Ammo shortages (2012 - 2013)? What are you seeing out there?

[BiggBake]

Great link!  Thanks!

[Bennington1776]

Great link

[Canadian Prepper]

Those are some frightening prices, though some of the backordered items offer the hopes of a return to sanity.

The timing of the Sandy Hook tragedy just before Christmas, as the gun industry was ramping down for the holidays and all the gun control talk that followed created a lot more uncertainty than had it occured at another part of the year, and now we're into a season where ammunition manufacturers have traditionally directed a bulk of their production towards government contracts before going back to civilian production.

As a Canadian, I've been fortunate that our gunshops haven't been hit with the panic that afflicted the US, and most of us have had the time to top up on any gaps in our personal ammo stockpiles without paying extra or shopping around like mad just to find things. Nevertheless, we also have to plan for the fact that once our US supplies run out, that we can expect nothing until at least a couple of months after the manufacturers have caught up to US demand. So minus a few cases of shotshells for trap and .22 Magnum (for which my closest dealer has lots of stock and only a few buyers), I minimally needed to ensure enough ammunition for the next two years (assuming that I'll shoot about twice a month) plus  some reserve.

[NWPilgrim]

I went gun stuff shopping yesterday in Oregon.  Cabela's had a surprisingly good selection of long arms, some pistols and ammunition.  Same story at a Portland area place called Fisherman's Supply.

Self-defense ammo is very scarce.  Remington Golden Saber seemed the most available with some HydraShok, CorBon and Hornady. Speer Gold Dot and Winchester PDX11/Ranger is non-existent.  These larger sporting goods places had limits on number of boxes of ammo permitted per purchase.  There was bulk ammo in everything EXCEPT .223 of course.  Fisherman's had some AE223 lac box for $13/20.  About twice what it was in October.  Cabela's was even selling primers (mostly Federal) with a limit if 2,000.  Hardly any .224" bullets except the 40 gr variety. Did not see any 12 ga buckshot or slugs, and very limited .22LR.

Both places had at least a couple of XD, M&P, HK, and SIGs, and LOTS of 1911s at only slightly elevated prices.  Fisherman's actually had the only Glock I have seen for a while, a Gen3 G22 still at $519.  Now is a great time to buy a 1911.

DA Revolvers are as scarce as pistols.  Every place has a couple of .357 and snub-nosed .38, and black powder or Single actions. But you can;t be too choosey on the DA revolver front.  I MADE A HUGE SCORE at Cabela's finding a nice S&W Model 29 Mountain gun (Cabela's "Outfitter" special) with both rounded wood and Hogue grips, 4" barrel.  A beauty and it was less than other places for the regular M29 at $859.  Just as I was finishing up deciding to get it another clerk was helping a customer who wanted that exact gun and it was their last one.  This is a beauty and is well balanced. It replaces the Redhawk 4" custom I traded away years ago, and as much as I  loved that Redhawk, this M29 Mountain Gun is even better in the hand.  The Redhawks and M629s I have seen on the shelves before were all in the $900-$1050 range.

I was surprised at all the rifles available at both large sporting goods stores.  The smaller shops were cleaned out of all rifles in general but especially in .223, .308, and .30-06.  Both of these larger stores had rifles in abundance and Cabelas had a Clearance rack with some good deals.  I found a Sako A7 in .30-06 synthetic/stainless for $700, which is the same price as the Tikka T3 (not on clearance).  I had never considered Sako, though a friend really likes them and the Tikkas as being very lightweight and accurate.  When I held the Sako I knew this was the rifle. Trim, excellent handling, super smooth bolt and only 60 degree bolt lift.  I had an extra scope with me just in case so had them mount it.  All of the rifle prices look maybe only $50 higher than in October, whereas at the smaller shops they were sometimes grossly inflated.  Cabela's had a pretty full rack of new and used rifles as well.

All stores I have visited this week had at least 3-4 AR15 or AK style rifles, but at $1,500 - $3,000.  If you really want one, they are out there.

Every place was crawling with guys and gals buying ANYTHING gun related. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING.  Cabela's had three people running background checks and they were swamped.  This was mid-day during the week, when folks ought to be at work!  I took the day off just to jump on the M29 deal I saw on line (2 hr drive).

Overall, stores like Cabela's and Fisherman's are offering broader selection at near normal prices and smaller gun stores have less selection at higher prices.  In the Portland area one of the largest gun shops, Keith's normally has good prices but they are just insane on everything.  A small local chain, The Gun Broker, had near normal prices and friendly staff.

[nimzy88]

Pmags are back in stock at pretty much all the shops in town, $25-$30, brownells metal mags are a bit cheaper.

Ammo still pretty bare, long rifles too. Pistols you can find a few S&W's and sigs. Glocks are gone unless you are LEO and then maybe its 27's.

[TexDaddy]

I saw Pmags at the gun shop today for $45. 

(I did not buy any.)

[smurf hunter]

Speaking of Glocks, what's the current expected retail price for a model 20?  A small (yuppie) shop near my office has the standard and "SF" model (both same price).

[chrisdfw]

Speaking of Glocks, what's the current expected retail price for a model 20?  A small (yuppie) shop near my office has the standard and "SF" model (both same price).

Depends on whether they have night sights and whether they are gen4 (gen4s come with 3 magazines). But 529 -579 for basic ones, a little more with night sights

[smurf hunter]

Well these didn't have night sights and started at $735.00  (pretty sure gen4)

[Bradbn4]

Almost zero ammo on the shelves this morning at the local Sports store.  However; they did have a line about 50+ folks long going to the counter to buy the shipment that came in last night.  What I was told this is common, every Friday folks would line up to get their chance at magazines, ar-15 style rifles and ammo.

Oh; they did have a fair supply of shotgun ammo, I did see one and only one ar-15 rifle being displayed.  But that was going to be bought before I could even ID what brand / price it was selling at.

[PrepperJim]

OK...there may be a break, but I am holding off. 500 rounds of .223 for $379. That is 0.754 per round. Not pre-crisis levels, but the best I've seen in a long time.

http://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/bulk-.223-ammo

5000 rounds in stock.

Hold out a little longer folks. The tide has turned.

[PrepperJim]

OK...there may be a break, but I am holding off. 500 rounds of .223 for $379. That is 0.754 per round. Not pre-crisis levels, but the best I've seen in a long time.

http://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/bulk-.223-ammo

5000 rounds in stock.

Hold out a little longer folks. The tide has turned.

Less than one hour later....gone. **sigh**

[nelson96]

... An approximation of how many rounds of ammunition the DHS has now secured over the last 10 months stands at around 1.625 billion. In March 2012, ATK announced that they had agreed to provide the DHS with a maximum of 450 million bullets over four years, a story that prompted questions about why the feds were buying ammunition in such large quantities.

To put that in perspective, during the height of active battle operations in Iraq, US soldiers used 5.5 million rounds of ammunition a month. Extrapolating the figures, the DHS has purchased enough bullets over the last 10 months to wage a full scale war for almost 30 years....

Full Editorial:
http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/dhs-solicits-for-another-2-6-million-rounds-of-ammo/

No wonder inventories are in the toilet and forecasts are grim as to when things will improve.

The crazy thing that I can't seem to wrap my head around is what kind of country they think they are going to have left if they launch a full scale war against their own citizens?  I would think that it would cost less lives, cost less money, take much less effort, and just plain be smarter to lead on a majority view based on the guidance that our founding fathers left us, which to date has proven to be better for its people than any other.

.

[robertov416]

One of our local shops has a sister company that sells match grade ammo (trajetech), so we stopped in today and the ammo they had primarily on the shelves was their blemishes (e.g. .30-06, .308, .223, .45ACP, 9mm).  It was reasonably priced so got a few boxes of 9mm and then some boxes of .308.  They had enough that they weren't imposing any quantity limits today.  The only thing they didn't seem to have were .380 FMJ, although they did have some Gold Dot.

[Rayray250]

Full Editorial:
http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/dhs-solicits-for-another-2-6-million-rounds-of-ammo/

No wonder inventories are in the toilet and forecasts are grim as to when things will improve.

The crazy thing that I can't seem to wrap my head around is what kind of country they think they are going to have left if they launch a full scale war against their own citizens?  I would think that it would cost less lives, cost less money, take much less effort, and just plain be smarter to lead on a majority view based on the guidance that our founding fathers left us, which to date has proven to be better for its people than any other.

.

Agreed Nelson, I don't know what they are thinking but my gut says it they aren't buying that much for a turkey shoot.  Unless we are the turkeys....

At Gander Mountain I got 5 boxes of American eagle 223 for 8.99 a box on a 5 box limit and 500 rounds of 22 LR on a one box limit.  Will check back there again next Wednesday.

They keep everything except shotgun ammo and hunting rifle calibers behind the counter now lol.

[scaffdog]

I have even been having problems finding reloading gear.

[smurf hunter]

First thing tomorrow I will conduct a mad scientist experience:

small rifle primers in .38 special brass

The charge is a reduced "cowboy" load, and I'm using my largest revolver (Ruger GP100), so the risk is low.

If this works, it could mean further consolidation of a single primer type for all my (small) pistols and .223 reloads.
A range report will follow.

[frjoeb]

From North Florida-I just got back from Wal-Mart and picked up 2 boxes of Winchester 9mm 115 grain FMJ box of 100 for $24.95 each. 

[Luvmy45]

First thing tomorrow I will conduct a mad scientist experience:

small rifle primers in .38 special brass

The charge is a reduced "cowboy" load, and I'm using my largest revolver (Ruger GP100), so the risk is low.

If this works, it could mean further consolidation of a single primer type for all my (small) pistols and .223 reloads.
A range report will follow.

Will work fine, you may get a 5 to 10fps gain, usually not enough notice unless your running the ragged edge of max. I don't notice a difference in my loads,

[trekker111]

First thing tomorrow I will conduct a mad scientist experience:

small rifle primers in .38 special brass

The charge is a reduced "cowboy" load, and I'm using my largest revolver (Ruger GP100), so the risk is low.

If this works, it could mean further consolidation of a single primer type for all my (small) pistols and .223 reloads.
A range report will follow.

Rifle primers are a bit harder than pistol primers. The first time i fire-formed 303 british brass into brass 410 shotshells, i seated large rifle primers. None of the 410s i tried would fire the primers. Decapped and reprimed with large pistol primers, fired lust fine.

[Heavy G]

500 .223 reloads... $695.  I crap you negative (translated: I shit you not).

[Canadian Prepper]

500 .223 reloads... $695.  I crap you negative (translated: I shit you not).

Ouch! I guess they'll refer to that as a "California Legal" sale if the latest proposed bill passes in its current form.

[cmxterra]

500 .223 reloads... $695.  I crap you negative (translated: I shit you not).

Divine Feces (translated : Holy Crap!)

[thewarriorhunter]

another nice link for scouting ammo prices online is ammoseek.com

[Thox Spuddy]

This, I believe, is what is happening: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/10/DHS-Ammo-Purchases-Gun-Control-By-Another-Name

[smurf hunter]

That's a bit of stretch, as the .gov uses a narrow range of calibers compared with the overall civilian market.
However common components (again I find myself obsessing on primers) could potentially be diverted towards government orders.

I still believe 90% of the reason we can't find what we want at the sporting good store is because of civilian gun owners. I frequently check craigslist and find ads that are clearly people selling things they aren't familiar with.  At first I assumed theft, but now I think many are hoarders looking to make a quick buck.

[endurance]

This, I believe, is what is happening: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/10/DHS-Ammo-Purchases-Gun-Control-By-Another-Name

I have a couple problems with this theory, the first being is that most federal agencies use 40 S&W, which by most accounts is still available and very few are still using 9mm (other than the military), which has a serious shortage of supply.  Then there's the shortages in 7.62x39, which isn't used at all by the US government, even the military, and mostly comes in from the Russians, not US manufacturers (thus, no competition for primers or other components manufactured in the US).

I still think this is a supply and demand issue.  Too many new gun buyers trying to put up a cache of a thousand rounds (if there were a half million ARs and AKs sold in the last 90 days and each buyer wanted 1,000 rounds, that's a half billion rounds of new demand all by itself.  If there were already 4-5 million ARs and AKs in the US and each person wanted up put up another 1,000 rounds, that's another five billion rounds of demand, which makes the DHS purchases of the last two years pale in comparison.  Of course it should be seen as reassuring that you and your neighbors have purchased more ammunition in the last 90 days than the federal government has in the last two years.  It gives me some hope.

[nelson96]

it should be seen as reassuring that you and your neighbors have purchased more ammunition in the last 90 days than the federal government has in the last two years.  It gives me some hope.

It can't hurt.

[oley454]

My local Dunham's Sports had 7.62x54r for $90 a spam can.  I got there five minutes after they opened and a dbag had bought them all.  I call him a dbag because twenty minutes later its listed on armslist for $135 a can.  All i wanted was one can. 
On the other hand Wally World had Federal 22lr in stock so I picked up two boxes.  The clerk there said that the same group of people were showing up on resupply day and buying him out until he put a three box limit.  Then they stopped showing up.  It's just plain frustrating.

[FreeLancer]

MidwayUSA emailed me Sat that they had just received Ruger Gunsite 10rd mags, but the were gone before I got home and I barely was able to get 2 5rd mags (tried to get more, but they limit to 2).

Surprisingly they notified me today that they had more 10s, so I went through the pain of navigating their site on my iPhone and was successful. Price with shipping was $35 for both sizes.