly less on "how".

The internet started as a set of standard protocols that were explained in a single large document, and look at all the crazy stuff that's been built off that?

Are there legal barriers in the US? Starting with windows XP sp2, windows 7, and just about all flavors of iphone and android, most packets are fairly secure. I know things like wire shark, heck there are firefox plugins to crack low level security, but wouldn't be illegal to broad cast over ham without a specialty license?

Windows 7 can not even be export to much of the world due to built in security. We had issues with importation to China, India and Turkey. My understanding is ham does not allow for much security at all.

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Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2012, 10:44:59 AM »
I just stumbled upon RMS Express – Secure email over Amateur Radio

Several of the comments point out that in the US, encrypted traffic is currently illegal. 
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Offline romeojuliethotel

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2012, 12:00:38 PM »
What about storing entire websites?  I recall Jack talking about some way to set up a system where you could store everything from wikipedia, for instance, on a single 1TB hard drive.  Anyone know the ways and means to do something like that?  I'd sure love to store some of the threads here on TSP (like the ones on gardening and permaculture in particular).  Overall, there's dozens of sites I'd love to have backed up onto a hard drive, just in case.  What software does this require and where can I get it?

Hi endurance,
There are ways to pull the Wikipedia database, sans photos, illustrations and such.  The total size is around 9GB and it downloads in a OpenZIM file format, meaning you'll need an application running to correctly display the large file.  One application to consider is called Kiwix ( http://www.kiwix.org/index.php/Main_Page/en ).  Of course, you'll need to download this file via torrents using an application like utorrent ( http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/utorrent_portable ).


Another option is to use an application that crawls the site and saves the pages as text (.txt) files.  HTTTrack ( http://www.httrack.com/ ) will work, but again, it is cumbersome.

I'd be happy to assist, just reply and let me know if you or other forum members have questions.

Offline romeojuliethotel

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2012, 12:25:45 PM »
I just stumbled upon RMS Express – Secure email over Amateur Radio.

Several of the comments point out that in the US, encrypted traffic is currently illegal.

I am a ham with a General-class ticket and I've used RMS Express in many modes with my radios.  If you have a node in your area serving email traffic then you can connect using VHF/UHF.  I've also used HF to send and receive email, connecting to nodes several thousand miles away.  It is important to point out that this service is for email only and not for browsing the internet.  More on that at the end of my comments.  My thoughts on Winlink as it pertains to this thread are:

1) It is extremely handy and I would consider it as an option in an emergency situation, but it can be a bear sometimes due to antenna issues, atmospheric condition and your operating location
2) All in all, you are connecting to a radio that is connected to a computer with internet access to provide email routing capabilities.  If the emergency is isolated to your local geographic area, this may be a viable means of email communication
3) RMS Express and Winlink do not have to be used with a radio, if you have internet access you can operate using the telnet mode where it simply routes email via your internet connection.  This mode is handy for simple functionality tests and to learn how the email client behaves
4) You can pull weather and some other information from the email client.  Ships at sea, small and large vessels, use Winlink over HF to gather weather reports and low-end weather maps.  I haven't seen any capabilities to retrieve news services, but you could find something to email you news or information to your Winlink email address, something akin to Google Alerts and such.  I'm sure there is a way.
5) You need to have a valid ham radio licenses to use this service.  In doing so, encrypted communications are strictly forbidden.  This includes encrypted text and encrypted attachments.

This service is a wonderful addition to the skill of a ham radio operator.  A neighborhood would be better served to build a mesh wireless network for local, encrypted communications rather than using ham radio if you are that concerned about OpSec.  Overall, keep it simple and and as Smurf Hunter pointed out, "...someone needs to focus and plan out "what" we need to solve, and worry slightly less on "how"."

Now, for internet communications over ham radio, look into a service called D-Star ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-STAR ).  In general, it is a proprietary, digital service of linked internet gateways.  "Proprietary" meaning only certain brands (I think only ICOM... could be mistaken) support this type of connectivity.  Chris Matthieu's YouTube channel demonstrates this beyond my forum posting skills, check it out - ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbMUGQQ2Pn4 )

In final, I think this is a cool thread and it is right up my alley, so please post your ideas.  There doesn't have to be one single way, there could be multiple things one could and should consider.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 12:43:15 PM by romeojuliethotel »

Offline pokeshell

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2012, 09:51:34 PM »
Is there an easy and cheap way to shield USB or flash drives from an EMP or solar flare? Would something like this really work?

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/EMP-Faraday-Bags-c128.htm


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Offline doublehelix

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 02:40:48 PM »
Is there an easy and cheap way to shield USB or flash drives from an EMP or solar flare? Would something like this really work?

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/EMP-Faraday-Bags-c128.htm


You need multiple layers with insulation in between to be really effective.  The bags are a good start, but put them inside another layer of shielding.

Also check the spec's on the bags.  Some are ESD for static discharge only and won't handle a quick all-spectrum surge.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 12:04:38 AM »
I think there are many parallels between surviving in an increasingly virtual world that can be used to help wake people up to the realities of surviving in the physical world.  As more aspects of our lives are digitized, many of the things that previously required physical storage (music, video, photos, documents) are now stored on hard drives or memory chips, either on physical devices that we control, or, increasingly, in the cloud.  Thinking about what is involved in securing this important data is an enormously beneficial "survival" exercise, in my opinion.  Especially since I don't see technology disappearing anytime soon, no matter how crappy things get.

The topic of digital backups, as well as computer and power redundancy, beautifully illustrates the whole concept of 2 is 1, and 1 is none.  If all your data resides on a single physical drive, it's not backed up, because that drive is guaranteed to fail, probably when you can least afford to have it go down, and, when it does, your digital assets are gone.  The loss could be on the order of the trivial, like the pictures from last weekends frat party, to the serious, such as critical business files that impact your ability to earn a living.  The consensus now is that it's not really backed up until that data resides on two other drives, besides the main device, and one of those backups should reside off site, because if your house burns down and you lose the computer and backup drive, you're hosed.  I usually have have 4 backups, two onsite and 2 on separate cloud sites. 

Understanding password protection and the basics of encryption is a critical skill in safely managing and interacting with others in the digital world is.  Yes, it's complicated and the math is hard, but you don't need to understand it at that level in order to use it effectively.  I guess some would refer to it as "opsec" in the survival/prepper world, but I thinks it's just common sense.  Why would you want anyone to know more about you and yours than you want them to know?  Short of a "Revolution" style event, we will be in an IT world, for better or worse, for the duration.  If we think it's bad now, we're just at the tip of the iceberg, and for every technological leap that makes our lives better, it will likely also represent another way for "them" to gain information about us, either in the abstract or the very specific.  We disregard internet and related technology at our own peril.  Look at what happened last week.  The head of the freakin' CIA was incidentally caught with his pants down by an FBI investigation into what amounts to an email cat fight initiated by a woman jealous of his attention.  That's freaky as hell!  If the 4-star head of the CIA can't figure out how to manage his online personal life, just think where the rest of us are at.

My vision of the SHTF is probably a lot more boring than most.  I don't really subscribe to the total system collapse apocalypse, not on a global or national scale, but certainly possible at the regional level for short periods.  I'm more worried about a technologically advanced dystopia, where those who don't understand how to use technology will be increasingly at a disadvantage compared to those who do.  Some will say that they'd rather go off the grid in this type of situation, but I wouldn't, and I think in many ways those returning to a peasant existence will find themselves at a disadvantage, and potentially even a target.  Maybe that's the way to go, I don't know, but I don't see technology going away.  The genie is out of the bottle and globally we have reached critical mass when it comes to our desire for and dependence on technology.  Just look at the third world, where you've got people barely sophisticated enough to not poop in the same stream they get their water from, and they're using cell phones to better their lives.  If an ass-backwards goatherd in a shit-hole like Afghanistan has cell service, what's the likelihood that we'll be digging out our ham sets and trying to figure out how to string together a bulletin board using HF?  I just don't see it, but I guess time will tell.
In times of change learners inherit the earth and the learned find themselves equipped for a world that no longer exists.   Eric Hoffer

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.  Voltaire

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Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2012, 08:06:02 PM »
This thread reminded me of the Cory Doctorow short story, When SYSADMINS Ruled the Earth, about IT guys trying to keep the internet online while the world's going to hell outside their operation centers.  It's a good read.
In times of change learners inherit the earth and the learned find themselves equipped for a world that no longer exists.   Eric Hoffer

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.  Voltaire

Comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

Offline Adam B.

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2012, 10:12:31 AM »
Quote
Try using the Print button at the bottom to display the entire thread with simplified formatting, then save the page to a file.

I printed out a book once awhile back and it took up so much ink / paper I assume the "free" book ended up costing me $50 in ink/paper by the time it was done!

Just my $.02 there.

A laser printer is much, much, cheaper per-page — but the last time I ever had to buy a toner cartridge it cost much more than an inkjet printer AND spare ink cartridges would (about $200+). However, you get THOUSANDS of prints per cartridge vs. "hundreds" in a typical inkjet cartridge.
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Offline Mountain State Prepper

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Re: Information Technology Preppers?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2012, 10:32:13 AM »
I have a significant amount of experience with disaster recovery solutions for database, in particular Oracle and MySQL.   It's what I do for a living.  I second the thoughts to those here discussing the "2 is 1" mindset.

Of course, in my line of work we are really only considering geographical impacts...such as a hurricane, blizzard, power outage, civil unrest, etc.   We replicate, in their entirety all critical production systems across the country in another datacenter.

Reading this thread now has me wondering about the "off the grid" type solutions.   I'm behind the curve with the capability of HAM as an internet gateway.  Could these HAM repeater stations also serve as replication points for the data you are proposing to keep?   A "HAM Cloud"?   

I've now got something else to read up on!    This is a GREAT thread!
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