Opinions of Socom 16 M1A??

[CarlD]

Thinking of buying a used Socom 16 M1A.  Any opinions on it?

[Joe_Nobody]

I had a SOCOM II. I didn't like it, and sold it shortly after trying 500, or so, rounds. Here's why:

It was very picky on mags. I bought 10 mags, all from Springfield, and only 3 worked reliabily.
Optic mounting is difficult. I purchased two different adapters and didn't like either. One made the brass to bounce back at the breach causing FTF issues, the other didn't allow for a good weld.

The weapon wasn't that reliable. I know, I know...all the M1 guys out there believe that design is rock solid, but mine failed often. If you get the top of that breech muddy at all, she won't feed well. My problems were mainly ATV dust. Someone told me about this video afterwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0-3OQsnR-w

Finally, the weapon simply wasn't that accurate. I experienced 2.5 - 3.5 MOA, and for a .308, that isn't acceptable in MHO.

Joe

[The Professor]

Unless you want a 30-caliber gun for close-in work less than 100 yards, I'd go elsewhere.  I had one of the earlier Socom II's.  Unlike Joe, I had no problems with magazines.  I did have a few slight (failure to lock) malfunctions due to heavy dirt, but this was quickly fixed by Springfield upon my complaining.  I didn't like all the railing stuff they slapped on it.  It made the rifle very heavy for the size and nose-heavy on any account.  While I realize it was for the addition of lights, lasers and all that happy crap, it made the rifle very difficult to move between multiple targets.  Recoil, however, was nice and light, but remember, you're shooting an 11-lb rifle, so . . . more mass means less felt recoil.

My accuracy was similar, 2.5-3.0 MOA, but then. . .it wasn't mean to be shot much farther than 100m.  It's meant to be a close-in weapon, not something for longer ranges.  Not to mention the fact that most people don't shoot that well, to begin with (to hear some, they're Olympic-level Marksmen, apparently).

All in all, I'm much happier with my early 90's Scout/Squad.   No special gas system, rock solid performance and it shoots about 1.5 MOA  Thanks to some work done in the late 90's by Fulton Armory.


The Professor

[American freak]

I have only heard bad things about them. I looked at buying on because I wanted a rifle in. 308. I ended up going with the Ruger Gunsite Scout and absolutely love it.

[spooky-1]

Okay, I'm going to defend the M1A, I have a SII and love it, the only failures to feed was when I bought cheap, Japanese made 30 round mags,they would tilt out of the mag catch and stop feeding. after that I bought only CMI or factory mags and they worked flawlessly. I run steel and brass case ammo and it eats it up. i agree that the after market optic mounts are shit, i solved this prob em by buying an extended rail SocomII which gives me very good eye relief. I also have on it a Horus vision scope that gives me good accuracy out to 500 yds, probably in the 6-8 MOA range, not a tack driver out to hat specific range but I have taken large game out to 250 yds with it. One more thing I added a JAE enterprises stock. so you can get good accuracy out of it, but you have to add on good accessories IMO.

[flippydidit]

My professional opinion is whatever works best for you and is in your price range.  My personal opinion is that you can do much better for the price.  As a prepper there is sometimes more to firearm selection than just what the mainstream gun community chatters about.  For instance, my 12 year old can build an AR out of parts.  Ever replace and headspace a barrel on an M1A?  If you did it's because you have a lathe and know what you're doing.  Just something to think about.

[Joe_Nobody]

Spooky makes a valid point, and one worthy of bringing up on any forum.

Any machine can have variations by lot, specific unit or batch. Just because I had FTF issues with a specific rifle doesn't mean they are junk or anything. I could take my fav POF models, of which I have shot so much one of them is on its third barrel, and there will be people who will have had problems with that product.

I, for example, love my ACR and hated my SCAR. After a couple of thousand rounds, I sold the SCAR and bought a second ACR. I am def in the minority when comparing those two guns. 

Which brings us to flippy's comment - whatever works best for you is the most important post in this thread in MHO.

[The Professor]

Yeah, I swapped out the fiberglass stock, too, on my Scout/Squad.  First, I switched to a Reese Inc. BM59-style folding stock.   A few years ago, I swapped that out for the Vltor stock.  When I swapped to the Vltor, I definitely noticed an increase in accuracy/consistency.

But, it does fall back to familiarity with one's weapon system.  Too many people go out and sight in their rifle and never use it under realistic/semi-realistic conditions.  In our case, my wife and I use our weapons at least monthly in various sorts of competition.  No, it's not like getting shot at, but it allows you to run the whole system (rifle, mags, ammo, carry options, sight system, etc.) in a way that would be difficult to replicate elsewhere. 

You learn the weaknesses of your equipment, and self,  rather quickly.

If you feel comfortable with it, then great. . .rely on it.  Otherwise. . .you should figure out what the problem is if you ever plan on using it under duress.

Believe me. . . there is no feeling like having a weapon you can't trust when the chips are down.

The Professor

[Bonnieblue2A]

Every person I have known who bought a Socom has since sold it. If it were great and an answer to a problem that needed to be asked, more people would be hanging on to them, IMO. YMMV.

[joeinwv]

... a Horus vision scope that gives me good accuracy out to 500 yds, probably in the 6-8 MOA range...

Do you mean a 6-8 inch group at 500 yards or 6-8 MOA - which would be a 30-40 inch group?

A 6-8 MOA gun would barely keep a group inside a paper plate at 100 yards and would be below acceptable accuracy for pretty much any use in my book.

[spooky-1]

I meant at 500 yds, my longest measurement from one hole to another was 7 inches or so. this was of course from a bench

[flippydidit]

A quick clarification and two easy formulas.  The link is here:

http://www.westernshooter.com/2009/10/using-and-understanding-minute-of-angle.html

How many inches equal 4 MOA at 700 yards?
(4 MOA x 7.00 yards) = 28 in

How many MOA equal 21 inches at 700 yards?
(21 inches / 7.00 yards) = 3 MOA

So if he was shooting within a 7 inch circle at 500 yards, that works out to 1.4 MOA.  Hope this helps!

[inbox485]

The SAI M1As are interesting. On just the M1A side, SAI is the low end if you ask anybody on the M14 forum. I got a SAI scout, and out of the box it needed some shimming. I tested the groups and was getting about 3" at 25 meters. The gas lock was about so loose it could turn to just a hair short of 12 oclock, and the barrel band didn't even touch the stock ferrule. I haven't been out to re group it, but I'm optimistic.

For any of the M1A/M14 variants, the standard for accuracy is <4 MOA for a rack rifle on surplus ammo with ~2 MOA being common, and <2 MOA for match rifles with match ammo with ~1 MOA being common. It is NOT a sub MOA design, and it takes some real skill and upkeep to get that out of one.

The #1 fix to the stock accuracy issue I see being recommended darn near everywhere is a Sage EBR stock. It is what the military is doing for issuing M14's in Afghanistan. Night and day difference in accuracy and serviceability from everything I've heard. If you are going that route (and had I known this is what I would have done), is go here: http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Barreled-Actions.aspx or here: http://www.lrbarms.com/home.html, and get a complete barreled action, and get a Sage EBR for the stock. Issue at that point is the amount of cash you are spending versus a FAL. But if you live in a nanny state and refuse to dork around with bullet buttons, this would be an alternative.

For the socom specifically, I've seen a number of people that like them for what they are. Assembled correctly (including fixing any of the notorious SAI issues), they should be fine out to 500 yards with 0-100 being the intended purpose. Everything I've seen would suggest that adding that extra 2" on the barrel and going for the scout is worth every bit of the length tradeoff. They loose a tad on the velocity compared to the 22" barrel, and a tad on accuracy, but I've seen a number of reviews saying that they are good out to 800 yards if the shooter is up to it, and hard to beat as a hog rifle.

[flippydidit]

If you are going that route (and had I known this is what I would have done), is go here: http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14-Barreled-Actions.aspx or here: http://www.lrbarms.com/home.html, and get a complete barreled action, and get a Sage EBR for the stock.

If you go with the EBR stock and do your own install or disassemble it at any time, keep the screws separate and marked for which holes they go to.  The screws are steel and the rail system is aluminum.  The holes/screws are NOT the same size.  It even says in the instructions.  I've had many an EBR stock come in that someone did not follow the directions.  Steel threads vs. aluminum threads = steel threads win.  You can easily pull the threads out of the hole simply by trying to put the larger steel screw in it.

EBR stocks are not cheap (around $800).