Author Topic: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper  (Read 5319 times)

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2012, 08:03:48 PM »
follow up here - just posted about 30 min ago
http://www.lohud.com/article/20121225/NEWS02/121225002/The-Journal-News-LoHud-com-assailed-publishing-map-gun-permit-holders?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage


not sorry at all.  just defending their right to publish everything.

Imagine that....so much for "strongly worded" objections. Told you it would not do a damn thing to change their minds! HA! Some people only get things the hard way.....
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Offline Cooter Brown

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #31 on: December 25, 2012, 08:17:42 PM »
No offense, but a "strongly worded" letter is not likely to do anything at all. So what do you do after that route does not work and they go on to the next article and post some more? Why is it considered bad behavior to use the same public information that they used to show them how it feels?

No offense back, but I never suggested a strongly worded letter.

I stand by what I did say;
I'm as cynical as anybody, but I won't let the bad behavior of others be a justification for behaving badly myself. There are other ways to register our outrage at her irresponsible behavior than indulging in that very same behavior.

Publishing someone's personal info for any nutjob to do something stupid with is just plain wrong no matter who does it.


Hmmm; if it was wrong of her to do this, then it's equally wrong for someone to do it to her, and for all the same reasons.
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Offline EagleSteel

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2012, 10:32:36 PM »
@Eagelsteel
It is true that some criminal elements will avoid the homes they know are armed but there are some criminal elements that won't care if the house is armed. Releasing the names and addresses like the paper did will give the criminals an advantage as they know they are walking into a home that is armed. A concealed carry individual relys on the criminal not being aware that someone is armed and that few seconds gives the ccw the advantage to overcome a crime.
Now it is guaranteed that criminals that break into these houses will have a weapon and they will be more apt to shoot anyone at the slightest of movement.

The good news is that the liberal media will be happy to report that homeowners with guns are ineffective against criminals (note sarcasm).

I disagree, criminals are in the business of getting away with criminal acts. They will go after the easiest and safest marks. They will not take unessessary risks if they don't have to. That priciple has proven true in C.C. States. Crime rate is lower because they don't know who's carrying. They areas they target most is gun free zones.
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Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2012, 08:20:49 AM »
looks liek hte media is circling the wagons to defend itself

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 (thank you Cedar :)
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Offline karim18

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2012, 09:12:07 AM »
Actually a buddy of mine who lives in Brooklyn and owns a handgun (legally) there told me its not a CCW list but rather a list of ANYONE who has a firearm permit... so it's a little bit worse than just the CCW folks (who are not really in great numbers in NYC)
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Offline Shaunypoo

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2012, 09:28:05 AM »
If I were in the map area and didn't have a firearm for one reason or another and so was not cited on the map, I'd be pissed thinking that she made me a possible future victim because criminals could use the list to find potential targets.

The folks over at Gannet better hope that the map never shows up in the history of a computer in the course of a criminal investigation.

If I lived anywhere on that map and was robbed, I would sue the newspaper regardless of whether or not I owned a gun.  You could try to justify that you were robbed because the criminals knew you didn't have a gun/wanted your gun.  Either way, this map tells criminals something they want to know before committing a crime.  It might not hold up in court, but that doesn't mean the argument can't be made.  It is obvious the editors didn't think about the repercussions of letting an article like this get published.
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Offline Oil Lady

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2012, 02:16:23 PM »
I've been on Google News and searching for all instances of this news story.

I have read dozens of news items all covering this one, and I happened upon NPR's coverage within minutes after NPR posted it to the web. And thus I was one of the very first to comment on that news item.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/26/168075748/n-y-website-posts-map-of-people-with-gun-permits-draws-criticism

It's a lively debate with a lot of intellectuals sounding off on both sides. 

Meanwhile, my one comment about battered women which I have repeatedly posted on a half dozen news sites over the past 2 days (I also made that comment back on Page 1 of this same thread here at TSP) is being hashed out there. One idiot said my observation about battered women didn't matter because if those battered women owned guns, then it was already a matter of public record. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 08:43:40 PM by Nicodemus »
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Offline Cooter Brown

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2012, 02:21:36 PM »

I have read dozens of news items all covering this one, and I happened upon NPR's coverage within minutes after NPR posted it to the web. Ans thus I was one of the very first to comment on that news item.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/26/168075748/n-y-website-posts-map-of-people-with-gun-permits-draws-criticism

It's a lively debate with a lot of intellectuals sounding off on both sides. 

Meanwhile, my one comment about battered women which I have repeatedly posted on a half dozen news sites over the past 2 days (I also made that comment back on Page 1 of this same thread here at TSP) is being hashed out there. One idiot said my observation about battered women didn't matter because if those battered women owned guns, then it was already a matter of public record.

Good job keeping your cool in the midst of all that!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 08:44:31 PM by Nicodemus »
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Offline Adam B.

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2012, 02:54:04 PM »
Not saying I agree with gun owners being treated like sex offenders — however, TO ME that list looks more like a "LIST OF PLACES NOT TO ROB OR COMMIT CRIME" rather than a "LETS GO GET ALL THOSE JERKS!!!" list.

Frankly, if I were a home burglar I would find this an INVALUABLE TOOL to plan which neighborhoods and houses I would be robbing.

Maybe the GUN GRABBER crowd will volunteer to put their "blip" on a giant Google map of "GUN FREE HOMES"
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Offline endurance

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2012, 05:10:08 PM »
For clarification, this wasn't a list of CC permit holders, it was a list of firearms permit holders.  Big difference in NYC since getting a concealed carry permit is not easy at all in that state, but to even own a gun a person must have a permit.
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Offline Oil Lady

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2012, 05:17:32 PM »
Not saying I agree with gun owners being treated like sex offenders — however, TO ME that list looks more like a "LIST OF PLACES NOT TO ROB OR COMMIT CRIME" rather than a "LETS GO GET ALL THOSE JERKS!!!" list.

Frankly, if I were a home burglar I would find this an INVALUABLE TOOL to plan which neighborhoods and houses I would be robbing.

Maybe the GUN GRABBER crowd will volunteer to put their "blip" on a giant Google map of "GUN FREE HOMES"


I would like to share one super-duper awesome and very eye-opening comment posted at the NPR story by a liberal left-wing gun-owner (no that is not an oxymoron).

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/26/168075748/n-y-website-posts-map-of-people-with-gun-permits-draws-criticism#comment-747927336

Quote

... When I obtained my MI CPL and bought my handguns - one for plinking, one for IDPA competition, one for carrying - a strong message was communicated about advertising my possession of guns. Basically, I was told that although the decals look cool, the bumper stickers poignant (albeit far right propaganda) and many people did in fact display such brand loyalty on vehicles and in windows on their homes, the problem was that the information was less a deterrent than an invitation to criminals wanting access to guns they couldn't obtain legally. So, no proud displays advertise that I have guns other than if I am at a shooting event and then they are on my gun bag or sewn onto my jacket or shirt worn only at the competition....


« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 05:48:13 PM by Oil Lady »
"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2012, 11:10:02 PM »


I would like to share one super-duper awesome and very eye-opening comment posted at the NPR story by a liberal left-wing gun-owner (no that is not an oxymoron).

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/26/168075748/n-y-website-posts-map-of-people-with-gun-permits-draws-criticism#comment-747927336

I've heard that point of view before.  Don't advertise you're a gun owner.  Someone might want to take it from you.  The government will know where to come if they start confiscations. Yadda yadda.  A similar view has been presented for open carry.  In some places, criminals may see open carry of a gun as a challenge to their dominance.  I used to subscribe to both theories.  OPSEC and all.

But I had an epiphany a while back.  F**k them.  If I let them control my behavior, if I change in fear of their response to me, then I am giving them power over my life.  They don't deserve that.

If I want to wear a Team GLOCK hat, or have NRA stickers on my Jeep, I'm not going to shy away from it because of the proclivities of criminals. If I'm hiking in bear/meth lab country, I'm definitely carrying, and probably doing so openly.  If I need to stop for gas when I head home at night, I'm stopping near work where it's convenient, not driving half way across town to get to the "good neighborhood".  I cannot control what others think or do, but I do not have to change my behavior to please/placate them either.  My life and time is valuable to me.  It is finite.  I do not intend to compromise it for the sake of common thugs.

Much like publishing the address of the editors in response to their map of gun owners.  The gun owners did nothing to provoke such publication.  And of the paper is so happy to freely share information, then by the same token they should take no issue to their home addresses being published. An eye for an eye.

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2012, 12:02:40 AM »
I've heard that point of view before.  Don't advertise you're a gun owner.  Someone might want to take it from you.  The government will know where to come if they start confiscations. Yadda yadda.  A similar view has been presented for open carry.  In some places, criminals may see open carry of a gun as a challenge to their dominance.  I used to subscribe to both theories.  OPSEC and all.

But I had an epiphany a while back.  F**k them.  If I let them control my behavior, if I change in fear of their response to me, then I am giving them power over my life.  They don't deserve that.

If I want to wear a Team GLOCK hat, or have NRA stickers on my Jeep, I'm not going to shy away from it because of the proclivities of criminals. If I'm hiking in bear/meth lab country, I'm definitely carrying, and probably doing so openly.  If I need to stop for gas when I head home at night, I'm stopping near work where it's convenient, not driving half way across town to get to the "good neighborhood".  I cannot control what others think or do, but I do not have to change my behavior to please/placate them either.  My life and time is valuable to me.  It is finite.  I do not intend to compromise it for the sake of common thugs.

Much like publishing the address of the editors in response to their map of gun owners.  The gun owners did nothing to provoke such publication.  And of the paper is so happy to freely share information, then by the same token they should take no issue to their home addresses being published. An eye for an eye.

I think you and I will get along just fine....lol. Well put.
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Offline Prepper7

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2012, 03:18:22 AM »
<snip> Now it is guaranteed that criminals that break into these houses will have a weapon and they will be more apt to shoot anyone at the slightest of movement. <snip>

True. Other criminals will watch permit holder's houses and then break in and look for guns when the residents are at work, etc.

Quote
The good news is that the liberal media will be happy to report that homeowners with guns are ineffective against criminals (note sarcasm).

Spot freakin' on!
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Offline hd45hunt

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2012, 07:55:04 AM »
Not exactly sure what all the dots on the map represent.  I saw dots in PA, CT and NJ as well as some dots outside the 3 county area in question (as far north as the Lake George area).  As a matter of fact, I feel slighted because I didn't make their map.  As far as Firearms Permits vs CCP, I'm unsure about NYC, but the rest of the state rifles and shotguns are only covered by Form 4473.  On the flip side my CCP states "valid everywhere except NYC"  the place where one would probably it the most.  Go figure
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Offline Oil Lady

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2012, 09:08:51 AM »
On the flip side my CCP states "valid everywhere except NYC"  the place where one would probably [need] it the most.  Go figure.

Ths is the same link posted earlier in this same thread by TSP member Special K:   

http://christopherfountain.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/so-how-does-journal-news-reporter-dwight-r-worley-rate-a-nyc-pistol-permit/


Quote
So how does Journal – News reporter Dwight R. Worley rate a NYC pistol permit?

Christopher Fountain "For What It's Worth" -- December 24, 2012 · 4:04 pm


...

“...Journal News reporter Dwight R. Worley owns a Smith & Wesson 686 .357 Magnum and has had a residence permit in New York City for that weapon since February 2011.” I’d heard pistol permits were impossible to obtain in New York City unless you were Donald Trump or a friend of the Mayor, but perhaps Dwight knows someone. In any event, should you wish to examine his 357, here’s where to view it...



"This is the first scenario I've seen where I question the survivability of mankind." -- self-made billionaire Richard Rainwater in his business analysis of Peak Oil, "The Rainwater Prophecy," Fortune magazine, Dec 26, 2005

"This is an emergency far worse than World War I and World War II put together." -- CEO of Virgin Airlines, Sir Richard Branson on Peak Oil in CNN's investigative report "We Were Warned: Out of Gas" June 2007/May 2008 03:05

"We've got provisions and lots of beer. The key word is survival on the new frontier." --Steely Dan 1983

"... it doesn’t really matter who is removing your civil liberties, whether it is being done by a democratic government, a kleptocracy, a dictatorship or even the green police. When your civil rights are gone, they’re gone, and you really are in trouble, no matter how good the cause." --UK journalist Anthony Harrington, "Peak Oil and Collapse Scenarios," QFinance, September, 2011

Our parents used to say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of it."
And now our kids say, "Don't worry, the government will take care of us."

No food shall be grown that Monsanto does not own. (It all started with the disastrous 1980 SCOTUS ruling on Diamond v Chakrabarty. Petition your Congressman to revoke all patents on living things.)

"The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself." FDR 1937

The Tin Foil Hat Song by the League of Lady Conspiracists

Offline Luvmy45

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2012, 09:26:55 AM »

Now it is guaranteed that criminals that break into these houses will have a weapon and they will be more apt to shoot anyone at the slightest of move.

Not true. Only stupid criminals will use a weapon during a b&e, because that immediately elevates the crime for more serious prosecution if they a caught. Remember criminals take the path of least resistance, if they are breaking and entering they want no one home, and lots of stuff to pawn, and no weapons on them... If they find a gun in the house they will take it to sell, but not every criminal is looking to acquire a gun so they can go out and shoot someone.

If they know the place has a gun owner...next house please.

Most criminals are not what you see on tv, don't fall for that trap.
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Offline Special K

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2012, 12:03:49 PM »
Thanks Dave for that report...I'm sure the cat will be fine...and in the "It was only a matter of time before another interactive map got published" department...yet another interactive map got published...

The story:
http://www.newrochelletalk.com/content/map-where-are-journal-news-employees-your-neighborhood

Full size map:
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=201650905593228814533.0004d1c39ceef0f9f292a&msa=0

Offline robertov416

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2012, 06:30:12 AM »
Hmmm; if it was wrong of her to do this, then it's equally wrong for someone to do it to her, and for all the same reasons. So much for the moral high ground.

I must respectfully disagree here.  This isn't apples to apples.  What the reporter did was expose unsuspecting people that were minding their own business.  When the reporter's address/bio was revealed in response, it was a consequence of her action.

If you go into the store for a loaf of bread and someone starts slinging lead you're direction unbidden, I don't recommend taking the "moral high ground" and engaging them in a debate.  Sling the lead back at them because it's a consequence of their action toward you.

Offline Fyrediver

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2012, 03:47:45 PM »
One complaint I read is that many people were upset that it was now clear to criminals which homes DIDN'T have permitted firearms! 

Offline Special K

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2013, 09:16:19 AM »
D'oh! First Lohud hires ARMED guards to protect their offices from nonexistent threats but now Lohud's database of subscriber's personal data got hacked and published...tsk, tsk, tsk.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/01/group-claims-hacked-subscriber-database-of-ny-newspaper-which-published-gun-permit-map/

And Putnam County denies FOIA request for still more permit addresses...

http://www.jammiewf.com/2013/new-yorks-putnam-county-denies-gannett-papers-request-for-gun-permit-database/

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2013, 07:30:36 PM »
D'oh! First Lohud hires ARMED guards to protect their offices from nonexistent threats but now Lohud's database of subscriber's personal data got hacked and published...tsk, tsk, tsk.

I knew that one was coming....I wonder how long before we see Anonymous?
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Offline Special K

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2013, 07:51:32 PM »
I wonder how long before we see Anonymous?

How will you know who to look for if they are...Anonymous?

(FP left the door wide open and SK strolled right in.  ;D )

Offline Prepper7

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 03:18:31 AM »
One complaint I read is that many people were upset that it was now clear to criminals which homes DIDN'T have permitted firearms!

No doubt! And I know (from discussions I've had with people) that many of those who want the "herd protection" conveyed by firearms in unspecified households are rabid anti-gunners.

Don't believe me? The next time an anti-2nd Amendment type launched into their, "guns are evil" (or "the Founders never intended for individuals...") spiel, ask them if they'd support their cause by posting a "No Guns in This Home" sign in their window.
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Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 07:31:21 AM »
How will you know who to look for if they are...Anonymous?

(FP left the door wide open and SK strolled right in.  ;D )

I think Westboro Baptist (I refuse to call them a church) has gotten pretty good at spotting them lately...

(snort-laugh)

Offline ag2

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #56 on: January 03, 2013, 10:21:55 AM »
I just sent an email to RMGO.org  with this suggestion:

Let's map out the name and address of every politician who has voted against the second amendment.  This would include US Senators and Congress and also state level, including governors and mayors.  Then indicate those who own a firearm.  I would also recommend that we do this for the editor of the newspaper....it looks like someone did it, but it needs to be publicized more.

The difference between what the newspaper did and what I am suggesting is the fact that the newspaper put lives in DANGER.  My suggestion is an attempt to SHAME our politicians and newspaper staff.  I would not condone threats or anything that puts the staff in danger.

I am not opposed to the Freedom of Information Act, but I think the list of people who own firearms should be exempt from public access for safety reasons.

Mild-mannered beans, bullion, band aids, bullets prepper cautiously watching history repeat itself.

Offline jpbearit

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2013, 12:40:52 PM »
It is hard to look at this rationally and not come out swinging with emotional quips and sarcastic remarks on the stupidity of this north eastern liberal media outlet.  After I took a few breaths I had to question why this paper did such an obvious outrageous act.  I could come up with an avalanche of conspiracies to answer that question but the first answer that started to make sense to me came when I asked myself, “why have I never heard of this paper before?”  The paper may or may not be well known in NY, but until they pulled this crap, their reputation never reached my little neck of the woods. So I’m betting that some is trying to make a name for themselves by “standing up” to those” scary and obviously violent gun owners.” It seems obvious to me that the internet and blogosphere is playing this person’s game by reacting to this so loudly.

Well it’s done now so there is no undoing it, but it irks me when I see us, the TSP community, acting as a part of the electronic mob that gather together to complain, yell and through virtual tomatoes.  .  I’ve caught myself doing that crap in the past and I’m ashamed of myself, but I’m even hearing some folks talk about getting out the internet “ropes.”  Don’t encourage Anonymous any more than they already are.  Those people are dangerous.
 
Think what you will about this insane little social explosion. NY invited an incident like this with their asinine dictatorial attempts to control everything that occurs in the life of the citizens of NY. It’s a trend that has been occurring for 100 years now and there appears to be no end to it.  Folks with any desire to have the majority say over what happens in their own life left NY or have been unwinding themselves form the place for quite some time.   Thankfully all of the members of my family who had any tie to the State have been physically removed from it for many, many years.
 
Perhaps this latest outrage will convince a few more to leave.  I doubt it and I’m not sure how much I want the people who haven’t left before now moving anywhere near me. They are apt to bring too much socialist baggage with them.  Not that they would want to live anywhere near so many rednecks and Cajuns.   I’m of a mind to let the people up there deal with their own mess and suggest to my fellow TSPers who don’t live there to just watch this casually, but we all have our own houses to get in order.

I said my peace. I expect some of you will want to give me a good whipping about now.  I’ll let you get on with it.
"we are spending money we don't have to kill people we don't know for reasons we don't understand." - Teller
“I hope I remember my Thriller choreography when I become a zombie.” - unknown
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!" Casablaca (Capt. Renault)
"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli." The Godfather (Clemenza)

Offline ForgedPatriot

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #58 on: January 03, 2013, 01:09:05 PM »
How will you know who to look for if they are...Anonymous?

(FP left the door wide open and SK strolled right in.  ;D )

LOL...strolled in and set up camp!
US Army 87'-90'
Ft. Bliss, White Sands, Holloman AFB
Intendo Certo Ictu

             
~ForgedPatriot

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Concealed carry permit holders posted in the newspaper
« Reply #59 on: January 04, 2013, 07:56:01 PM »
I was watching CBS Evening News and they had a story on the whole deal.  They interviewed two retired cops that were concerned that felons they had arrested or helped convict would come looking for them.

The story closed by saying that the newspaper had received threats and now had (wait for it... ) armed guards posted at their entrance.