Author Topic: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions  (Read 2194 times)

Offline Hootie

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TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« on: November 13, 2012, 03:29:38 PM »
At the suggestion of Mr Bill, I have started this topic.

Let the group know your concerns and maybe we can find a way to mitigate the risk.
Feel free to be a pessimist, just don't be a hater  ;)
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Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 04:30:57 PM »
At the suggestion of Mr Bill, I have started this topic.

Just so y'all know, I'm not intending to be directly involved in TSP-DRT due to my utter lack of qualifications and abilities. 8)  As a moderator, though, I do have this suggestion:

In the early planning for a big project, it's good to have a "Yes Session" (brainstorming about all the things you'd like to do), and it's also good to have a "No Session" (brainstorming about everything that might go wrong) -- and it's really good to keep them separate.  Both are valuable, but in different ways.  Combine them too early, and each tends to kill the other.

So this thread is the "No Session" (or perhaps one of several).

I'll shut up now and watch the smart people work.

Offline heliotropicmoth

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 11:42:37 AM »
On a lighter, darker note. Us in the medical responder world, with darker senses of humor than most, use DRT as a off radio code to each other.

"Hey bill"

"Yeah Frank"

"That guy is DRT"

"What's that mean bill?"

"That guy is Dead Right There."

A dark sense of humor comes with the job.  ;)

Offline rikkrack

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 12:07:17 PM »
 :popcorn: to stay updated
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Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 09:01:40 PM »
because i am lazy, i gathered everyones concerns for the orginal DRT post...


  • We can't have untrained people who are answerable to no one volunteering to do work without our direct supervision.
  • issues of access and liability
  • government will track me
  • peanut allergy
  • how do we do funding
  • how do we do IDs
  • getting attacked or beat up
  • When you have a tired / hungry group and start handing out food, etc - it can very quickly turn into a riot as people are not always patient. How do you protect the supplies and the volunteers?
  • In situation like Sandy, where you can't get food, lodging or fuel - is the unit self sufficient and do you have the resources to support operations. What is resupply strategy. How long can you be on station before you have to leave.
  • someone going to sue me
  • Many states such as Alabama DO NOT HAVE GOOD SAMARITAN LAWS to protect you.
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Online The Professor

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 09:33:03 PM »
Where does the money come from?  Operations, especially extended, are expensive.

Are donations deductible? Can people even donate to DRT?  If so, is it considered "income" or will DRT be Non-Profit? In other words, corporate structure?

How do we limit liability to the organization AND the members?

What sort of certifications are necessary?  Does DRT establish mandatory certification? Does DRT establish proprietary certifications for members?  If the latter, who maintains records of certification?

How do we liaise (if at all) with existing/established organizations or command elements?  Get caught in a secured/protected area and you may wish you had talked to someone before showing up.  Think about those horror stories where local authorities have secured areas.  If you're found there and don't have a legitimate reason (again, define "legitimate"), member may be held as a "looter" or "person of interest."  Who, then, pays for legal fees?

Insurance issues (e.g., if a member gets injured/sick while conducting operations as a direct result of said operation),  who pays? If the individual, will DRT require proof of insurance from each member to participate?

Membership: What is the DRT definition of a member?

Insurance issues: If a DRT member gets sued, does he/she enjoy any particular protection?

Logistics: What organizational equipment will be needed?  Where will it be stored?  How will it get to affected area?  Who pays?  Who pays for storage and insurance? Who is responsible for maintaining chain-of-custody?

Logistics cont'd: while deployed, how is the supply train maintained? How will DRT members be housed/fed/secured?  How is this obtained? From the organization or does the individual self-supply?

Organizational structure: what sort of chain-of-command?  How are people selected for established positions? How do you install/remove people from those positions?  What are the job descriptions? Who decides appropriate duties/assignments?

Security: DRT will have lots of goodies.  How will it protect those goodies?  How will it protect the members?  What happens if a DRT team is sent to Illinois and has to deal with a "marauding gang?"  Firearms are heavily restricted (not even allowed to have certain types unless a citizen of the state, even then, they require a special ID and cannot carry a handgun.  If a "curtilage" is established, they're not allowed to bring a firearm into state unless all necessary paperwork is authorized and completed).

I could go on.

The Professor

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Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 09:41:37 PM »

I could go on.


go Professor go!

seriously, I think before anyone gets an DRT ID (if that ever happens), they should have answer these questions for themselves. Kind of a 1 part : judgment of character, and 1 part: you should think about this before you deploy.

Keep it up, because i would rather think about it now then be surprised later.
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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 09:48:15 PM »
Well, part of the problem is we first need a mission statement as to what the DRT is expected to accomplish, what it's scope is, and what determines a successful "mission."

Until that happens, we can bat ideas around all day, most of which will be inapplicable and wholly speculative.

The Professor
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Offline Oniwaban

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 10:08:35 PM »
We can't have untrained people who are answerable to no one volunteering to do work without our direct supervision.
Generally accepted training, Including and introduction to command structure. C.E.R.T.
issues of access and liability
Generally accepted training, do not practice outside your scope of training.
government will track me
Get over it. Just because your paranoid doesn't mean your not being followed. This is the world we live in today.
peanut allergy
Basic knowledge of how to address anaphylaxis. First Aid Training. Most people who have a known peanut allergy will have an epipen.
how do we do funding
Funding should be supplemental. Individuals willing to help wont be worried about who is picking up the tab. They will react with what they have on hand.
how do we do IDs
Personal ID not required. (Outside your normal Photo ID) Showing up with proper Personal Protective Equipment will be all the appearance of belonging you need.
getting attacked or beat up
Buddy system and reliable communication.
When you have a tired / hungry group and start handing out food, etc - it can very quickly turn into a riot as people are not always patient. How do you protect the supplies and the volunteers?
Reliable communication. Knowledge of how to communicate with authorities and other groups in a Grid Down situation. Look up NIFOG to learn more about this.
In situation like Sandy, where you can't get food, lodging or fuel - is the unit self sufficient and do you have the resources to support operations. What is resupply strategy. How long can you be on station before you have to leave.
Come prepared with everything you need. Do not deliver victims to the disaster. No point in being there any longer if you have exhausted your resources. Communication with people rotating in and out.
someone going to sue me
Training, do not practice outside your scope of training.
Many states such as Alabama DO NOT HAVE GOOD SAMARITAN LAWS to protect you.
Training, do not practice outside your scope of training.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 05:46:30 AM »
FUNDING

I thought I would put it here as I had some thoughts about this the other day. (you may notice I keep coming back to food  ;))

IF the DRT were to get tax exempt status and IF the DRT bought a 'mobile kitchen' (which I think is a good idea as it's self contained) and IF qualified people volunteered to run the 'mobile kitchen' at events DURING NON DISASTER TIMES, the profits could be used to fund the providing of food during disasters. I know if I had a choice between two food vendors at an event, both with good food, and 1 had profits going to help others, I would choose the one that helped a charity I believed in.

You could also have just straight donations at these events and gain some fee promotions out of it.

Offline nitehawg

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 08:01:33 AM »
While surfing the web I discovered a site from a now defunct National Disaster Resonse Team (NDRT.org).
I think that the honcho team would do well to check out this site as it has already developed many things that, with modification, we could adapt to our team.  I know it's a sort of a downer that this team folded, however I always like utilizing whatever resources are out there.

Just a thought.

Offline Big_Al

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 09:05:21 AM »
GTA 90-01-020 Defense Support to Civil Authorities is a guidebook for DOD support to civil authorities in disaster response. Could be used as a foundation for a brainstorming session.

I'm interested but new to the forums. Here are some ideas, please consider what is useful and discard what is not.

Conduct video teleconferences to hash out scope of work.

Facilitate local organizations to do good work during disaster relief, be the person behind the curtain.
i.e. through churches.

Support the local police (and govt) provide them with the tools they need such as survival needs for their families, radio backup, electrical backup, auto mechanic support, etc. Work as a "proxy" through local organizations to allow them to do their jobs effectively. EMT, hospital support by providing communication, power generation, liaison. Provide 1,000's of gals. of reverse osmosis clean water to such organizations.

Helicopter, ATVs, flat bottom boats, rubber rafts.
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Offline Big_Al

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 11:59:25 AM »
A suggestion mission statement:
DRT is a 501 3 c organization to facilitate rapid civilian assistance to county level govt and private organizations in order to provide basic needs to local authorities, their families, and their peers, allowing these authorities to conduct their charter.

Concept:  provide personal assistance to county sheriff's department and (water/sewer commissioner?) Provide food, water, shelter, power generation to the deputies and sheriff families.  Provide personal assistance to hospital staff and EMT as needed.

Criteria:  disaster area needs to be accessible from 2 land routes, and 1 air corridor.  Disaster area local govt gives approval for DRT and scope is defined in negotiations.
"you can do everything right and still fail, chance and the enemy get a vote"
Old Afghan Proverb
Give an American a fish, he will return the favor by giving you multi million dollar contracts.
Teach an American to fish, he gets jealous that you knew something he did not, and calls in a drone strike and kills you and your family.

Offline markl32

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 12:17:16 PM »
FUNDING

IF the DRT were to get tax exempt status and IF the DRT bought a 'mobile kitchen' (which I think is a good idea as it's self contained) and IF qualified people volunteered to run the 'mobile kitchen' at events DURING NON DISASTER TIMES, the profits could be used to fund the providing of food during disasters...

Brilliant! 

It would probably make double in an recovered area that the DRT previously helped.

Offline JohnB

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 10:12:31 AM »
I would like to help here in Western PA.

Offline Hootie

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 03:22:15 PM »
I work for corner drug store and get 10% - 30% OTC drugs and supplies. It may not be much, but every bit helps.
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Offline JustWill

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 02:02:54 PM »
This is my two cents from some experience. I have responded to very large disasters and know that Proffessor is correct on everything he has said.  So, my input to get around this is very simple and can provide a lot of help legally.  We should look at a group that is set up of friends to help friends.  If we start to plan an organization on this means we can get around alot of the red tape. We send in 5 to 20 people to help repaire a friend's house and happen to help the entire neighborhood.  This way we can stay on their land legally, we have a place to focus on and will get less of a look at by big gov.

I think at this stage everyone is think too big, lets focus on the small things we can do to help out a fellow prepper in need.  Granted they may not need alot of help but by helping out thier neighborhood we are helping them out and may convert others to be better prepaired. Sorry for the misspelling and if I ramble, this head cold is getting the better of me.

Offline DeltaEchoVictor

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »
Ugh, I do this stuff for a living guys.

I admire the noble nature of this cause, but wow, could Jack have picked anything larger in scale, lol. 

I've been watching this develop since I discovered your mission a few weeks ago & have been listening to the podcast Jack did about this to see what his vision is vs. the reality of getting this done.

I think this can work but I'm gonna need a little time to put everything I know (including funding issues, tax exempt status, liability & personnel issues, the list goes on) into a concise format. 

None of the issues are insurmountable, but some of them are very time consuming & labor intensive. It takes roughly a year to get Federal not for profit, tax exempt status completed alone...just to give you an idea.

I've been involved in EMS & search and rescue since 1996 as both an officer & a ground pounder.  My team split from local & federal EMA management approximately 4 years ago so we could be autonomous. However, being an autonomous entity brings about it's own set of issues & we can talk about that later.

Let me put together my thoughts on what we need to do initially to get started & ill start another thread for that in here.
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Offline Cranberryrose55

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Re: TSP DRT worries and concerns, and possible solutions
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2013, 01:58:33 PM »
I was hoping the TSP Dirt was going to be post #16 said.  In San Jose, CA, while CA does a lot wrong, San Jose is trying to set up  and train neighborhood 1st responders to check on people, know how to rescue people under rubble,  some 1st aid and how to put out fires.   I was hoping the TSP Dirt designed to meet  up and help your neighbor by state and local area.   Maybe one TSP Dirt paid person to coordinate a call tree.  Hubby and I tried search and rescue with our German Shepherd.  We had our training through them.

Why not use the FREE training already available?
San Jose already has already free training.  Maybe find out what free training is available by city.  Joining search and rescue and get trained through them, however, the CA commitment required is steep every SAT and monthly the whole weekend.

Without training-
 People getting lost because they can't read a map.  Some areas don't have coverage for cell phones. GPS doesn't work in some areas like Death Valley, CA.  People rioting at the food distribution stations is beyond volunteerism; my friend in the Red Cross has told me stories.