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Author Topic: Society SEEMS to've tanked, do you fight for the USA or join the New Republic?  (Read 2683 times)

Offline Oil Lady

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Hypothetically speaking, this is a very much way-out-there sort of scenario for nothing more than discussion's sake. But here's my way-out question:

Q. If we have a future collapse which is just sooooooooooooooooooooo baaaaad!!!

How bad is it??

It's just sooooooooooooooooooooooo baaaaaaad that you aren't even sure if there's a government in Washington anymore ....






What would you do??






Would you try to maintain all your presumed legal obligations to the Old USA?

Or

Would you try to form your own Law & Order?

Or

If a considerably large battallion of dudes in camo and carrying serious weapons were to show up, waving some bizarre flag you've never seen before (or even waving a flag you HAVE seen before, such as the flag of a foreign nation, or even the UN flag), and claiming -- "There is no more US government. WE are the new government now."

   -- would you join with this "new government" and later on get charged
       with treason to the USA for collaborating with the enemy?
   -- would you fight them to the death and risk your whole family?

What would you do?? 




There's a fabulous book called When There Is No Doctor.

How about "When There Is No Government"??



.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 02:52:21 PM by Oil Lady »
"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline cheryl1

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If a considerably large battallion of dudes in camo and carrying serious weapons were to show up, waving some bizarre flag you've never seen before (or even waving a flag you HAVE seen before, such as the flag of a foreign nation, or even the UN flag), and claiming -- "There is no more US government. WE are the new government now."
What would you do?? 

Whatever they say, no matter what flag they are waving. At least at first, because there is no way I can stand alone against them.

I wouldn't be surprised to see people rallying around the American flag, and then fighting with another group rallying around the American flag, just to see who's more American. I, of course, would be supporting the Americans.

Waving a foreign flag-fight or infiltrate and sabotage, whichever makes more sense in the situation.

Weird homemade flag? I really don't see this happening, at least not in my area. Unless it was a group uniting under the Christian flag and making Holy War on the populace. Then I'd fight, because I wouldn't do well in a theocracy. Way too opiniated and rebellious.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.

Offline Louisiana Suvivor

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i dunno. here i could see the community banding together under the US flag but i could also see the Confederate flag going up to. it's not very cliche' to say that the south just might wanna try it again. i would just live my life and have to adapt to whoever is in charge. regime's rise and fall. i plan on living with whoever is calling the shots
Contributing to TSP Forum since October 19, 2008.

Offline nelson96

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I would FIGHT (to the death) for the Old America, the once great and could be great again America, but not before I got my family in a place I felt was safe.
“There are few things more pathetic than those who have lost their curiosity and sense of adventure, and who no longer care to learn.”
 ~ Gordon B. Hinckley

One hundred thousand generations of people lived and ate as hunter-gatherers, and only two generations have grown up on highly processed fast foods. . .  It's not too late

Offline Louisiana Suvivor

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I would FIGHT (to the death) for the Old America, the once great and could be great again America, but not before I got my family in a place I felt was safe.

i totally respect that. that just ain't me. my responsibility is to keep my family safe and me dead doesn't do that.
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Offline nelson96

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i totally respect that. that just ain't me. my responsibility is to keep my family safe and me dead doesn't do that.

I guess it depends on the magnitude of the collapse of course.  I don't intend to live in a country governed by dictators/communists.  I've seen too many family members die a long slow and painful death from cancer.  This would be similar.
“There are few things more pathetic than those who have lost their curiosity and sense of adventure, and who no longer care to learn.”
 ~ Gordon B. Hinckley

One hundred thousand generations of people lived and ate as hunter-gatherers, and only two generations have grown up on highly processed fast foods. . .  It's not too late

Offline cheryl1

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I don't intend to live in a country governed by dictators/communists. 

Agree. I would much rather go down fighting than live an empty, scared life as a serf.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.

Offline cptd

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SThere will not be some extended period of anarchy. If this were to happen, it would be basically a first in the history of the industrialized world. No matter what you think about those people in the cities who don't have survival skills, the plain fact of the matter is that someone is going to step up and organize them. This always, always, always happens. They will be easy to train, easy to motivate, and easy to frighten into doing the bidding of whoever is calling the shots.

We all like to be self sufficient, which is good. It will be important. But the reality is that whatever the new government looks like, it will have the resources it needs to train the so-called "sheeple" and any prepping or tactical advantage that you have willbe short lived if the new order decides to take your stuff.

Solddiers are very easy to make. In fact, it was my experience in the Amy that the guys who most resemble the "sheeple" that we always ridicule often make better soldiers than the boyscouts. THey don't question their orders and do what they are told no matter what, which will be doubly true if their alternative is starvation.

A lot of people claim an advantage in having grown up with guns and so forth. Again, that advantage will probably be short lived in a total collapse scenario. It was my experience commanding OSUT that the guys who entered the Army having never touched a gun usually qualified with their weapons with higher scores than the guys who grew up hunting and shooting beer cans. I'm not sure why this is true but I suspect it has to do with the lack of bad shooting habits and a willingness to be taught how to shoot the right way, again, unquestioningly.  That may seem a bit counterintuitive but I saw it all the time.

Likewise, deployed in the field in Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan, I didn't see a significant difference in the behavior of soldiers with varying backgrounds. The plain fact of the matter is that it is easy to make an army.  Especially in an envirobnment with a large population of hungry, scared people. A few months of combat training and anyone can be knocked into reasonably good physical shape, disciplined, taught all of the combat skills that they need to wage war, and sent out to make everyone else's life very bad.

Then you have a choice. They come for your guns, what do you do? They will be more than happy to pry them from your cold, dead hands and give them over to the government for "the greater good".

I woud argue that in this hypothetical, the only real chance of survival with any kind of quality of life lies in escaping the country and resettling elsewhere while this place goes nuts on itself. At that point, I would have no compunction about doing this, as the nation I knew and loved would be dead.


Offline cheryl1

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The plain fact of the matter is that it is easy to make an army. 

It is not so easy to feed an army. Or equip an army. Or keep an army from turning on itself. I wouldn't cut and run because this is my country, and who knows? Maybe my efforts, along with many others, may be the straw that broke the army's back. Whether I fought a threat to my community head-on, or joined a fifth column, would depend on the situation.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.

Offline joeinwv

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Army's are easy - round up some local teenagers, give them AK's and free reign to burn and pillage. Round up any dissenters and chop some arms off with the old rusty machete.

Works in Africa. Not how we'll do it here.

Step one - remove free speech and commerce from internet.
Step two - disarm public.
Step three - impoverish population.
Step four - implement gov programs, a la brown shirts.
Step five - reorganize gov to global based / Canamerixo.

Offline The Professor

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If a considerably large battallion of dudes in camo and carrying serious weapons were to show up, waving some bizarre flag you've never seen before (or even waving a flag you HAVE seen before, such as the flag of a foreign nation, or even the UN flag), and claiming -- "There is no more US government. WE are the new government now."

   -- would you join with this "new government" and later on get charged
       with treason to the USA for collaborating with the enemy?
   -- would you fight them to the death and risk your whole family?

What would you do?? 


Show allegiance to the flag whatever flag they offer.
Never hint at what you really feel.
Teach the children quietly for some day sons and daughters.
Will rise up and fight where we stood still.

The Professor

(after all, aren't we standing still as it collapses around us?)
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Offline Mister Dark

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Show allegiance to the flag whatever flag they offer.
Never hint at what you really feel.
Teach the children quietly for some day sons and daughters.
Will rise up and fight where we stood still.

The Professor

(after all, aren't we standing still as it collapses around us?)


Absolutely Love that song.  Always felt it was from a movie, or a concept album at least. But no. Just a great song.

http://youtu.be/ep7W89I_V_g

As to the question of the OP, I honestly don't believe that it will ever get that bad here in the states.  IF (VERY big if) the federal government gets "iffy", state governments will hold things together for awhile. If the state gov breaks down, local government will still be around. Heck, in the absolute worst case, the county Sherriff will always be there, a reminder that the Constitution is still in place.

I can see situations such as a massive EMP attack, or a CME, or large regional disaster where it APPEARS government may leave us on our own (look at Katrina, or the Tsunami in the Indian Ocean a few years ago) but somewhere, someone is making contingency plans, to ensure that my stupid 2013 1099 tax form will make it to my door. >:(

IF it gets really really bad, I'll help with the neighborhood watch, and get on the radio with the Sherriffs office, to see what they want us to do. 

Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline chrisdfw

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I fight for Texas and the US Constitution, not the US Government.

Offline TexDaddy

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I fight for Texas and the US Constitution, not the US Government.
Actually, maybe more relevant for a different thread, but I saw 4 of these this morning on the way to work and it was 6 AM Sunday morning!

http://now.msn.com/texas-secession-bumper-stickers-abound-after-2012-petitions
"I went down Virginia, seekin' shelter from the storm.
Caught up in the fable, I watched the tower grow.
Five year plans and new deals, wrapped in golden chains.
And I wonder, still I wonder who'll stop the rain."

...A quote from the book 'Mataroda' comes to mind:
'To do more than your best is impossible, to do less is unthinkable'
WWCD = What would Cedar do?

Offline The Professor

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Actually, maybe more relevant for a different thread, but I saw 4 of these this morning on the way to work and it was 6 AM Sunday morning!

http://now.msn.com/texas-secession-bumper-stickers-abound-after-2012-petitions

I need to buy some land in Texas.

The Professor
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Offline FreeLancer

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There will not be some extended period of anarchy. If this were to happen, it would be basically a first in the history of the industrialized world. No matter what you think about those people in the cities who don't have survival skills, the plain fact of the matter is that someone is going to step up and organize them. This always, always, always happens. They will be easy to train, easy to motivate, and easy to frighten into doing the bidding of whoever is calling the shots.

We all like to be self sufficient, which is good. It will be important. But the reality is that whatever the new government looks like, it will have the resources it needs to train the so-called "sheeple" and any prepping or tactical advantage that you have willbe short lived if the new order decides to take your stuff.

I woud argue that in this hypothetical, the only real chance of survival with any kind of quality of life lies in escaping the country and resettling elsewhere while this place goes nuts on itself. At that point, I would have no compunction about doing this, as the nation I knew and loved would be dead.

+1

I don't know how this popular survivalist fantasy got started, that the preppers, rednecks, and other god-fearing folk were going to rise from the chaos and rebuild the country to its mythical glory.  It's always seemed so far-fetched to me.  Where's the historical precedent for this? 
In times of change learners inherit the earth and the learned find themselves equipped for a world that no longer exists.   Eric Hoffer

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.  Winston Churchill

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.  Voltaire

Offline cptd

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There is no historical precedent.

Most of the nobility in the Ukraine and other parts of the former Soviet Empire could have been considered "preppers" in that the were the people who owned the land; owned guns; knew how to live sustainably; and so forth. When the Bolsheviks took over they systematically hunted these people down and either killed them outright or sent them to the gulags. Very few remnants of Ukrainian nobility survive to this day. Pretty much the only survivors were the ones who got out of the country ahead of the Bolsheviks. The Bolshies, of course, wanted to collectivize agriculture, and they saw the nobility as greedy or at least used it as their line to motivate the masses. They told people that if those greedy bastards would just get out of the way, there would be plenty of food for everyone.

Without getting into the details of the power grab there are some interesting parallels. In Russia at the time there was consiberable suffering from disease and starvation in the cities and the landowners were successfully painted as the primary cause for this suffering.

It was of course a lie, as there were numerous blights of crops that drove up the prices of food prior to the revolution. They were labeled as greedy and selfish and blah blah blah.

Sound familiar yet?

A lot of the nobility didn't really take the threat seriously because they were used to fighting off small bands of highwaymen and the like. They figured they knew the land better, had the loyalty of the people around them, and that they themselves had food and otherbasic needs - they would weather the storm.

So you had the Bolshevik Revolution, and again, the only nobility who survived did so because they got out of dodge before the Bolshies showed up. When a tank rolls down your street that option is pretty much gone.

If that, or something like it, happens here, and you're still in the country when it does, it's probably too late. At that point your best hope of survival lies in doing whatever they tell you to do, no matter how distasteful it is, and trying to find a way to slip out of the country with your family. Expecting, at that point, to fight the good fight and for things to go back to the good ol' days of Washington and Franklin and so on is naive.

In any case, when the Soviet Union finally did implode, places like the Ukraine restructured. Life is better there now than it was under the Soviets, that's for sure, but it still sucks and it in no way resembles the state that existed before the revolution.

Fighting the good fight is not for me.

Offline Oil Lady

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There is no historical precedent.

Most of the nobility in the Ukraine and other parts of the former Soviet Empire could have been considered "preppers" in that the were the people who owned the land; owned guns; knew how to live sustainably; and so forth. When the Bolsheviks took over they systematically hunted these people down and either killed them outright or sent them to the gulags. Very few remnants of Ukrainian nobility survive to this day. Pretty much the only survivors were the ones who got out of the country ahead of the Bolsheviks.

I hang out at various Peak Oil web sites. And it has been reported over the last few years that there are a lot of very very wealthy Americans who are hedging their bets via buying estates in such far flung places as Latin America and Thailand. These are the bug-out locations of the VERY VERY wealthy!

These rich folks are looking for several key factors:

1) Lots of local water. (They have no use for a desert climate. In a true SHTF situation, water will be THE survival comodity.) 

2) A government which doesn't mind private wealth.

3) Acreage.

4) A good exchange rate for the US dollar. (They want to build their BOL's with as much bang for their buck as possible here on this side of the dollar's eventual demise.) 
"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline flippydidit

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My biggest worry with that line of "logic" is that those BOL countries are all in one form or another, socialist nations.  They'll have no problem "nationalizing" your property or wealth.  They'd probably be more likely to do it considering you're not a native.  Add in that when/if the U.S. collapses it will likely have far reaching ramifications with the global economy.  So when the "Costa Rican" economy tanks because it was tied into U.S. markets internationally, it isn't a far stretch to think that the "locals" may have just a little bit of resentment to that "wealthy American" holed up on the mountain.

The mindset that "anywhere will be better than the U.S." during a collapse is illogical at best.  Assuming that you fluently speak the language of another country, and that you're independently wealthy (for now), has almost no bearing on you after a collapse.  Any major collapse in the U.S. will have dire effects on the rest of the world.  Being outside of YOUR country at that time is not advisable.  The U.S. will have enough to worry about, without worrying about some "State Department issue that involved some murder of an American and his family in Panama."

Let's say for a moment that you high-tailed it to Canada.  Say that you did it legally with a visa.  SHTF in the U.S and a year goes by with things deteriorating daily.  You're over the time limit on the visa, but it's still to "hot" to go back.  My opinion is that in a stressed Canadian economy, they won't hesitate to deport or imprison "refugees".  Especially if it gets as bad as the OP mentioned.

That brings me back to the topic.  What would I do?  I honestly don't know without many more specifics.  I'm not going to do something stupid like resist whoever happens to be in power (directly).  I'll comply with what I'm told until I see an opportunity to evade.  But our goal is to never become refugees.  Ever.

It's likely that I'll never be presented with that scenario.  I'm one of those "naive" survivalists that thinks it's perfectly plausible to stay out of the way and live a self-sufficient and secure life.  I've never been an Alpha male.  I'm more of the Bravo male that lets all the Alpha's fight it out.  When all the Alpha's are dead but one, and he's battered and worn, then I'll come in and finish him off.  I try to use my noodle that way.
Nate
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"One of these centuries, the brutes, private or public, who believe that they can rule their betters by force, will learn the lesson of what happens when brute force encounters mind and force."
— Ragnar Danneskjöld, from Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)


Offline cheryl1

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Fighting the good fight is not for me.
But didn't you take an oath to defend the Constitution when you joined the military? If no one honors their word, our country will be lost and eventually you will run out of places to hide.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.

Offline Oil Lady

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But didn't you take an oath to defend the Constitution when you joined the military? If no one honors their word, our country will be lost and eventually you will run out of places to hide.

I think he would only take that stance if he concluded the old USA was over and done with. (Can't speak for him, just guessing really.)

One of my concerns here in this scenario is that ... if communication is impossible (thank God for HAM radio enthusiasts!) and you simply don't know for certain whether or not Washington is still on its feet, it might be very easy for a small band of yahoo nobodies to deceive you into thinking there is no more Washington.

So you need to make a decision: do I fight these guys because I think they are yahoos? Or do I join with them because I believe them when they say they are absolutely it and I need to get with reality?

If they are just yahoos and wannabes, but you go ahead and join with them, and then it turns out Washington is still perfectly intact and it was only your region of the USA which was plunged into a temporary (albeit prolonged) informational dark age ....well... if the power comes back on and communication gets restored and order gets restored, and then the yahoos wind up getting charged with sedition then .... well...  then you also might get charged wth sedition right along with them. 

Not an enviable position to be in. 

What choice would you make in spite of the fact that you really can't confirm whether or not Washington is still there?

Once again, I realize this is a way-out-there scenario, but I think it's worth the intellectual exercise and the inner exploration.



"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline Oil Lady

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Somethng else I wanna add ...

I never read the post-apocalyptic novel The Postman by David Brin. (Saw the Kevin Costner film, just never read the book.)  And I was told by someone who did read it that the real key message of the book is that communication lines between towns and cities is the secret to preventing tyrants from taking over. 

(I also want to add that the book has won multiple sci-fi and literary awards, and is frequently found on a lot of lists of "Top 100 Greatest Sci-Fi Books Ever." So in spite of what anyone here might think of Kevin Costner in general or that film in particular, the BOOK is supposed to be a monumentally profound masterpiece of the 20th century.) 

So my scenario here in the OP includes the extra detail whereby communciation between your town and the outside world is simply not happening.
"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline livinitup0

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If the S has REALLY HTF, then I dont really care what flag people are waiving...I wont be taking a side...
 Im going to be with my family living sustainably without the need for a government....I mean if you've got all your survival needs met and you're thriving, why the heck would I want to risk aligning myself with any government entity? they can fight it out, i'll stay out of it and eat bacon.

Offline Virginian

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But didn't you take an oath to defend the Constitution when you joined the military? If no one honors their word, our country will be lost and eventually you will run out of places to hide.

+1 cheryl1
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Offline cptd

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But didn't you take an oath to defend the Constitution when you joined the military? If no one honors their word, our country will be lost and eventually you will run out of places to hide.
sure, but suppose the constitution is gone, and not coming back?

I also have to reckon with the reality that I only have one arm, for riddance three fingers on my good hand, and can barely walk due train damage. What am I supposed to do? Drive them off with harsh language?

The way I see it I don't owe the constitution or the government any further service as a soldier and even if I did I am in no condition to fight.



Offline cptd

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Sorry I meant brain damage.


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I'm reading my third or fourth book on Afghanistan now written by either embedded reporters or former soldiers and I find a common theme that creates consternation on the part of the US Army, but is why the people of Afghanistan still exist.  They don't take sides.  They don't freely give out information.  They don't declare allegiances or if they do, they may declare allegiances to both sides until they can figure out the winner. 

That's a strategy for survival that has worked since the Romans in that region.  In the scenario given here, I'd want to be an observer.  How does this new government treat the people?  How do they deal with dissension in their own ranks?  How do they deal with conflicting opinions?  How do they treat those in their ranks that step over the line?  How do they treat the opposition?

Only after understanding a few of those things will I even begin to take sides.  Maybe this new government is behaving closer to the US Constitution than the old government and deserves my backing.  Maybe they're a bunch of wild tyrants that kill women and eat babies.  Without additional information, I'm not planning on taking sides.
"There are things that you don't question when your home always smells like baking bread."  From The Hunger Games

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Offline cheryl1

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I also have to reckon with the reality that I only have one arm, for riddance three fingers on my good hand, and can barely walk due train damage. What am I supposed to do? Drive them off with harsh language?

Seems like you had posted elsewhere on the forum about being able to plan operations in your sleep. I can run, fight, and follow orders if I have to, but I don't have the skills you do. You still have value.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.

Offline cptd

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Seems like you had posted elsewhere on the forum about being able to plan operations in your sleep. I can run, fight, and follow orders if I have to, but I don't have the skills you do. You still have value.

My value these days is taking care of and being with my family, and I don't need a functioning USA for that to be the case.

Offline cheryl1

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My value these days is taking care of and being with my family, and I don't need a functioning USA for that to be the case.
I guess that is where we differ. I don't feel I would be taking care of my family if I didn't help preserve my community. I know my actions would never make a difference nationwide, but what I do impacts my family and neighbors. And I personally couldn't walk away and leave them all to fend for themselves. My roots are too deep for that.
I've seen the village and I don't want it raising my children.