Author Topic: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?  (Read 5491 times)

Offline backwoods_engineer

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AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« on: November 27, 2012, 06:27:55 PM »
I'm using a single-point sling on my AR, but haven't gotten used to it.  (It's the BlackHawk! sling, with a ProMag ambi receiver buffer tube mount.) It seems you don't have a lot of control.  I've got the sling over the weak shoulder.

What are y'all doing for slings on your AR?  Single point?  Two point?  Three point?  Are you "tethering" or clipping to your tac vest or belt?

Inform me, my friends, and let's discuss.

Offline Joe_Nobody

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 07:58:35 PM »
I haven't seen a 3-pointer in years...at least not on a professional. (Maybe on A2's? someone out there from the Marine's might know?)

For years, the single point was preferred in CQB type roles. SWAT and other door kickers liked the 1-pointer because they could switch shoulders to pie doorways, left/right corner and raise, snatch and buddy rush.

Normal infantry liked 2 point slings because you can do more with the weapon while not fighting. Most allowed the operator to pull it tight against their chest, throw it around to their back or even hold it under their arm. Running while carrying a rifle was always easier with a two point.

Now days, most of the pros I work with have gone to a hybrid. Magpul started the whole thing and now just about all the providers have rigs that allow you to switch from one to two quickly and without loosing any function.

I think these are one of the best additions to the battle rifle in a long time and well worth the investment.

I always tell preppers that they will be carrying that rifle a whole lot more than they will be shooting it. Having a sling that takes the weapon out of your workspace (around to your back for example) or that simply stays out of the way is important. It the rifle is constantly banging into your legs or other sensitive areas between your legs, you'll want to set it down more often and that's never good.


Joe

Offline bdhutier

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 08:05:21 PM »
Of the options available to me, I prefer single-points, but loop it over my strong shoulder.  Weak shoulder causes the weapon to just lay wrong for me. 

To illustrate, I'm right-handed.  The sling would be looped so when transitioning to sidearm, I would "throw" the rifle under my right arm, and it would travel around to my back.  We used to have three point slings, and I hated them... I also do not tether to body armor/gear.  I prefer the ability to quickly relocate the weapon to my back, or side.

The last key for me, like Joe said, is the fast transitions between left and right shoulders.  Whether it's clearing a facility, or adapting to cover, a quick shoulder swap without having to undress myself from the weapon is an important capability for me personally. 

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Offline Fyrediver

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 12:07:50 AM »
I stick with a traditional two point GI sling.  It's the way I was raised so I'm comfortable with it.  Don't have any experience with single point.  It looks like it'd work very well in the CQB scenario, but less so for long distance shots. 

I use my sling to stabilize my form when shooting.  Again, it's the way I was raised to carry and to shoot, so feels very natural to me.   

Offline nelson96

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 12:34:54 AM »
I use one I found at Savvy Sniper called the QUAD dual QD MS.  It's a dual (1 & 2 point).  I'll admit, I don't know nuth'n, so what do you guys think of this for praticality?

I'll say these guys are very customer oriented (I've purchased two different slings from them) and were very willing to accomodate me in changes I asked for (sent one back to them for changes to be made) and refused to accept payment for shipping back to me and made the changes for free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDw6i6bLr0
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 12:42:27 AM »
I use the type that Maineprepper builds on his Youtube video.  This type of sling can be used as a one or two point sling.  Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPInL7sZbpA

How to build it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbUyIC3yE70

I've built four of them so far.  I don't currently have a source for anything besides the drink tubes and 550 cord, as the bungee cord and HK clips were bought off Ebay auctions.  Here are the material links:

Drink tube covers:

http://www.skdtac.com/Hydration-Tube-Cover-p/htc.050.htm
I went with the Marpat Woodland.  By the way, SKD is Ninja Certified (oh, yeah)

550 cord:

http://www.campingsurvival.com/oldr10fe.html

Here are pictures of the ones I made.



These are the only types of "combat slings" I use now.  If you watch Maineprepper's videos you'll get an idea of how much better the design is for one handed shooting, throwing your rifle to your back for transition, and the retention it affords to keep it out of your way and secure in a SAFE position.  I'm also working on one or two that don't utilize HK clips for quieter operation.  After that I'll be doing some paracord slings for more traditional style (non-tactical) rifle carry.  Hope this helps!
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 12:46:16 AM »
I use one I found at Savvy Sniper called the QUAD dual QD MS.  It's a dual (1 & 2 point).  I'll admit, I don't know nuth'n, so what do you guys think of this for praticality?

I'll say these guys are very customer oriented (I've purchased two different slings from them) and were very willing to accomodate me in changes I asked for (sent one back to them for changes to be made) and refused to accept payment for shipping back to me and made the changes for free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDw6i6bLr0

Holy CRAP!!  $85 or $125?  Ouch.  I think I've got $11 or $12 each into my slings.  Nelson96, shoot me an address in a private message and I'll ship you one for free.  It might even make it by Christmas.  Hopefully it'll take some of the sting out of the other sling purchase.  That's assuming you want it.
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Offline nelson96

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 12:56:24 AM »
Holy CRAP!!  $85 or $125?  Ouch.  I think I've got $11 or $12 each into my slings.  Nelson96, shoot me an address in a private message and I'll ship you one for free.  It might even make it by Christmas.  Hopefully it'll take some of the sting out of the other sling purchase.  That's assuming you want it.

I think I paid $65 for it last year and yes, that's still expensive, but I bought it to replace one I paid $34 for (the Larry Vickers Combat Sling) that I didn't really like at all.

I don't know anything about these kind of slings and when surfing video's on the internet I stumbled on to this one and liked the unique features.  Forget the price for a second, what do you think about it?

And thank you for the offer.  I don't need another at this time, but would be willing to pay you for one when I do.  Or I'll try making one, thanks to your links  ;D
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 01:05:05 AM by nelson96 »
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 01:13:21 AM »
No problem Nelson96.  They're ridiculously easy to make.  It takes me about 30 minutes from start to finish after making the first one.

As for the Savvy Sniper sling.  They look very well made and are probably worth the price with the quality of the materials and manufacturing needed.  I'd give it a try in the back yard (maybe in the house if you have neighbors with weak bladders).  Run through some simulated drills and do a lot of jumping, twisting and transitioning (with your gear on).  That's really the only way you'll find out all the pros and cons prior to needing it.  It'll let you know what get's snagged, what makes noise, how much it flops around, etc.
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Offline ncjeeper

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 01:43:24 AM »
Now days, most of the pros I work with have gone to a hybrid. Magpul started the whole thing and now just about all the providers have rigs that allow you to switch from one to two quickly and without loosing any function.
Thats what Im running.
http://www.tieronearms.com/product-p/ms3.htm?1=1&CartID=0
I got mine cheaper at the local gun show though.
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Offline flippydidit

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 02:21:09 AM »
Ncjeeper,

Are those components metal or plastic?
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Offline Winston Smith

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 05:59:48 AM »
Magpul MS3.  I believe it can be used as a single or 2 point, but if you attach it to a sling plate with a ring that slides left and right, you can shoot left or right shoulder without fighting the sling at all.
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Offline fingerstylefunk

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 10:39:35 AM »
Magpul MS3.  I believe it can be used as a single or 2 point, but if you attach it to a sling plate with a ring that slides left and right, you can shoot left or right shoulder without fighting the sling at all.

I love the MS3. I've also got a Blue Force VCAS with mash hooks on my 308 AR with some attachment points. It works well, but isn't as streamlined as the MS3. I've also got plain jane 2 points on several other rifles.

When I was an AK guy, I stuck to the Suarez International style of weapon/sling interactions. It works well. The key points are good, sturdy, simple two point sling and solid connections. Transitions involve throwing the weapon over your head onto your back with support hand going into the loop the sling makes while drawing your side arm. Easy money.

Now, after transitioning back to the Stoner platform from the Kalashnikov, I've been working on some drills from the Magpul and Panteao camps getting re-familiarized with the ergonomics of a Single point and the M4 in general. I installed and staked the ASAP plate on my Colt, I love it. Ambi transitions are sweet. It rattles though.

We've got AR15A2's and 870's at work, and for range and specialty team training we don't use the slings at all. Most of the shotties don't have slings.

When I first started using the Hasty Sling method during our range quals with the AR15A2, the work rangemaster gave me grief at first.

 He's definitely not Jarhead friendly.

My "official" transition with the shotgun when empty is move it to support hand and draw pistol. I'd drop the damn thing if we were actually in the middle of 2 way range action, I don't know how else I'd reload the pistol. I try not to mention reality during mandatory training for my own sake.

For personal use, I envision the use of the sling for 2 point patrol style carry and manipulations for open areas, as well as hasty sling support. For CQB style, single point seems to "feel" better to me. I'm not a big fan of the rifle front sight post whacking me in the sensitive areas though.

Just my $0.02.



« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 10:54:53 AM by fingerstylefunk »
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Offline ncjeeper

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2012, 12:07:10 PM »
Ncjeeper,

Are those components metal or plastic?
Metal.
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Offline flippydidit

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Offline endurance

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2012, 02:26:58 PM »
I currently have a two point.  I once saw a demonstration of a three-point and there's no doubt it's the most versatile system, allowing the gun to be slung like a backpack for long hauls with two straps or carried similar to a two-point.  The only problem is they take too long to get on properly. 

A two point seems like the best balance of comfort for wearing it for hours at a time and not having it get in your way all the time vs. quick to put on for a situation that arises suddenly around the homestead.

I'm in the process of trying the two point from my FN-FAL on my hunting rifle.  To me, having a rifle in a more ready position seems like a better solution than the traditional military style slings.
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Offline backwoods_engineer

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 08:52:33 PM »
WOW!  This thread has been a wealth of knowledge.  On my other, bolt-action rifles, I have regular 2-point GI slings, and use them like I was taught at Appleseed.  I guess that's what makes me uncomfortable with the single-point.

I guess I am going to have to try the three-point.  I like Nate's idea, and am going to have to study them some more.

THANKS GUYS!

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2012, 12:52:49 PM »
I'm in the process of trying the two point from my FN-FAL on my hunting rifle.
Pics please. :)
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Offline fingerstylefunk

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2012, 01:21:17 PM »
Here's some pictures of the 3 sling types I've got if that helps.

The actual moving hook part of the Magpul MS3 is metal, but the back piece is polymer. The main loop near the buttstock is polymer. I do not know if the internals under the polymer are metal however. The Magpul's catches also have locking "sliders" that can keep the hooks from opening. The MS3 also has an adjustable slider that you pull on the sling to adjust length with on the fly. Also is a picture of the MAGPUL Asap, so you can do ambi shoulder transitions when In single point mode.

The blueforce VCAS is the same way. I forgot I took the mash hooks off of the 308 AR to go hunting this year with the heavy pig. I basically did the same thing as the magpul, as far as 2 pt going to single point, by clipping the mash hooks together that I can't find right now for the life of me to take a picture of. Now I've just got it setup so I can hasty sling or shoulder sling it easily. It is also adjustable for over all length on the fly by pulling on the little handle. It lets you set it up for a good compromise between shoulder carry, hasty sling, and patrol style carry. It also has a quick release. I need to knock the front sight off, install a railed gas block, and install a free float handguard....but thats a story for another time.

Lastly is the plain jane 2pt setup I've got on the rest of the AK's and other rifles. I really do like it better for simplicity's sake, but that MS3 is pretty versatile for me so far.






« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 01:27:04 PM by fingerstylefunk »
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Offline microdevil45

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2012, 01:22:13 PM »
Good stuff...




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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2012, 01:40:21 PM »
 :popcorn:
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Offline endurance

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2012, 08:25:23 PM »
Pics please. :)


Browning BAR .270 on FN-FAL 2-point sling




Front sling attachment point (note the BAR allows for 90 degrees of rotation of the front sling to either side.  This definitely helps the rifle lay flat against the body when slung).


Stock attachment point leave a lot of options and doesn't require a rear sling mount.  Simple velcro harness that allows left or right side carry.

Here's the sling I have: http://www.spectergear.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=546
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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2012, 07:06:01 AM »
Here is Larry Vicker's take on AR slings: Preview-he is a two point partisan

http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/carbine-slings/
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Offline backwoods_engineer

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2012, 10:02:53 PM »
Great stuff, guys!  I am really going to have to replace my AR-15's buffer-tube sling mount with one of those Magpuls that fingerstylefunk showed in his pix.  I really like that ambi mount with the ring.

Offline flippydidit

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2012, 10:18:36 PM »
Backwoods_engineer, for the sling point that Fingerstylefunk showed, I'd try to do something with the "metal on metal" attachment.  I've seen many of the "metal on metal" attachments that wear through after time in the field.  Unfortunately in our case it was usually a sling hook wearing through the metal receiver on an M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon).  :'(  Another thing to consider with them are the noise that metal on metal can make in the field.  It doesn't make a whole lot during the daytime (with ambient noise being louder), but at night that clicking can be heard quite a distance.  I'm not trying to dog his setup, just wanted to give you a solution after pointing out what I perceive as an issue.

To "fix" that metal on metal arrangement, I advise people to simply make another "link in the chain" with 550 cord/paracord.  It's cheap, easy and completely eliminates the wear and the noise.  I don't know how easy it would be with that particular sling point, though.  It looks like the only way to get that metal ring off is to cut it and bend it.  At that point it might be better just to leave it off and simply replace that link with a paracord link.  Hope this helps!
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Offline backwoods_engineer

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 03:16:10 PM »
Backwoods_engineer, for the sling point that Fingerstylefunk showed, I'd try to do something with the "metal on metal" attachment.  I've seen many of the "metal on metal" attachments that wear through after time in the field.  Unfortunately in our case it was usually a sling hook wearing through the metal receiver on an M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon).  :'(  Another thing to consider with them are the noise that metal on metal can make in the field.  It doesn't make a whole lot during the daytime (with ambient noise being louder), but at night that clicking can be heard quite a distance.  I'm not trying to dog his setup, just wanted to give you a solution after pointing out what I perceive as an issue.

To "fix" that metal on metal arrangement, I advise people to simply make another "link in the chain" with 550 cord/paracord.  It's cheap, easy and completely eliminates the wear and the noise.  I don't know how easy it would be with that particular sling point, though.  It looks like the only way to get that metal ring off is to cut it and bend it.  At that point it might be better just to leave it off and simply replace that link with a paracord link.  Hope this helps!

Nate, if that's the case, I may just add a paracord loop to the existing ambi sling hook I have:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=3-1024855

Then, I can just attach the sling to the paracord loop, for quietness.  How does that "sound" ?

Offline fingerstylefunk

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 05:27:23 PM »
Backwoods_engineer, for the sling point that Fingerstylefunk showed, I'd try to do something with the "metal on metal" attachment.  I've seen many of the "metal on metal" attachments that wear through after time in the field.  Unfortunately in our case it was usually a sling hook wearing through the metal receiver on an M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon).  :'(  Another thing to consider with them are the noise that metal on metal can make in the field.  It doesn't make a whole lot during the daytime (with ambient noise being louder), but at night that clicking can be heard quite a distance.  I'm not trying to dog his setup, just wanted to give you a solution after pointing out what I perceive as an issue.

To "fix" that metal on metal arrangement, I advise people to simply make another "link in the chain" with 550 cord/paracord.  It's cheap, easy and completely eliminates the wear and the noise.  I don't know how easy it would be with that particular sling point, though.  It looks like the only way to get that metal ring off is to cut it and bend it.  At that point it might be better just to leave it off and simply replace that link with a paracord link.  Hope this helps!

Just my opinion, I don't think you're going to see the single point wear through on <10 lb weapon unless we're talking about 24/7 campfire life and years of use. I do absolutely agree with you about the noise, and posted in my first post that it does indeed rattle when not suspended under tension. I do remember the emphasis on getting our battle rattle nice and quiet, and I'd hate to be the one to get someone killed because I was trying to be tacticool.

Notice on the camo'd dpms lr308 I took the mash hooks off and just ran that Blueforce Vickers Combat Sling through the sling loops because I was taking it hunting. That was strictly for noise discipline concerns.

Ambi transitions are nice with that MS3/ASAP plate single point setup, but the same can be accomplished by just using a normal 2pt sling and holding the rifle. ;)

On a side note, I do like the Magpul kit quite a bit, but there is another issue with sunlight breaking down polymer over time. I don't know if the Magpul plastic blend has the same potential for failure. I'm curious to see the lifespan of that MS3 Sling and all of the polymer connections. I wonder if we've got any past contractor types who've used non-military issue for any length of time with lots of outdoor exposure.

 Anyways, I love that inexpensive, durable sling design you talked about Flippy, pretty friggin cool. Also, I went with mash hooks on some of my other kit as I read some negatives about the HK style hooks, you ever had any problems with the those HK style hooks?
Make a joyful noise to the LORD, all the earth; break forth into joyous song and sing praises! --Psalm 98:4
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears; let the weak say, "I am a warrior." Joel 3:10

Offline Winston Smith

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 09:06:25 PM »
Backwoods_engineer, for the sling point that Fingerstylefunk showed, I'd try to do something with the "metal on metal" attachment.

I agree this is a flaw, you might try painting the ring (or the plate part that touches the ring) with some tool coating from Harbor Freight or Tractor Supply(too bad Magpul didn't think of this; they do enough right that I can overlook this oops)

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Offline 16onRockandRoll

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2012, 02:59:20 AM »
Phase 5 Tactical are local boys for me, and we carry their PDW and a lot of their accessories in the store. They have a really nice revolving sling mount. It swings about 45* each way, but it's on a pivot, so it's quiet. IMO, it's all the function of the Magpul (which I like also), without the noise.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Offline adampjr

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Re: AR Single-Point vs. Two Point or 3-Point Slings?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2012, 05:49:44 AM »
I can't add much to what has already been said here, but I used the 3 point style sling in Iraq and when I get an AR I will use that sling. Carrying the rifle in the 3pt was both comfortable (relatively) and the rifle was always ready. I could easily switch between having the rifle in front of me where I could quickly use it or behind me.
the one point sling results in the rifle banging against the side or your leg or your knee.