30-30 vs. 7mm mag

[TooMuchGlass]

Hey all,

Wannabe hunter here. I've never been hunting, but I plan on buying a gun soon, as I follow the rabbit hole of sustainability deeper I feel more of a need to be able to hunt if I want to eat meat my whole life. I've shot shotguns and handguns before, but never shot at anything besides clay pigeons and targets.

I'm going to be buying the gun from a relative, so here are my options. I'm planning on purchasing either a Marlin 30-30 or a Browning 7mm mag. (there is also a Browning .300 mag in the equation, but that doesn't seem like a good option for a first rifle.) Both of the guns are lever action.

I plan on hunting deer with the rifle, and using a shotgun when hunting birds, rabbits, etc. I don't know if I will be hunting across fields or in the brush.

So, what's what? Which should I purchase?

[OldManSchmidt]

They are both good rounds.  They are both more than capable of hunting most game species in the Continental US.  I wouldn't hunt bears or moose with a .30-30, but it might do the job on either.  That said, the ammo for the .30-30 is probably going to be a bit more available and a bit cheaper.  IIRC, the 7mm is a main battle rifle round where the .30-30 is an intermediate round.

To be fair, I have some experience with .30-30 while I have very little with 7mm.  I will say the Germans had fairly good luck with 7mm in WWII.  That was the chambering for the K98 Mauser.

[DrJohn]

Comparing the 30-30 to the 7mm-08 is like comparing a Chevy Nova to a Corvette.

[Jack Crabb]

The 30-30 is a fairly old round (1895); one of the first smokeless powder rounds. It shoots .30 caliber bullets typically between 150 and 170 grains at about 2200 to 2300 feet per second. Because the Marlin has a tubular magazine, one must use bullets with flat or rounded noses so that the rounds in the magazine don't detonate the primers of the rounds above it. Trajectory is more rainbow like as the bullets travel slower and have less efficient aerodynamics.

The 7mm Remington Magnum is relatively new (1962). It it nothing like the 7mm Mauser or the 7mm-08. Typically bullet weights are 140 to 175 grains, about the same as the 30-30. However, muzzle velocities are about 3200 fps, about 1000 fps more than the 30-30. If the Browning has a box magazine, you can use spitzer or pointed bullets that are more aerodynamic.

Both the Marline and the Browning should readily take a scope.

Ammo (assuming there is any after the next week or so) will be more plentiful and cheaper for the 30-30.

Inside of 250 yards or so, a deer is not going to know the difference. Smaller and more distant targets would be better served by the 7mm mag.

Recoil, muzzle blast, etc. will likely be fairly close.

[DrJohn]

Sorry, thought I read 7mm08, must have been wishful thinking!

[nelson96]

The 7mm Rem Mag is arguably one of the most versatile rifle calibers there is and is certainly in most hunters top 3 if they had to choose just one caliber for hunting a wide range of large game (goat, deer, bear, elk, moose, etc).  It has the ability to provide exceptional performance in short range, long range, and accuracy.  Depending on where you live and/or hunt, you may also find it more easy to find in stores than 30-30.  I know that where I live it certainly isn't harder to find.

[16onRockandRoll]

Good info so far. IMHO, both are awesome cartridges, but boy is it an odd pair to choose between!  They are pretty much opposites in the genre. I know you said you don't know what kind of shots you'll be taking, but for me, that makes all the difference. A decent, VERY simple rule would probably go; east of the Mississippi River, go 30-30, west of her, go 7mm. Both of them would do a decent job regardless, but if I had to pick one based on generalities, I would pick the 7mm. I believe it has the edge in versatility. Especially if you handload. I use a 300 Win Mag (a very similar cartride to the 7mm Mag, just slightly heavier bullets) for just about everything that a .22 or a shotgun won't do better.

[flippydidit]

Great discussion so far guys!  Couple points to make.

1.  You can use the newer polymer tipped bullets in a tubular magazine (Google Hornady LEVERevolution).

http://www.hornady.com/store/leverevolution

2.  I'd give the versatility/sustainability advantage to the .30-30.  If you're interested in long term use of the rifle, the .30-30 is going to have the advantage.  You can cast your own bullets for it much more economically (and much safer).

3.  If you're looking for a flat shooting, longer distance shot, the 7mm Mag is a better decision.  But for a decent brush gun that gets the job done, the .30-30 is probably fine.  It's definitely (my opinion) a better "first gun" for a new shooter.  That 7mm Mag has the potential to condition your shooting in a bad way.  You might anticipate the shot and start to flinch when that magnum goes off.  I'd recommend the .30-30 and a nice recoil pad.  Shoot all day and have fun.

On #2 the question I would ask, is how new the Marlin is.  Does it have that new-fangled micro-groove barrel?  Not that you can't cast for it, but it's going to take specialized knowledge to do it.

[TooMuchGlass]

Wow, thanks for all the help so far!
I'll check on the magazine style of the Browning and report back, as well as the rifling of the 30-30.

Even though I am east of the Mississippi, right now I'm leaning toward the 7mm. All this talk about reloading my own ammo and what not is over my head, I have no clue where to begin or how much it would cost to start up (I've heard it costs over $1000 to get all you need, but then I saw a Lee Loader for $40.) All that to say, I'm glad you all are talking about that- just because I don't know about something doesn't mean I don't need to know about it!

My reasons for leaning toward the 7mm mag-
1. It shoots flat, far, and fast.
2. The wide range of possible targets seems beneficial.
3. If I'm getting them at a pretty steep discount, the 7mm is a better value.
4. A 30-30 or 30-06 seems like it would be easier to pick up later than a 7mm.

My reasons for hesitating on the deal-
1. The ammo is more expensive around my area.
2. The 7mm mag has some rust on the outside of the barrel, which I was told will not affect performance but still gives me pause.
3. I'm not sure if I will be hunting in the woods or fields.

So, that's where I'm at. Is my line of thinking a good one or do I need to change the way I'm viewing the situation?

Also, I will probably be able to pick up a Leapold scope 4-7 variable magnification with a 50mm lens. If I can in fact get it, should that change my choice? It seems like a bigger asset on the 7mm than the 30-30, but I'm uncertain of that.

[flippydidit]

Adding a scope shouldn't change your decision either way.  Marlin's are side eject.  Now, if it was a top eject Winchester there might be something to decide on.

Reloading doesn't cost much to get into.  I got my first reloading set at a garage sale for $225 from an old timer that didn't want to reload anymore.  It came in a big wooden crate that was about the size of an unfolded futon bed.  Probably $1200 worth of stuff in it.  There are new sets for getting started that are very low cost.

Ultimately it's your decision which way you go.  Only you know how you're going to hunt/shoot or what you're going to hunt for.  Both guns are decent choices.  Pick them up and get a feel for which one you want to pack around all day (with or without a sling).

[TheRancher]

Toomuchglass, the critical part of any rifle is your ability to shoot the rifle accurately.  The .30-30 is cheaper to buy ammo for, it is easier to find ammo for and it is even cheaper to reload for.  Therefore it is cheaper to shoot it enough to become a good shot with that rifle.  Much more importantly however, is how tolerant are you of recoil and loud muzzleblast.  Almost everbody, men, women and teenagers, can easily tolerate the recoil and muzzle blast of a .30-30.  Many full grown "he-men" that I know tend to flinch from the recoil and muzzle blast of the 7 Mag.  In a relatively lightweight sporting rifle it is about the most recoil that the average guy can handle shooting enough to really get good with it.  (I know I will generate some flack from that!)   You say that you do shoot shotguns.  If you can shoot a 12 guage with 3" magnums enough to get good with it, then you should probably buy the 7 mag.  If you really don't want to shoot anything heavier that trap and skeet loads in the 12 guage, then you really should get the .30-30 and then practice enough with it to make your first shot count.

[trekker111]

They are both good rounds.  They are both more than capable of hunting most game species in the Continental US.  I wouldn't hunt bears or moose with a .30-30, but it might do the job on either.  That said, the ammo for the .30-30 is probably going to be a bit more available and a bit cheaper.  IIRC, the 7mm is a main battle rifle round where the .30-30 is an intermediate round.

To be fair, I have some experience with .30-30 while I have very little with 7mm.  I will say the Germans had fairly good luck with 7mm in WWII.  That was the chambering for the K98 Mauser.

We seem to be getting our 7mm nixed up. Op said 7mm magnum, which is very different than 7mm mauser (7x57), which again is a different critter than 7mm-08.

7mm mag is a large belted magnum cartridge which while popular is over kill for deer sized game at anything other than long range. Ammo should be fairly easy to come across, if not a bit pricey, but i wouldnt view it as a good first rifle.

My recommendation would go to the 30-30.

[TooMuchGlass]

I haven't shot shotguns in a long time, so I don't know about the recoil Rancher. Thanks for trying to relate it to me.

What about the rust on the outside of the barrel of the 7mm mag? Obviously, you all haven't seen it (I haven't either, but I trust my relative). Does this affect anything accuracy or longevity-wise or any-other-wise? Also, can I get some input on how much (ballpark) these are worth?

1. A browning lever action rifle, 7mm mag, don't know how old. Very lightly used, maybe a box of ammo has gone through it. Some rust on the barrel, don't know how much.

2. Marlin 30-30 lever action, about 6 years old, never been fired.

My game plan as of now includes buying a Browning Gold Hunter 3-1/2 inch 12 gauge made in the mid 90's with whichever rifle I choose. That is why I'm leaning toward the 7mm mag, because it seems the shotgun can do a lot of what the 30-30 can do. If that's a bad idea, someone please tell me.

[nelson96]

Although I did start deer hunting as a young teenager (ages 12-14), using a .30-30 and a .30 carbine, my first rifle (of my very own) was a 7mm Rem Mag and it remained the sole hunting rifle I used for many years to kill deer, bear, and elk.  There wasn't a year that had gone by that I wasn't killing one of the aforementioned, if not two of the three or all three.  My dad did give me the .30-30 in later years but I haven't used it to hunt with since I was a kid.

I would be curious to know how many say "choose the .30-30" actually hunt every year and are successful every year.  I know countless people that own .30-30 rifles but could count on one hand how many of those use them to hunt with year after year.  The .30-30 is a fine rifle, but not what I would use given a choice of another caliber like the 7mm.

As far as the .30-30 being cheaper to buy ammo for, really?  How much cheaper?  And just how many rounds does one need to buy to get their deer each year?  I know that even if they cost double (which they don't), the amount of rounds needed to get your deer wouldn't put you in the poor farm.  The cost of the license, tag, and fuel to go hunting is going to be far worse than ammo. . . .  Even on years I haven't done much target practicing before the season starts I only make a few shots to make sure the scope is still on, and the fourth or rare fifth shot to kill my beast. 

[nelson96]

I haven't shot shotguns in a long time, so I don't know about the recoil Rancher. Thanks for trying to relate it to me.

What about the rust on the outside of the barrel of the 7mm mag? Obviously, you all haven't seen it (I haven't either, but I trust my relative). Does this affect anything accuracy or longevity-wise or any-other-wise? Also, can I get some input on how much (ballpark) these are worth? . . .  The rust can be cleaned up and the barrel can be reblued if cosmetics are important to you.  It will definately not take away from accuracy unless the inside of the barrel is pitted.  I would predict that it would look pretty scary on the outside before I would be too concerned about what the inside looks like, but worth looking in to.

1. A browning lever action rifle, 7mm mag, don't know how old. Very lightly used, maybe a box of ammo has gone through it. Some rust on the barrel, don't know how much. . . The BLR is probably worth $500 and up used, depending on how much rust.

2. Marlin 30-30 lever action, about 6 years old, never been fired.

My game plan as of now includes buying a Browning Gold Hunter 3-1/2 inch 12 gauge made in the mid 90's with whichever rifle I choose. That is why I'm leaning toward the 7mm mag, because it seems the shotgun can do a lot of what the 30-30 can do. If that's a bad idea, someone please tell me. . . .  Sounds like a great plan

[flippydidit]

Although I did start deer hunting as a young teenager (ages 12-14), using a .30-30 and a .30 carbine, my first rifle (of my very own) was a 7mm Rem Mag and it remained the sole hunting rifle I used for many years to kill deer, bear, and elk.  There wasn't a year that had gone by that I wasn't killing one of the aforementioned, if not two of the three or all three.  My dad did give me the .30-30 in later years but I haven't used it to hunt with since I was a kid.

I would be curious to know how many say "choose the .30-30" actually hunt every year and are successful every year.  I know countless people that own .30-30 rifles but could count on one hand how many of those use them to hunt with year after year.  The .30-30 is a fine rifle, but not what I would use given a choice of another caliber like the 7mm.

As far as the .30-30 being cheaper to buy ammo for, really?  How much cheaper?  And just how many rounds does one need to buy to get their deer each year?  I know that even if they cost double (which they don't), the amount of rounds needed to get your deer wouldn't put you in the poor farm.  The cost of the license, tag, and fuel to go hunting is going to be far worse than ammo. . . .  Even on years I haven't done much target practicing before the season starts I only make a few shots to make sure the scope is still on, and the fourth or rare fifth shot to kill my beast.

Awwww, nelson96 we have to keep in mind that hunting East of the Mississippi is not the same as hunting in the PNW.  I know because I live East of the Mississippi now.  They aren't shooting from one mountain to the next (they don't even have mountains).  I'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this side of the U.S. that is killing game beyond 400 yards.  Most of it probably falls into the 150-300 yard range.

I agree with you though.  For the people hunting (actually hunting and not being a deer sniper in a tree stand), that a 7mm Mag is fine choice.  And as you also mentioned, you're only shooting it a few times a year.  This guy is new and is going to need practice.  Why pick a rifle that is going to beat the hell out of him at the range all day?  It's not like this will be his only rifle.     We both know about that addiction.   

[nelson96]

Awwww, nelson96 we have to keep in mind that hunting East of the Mississippi is not the same as hunting in the PNW.  I know because I live East of the Mississippi now.  They aren't shooting from one mountain to the next (they don't even have mountains).  I'd be hard pressed to find anyone on this side of the U.S. that is killing game beyond 400 yards.  Most of it probably falls into the 150-300 yard range.

I agree with you though.  For the people hunting (actually hunting and not being a deer sniper in a tree stand), that a 7mm Mag is fine choice.  And as you also mentioned, you're only shooting it a few times a year.  This guy is new and is going to need practice.  Why pick a rifle that is going to beat the hell out of him at the range all day?  It's not like this will be his only rifle.     We both know about that addiction.   

I suppose, but I still wouldn't want to rely on a .30-30 shooting past 100 yards.  Sure it could be done, but there's a lot better choices.

So what do they call it back east?  Can't imagine it's really called hunting.  Or that you wouldn't get bored stiff sitting anywhere while waiting for something to walk by.  I'm just harassing you folks.  But really, I couldn't sit and wait, I'd go nuts.

[ag2]

I own both calibers, but do not have as much experience or knowledge as Nelson or Flippy.

I hunt deer and elk in the Rockies with my 7mm Rem Mag and love it.  But when I take it to the grasslands for plinking, it beats the tar out of me.  I'm average size and build.

I visit relatives east of the Missouri (not Mississippi) river at least every year.  The deer in their neck of the woods.....well, let's just say I've owned dogs larger than them and there's so much brush in the Missouri deer country, I just can't see taking many long shots.

To me, it seems that in brush and trees, the 30-30 would be SAFER as the brush and trees would stop a 30-30 bullet much sooner than 7mm Rem Mag.

If it is possible, perhaps you could put a few rounds through each one before you decide.  Just a thought.

[flippydidit]

Ag2 is right about the brush and trees.

Nelson96, there are no elk over on the East side of the map.  Pretty much just deer, pigs and gators for wild game.  Some people say black bear and panthers, but I say it's a snipe hunt.  Never seen them out here.  I actually don't "hunt" anymore.  The deer aren't worth my time anyway.  They're too small.  We actually encourage them to come on our property to entertain us with scenery.

Instead of hunting I just shoot pigs now.  There's no tag or license, or any of that nonsensical bureaucracy to do what our forefathers were doing for free 100 years ago.  Just shoot as many as I want and throw them in the freezer.

[nelson96]

Flippy, that's a big reason I can't leave here.  I have to hunt to keep my sanity.  Pigs would be fun, but couldn't stand that taste of a ferral hog after about the second time I ate it.  I could live on elk and deer meat.

[TheRancher]

I live in the great SW where we have lots of open country, but I spent 8 years living in the Ozarks of Missouri.  I would take the .30-30 over my much loved .270 Win in the Ozarks.  In Wyoming or The SW I believe that you need a nice flat shooting rifle, but I would recomend a .243 over a 7 mag for a newby for deer and my .270 as minimum for elk.

Toomuchglass-  nobody has addressed the rust issue for you.  Rust on the exterior of the barrel will have no effect on accuracy, only looks.  HOWEVER, rust on the interior of the barrel can be a very bad thing and is usually called pitting by the gun nuts.  Sometimes a little pitting will not effect hunting accuracy, sometimes it will be catastrophic, it just depends on how bad it is.  If possible, since this is a family member I would try to get both guns to the range and shoot a 20 round box of shells through each on.  See how accurate they are for you and how you like the recoil and muzzle blast.  See which one puts the biggest grin on your face and take that one.

[TooMuchGlass]

Rancher- No kidding! I was born and bred in MO, and spent my college years in the Ozarks! I love it there. Unfortunately, while both of the guns are still in the Ozarks, I'm out in NC. I couldn't agree more, that if I were in the Ozarks, the 30-30 would be a no brainer. However, I don't exactly know what the hunting is like in Eastern NC (if anyone does, let me know. And yes, I plan on talking to the guys I will (possibly) be hunting with.) so I'm in a bit of a bind. I am going to try to get my hands on at least one of those guns somewhere else around here, but I haven't even had luck with that as of yet. Today the thought crossed my mind that I should for sure get the 12 gauge from the relative the next trip home and buy a used bolt-action .270 or other caliber instead.

Also, thanks for addressing the rust issue. I greatly appreciate it!

[PistolWhipped]

If we're talking Eastern NC, a .30-30 will work well, unless you hunt from a stand on the edge of a crop field.  Stalking, or woods stands will NOT have long shots, but a fast follow-up is often handy.  I assume we're talking whitetail here.  And even our biggest "predators", Black Bears, are small enough a .30-30 will handle them.  Buffalo Bore makes some heavy .30-30 loads if lethality is a concern.

I live along the I95 corridor, and there aren't a hell of a lot of places to hunt where the trees are over 200 yards apart, excepting the aforementioned agricultural fields.  I don't have the time to hunt these days, but the .30-30 bagged me a few in my younger days, and more than a few for my father.  And while an uncle got in trouble for shooting a whitetail on a cops lawn with the .30-30 he kept behind the bench of his truck, that's hardly the rifle's fault.

The 7mm is a great round.  I'm not sure I'd take the extra muzzle blast, expense, and trouble reloading a belted magnum over something like a .270, but if I were out West, it would be one of my top choices.  Here in NC though, it's advantages are wasted.  Anything over a .270 or .30-06 is really just putting lipstick on a pig.

Check the used gun racks at local gun stores.  You can find old Win 94s and Marlin 336s for a couple hundred bucks.  I've seen older Savage 110s in the $300 range as well.  It just takes patience and disposable income.

ETA: One advantage i don't think I saw mentioned was how handy the .30-30s are.  They are kinda heavy, but they tend to be compact enough to handle well in the woods out here.

[flippydidit]

It's a good thing you're in Eastern NC.  If you were by Asheville the only thing you'd be hunting is granola and tye die.

[TooMuchGlass]

PW- thanks for the skinny on the area, that really helps! I just moved out here about 6 months ago, and I haven't done much exploring. You mentioned reloading would be cheaper with the 30-30, and I'm curious about that- earlier in the thread, someone asked if the Marlin 336 30-30 was newer, as that mattered for bullet casting because of micro grooves in the barrel. Is that especially hard? Could I just buy some precast bullets until I get the hang of the reloading process?

I'm a bit reluctant to choose the 30-30 over the 7mm mag, but that's just because I feel like I'm passing on a really great rifle. Oh well, I guess there will still be useful rifles in a few years (hopefully).

[TooMuchGlass]

Flippy- hahaha! But here around Greenville, with ECU, there is plenty enough granola and tye dye for me!

[PistolWhipped]

PW- thanks for the skinny on the area, that really helps! I just moved out here about 6 months ago, and I haven't done much exploring. You mentioned reloading would be cheaper with the 30-30, and I'm curious about that- earlier in the thread, someone asked if the Marlin 336 30-30 was newer, as that mattered for bullet casting because of micro grooves in the barrel. Is that especially hard? Could I just buy some precast bullets until I get the hang of the reloading process?

I'm a bit reluctant to choose the 30-30 over the 7mm mag, but that's just because I feel like I'm passing on a really great rifle. Oh well, I guess there will still be useful rifles in a few years (hopefully).

If you're worried about casting, here's a good thread on Cast Boolits.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171582-Cast-Bullets-in-Marlin-Micro-Groove-Barrel

Or you can get a Winchester 94 if the rifling bothers you.

If you want a 7mm, don't let me talk you out of it.  If I were in the mountains or out west, I'd be running a 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag.  As it stands, I'm in the market for a .308 or .30-06 class rifle myself.  The Ruger Gunsite Scout and Savage 10PC are really high on the list.

[TooMuchGlass]

Alright,

So the decision has rolled around in my noggin for a while now, and here's where I'm at-
1. The 30-30 seems like a better "first deer rifle"
2. The 30-30 has ammo that is slightly cheaper and (I hear) easier to reload. I plan on using a Lee Loader.
3. The Browning 7mm mag has some rust on the barrel and is older, don't know if it's handmade.
4. The Marlin 30-30 is about 5 years old, never been fired. Black on the barrel to resist rust.
5. Both are lever action and I'm a lefty, so I guess I'll be eating brass either way.

I guess it just comes down to how I want to get in the business, tried and true or high roller.
At this moment I'm leaning 7mm mag, cause i could always pick up a Marlin 30-30 at a reasonable price.

I would say correct me if I'm wrong, but the last part doesn't need to be said. Just correct me.

[Jack Crabb]

2. The 30-30 has ammo that is slightly cheaper and (I hear) easier to reload. I plan on using a Lee Loader.

Your observations/conclusions are sound.

For your Lee Loader, is that a press that will full length resize the cases to original dimensions, or the Lee Loader that simply resizes the neck of the case? Lever actions don't have the mechanical advantage to chamber rounds that have not been fully resized the way a bolt action can.

[nelson96]

Not trying to make your mind either way, but if reloading is a significant factor in your decision . . .  If you have the sand to learn how to reload .30-30 it won't be a problem to load 7mm.  Neither is rocket science.