Will LDS/Mormons Be Targeted for Their Preps?

[loyalty4eva]

ok this whole thread just bugs me. If things were really as bad as to targeting people for food it wouldnt just be one group of peopl, that people would target. THEY WOULD TARGET ANYONE WITH FOOD!

That is all.

[Heavy G]

True, anyone with food would be targeted.  But people think Mormons have tons of food so hungry people would target Mormons.

I bet you $10 we see Mormons targeted for having food here in the near future.

[allofthemonkeys]

As a Mormon, I can see things coming about in any number of ways.  Knowing some of my extended family, they will come crawling back to the rest of us for help, which we will give when and if we can.  I grew up with uncle who talked about the hunt and guns over family get-togethers, and encouraged me with my interest in firearms.  I grew up in a western state where 40% of houses have a truck in the gun rack and 3 days of school off for the hunt in the fall.  Most of the population of my state are Mormon, active or not, and my congregation can be mapped out in a matter of city blocks.  If we are targeted, I would agree that we are willing to help where we can, and seeing the member of my Ward (congregation) I would not doubt that we would organize to defend each other as well as those in our boundaries who also need our help.

[kbg]

Okay so I am a Momon and we are often taught to keep a supply of preps and have open meetings that help prepare as well as the church has a very large cannery that offers times that members as well as non-members can come and can and store their own food at cost.  We are  not worried about being a target any more than anyone else. The church itself has vast amounts of food and survival/disaster gear available and they respond to every disaster around the world. They will be able to give vast amounts of aid to their members as well as everyone else.
We dont have any reason to hide or pack weapons any different than anyone else. We use common sense just like all of you to be prepared and keep our preps and families safe.

[Heavy G]

Okay so I am a Momon and we are often taught to keep a supply of preps and have open meetings that help prepare as well as the church has a very large cannery that offers times that members as well as non-members can come and can and store their own food at cost.  We are  not worried about being a target any more than anyone else. The church itself has vast amounts of food and survival/disaster gear available and they respond to every disaster around the world. They will be able to give vast amounts of aid to their members as well as everyone else.
We dont have any reason to hide or pack weapons any different than anyone else. We use common sense just like all of you to be prepared and keep our preps and families safe.

I respectfully disagree.  I know politics.  I know government.  I know anti-Christian bigotry.  I see all these things combining, at least in a left-wing wacko place like the Seattle area, to mean that when things get really bad, desperate people will start looking for people who have stuff.  Word will get around that "Mormons have food" and the witch hunt will begin.  Now, mind you, I only foresee these happening in a very bad situation. 

It will only take a couple instances of people targeting individual Mormon families for this to be a big concern to Mormons (and anyone else who is a decent person).

[chickchoc]

I agree that anyone with food or other needed supplies will be a target for ravaging locusts (Locusts are the highly destructive migratory versions of the common grasshoppers.)   With all the chaos in the NE, I wonder if that idea has occurred to any of the affected unprepared?? 

[inbox485]

Just some added perspective on this since it is already being necro posted.

First, it is a regular thing to hear about how it is important to be prepared for everything from disaster to job loss (yeah the LDS church beat Jack to the punch on that one) as well as being ready to help other in time of need. But, not all or even most Mormons keep the stereotypical 1 year food supply. I would say most are far better than average in terms of having stocked pantries,  but I know some families that are in the days to a week at most range. So targeting people that have food makes sense in certain circumstances to certain people, but busting into a random Mormon's house isn't exactly a guarantee they have enough food to make it worth while.

Second, on defense, I could some it up best with a direct quote from Joseph Smith: "While we will be the last to oppress, we will be the last to be driven from our post. ... Any man who will not fight for his wife and children is a coward and a bastard." (Joseph Smith, journal, 29 Jan. 1843.) About the only thing more likely than a Mormon having food on hand is that they will defend home and family with a rather reckless abandon. Putting myself in the shoes of a two legged rat, I'd be pretty desperate before I'd consider that a good idea.

[Heavy G]

Just some added perspective on this since it is already being necro posted.

... 
But, not all or even most Mormons keep the stereotypical 1 year food supply.

....

So targeting people that have food makes sense in certain circumstances to certain people, but busting into a random Mormon's house isn't exactly a guarantee they have enough food to make it worth while.

True, but rumors among desperate people not take this into account.  Remember the setting: terrified, hungry, angry people.  They'll be irrational.  If an angry mobs finds a Mormon family doesn't have any food, the mob will probably assume the Mormons have plenty but are hiding it. 

[4bull]

Yes they will and everyone else that word of mouth has spread that they (stock up ).
 I'm thinking about a handout book a little 4 x4 thin book .
Something like , you have said something that is inappropriate , like ill come to your house for food.
This is what you should have at bare minimum and if you don't then your -------.
And some info , fallowed by a warning of                    then a little etiquette ?
 But it may just make me a bigger target.
Just tired of peoples mouth in public .

[inbox485]

Yes they will and everyone else that word of mouth has spread that they (stock up ).
 I'm thinking about a handout book a little 4 x4 thin book .
Something like , you have said something that is inappropriate , like ill come to your house for food.
This is what you should have at bare minimum and if you don't then your -------.
And some info , fallowed by a warning of                    then a little etiquette ?
 But it may just make me a bigger target.
Just tired of peoples mouth in public .

I've actually given that some thought. Something like a pocket preparedness pamphlet. Small enough to keep handy and pass out.

On the Mormons being targeted though, yes they will be targeted along with anybody else that isn't part of the starving zombie horde. You also have to consider what it takes to get a ward list to find the Mormons to begin with. The types that would know how to get that are typically the types I'd worry about. What I see being targeted are people that advertise (the minvan with an LDS sticker, the truck with the NRA sticker, things like that). Second on the target list is simply anybody either not starving or not part of the looters. If everybody is starving, not starving makes you a target. If house to house looting is going on, having an occupied house makes you a target.

I think the whole target the Mormons thing is a preptard (yes I just made that word up) fantasy right in line with going off in the woods, looting walmart, or being the guy that plans to loot with a 308 and his 10K rounds of ammo.

[PlunjProtection]

Okay so I am a Momon and we are often taught to keep a supply of preps and have open meetings that help prepare as well as the church has a very large cannery that offers times that members as well as non-members can come and can and store their own food at cost.  We are  not worried about being a target any more than anyone else. The church itself has vast amounts of food and survival/disaster gear available and they respond to every disaster around the world. They will be able to give vast amounts of aid to their members as well as everyone else.
We dont have any reason to hide or pack weapons any different than anyone else. We use common sense just like all of you to be prepared and keep our preps and families safe.

Unless you are privy to very specific information from a credible source, this is, in my opinion, irresponsible and how rumors spread and people become complacent.  If you have such a source, I would like to know the person's name and capacity in the church.  As far as I know a representative with any standing in the welfare services or a member of the 70 or above has never said anything about this.  On the contrary, the doctrine for nearly 100 years has very clearly been to be self reliant.  Implicit is to not rely on the church or anyone else.  Sure there are canneries and bishop's storehouses, but these are constantly being replenished and do not feed the entire church--and certainly not "everyone else."  The statement you make is also overly broad. The church does not respond to every disaster around the world and I am not aware of the church having vast amounts of survival gear.  I assisted in the weeks after Katrina, and we provided everything for ourselves.  I never saw survival gear and we camped at ground zero of the cleanup operations. 

The closest thing I have to anyone discussing this is a person in charge of the welfare region that encompassed all of Idaho and perhaps some other areas.  This was not some low level volunteer; he had responsibility and was very knowledgeable.  It was 1998-99 time frame in a Sunday night fireside in a stake center in Idaho where he was the only speaker.  I was in attendance and this representative addressed food storage and said very directly that the church's stores were never meant to replace the members' obligation to prepare a year's supply.  He also mathematically went through how much grain the church had in that region (which as I recall was one of the highest producing areas--it makes sense being in Idaho--look at what you get from the cannery) and then divided that by the number of members and even active members.  I cannot recall specific figures, but it was a very short period of time.  I think it was a very few weeks at the most for even just active members (think about your year's supply divided by the number of people on your street).  But it certainly wasn't for a year or even months.  He counseled very plainly to have our own food storage because there would not be enough to go around.

I also asked a person in charge of our local cannery in the area.  He would not provide specifics and didn't really want to discuss, but he said there was grain in the silos out back.  However, he confirmed that it would not last very long when divided among members.  Look at the counsel by church leaders.  Some of that is contained in the free LDS Preparedness Manual.  Many other quotes can be found by searching the talks.

I don't mean to be curt about this, but the comment is based on fallacy and cannot be allowed to grow.  Opinion needs to be clearly stated as such and should have some basis stated.  I also think it would be prudent to consider your potential target status and think about possible precautions to take.  The story of Hezekiah comes to mind in Isaiah.  I actively encourage others to prepare in small or significant ways based on my comfort with them.  But to not consider yourself a potential target is short sighted in my view.  It's easy to say you won't be a target when the lights are, the police patrol the street, and the stores are open.  If you need a year's supply, there has probably been a fundamental shift unless it is just a family disaster.

To everyone else: no, the church does not have enough to feed everyone.  No the members don't have enough to feed everyone.  In fact, most members do not have a year's supply.  I know this from personal experience and from a study our stake president shared with us.  However, I cannot recall the specific percent (it was low), so I will not share the figure I seem to recall.  A Pew Research study said 82% of Mormon respondents said they keep food storage, but they did not specify how much.  58% had at least a three-month supply.  I can tell you that is much higher than where I live and much higher than the year's supply figure.   I can't tell you how many times people have said: "I know where I'm going when there is a problem."

I'm with HeavyG on this one.  Someone else made a good comment about government officials confiscating.  I could definitely see that.  Think of the lines used already: the burden of global citizenship, hoarding, more than your fair share, equitable redistribution, etc. 

[cptd]

I think that in a real life situation where people in the cities were literally starving, thinking that anyone anywhere who has food would be ably to live in peace is just not taking the politics of the scenario into consideration.

Someone like President Obama is not going to allow the people who voted for him en masse to starve, at least not while there is food to be had out in the countryside.

If people are really starving all he would have to do is use the power given him under the existing laws of the land. Under existing laws, like the Posse Committatus Act, Obama, or whoever is president, can use the Army - not the national guard, but the federal army - to perform a variety of duties domestically during a civil emergency. The Army would deploy mess units to cook up soup for the masses, and if they ran out of food, but got wind of people out in the country who had it, it would be within his legal power to send the Army out there to requisition the supplies of the people who had prepared. Whether you're a Mormon or Jew or you talk to the Spirit People, it won't matter. What will matter is you've got what's in demand. The process by which the Army can requisition mission essential goods and services is also already established by law and would not require anything but a stroke of a pen to execute. There is a papertrail involved but essentially what it boils down to is that if they need your stuff they can take it as long as they give you a receipt that promises future payment by the government.

Now on top of crippling taxes you're busting your butt in your garden and they're taking all your sweet potatoes. But it's OK because you've got a drawerful of IOU's and a free meal at the government soup kitchen. That's fair, isn't it?

The scary thing is, they already have the power to do that sort of thing. It's already on the books. There wouldn't have to be a coup or a revolution. They already have the power to do this. All that would be required to execute would be political expediency, and a Democratic president, who gets 0 votes from the country, would not be losing politically by robbing farmers to feed people in the city. They might even gain popularity from doing it.

When I thought about buying land I considered this sort of scenario and lots of other factors and decided that landownership - or ownership of anything that you can't pick up and take out of the country in a pinch - is a dangerous proposition in a SHTF scenario.I mean, what are you going to do if the Army shows up? Declare war on the 101st Airborne Division? That makes you a domestic terrorist. Do you hide your stuff? Difficult to pull off, and you risk criminal action for interfering with the Army's operations if you are ever discovered. In either scenario you would tried in a Federal court, away from whatever support you might have locally,and serve time in  Federa prison if convicted.

It is my opinion (and it's just my opinion, so there's no need to get ruffled if you don't like the sound of it) that while homesteading and other forms of prepping that involve either sustainable production at home or eating off of a stockpile lasts only so long as the government doesn't decide to take your stuff and spread it around "for the greater good". When they start doing that there is little or nothing you can do to stop it and you will have no real recourse.

If the laws weren't already in place I'd say it could still be prevented but that cat got out of the bag decades ago, and there is no putting it back. What you have to hope for is that food shortages don't ever get bad enough to make this kind of government action necessary or politically expedient.

[smurf hunter]

When I thought about buying land I considered this sort of scenario and lots of other factors and decided that landownership - or ownership of anything that you can't pick up and take out of the country in a pinch - is a dangerous proposition in a SHTF scenario.I mean, what are you going to do if the Army shows up? Declare war on the 101st Airborne Division? That makes you a domestic terrorist. Do you hide your stuff? Difficult to pull off, and you risk criminal action for interfering with the Army's operations if you are ever discovered. In either scenario you would tried in a Federal court, away from whatever support you might have locally,and serve time in  Federa prison if convicted.

It is my opinion (and it's just my opinion, so there's no need to get ruffled if you don't like the sound of it) that while homesteading and other forms of prepping that involve either sustainable production at home or eating off of a stockpile lasts only so long as the government doesn't decide to take your stuff and spread it around "for the greater good". When they start doing that there is little or nothing you can do to stop it and you will have no real recourse.

I'd much rather have something today, and risk losing it tomorrow, compared to having nothing to start with.

Lots of bad scenarios exists where the military doesn't "borrow" your preps.   Personally, I feel forfeiting preps for a probable natural disaster or similar emergency because there's a less probable risk of government confiscation is irresponsible.

My $0.02

[cptd]

I'd much rather have something today, and risk losing it tomorrow, compared to having nothing to start with.

Lots of bad scenarios exists where the military doesn't "borrow" your preps.   Personally, I feel forfeiting preps for a probable natural disaster or similar emergency because there's a less probable risk of government confiscation is irresponsible.

My $0.02

You haven't read any of my other posts. I'm not advocating having no preps. I'm just advocating having, among your preps, the means by which you can escape with your family in the event of things getting bad enough to merit that. That means having enough resources, and a plan, by which you can leave the United States and start over with your family someplace else in the world.

I don't think that anyone who lacks that plan of action is truly prepped for a really bad scenario.

Let me put it to you another way. I hope the government never exercises its power that way, but if it does, I won't be here, and neither will my family or my provisions. We'll have left already. I know where I will go and I have enough resources available to start over when I get there.

[smurf hunter]

You haven't read any of my other posts. I'm not advocating having no preps. I'm just advocating having, among your preps, the means by which you can escape with your family in the event of things getting bad enough to merit that. That means having enough resources, and a plan, by which you can leave the United States and start over with your family someplace else in the world.

I don't think that anyone who lacks that plan of action is truly prepped for a really bad scenario.

Let me put it to you another way. I hope the government never exercises its power that way, but if it does, I won't be here, and neither will my family or my provisions. We'll have left already. I know where I will go and I have enough resources available to start over when I get there.

For years, people have been writing and calling into Jack's show saying things along the lines of "if you have a garden you'll be a target when SHTF".  As a long time TSPer, I feel that question has been answered and the vast majority of TSP is content with the subject. 

Back to your subject of expatriating to some promised land - if the US of A is such a mess, that the army is confiscating private food stores, nationalizing farms, etc. etc.  I find it difficult to imagine there are many foreign lands with MORE liberty and MORE prosperity at that point.  It sounds really romantic to imagine a secret swiss bank account with gold, or a hidden tropical island home stead, but we all know that level of preparation is not accessible to 99.9% of this audience.

[cptd]

For years, people have been writing and calling into Jack's show saying things along the lines of "if you have a garden you'll be a target when SHTF".  As a long time TSPer, I feel that question has been answered and the vast majority of TSP is content with the subject. 

Back to your subject of expatriating to some promised land - if the US of A is such a mess, that the army is confiscating private food stores, nationalizing farms, etc. etc.  I find it difficult to imagine there are many foreign lands with MORE liberty and MORE prosperity at that point.  It sounds really romantic to imagine a secret swiss bank account with gold, or a hidden tropical island home stead, but we all know that level of preparation is not accessible to 99.9% of this audience.

To each his own!

To be sure, one would have to be very selective about where to settle, and how long to stay, in a foreign land. But to paint the world as uniformly dependent upon the United States for security and other important resources is probably not an accurate picture of the world.

And I'm not saying there will be a utopia out there, or even that life will be great. I'm just saying that it is my advice to have a plan to get out. I don't think a true survival plan is complete without that.

But, to each his own. If it doesn't make sense for you, then disregard - I wish you luck with your plans!

[inbox485]

To each his own!

To be sure, one would have to be very selective about where to settle, and how long to stay, in a foreign land. But to paint the world as uniformly dependent upon the United States for security and other important resources is probably not an accurate picture of the world.

And I'm not saying there will be a utopia out there, or even that life will be great. I'm just saying that it is my advice to have a plan to get out. I don't think a true survival plan is complete without that.

But, to each his own. If it doesn't make sense for you, then disregard - I wish you luck with your plans!

As the US progresses in it's socialist revolution, several other countries (including former and current socialist countries) are moving in the opposite direction. I wouldn't be shocked if in the future there is an exodus to freedom from the US. But I don't see that being the case just yet.