Author Topic: Ammo long term storage  (Read 28388 times)

Goober Pyle

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2009, 03:17:34 PM »
2) Just a thought, When you buy 50 cal ammo cans at the gun show or where ever you get them, check the rubber seal on the can and you might need to add some oil to it. Just my opinion



use silicon jelly or spray, like the kind they sell at auto stores for the gaskets around your doors and windows - petrolium based lubes will eat up the rubber over time and cause it to dry out and crack

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2009, 07:55:16 PM »

use silicon jelly or spray, like the kind they sell at auto stores for the gaskets around your doors and windows - petrolium based lubes will eat up the rubber over time and cause it to dry out and crack


I used an alcohol wipe for my ammo can seals.  That's not petroleum.  Is alcohol OK?

Goober Pyle

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2009, 08:05:56 PM »
I've never heard of alchohol doing anything to gasket type rubber, just the petrolium based products.

Offline Who...me?

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2009, 09:12:21 PM »
When you buy a new wiper blade it comes with a little alcohol wipe to clean the blade with so you are probably ok.

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2009, 06:29:00 AM »

When you buy a new wiper blade it comes with a little alcohol wipe to clean the blade with so you are probably ok.


That's what gave me the idea.

homeshow

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2009, 06:50:23 AM »
plain old petroleum jelly that you get at the drug store.  is my go to for all things needing a non caustic lube.  works great and is liquid above 100farenheight.

Goober Pyle

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2009, 08:54:06 AM »
plain old petroleum jelly that you get at the drug store.  is my go to for all things needing a non caustic lube.  works great and is liquid above 100farenheight.

Petrolium jelly isn't as caustic to rubber as some other products, but is still a poor substitute for silicon. It will work, but you are undercutting whatever life the seal has left in it.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 08:56:54 AM by Goober Pyle »

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2009, 02:14:28 PM »
Not too mention the worst thing for your ammo, is the fluctuation of heat and cold it would get in your car. It might take years for it to get to the point of nonfunctioning, but degradation is degradation.


RipT

I was curious about this so I asked city, county and state cops in my area about their agencies policies on ammunition in their cars. None of them currently have policies about storing ammunition, but they all say they end up using their duty rounds at least once per year depending on funding.

homeshow

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2009, 02:39:49 PM »
Petroleum jelly isn't as caustic to rubber as some other products, but is still a poor substitute for silicon. It will work, but you are undercutting whatever life the seal has left in it.
as an auto tech i have used plain petroleum jelly for everything as has my ASE college professor.  no loss of use or degradation has been reported by either of us.  of course it's cheapness and availability may make the manufacturers of other more expensive products have a different opinion.

Offline RacinRob

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2010, 09:54:32 AM »
Here is what I do:

I use 30 cal ammo cans. I use them because of cost and durability.  The local Army surplus store charges $2.50 for a 30 and $4.50 for a 50.  I wish they didn't close Dec 23rd - May 1st.

I take them apart and clean them up.


I weld a stud on it that has a hole drilled through it.  This will let me lock them and it is still water and air tight. I use the longest grade 5 1/2 inch bolt that I can find, cut it up, drill a hole through it and weld it on.  The plates are to help keep the box from openning. It is a hell of a lot cheaper then the lock kits too.  I then prime and paint them.  I don't have many calibers so color coding is working so far.


I make my own desiccant packs.  I use kitty crystals. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750938  The kitty crystals are a little expensive but I don't think I will ever need to buy more.  I fill a Federal 5.56 box with the crystals.  I glue the box back shut with wood glue.  I use a utility knife and cut slits in the box.  I like these because I can throw them in the oven at 220 for an hour or so to dry them off.  I throw a layer of foil over them to keep the direct heat off.  


Then they are ready to fill up.  I keep them in the basement.  Temps range from 65 in the winter to 75 in the summer.  I store them 5 inches off the floor.  I just built a stand out of 2x4s.

 
Here are my notes about filling them up.  

30 cal cans
9mm:  1000 rounds in ziploc bags ~ 30 pounds
.45: 600 rounds in ziploc bags ~ 34 pounds
.223: 500 rounds in ziploc bags ~ 18 pounds

50 cal cans
.45: 1200 rounds in ziploc bags ~ 60.6 pounds
5.56: 1100 rounds in ziploc bags ~ 35 pounds (rounds were on stripper and didn't pack well)

I don't have enough 9mm to test but I would guess from the other numbers you would be 2000 rounds at 61 pounds. I can lift and carry around a 60 pound ammo can.  I just don't like too.  If the wife had to help I am not sure that she could.

Finally I have a bug out case.  It has ammo for each gun. If I grab it I can grab any gun and be able to shoot it.  

It comes in at 32.4 pounds.

My goal is 1000 rounds of each in long term storage. I always have more but that is the min.  
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 10:00:57 AM by RacinRob »

Offline madcap1one

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2010, 12:06:49 PM »
Alcohol DOES break down rubber seals - it is a solvent.

When used for a wipe down (as in your windshield wipers) it assists in getting the little dust off, and because the wipers are exposed to the open air, the alcohol evaporates immediately. If you were to use it on ammo cans, and seal a small amount of it inside the can with a decent seal - it would begin eating away at the rubber eventually. I am not sure how quickly (as it depends on both the specific alcohol content, as well as the rubber composition) it would or might eat the gasket.

If your gasket needs a thorough cleaning, go ahead and use the alcohol. However, make sure to dry off the alcohol thoroughly, or leave the lid open for a few hours to have it evaporate. Then go ahead and lubricate the gasket with either the above mentioned silicone (ideal) or petroleum jelly (totally viable.)

Of late, the cans I am finding, have been coming from the sandy playpen - and as such are pretty darned dry needing only a light brush off with a paper towel wetted down with some water - no solvents necessary. And of course, because they are so dry, I went ahead and lubricated with the same bottle of petroleum jelly I have on hand to seal my pressure canner (amazing what the preps provide for multi-purposing...)

Offline Stevet0816

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Ammo Storage
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2010, 01:39:16 PM »
I have been putting all my AR ammo into stripper clips, cardboard sleeves, and into bandoliers.  The bandoliers then go into metal ammo cans.  Are there any downsides to my approach ammo storage?

Steve

Offline Ecks311

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2010, 04:24:37 PM »
i keep all my ammo in a ammo box still in the boxes they came in... i should put a moisture adsorber in there with it but i havent yet.

your approach seems just fine to me... maybe throw in a moisture adsorber too...

Offline Ken325

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2010, 06:55:45 PM »
I did the stripper clip thing also and I am very happy with this method.  I don't like stressing the springs by storing mags full.  I didn't like storing in the original boxes because of all the useless packaging taking up space.  This way I can store a lot of ammo in an ammo can, and I can fill mags quickly if I need to.  I do the stripper clips and the cardboard boxes.  I cut the label off the original box the ammo came in, and tape it to the cardboard sleeve.  Then I put 2 boxes into a pint size zip lock bag (fits perfectly).  I don't use the bandoleers.

Here is a good video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0ARH0w5xyk#

The clips and the boxes were reasonably priced at cheaper than dirt but the clips looked like they had been stored in a warehouse for a long time.  I found rat droppings in the bag with the clips and that bothered me a little.  I blew them out with compressed air and wiped them off.  Still it is like a hundred clips for $12.  Totally worth it. 

Offline cmxterra

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2010, 07:17:27 PM »
cheaper than dirt is usually as expensive as $#!t.   I will not do business with them after the price gouging they did after the election.

As for the spring fatigue/stressing... Myth.

What causes stress on a spring is constant loading and unloading.

I store my bulk ammo in .50cal cans with a small absorber in for good measure.
Other than that I keep a good number of loaded mags in the same said cans.


Offline SteveandTracyinKY

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2010, 06:30:14 AM »
I have never tried it, but have heard guys in the past talk about vacuum sealing ammo in like food saver bags. I could see the benefit especially if you had the good quality thick plastic.

My ammo is just loose in ammo cans. I did line the cans with a thick plastic that I twist at the top and then shut the lid. I use to work at gun store that shot in competition and this is how we keep our ammo. Its all sits in the bottom of a safe with moisture control.

Offline Sequanti

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2010, 08:00:17 PM »
Disclaimer: I admit my OCD.  :-\

I store all my ammo in ammo cans. Thoroughly cleaned, rubber-seal-inspected and conditioned with silicon, and in some cases repainted. All cans have desiccants of some kind. For .223, some is loose, some in boxes, and the majority on stripper clips. These are all in Ziploc bags. Those not in original boxes either have a tab off the original box with lot#s, brand, etc. or the same written on the bags with a Sharpie. All mt ammo cans are stored in the AC portion of my home. Left alone, I am pretty sure that ammo will outlast me. I would also suspect it would come through most conceivable natural disasters (except some kind of fire).

With that said, my dad had some cheap, reloaded .223 he bought at a gun show back in the mid-eighties. He also had a case of .357 bought about the same time. These were stored in a garageā€”no AC and not airtight. The .223 was in an ammo can, but it rusted through. The cardboard case containing the .357 had all but disintegrated. Individual boxes were intact but showed water damage. This was all in a subtropical (hot and humid) region prone to hurricanes.

The .357 has functioned flawlessly, and .223 has been 99%. The deficiencies in the .223 is more likely due to the fact the brass has been reloaded to many times. I had one split case and one over-sized case. No bad primers/powder.

My approach is to appease my OCD and keep Murphy at bay, but, is probably overkill.

Offline Remman

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2010, 08:23:31 PM »
I keep all my ammo in ammo cans with desicant. All mags are loaded with SHTF or practice ammo at all times.  I used to be really OCD about how organized everything was kept, but as of the past 2 years I have been training a lot.   Besides the ammo in the mags and SHTF ammo, I keep training ammo loose in ammo cans with a couple of packs of disicant. 

Offline joeinwv

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2010, 08:35:45 PM »
In original boxes on shelf in basement or loose in ammo cans.

Ammo is just like food - eat what you store, store what you eat and rotate your stock.

I have no doubt that factory loaded / quality ammo will last almost forever stored in its original box inside of a house.

Offline RacinRob

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2010, 09:18:28 PM »

OldManSchmidt

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2010, 10:03:14 PM »
I reload a lot of pistol ammo.  I do mean a lot of it.  I store it in ammo cans but also empty gallon paint cans.  I get all of the paint cans I want from construction sites where I work.  I clean them out and dry them well.  Add ammo and a desiccant pack and seal the top.  I leave the labels on (paint dribbles and all).  It looks like I have a whole bunch less ammo stored than I actually do.  As I have the occasional neighbor in my garage and I live in a city with a certain amount of "gunphobia", it works out well for me.

With the newer plastic paint cans and an appropriate sealant on the top to protect the seal itself and the metal lid, you could dern near store them in the bottom of your cistern or cache them underground if you wanted.

Offline ClarkB

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2010, 08:58:18 AM »
The idea to vacuum seal ammo is to keep it clean and dry in a bug-out-bag and through harsh conditions.  It is not appropriate for bulk storage due to the hassle and small capacity of the 'bags.

The USED paint can idea is great.  throw in a few foam peanuts to stop and rattling and few people would know that there was ammo in the can instead of paint.  That is a great ida that I might borrow to store a few rounds in disguise.

Offline MToons

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #52 on: September 28, 2010, 06:26:03 PM »
Used paint cans... Perfect suburban camo. Great idea!!  I can't wait to bring some home from work tomorrow

OldManSchmidt

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2010, 10:22:21 PM »
I actually started using them because I couldn't afford the appropriate quantity of .50 cal ammo cans.  The urban camo benefit came when a fellow reloader asked me why I had 3 gallons of paint in my reloading room.

BTW, I have tested the watertightness of paint can.  200 rounds in the can sealed with candle wax, 30 days under water.  I had a perfect run of 200 shots without a single failure to fire from a bone dry can.  I haven't tried them long term buried.  Three months buried after a coat of outdoor paint seemed to cause no harm.

Offline mike77

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2010, 11:20:59 PM »
How did you use the candle wax to seal the cans? I'm thinking maybe melted around the already sealed lid?

Offline CaptainRW

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2010, 09:51:24 AM »
If I was looking for long term storage of ammo, I'd go with a decent armory sealed tin (or 3) to tuck away. I'd not use the bandoleer, it will just hold and attract moisture. I do keep a set ready to go with my BO gear, BUT swap it out every time I go to the range for practice. IF sealing yourself, a good paint can, 5gallon white plastic pail or surplus ammo cans all work well if in good shape. Seal up with desiccant for sure. Could even do vacuum sealed with desiccant in the paint can...

OldManSchmidt

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Re: Ammo Storage
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2011, 09:57:20 PM »
How did you use the candle wax to seal the cans? I'm thinking maybe melted around the already sealed lid?

Sorry for the long time between question and answer...long story.

Yes, I capped the can and then basically dripped a whole 12" taper candle around the lid edge.  When I used the paint to seal the buried can, I used a brush and liberally applied oil based KILZ across the entire top and about 2" down the side all the way around.  I will say that it was a bear to get the lid opener into the crack to open the can when I dug it up.

One more thing, after the first time you can't shoot at the range because you forgot your lid opener, you will put a church key on your key ring.

Offline g8tors09

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »
Where is the best place to purchase "quality" ammo cans. I really don't want the junk from the locals.

Offline ncjeeper

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2011, 10:30:42 AM »
Where is the best place to purchase "quality" ammo cans. I really don't want the junk from the locals.
I bought mine off of ebay about 8 months ago. A military surplus guy out of arizona. There were grade I cans. I bought a group lot of 8 for like 50 bucks.

homeshow

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Re: Ammo long term storage
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2011, 09:44:07 AM »
empty never used paint cans from hardware store.


Where is the best place to purchase "quality" ammo cans. I really don't want the junk from the locals.