Author Topic: oil/diesel centrifuge  (Read 2060 times)

Offline ag2

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oil/diesel centrifuge
« on: November 27, 2012, 10:44:34 AM »
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 10:48:39 AM »
I will post here the pics since this is sort of it's own topic.

everything mounted to a board for easy moving and to keep things from moving around (like the speed controller and power plugs)


switches for the heater and centrifuge


oil pre heater as heat makes the process work better


This process also removes any water that may be present in the waste oil.
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Offline ag2

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 12:16:32 PM »
I also found this guy's F250 conversion to be well documented and interesting.
http://www.modernsurvivalists.com/skills/alternative-energy/converting-a-73l-diesel-engine-to-vegetable-oil/

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Offline flippydidit

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 12:25:42 PM »
Ok, so after 30 seconds of research it will work for my truck and likely my tractor as well.  So I'm sold.  Where did you buy yours, and how much did it cost?  I didn't see that in the other post, and the link that ag2 posted has some for $4,000 and up.  Did you have to piece it all together with the switches and heater or are there kits that are all set up?

I'm still not going to process fuel on the dinner table though.  ;)  Wife would kill me.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 12:40:24 PM »
Here:
http://www.wvodesigns.com/products/wvo-centrifuges/raw-power-centrifuges/raw-power-centrifuge.html

You have to get the electrical switches and power plugs as well as more high temp tubing.

For the record that is on a rug and not the kitchen table. The wife would kill me if I had that on the table.


Edit to add:
There is a model below the one I got that does not have the faster spinning motor. I also have the booster cone and the heater.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 12:55:31 PM by cmxterra »
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Offline ag2

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 01:48:30 PM »
This particulare one shown in this video is $197.  This does NOT include the preheater or pump.  But those are rather inexpensive.

http://www.centrifugefordummies.com/node/4

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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 03:21:34 PM »
This particulare one shown in this video is $197.  This does NOT include the preheater or pump.  But those are rather inexpensive.

http://www.centrifugefordummies.com/node/4

The one in the video is small and I am not sure at what rate it would clean the oil to fuel grade and how many passes it would need. The one I have will do 25 gallons an hour to fuel grade in a single pass.
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Offline ag2

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2012, 05:03:40 PM »
The one in the video does 55 gph.  http://pabiodieselsupply.com/shop/waste-oil-centrifuge-wvo-centrifuge/?osCsid=d362be2728f7536f1356bd17291220ab  However, I don't see a need to it that quickly.....but that brings me to my next question for you.

Is your setup an on-board system to filter and deliver while driving?  Or do you filter at home?  I don't see why it could not be built on board, but I haven't tackled this project.........queue music......yet.  But an on-board system lends itself to greater self-sufficiency.

If there's room under the hood, I'm thinking of a mechanical pump.  The centrifuge (the one I'm looking at with the label PA Biodiesel Supply) is mechanical and requires 80psi or greater, so I need to ensure those pressures can be acheived with a mechanical pump.  And if there's no room, then an electric DC motor can be mounted most anywhere.

I don't know, just thinking outloud with the clickety clack of my keyboard and the radio.  I've spent time under the hood swapping engines and stuff, but I have no experience with diesel. 

Very cool stuff cmxterra!
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2012, 05:15:51 PM »
The one in the video does 55 gph.  http://pabiodieselsupply.com/shop/waste-oil-centrifuge-wvo-centrifuge/?osCsid=d362be2728f7536f1356bd17291220ab  However, I don't see a need to it that quickly.....but that brings me to my next question for you.

Is your setup an on-board system to filter and deliver while driving?  Or do you filter at home?  I don't see why it could not be built on board, but I haven't tackled this project.........queue music......yet.  But an on-board system lends itself to greater self-sufficiency.

If there's room under the hood, I'm thinking of a mechanical pump.  The centrifuge (the one I'm looking at with the label PA Biodiesel Supply) is mechanical and requires 80psi or greater, so I need to ensure those pressures can be acheived with a mechanical pump.  And if there's no room, then an electric DC motor can be mounted most anywhere.

I don't know, just thinking outloud with the clickety clack of my keyboard and the radio.  I've spent time under the hood swapping engines and stuff, but I have no experience with diesel. 

Very cool stuff cmxterra!

There is a problem with what you are suggesting for it being on board.

This assumes that I am going to have something like 55 gallons of waste oil that I am going to process into 55 gallons of fuel oil. So that would require two 55 gallon drums. And since I am gravity feeding the centrifuge the waste drum has to be located above the centrifuge and the centrifuge has to be above the fuel oil drum. You can see how this could be problematic on a moving platform (considering that a 55 gallon drum of oil weighs in the area of 440 pounds)

Think of this more like my own personal gas station where I process my own fuel and then dispense it as needed.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2012, 05:22:39 PM »
Here is a scale image to show how big the centrifuge bowl is. As you can see it is quite larger than the one listed above. Seeing as it is larger and spins at 6k rpm it will produce more force on the oil thus removing smaller particles.



Edit: See quarter for scale of the bowl
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Offline ag2

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2012, 05:51:01 PM »
Hmmm, lemme try to explain what I have in my peabrain and let you shoot holes in it.

WVO tank connected to the in-line pump which is connected to centrifuge filter which is connected to the fuel switch to engine.  All a high-pressure system in series (high pressure from the pump forward).

The PA Biodiesel centrifuge is smaller and designed to be mounted on board and has been used for decades.  80psi spins it at 7500 rpms to clean all contaminants and requires no additional passes.  (however, two filters could be placed in line if a second pass is desired)  This eliminates the need for two tanks. (I've left out a few details for brevity)

Think of it like this.  If you are a hiker and you need to filter water, would you like an in-line filter in the straw for the bladder of your camelbak or do you want to carry two vessels (extra weight) and a separate filter?

Hat tip from me to you for the work you have done (+1).  Shoot holes in my idea here.
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Offline bdhutier

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2012, 08:34:17 PM »
There is no WVO conversion necessary on F series (Navistar 7.3L/International 444 engines) trucks built before 2002.  Can't speak for GM, abut I also suspect the same holds true for the Cummins 6BT (5.9L) and 4BT engines. 

Depending on where you live, you may not even need a heater.  Just drop a couple gallons of diesel into the tank of WVO.  A petroleum fuel as an additive, such as outboard 2-stroke would be recommended regardless, since the WVO will not have the lubrication properties of a petroleum fuel for the injectors and injection pump.

*Break*

Since this seems like a more appropriate thread, please indulge me a copy/paste of my post in CMX's BOV thread:

Quote
My only concern (possibly unfounded) of using engine oil for daily-use fuel is, the additives.  Apecifically, the ones added to make the oil resistant to burning.  I've heard (my wife is young, so it can't be  her tale), it causes a substantial amount of gunky build-up over time.  Are you concerned about this issue, CMX?

I wouldn't hesitate a second to burn it in my '91 IDI if I were short of fuel pennies, or all the way up to SHTF.  Hell, that's why I bought the truck I did!!  I use outboard 2-stroke to supplement my fuel, and add a little lubricity to the acetone-smelling crap they're peddling as diesel nowadays...
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2012, 09:01:30 PM »
My only concern (possibly unfounded) of using engine oil for daily-use fuel is, the additives.  Apecifically, the ones added to make the oil resistant to burning.  I've heard (my wife is young, so it can't be  her tale), it causes a substantial amount of gunky build-up over time.  Are you concerned about this issue, CMX?

I wouldn't hesitate a second to burn it in my '91 IDI if I were short of fuel pennies, or all the way up to SHTF.  Hell, that's why I bought the truck I did!!  I use outboard 2-stroke to supplement my fuel, and add a little lubricity to the acetone-smelling crap they're peddling as diesel nowadays...

Seeing as I am in the great white north running strait used motor oil is a no go due to temp. I would have to cut it with diesel or gasoline to keep it from getting too thick. As for the concerns of gunky build up. There are people in the MV community that have been running motor oil for years with no ill effects.  Personally I don't see me running 100% UMO unless it is a total SHTF situation and I can not cut it with diesel.
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Offline bdhutier

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2012, 09:40:07 PM »
Rgr.  I couldn't find anything definitive regarding build-up, any testing or anything.  As a side note, have you thought of oil sampling before and after centrifuging, to see just how much particulate the process removes?
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2012, 09:42:43 PM »
Rgr.  I couldn't find anything definitive regarding build-up, any testing or anything.  As a side note, have you thought of oil sampling before and after centrifuging, to see just how much particulate the process removes?

This system gets down to 1 micron or lower in filtration. The filters on my truck only go to 15 microns.
Doing before and after sampling is a good idea.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2012, 09:44:46 PM »
Hmmm, lemme try to explain what I have in my peabrain and let you shoot holes in it.

WVO tank connected to the in-line pump which is connected to centrifuge filter which is connected to the fuel switch to engine.  All a high-pressure system in series (high pressure from the pump forward).

The PA Biodiesel centrifuge is smaller and designed to be mounted on board and has been used for decades.  80psi spins it at 7500 rpms to clean all contaminants and requires no additional passes.  (however, two filters could be placed in line if a second pass is desired)  This eliminates the need for two tanks. (I've left out a few details for brevity)

Think of it like this.  If you are a hiker and you need to filter water, would you like an in-line filter in the straw for the bladder of your camelbak or do you want to carry two vessels (extra weight) and a separate filter?

Hat tip from me to you for the work you have done (+1).  Shoot holes in my idea here.

I guess that would work as long as you do not send too much processed oil back to the main fuel tank and cause an over flow. Since you can not easily regulate the rate of UVO processing you would have to make sure you have enough space to store the extra production you would be making.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 01:52:40 PM »
Almost have everything together.

I am having to rig up the gravity feed system. I hope to have it tested out soon (with pics of course)
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Offline bdhutier

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 03:18:10 PM »
Crack the code for me on the point of centrifuging WVO...

A standard, quality diesel fuel filter filters down to somewhere around 12 microns.  I can understand centrifuging waste engine oil to get the abrasives out, sort of.  I'm not sure there's much point to that, either.  You're running engine oil already contains and cycles the iron, copper, silica, etc. throughout the engine as it is.  I'd be the most concerned (if you didn't produce the waste oil) with water, coolant, and other fluids like brake cleaner mixed in with the oil.  But pre-filtered WVO in the tank is (theoretically) no dirtier than the diesel from the pump, so why the added step?

Of course the soot, which makes the used oil black, is non-abrasive.  So who cares about that.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 04:00:31 PM »

A standard, quality diesel fuel filter filters down to somewhere around 12 microns.  I can understand centrifuging waste engine oil to get the abrasives out, sort of.  I'm not sure there's much point to that, either.  You're running engine oil already contains and cycles the iron, copper, silica, etc. throughout the engine as it is. I'd be the most concerned (if you didn't produce the waste oil) with water, coolant, and other fluids like brake cleaner mixed in with the oil.  But pre-filtered WVO in the tank is (theoretically) no dirtier than the diesel from the pump, so why the added step?


This process removes water and other bad fluids. This also filters down to about 1 micron so it puts less wear and tear on the current 15 micron fuel filters.
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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 07:55:56 PM »
interesting, never heard of this. post pics and results when you get it all working. thanks


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Offline ag2

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2012, 10:08:09 PM »
Quote
Since you can not easily regulate the rate of UVO processing you would have to make sure you have enough space to store the extra production you would be making.

How about truly filtering on demand like a float, pressure switch and electric pump?  Pump cycles on/off when little reservoir gets low.(Flashback to old carburetor in the station wagon that had this, or the reservoir in your toilet.)  This reservoir, should the float or pump fail, could have a return system back to the WVO tank.
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 10:40:12 PM »
How about truly filtering on demand like a float, pressure switch and electric pump?  Pump cycles on/off when little reservoir gets low.(Flashback to old carburetor in the station wagon that had this, or the reservoir in your toilet.)  This reservoir, should the float or pump fail, could have a return system back to the WVO tank.

We are starting to get a little bit complex. :) Would be easier to just process enough to keep on hand for however far you are going (plus some)
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2012, 10:58:45 PM »
How about truly filtering on demand like a float, pressure switch and electric pump?  Pump cycles on/off when little reservoir gets low.(Flashback to old carburetor in the station wagon that had this, or the reservoir in your toilet.)  This reservoir, should the float or pump fail, could have a return system back to the WVO tank.

Make sure you also install a handle.  You may need to "jiggle the handle".
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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 11:13:56 PM »
Well I processed my first 2.5 gallons of oil. Kind of a fun.

The ball valve let me control the flow into the heater and centrifuge. It was not until I was halfway through that I realized I was a dumb ass and did not turn on the heater.  no problems though as the garage was sort of warm.

Everything went well and I had no spills. When I turned off the motor and it finally stopped spinning the oil in the bowl and the waste emptied into the "bad" oil drain.

That thing sounds mean when it is spinning at 6,000 rpm.

Right now I only have a 5 gallon used oil bucket to feed it so I need to come up with something with a bit more volume so I don't have to keep feeding it to get a good amount done.

Orange bucket on top of the fridge is the starting point. The small bucket on the right is where the oil goes once you shut it down. The big one on the left is what I am going to fill. (then move to a 55 gallon one)

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Offline cmxterra

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 11:18:52 PM »
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Offline Texas Sawduster

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 11:46:17 AM »
LOCK N LOAD !!!!

Offline rikkrack

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Re: oil/diesel centrifuge
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 11:54:07 AM »
Although I do not have a diesel YET wanted to stay updated on this thread and developments. Great posts and information. thanks for sharing!

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