Author Topic: I'm one of those husbands...  (Read 18519 times)

Offline Smurf Hunter

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I'm one of those husbands...
« on: February 04, 2013, 11:33:05 AM »
My wife has been comfortable with owning guns for a while now.  Last year she took a women's only handgun course, where they practiced with a variety of actions and gun types - but they were all .22lr rimfire.  There's no phobia or emotional issues, in fact she's quite willing to arm herself.  Turns out I mistook enthusiasm for experience.

We've had a few friends and neighbors experience home burglaries, including a home invasion while the family was home.  I think this triggered the mama bear instinct, and made her want a CCW gun ASAP.  Technically, my wife is very informed about guns.  She understands the basic physics of the different actions, etc.  She really enjoys plinking with our 10/22, but shotguns are too big and loud (so she says).

She's shot my full frame Ruger GP100 a little, but it's a long heavy 6" barrel, and being a smaller woman she has a lot of trouble getting the sucker to point quickly.  Otherwise she likes the simplicity of revolvers.

This past weekend we're at a gun store, and we grip and dry fire about 4 different guns.  I was trying to nudge towards a compact 9mm (not pocket, but G26, XD compact, etc.), but she thought they were too heavy.  I explained the heavy mass of the slide, absorbs recoil, but she felt she wanted a pocket carry gun she could wear all day and in the home as well.  She said she was committed to practice and training, so I stepped aside a bit. Currently, there is hardly any inventory of the pistols I was suggesting, but a number of revolvers were in stock, including the Ruger LCRs.

Personally I was (and still am) very impressed with the Ruger LCR, and that's what she chose.  The trigger is excellent, on par with full frame guns.  That's what she bought.  I was proud that she filled out the 4473 form, used her conceal license, etc. while I waited in the lobby.  I let her drive the whole purchase process.

Anyhow, we're at the range after church yesterday.  I brought a handful of powder puff .38 special rounds, a box of 38+p defensive (what I suggest she carry, even though it's chambered for .357mag) and some .357mag rounds for me to try out.

She liked the powder puff cowboy rounds, but I only had a dozen or so loaded up already.  Then we moved up to the +p.  She fired a couple cylinders, then complained her upper arm was bothering her.  Personally I could not relate, as even the +p felt pleasant to me.  The .357mag did start to bother me, but I was in awe that I could shoot something @ 1400fps from this pocket revolver.  I did not offer .357mag for her to shoot.

So now her confidence is shaken, she has buyer's remorse, etc. I plan to load up a ton of the lightest plinking rounds, and hope she'll want to practice.  A cast lead cowboy bullet @ 600fps is better than a rock. 

Is there anything I can do to remedy this? 

Offline inconel710

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 12:49:41 PM »
I'm not sure what else you can do.  More practice with the cowboy loads then gradually add a cylinder of normal 38SPL loads.  Maybe skip the +P for a while?  My wife likes the heavy stuff, but she's not petite and dainty either.

d3nni5

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 01:09:53 PM »


Yea, I agree, more practice with the lighter loads and eventually work your way up from there.   Even if she never decides to shoot the full magnum round, it is always an option.....and that flexibility is very nice.

Offline soupbone

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 06:17:05 PM »
Somewhere along the line, we picked up the idea that unless we were shooting the most potent round we could load into the cylinder, we were doomed to fail in a self defense situation. Not so. Even the "anemic" .38 Long Colt was considered effective for everything except someone running jurimentado. For them, you needed a 12 ga.  For a short barrel revolver, the idea of a .357 or even a super hot .38 is borderline silly - the only thing you will get more of is flash, blast and recoil. For a hot round to be effective, you need at least a 4" barrel. For the revolver to be controllable, you need at least a medium frame.

As far as effectiveness is concerned, two of the most effective rounds for a short barrel are the .38 Special 148 gr. Target Wadcutter and the 130 gr. FMJ bulk loaded or white box stuff. The wadcutter is a soft lead flat plug driven at modest velocity, designed to punch clean holes in targets. Very accurate, low in recoil, blast and flash, and already half mushroomed, it usually expends all of its energy in the target. At the other extreme is the Full Metal Jacket .38 Spec - a modern replica of WWII issue ammo. This is for the folks who believe in penetration to punch a hole in something vital.

Even though the ballistic table numbers seem modest, remember that for most of the 19th century, the energy of most common black powder revolvers (cap-and-ball or cartridge) approached moderate .38 Special loadings. The folks back then didn't consider themselves underarmed. Your wife will not be underarmed either, but she will be able to master the revolver in an expedient manner. .357 Magnum, in my opinion, is useful only if the revolver is paired with a pistol chambered carbine in a wilderness situation. If you run out of wadcutters.....

soupbone

Offline LibertyBelle

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 10:42:17 PM »
I started out with an little ivory handled .22 short revolver. While I've "graduated" to bigger calibers, that little jewel is still my favorite.  ;)

But don't discount the .22 LR.  I used to work in ER and the docs tell you straight up that a .22 gunshot wound victim is one of the worst to come in because a .22 will ricochet around inside the body, traveling alongside bones, and cause numerous small internal wounds that are hard to find.  And as such, surgery can take hours...and in a great many cases, the victim bleeds out and dies.

Offline trekker111

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 06:35:38 AM »
Why did you skip from cowboy action loads to +p? Standard 38 special are decent self defense rounds. Pick a good jacketed hp. Judging by your first post, it sounds like you reload. You can slowly work her up to +p.

Or, make sure the gun is sighted for the +p load that will be used for defense, then she can practice with standard. When your target bleeds, you don't feel recoil. Some times you don't hear the gun go off.

Offline atherts

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 07:53:54 AM »
Step down to the 22. It is better than nothing.
My wife wanted a gun and was sure she wanted the LCR in 38.
I said we had to shoot one before we'd buy it. I found a range that had one and we went to try it out.
She hated it, much the same response as your wife.
I went up front and asked if they had the LCR in 22. They did and we tried it out and she loved it.
I bought one for her for her birthday. She loves telling people she got a gun for her birthday.

She still likes it and is wavering between carrying it or the LCP strictly for size reasons.
She didn't like the LCP either at first, but is warming to it due to size.

Just relax and let her get try some options.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 11:01:13 AM »
For a hot round to be effective, you need at least a 4" barrel. For the revolver to be controllable, you need at least a medium frame.


While I fully agree the shootability of "hot" loads in a snubby is grounds to dismiss their use, I must call "myth busted" as for the 4" barrel being required to reach magnum velocities.  I recently read about a chronograph test where they tested .38spl+ and .357mag defensive rounds through a 1-7/8" J frame.

The +p was just over 900fps
The .357mag was just over 1200fps

Remember: 
Code: [Select]
Energy = Mass * Velocity^2
So when you multiply that out using a given projecticle, the magnum is roughly twice the energy out of the same snubby revolver.

Code: [Select]
125gr bullet * (900^2) / 125gr bullet * (1200^2)
= 810,000/1,440,000
.38spl+p = 56% of .357mag

That all said, I fully agree that if you can't hit your target with a hot load, all of this is a waste of time and not practical.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 11:05:01 AM »
Step down to the 22. It is better than nothing.
My wife wanted a gun and was sure she wanted the LCR in 38.
I said we had to shoot one before we'd buy it. I found a range that had one and we went to try it out.
She hated it, much the same response as your wife.
I went up front and asked if they had the LCR in 22. They did and we tried it out and she loved it.
I bought one for her for her birthday. She loves telling people she got a gun for her birthday.

She still likes it and is wavering between carrying it or the LCP strictly for size reasons.
She didn't like the LCP either at first, but is warming to it due to size.

Just relax and let her get try some options.

The upside is I really am enjoying the LCR.  I may try carrying it for a while.  I think the trigger is excellent, and I can squeeze of +p rounds all day (I did about 80 that day).

I reload .38 and .357 anyway, and this will be enjoyable at the range.  I've got an 8" steel target gong I shoot with my 6" GP100 from 60 yards.  Imagine the bragging rights if I can learn to hit the same with the LCR...

Thanks for all the replies and encouragement. 

Offline CBP

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 01:32:32 PM »
Thinking about this thread while driving to and from picking up my new carry gun.... ;D

I took a woman to the range and let her pick from the case.  It was a Ruger LCP in 380.  I tried to steer that because I knew what was coming.  But it was cute and perfect and she shot it exactly twice.  Very recoil and noise sensitive.  Hated it. 

Went up to a Bersa which is a bit larger.  Then it went from I hate this ....to....I think I can do this.  Maybe if you find her just a tad bit more gun.  If cash doesn't allow, I'd rather have her work with your 6" barrel revolver and learn some muscle control -- lets not pinch about how well we aim right now.


*****

Being female, I don't understand this at all.  I did not learn to shoot until I was almost 40.  I started out with a 9mm large frame all metal gun.  Yeh, it was heavy and I got better and got over it.  I'm a shotgunner and those guns are 7-8 pounds.  And I got better.  Most women's purses weigh as much as a handgun, but yet a handgun is too heavy.  In an emergency, they would throw their 40 pound kid over their shoulder and run like h*ll.  But a real shotgun or rifle is just too much.

As an aside, when I was initially shopping for guns, a counter guy said, "Here honey, this is just what you need!"  A Lady Smith titanium in 357.    Let's sell a new shooter a tiny canon.   Geez.  I didn't buy it, but when I went to my CCW class, a woman had one and simply could not shoot it.  The instructor gave her his  -- I think a 1911 Kimber in 45  -- and she performed flawlessly.






Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 01:54:08 PM »
Thinking about this thread while driving to and from picking up my new carry gun.... ;D

I took a woman to the range and let her pick from the case.  It was a Ruger LCP in 380.  I tried to steer that because I knew what was coming.  But it was cute and perfect and she shot it exactly twice.  Very recoil and noise sensitive.  Hated it. 

Went up to a Bersa which is a bit larger.  Then it went from I hate this ....to....I think I can do this.  Maybe if you find her just a tad bit more gun.  If cash doesn't allow, I'd rather have her work with your 6" barrel revolver and learn some muscle control -- lets not pinch about how well we aim right now.


*****

Being female, I don't understand this at all.  I did not learn to shoot until I was almost 40.  I started out with a 9mm large frame all metal gun.  Yeh, it was heavy and I got better and got over it.  I'm a shotgunner and those guns are 7-8 pounds.  And I got better.  Most women's purses weigh as much as a handgun, but yet a handgun is too heavy.  In an emergency, they would throw their 40 pound kid over their shoulder and run like h*ll.  But a real shotgun or rifle is just too much.

As an aside, when I was initially shopping for guns, a counter guy said, "Here honey, this is just what you need!"  A Lady Smith titanium in 357.    Let's sell a new shooter a tiny canon.   Geez.  I didn't buy it, but when I went to my CCW class, a woman had one and simply could not shoot it.  The instructor gave her his  -- I think a 1911 Kimber in 45  -- and she performed flawlessly.

Thanks for the insightful reply. 

At the shop we were at, she was attracted to a Ruger LC9.  It's slightly bigger than "pocket", and small than a "compact" duty gun.  The slide release did not work.  The clerk said I had to rack the slide in order to close it - which if true by design, somewhat defeats the fast reload capability of a magazine fed gun.  Personally I hated the grip, and the laser it was fitted with had an ambi push-thru switch by the muzzle.  Twice I watch my wife turn it on/off and both times her hand covered the muzzle to do it <- ergo FAIL

As an aside regarding the .380 - the left brained engineer in me cannot reconcile how a 7 shot pocket pistol in that cartridge is functionally superior to a 5 shot snubby .38spl revolver, provided a short range defensive use case.   If you limp wrist those pocket autos, they don't always cycle.  That's my experience at least.

If we cannot remedy the LCR by practicing with mellow cast lead cowboy loads, I plan to consider the most reliable semi-auto .22lr she can shoot well.  As they say, it beats a rock.

Offline Twibble

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 03:44:22 PM »
Thinking about this thread while driving to and from picking up my new carry gun.... ;D

I took a woman to the range and let her pick from the case.  It was a Ruger LCP in 380.  I tried to steer that because I knew what was coming.  But it was cute and perfect and she shot it exactly twice.  Very recoil and noise sensitive.  Hated it. 

Went up to a Bersa which is a bit larger.  Then it went from I hate this ....to....I think I can do this.  Maybe if you find her just a tad bit more gun.  If cash doesn't allow, I'd rather have her work with your 6" barrel revolver and learn some muscle control -- lets not pinch about how well we aim right now.

I carry a Ruger LCP .380, but would much rather carry the Bersa .380 if the way I dressed allowed (new clothes are not in the budget right now).  I'm definitely more accurate with the Bersa.

I've also noticed that the trigger pull on the Ruger messes with me.  It doesn't shoot until I've pulled the trigger much further than I think I should have, so it throws off my anticipation, even with as much as I shoot it.

MightyRunt

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 01:28:39 PM »
On my 2 carry guns, I practice with light or standard loads and carry with hot loads. As someone else said, in a life threatening situation, I want all the pow I can get and I doubt I'd hear the noise or feel the recoil. I'd much rather have these old arthritic hands ache for a few days than suffer the alternative if I was under gunned. The point of concealed carry is effective self defense.

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 02:16:43 PM »
I am going to guess that your wife needs to work on improving her hand and arm strength. Doing this would help reduce the perceived recoil she experiences.

If you and she are not careful this most recent event might result in building in a flinch. For this reason, as well as rebuilding her confidence, I do suggest going back to the .22LR rounds and the light .38 rounds. IMO, there is no reason to go to the +Ps until she is consistently accurate and thereby proficient with her firearm. More damage than good may be done to her technique if rushed again into a hot load she is not capable of shooting accurately.

Just my $0.02.

Offline Herbalpagan

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 02:23:13 PM »
I have to agree with your wife...I love my .22, I feel totally comfortable with it. Husband wanted me to have something more powerful and we got the nicest .38.  I felt it fit my hands and was comfortable.  4 shots after we got it home, my hand was numb for 3 days. Some ladies like it, some don't...I did feel a knock to my confidence afterwards, especially seeing my daughter using it and liking it with no problem!
There is nothing wrong with a .22 and if she feels good using her smaller gun, good for her! A power gun is not for everyone, with time, that might change, but let her just enjoy the gun she's comfortable with. jmo

Offline busymomx3

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2013, 10:56:24 PM »
I have shot years ago and just recently went shooting again.  As a lady who shy's away from recoile I love my 22.  Although I am getting better with my 9mm.  I think that building confidence is the best way to go.  Or for me at least.  I was more willing to try a new higher caliber when I was feeling more confident about my ability.  If she liked the 22 then I vote get that.  I didn't read all the responses so someone might have already said that.  I will say I don't care for the lighter guns and like to feel something solid.  Hopefully she will find what she likes and you can both enjoy shooting :).

Offline MissAnthrope Plant Nerd

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2013, 03:30:26 PM »
I'm a 50+ woman who prefers to carry my large frame 9mm or Judge around the house and property.  About a decade ago I used to consider the 9mms too large, (I prefered my .38+P and .357) but now I love them.  They both carry well in holsters that I wear on my back waist when outside.  I now love the feel of that 9mm handle that holds 15 rounds.  I also love the idea of my 'hand held shotgun' with the Judge.
My daughters carry .38s - when we go outside and shoot stuff, they use the less powerful rounds - both because I have plenty of them and because I don't want to waste what +Ps I have.  After shooting, when the gun goes back on 'standby', we load them with +Ps.  Hopefully, if they need to use them, the adrenalin will be flowing and they won't notice that they are shooting a more powerful round.
A woman should start out with what she feels comfortable with and then as she gains experience and feels comfortable with a smaller gun, hopefully she will be interested in stepping up in size and power.  It happened for me.

Offline LEO_MAC

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2013, 07:56:58 PM »
I took my wife to the range for the first time after shooting for a long time being military. We rented a few pistols from the range, a small frame .38 revolver, a 9mm XD model, and had the .40 cal Sig that i carried as well as my 12ga home defense shotgun. She shot the .38 and absolutely HATED it! The 9mm went about the same way. I was about to pack up and go home when she asked if she could shoot "my" gun just for fun. She went through a magazine with my Sig P250 .40 and couldn't put it down. She shot about 100 rounds through it and LOVED it. She picked up the shotgun and fired the first round and giggled, and then shot through another box of birdshot. We also have a Ruger 10/22 that she loves to shoot due to next to nothing recoil. I really had to ease my wife into the shooting realm and i must say that all the frustration and damn near disappointment was worth it as she found a caliber and handgun frame she was happy with and is now an avid shooter and is constantly asking me when were going to range again. Take your time with her and  you will not be disappointed.

Offline Here Again

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 01:24:13 PM »
I love my SR9c.  I think the smaller guns, while lighter, are just too small for "new" shooters.  I picked up many while my hubby was getting me comfortable with the idea of pistols (I was raised that pistols were only owned by bad people - yeah, I'm over that now ;) ) and even though they were light and fit my smaller hands I was sure I wouldn't like them.  First time I touched the SR9 I looked him in the eye and said this is the one.  He still made me touch and feel a bunch of others, but even though others were lighter, less intimidating, etc I knew they couldn't be my "friend", they were too small.

 My daughter is 11 (yesterday) and doesn't enjoy shooting that much, but if we tell her she can shoot the SR45 - she's in the car!  She's shot my and hubby's SR9c's (we both have one) and she doesn't care for them too much.  She'll pink on the SR22 a bit - again mostly because we "make" her.  She's a small kid and can't hold up an 10/22 or any of our shotguns or rifles without some sort of support.....but she loves that 45!  (honestly the SR45 has no more kick the the SR9...if it wasn't so bulky, I'd be totally comfortable with it as a carry gun).  Find "bigger" guns for her to shoot...she might be surprised.

Offline eronious

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 01:49:13 PM »
I don't think this has as much do do with the round or load as confidence and experience. 

I think this was maybe 5 years ago.  I had much the same problem as your wife did with my first carry piece.  I did a whole bunch of research (because I'm a nerd) and ended up with a S&W 340 M&P.  It was a total gem, said all the reviews.  Problem is, I was a brand new shooter and was scared to death.  My grip was weak.  My stance was sloppy.  I jumped every time I pulled the trigger.  I HATED that gun!  I'd put 3 rounds down range and my hand hurt so badly, I'd give up.  I also hated his Glock because it kept tearing up my soft little hands.  So I gave the 340 to my husband who LOVED it.  I then went and got a little .22 and went to the range a lot.  I mean a lot.  I got bored with it and wasn't super psyched about the reaction I was getting from reactive targets.  So I got a slightly heavier .357 and took it to the range A LOT.  My husband bought me the lightest load .38 he could find to practice with and I worked my way up.  Now when I try out that old M&P, I love it too. We also now run with matching Glocks.  It just took a lot of practice and gaining confidence and encouragement from my handsome hubby.

Maybe get her into a shooting class because sometimes learning from the spouse is really hard to do.

PS.  If she hates shotguns, try the Benelli.  I know they're crazy spendy, but the recoil handling is UH-MAZING!  :)

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 02:09:11 PM »
You revived an old thread. 

Back before Christmas I picked up an SR-22 (ruger clone of Walther P22).  I got a screaming Black Friday deal.
The thing eats up every brand of .22lr I've tried (can't be picky these days), and best of all my wife loves it.

We were hitting a 10" steel gong 50 yards away with careful single action shots. 
My hope is this will be a "fun" recreational and training gun on which confidence can build.

I second your .357 suggestion.  I've got a 6" GP100 that probably weighs 4lbs.  I handload .38spl powder puff loads with 2grains of IMR TrailBoss.  Less recoil than the SR-22, but the revolver is big and heavy to aim.


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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 02:11:44 PM »
The new Glock 42 (.380) is getting good reviews as a 'pocket pistol' for those who want a low profile firearms with negligible recoil.  This may be an option.

Offline Carl

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2014, 11:09:52 AM »
Recoil happens over such a brief time that her arms ride with it,her wrist would hurt from recoil...not her arm...I suggest she does some work to strengthen her arms a bit...specifically holding a few pounds while sighting down her UNLOADED FINGER. Let her use light loads for practice and +P for serious carry (+P is more than enough for most social situations)

Offline PorcupineKate

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 11:03:17 AM »
Recoil happens over such a brief time that her arms ride with it,her wrist would hurt from recoil...not her arm...I suggest she does some work to strengthen her arms a bit...specifically holding a few pounds while sighting down her UNLOADED FINGER. Let her use light loads for practice and +P for serious carry (+P is more than enough for most social situations)

I teach a lot of women to shoot and have for years.  There are several things that contribute to recoil pain most women feel. Strength is part of it but not the biggest factors as a new shooter.   Here is a list of things that make a huge difference to a new woman shooter. 

Make sure the gun fits. This is insane important.  Most men know how uncomfortable it is to shoot a tiny Keltec but most guys have no idea what it is like to shoot a gun with too big of a frame.  A small narrow hand can not properly hold and shoot a frame that is too large.  If the frame is too large the gun will always hurt not matter how experienced the shooter is. If it is slightly too large they will hold it incorrectly and not be able to get a firm grip or proper trigger pull.   Most firearms are designed for a 5'11" male shooter not a 5'4" narrow handed woman.   Having wider palms makes it easier to hold a full sized frame. 

You also need to make sure the shooter is holding the gun high up on the back strap.  This allows the shooter to hold their wrists straighter and let the elbows absorb more of the recoil.  Elbows should not be locked.  Many women can hyper extend their joints when we lock them.  If a hyper extended elbow is locked it can't absorb a bunch of the recoil and the arms go up at the shoulder.  I tell people to hold their elbows pointed out(not down), hold their arms in A frame shape, keep the wrists ridged, and bring the gun up to their eye. This way the elbows bend with the recoil.

This helps a lot when combined with making sure the shooter is in a proper stance.   Most American women stand with their weight on one leg, knees locked and hips forward. Most are oblivious that they stand this way and telling them they need to lean into the shot is not enough instruction. They will try and shoot like this and wonder why their arms rise and their back hurts when they take a shot.  When you stand like this you lower back is absorbing the recoil and can make for a painful day of shooting.  I always remind shooters to keep their feet shoulder with apart, unlock their knees, lean forward at the hip with shoulders forward. (The real trick is finding a polite way to tell a woman to stick her but out)

This solves most new shooter problems. 

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2014, 11:22:32 AM »
You know, reviving this nearly 2 year old thread is making me feel bad.  It's like reliving the trauma of disappointing my wife  ;D

I've learned a lot since the original post.  We're at a point now where she can shoot all our guns safely with basic accuracy.  There are some frame/grip sizes she prefers for sure, but we're past a lot of the original hurdles from a couple years back. 

Offline Carl

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 12:03:14 PM »
You know, reviving this nearly 2 year old thread is making me feel bad.  It's like reliving the trauma of disappointing my wife  ;D

I've learned a lot since the original post.  We're at a point now where she can shoot all our guns safely with basic accuracy.  There are some frame/grip sizes she prefers for sure, but we're past a lot of the original hurdles from a couple years back.

And yet she let you live??

Offline CandyGram4Mongo

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2016, 02:33:31 PM »
.357 shortie is unpleasant for me and remains my wife's least favorite gun.  She fell in love w/a Browning Buckmark .22 and a S&W 686 .22 and now has the most fun with a full-frame "cowboy .45"
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/9496992
She is confident and proficient with it, and says the biggest factor is that it feels right - she can grip it high, it feels balanced, and she can shoot it all day long.

For rifles, we started with an M&P .22 and it didn't take long to load up the AR.  AK was the anti-fun so we stick to the black rifles and have fun.

Offline CPT Morgan

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2016, 03:20:37 PM »
I'm one of those husband's....  That has a wife who always asks "do we have enough ammo" and "should we buy another AR-15"?

Offline Odin's Son

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2017, 04:10:43 PM »


So now her confidence is shaken, she has buyer's remorse, etc. I plan to load up a ton of the lightest plinking rounds, and hope she'll want to practice.  A cast lead cowboy bullet @ 600fps is better than a rock. 

Is there anything I can do to remedy this? 

     I would like to offer another approach to helping with the recoil and confidence.  First let me say that I agree with a lot of the other folks and their ideas.  I'm in no way saying to only try mine and to disregard theirs.  Also, i'm going to pose this question to my wife and get her ideas for you. 

     So for my alternate approach I would like to suggest some strength and agility training.  I firmly believe this will not only help with her handling the recoil but also be a huge boost to her confidence.  I'm not saying y'all are in bad shape or have weak muscles, just that there's a chance that she could see some positive results from some more physical training.  There are several little things you can start with to improve grip strength and forearm strength that don't require going to the gym or even really getting sweaty.  A quick search on Amazon will bring up several of the more popular ones including the handle with a spring in the middle, a ball (like the stress squezzy things) and more complicated ones that attach to each finger.  These are all good for grip and hand strength.  There are also various ones made for your forearm. 

     Like I said before, don't just pick one idea.  Try a bunch either one at a time or some combination of them.  I hope this helps and remember you have to be your partner's biggest supporter, never their judge. 

Offline machinisttx

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Re: I'm one of those husbands...
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 04:04:54 PM »
I teach a lot of women to shoot and have for years.  There are several things that contribute to recoil pain most women feel. Strength is part of it but not the biggest factors as a new shooter.   Here is a list of things that make a huge difference to a new woman shooter. 

Make sure the gun fits. This is insane important.  Most men know how uncomfortable it is to shoot a tiny Keltec but most guys have no idea what it is like to shoot a gun with too big of a frame.  A small narrow hand can not properly hold and shoot a frame that is too large.  If the frame is too large the gun will always hurt not matter how experienced the shooter is. If it is slightly too large they will hold it incorrectly and not be able to get a firm grip or proper trigger pull.   Most firearms are designed for a 5'11" male shooter not a 5'4" narrow handed woman.   Having wider palms makes it easier to hold a full sized frame. 

You also need to make sure the shooter is holding the gun high up on the back strap.  This allows the shooter to hold their wrists straighter and let the elbows absorb more of the recoil.  Elbows should not be locked.  Many women can hyper extend their joints when we lock them.  If a hyper extended elbow is locked it can't absorb a bunch of the recoil and the arms go up at the shoulder.  I tell people to hold their elbows pointed out(not down), hold their arms in A frame shape, keep the wrists ridged, and bring the gun up to their eye. This way the elbows bend with the recoil.

This helps a lot when combined with making sure the shooter is in a proper stance.   Most American women stand with their weight on one leg, knees locked and hips forward. Most are oblivious that they stand this way and telling them they need to lean into the shot is not enough instruction. They will try and shoot like this and wonder why their arms rise and their back hurts when they take a shot.  When you stand like this you lower back is absorbing the recoil and can make for a painful day of shooting.  I always remind shooters to keep their feet shoulder with apart, unlock their knees, lean forward at the hip with shoulders forward. (The real trick is finding a polite way to tell a woman to stick her but out)

This solves most new shooter problems.

This needs to be repeated, although I disagree with one small point.

Gun fitment to the shooter is, and always will be the most important factor. What I disagree with regards hand size. Women's hands tend to be much slimmer, with less "meat" in the palm, and on average I think women have slightly longer fingers than men. In my case, I have a large meaty palm and short stubby fingers. My wife is a full foot shorter than I am, and can wrap her hand farther around around the grips of most guns than I can, even though palm to palm her hand is slightly smaller than mine. It doesn't make sense to me, but I've observed it to be the case with several other women, and what's above is the only explanation I have for it.

My wife does not like small revolvers, even with really light loads. I can shoot the heaviest loads possible through the same guns(mine are all steel) without discomfort, but even the lightest loads are unpleasant for her. I think this is mostly because I have significantly more grip strength, and due to the extra "meat" in my palm. I squeeze the gun harder, so it doesn't move as much, and there is a little more cushion to absorb recoil. On the other hand, I can put the exact same load in an identical revolver(same model, same grips) with a longer(4" or 6") barrel, and she will happily shoot it better than I can until we run out of ammo. *shrug* We both have Keltec P3AT's, and she also has a P11. The checkering on the P11's grip abraded her hand, so I put a rubber sleeve on it for her. There are only two guns I've had problems with due to small size...the NAA mini revolvers and the less expensive two shot derringers. The former is because I can only get 1.5 fingers on the grip frame, and the latter is because the web between my thumb and index finger bears against the back of the hammer when cocked, making the horrendous trigger even worse.



I would have endeavored to steer your wife(and any other woman without significant firearms experience) away from an ultralight pocket revolver, or any pocket sized revolver for that matter, at least until she was more acclimated to recoil and muzzle blast with a slightly larger and heavier gun. The difference in those things between a 6" barreled 2.5ish pound revolver and a 2" barreled sub 1 pound revolver is substantial. What I would suggest is that she return to the gun store and buy another LCR in .22LR, then practice extensively with it. The fundamentals and feel of the gun will be the same, so when she fires a few practice shots out of the .357 version(light .38 loads only at first) on every range trip, there isn't any difference except noise and a little more recoil. Mix in more practice with the larger caliber gun over time and eventually she won't have any trouble at all with it.

I'm not very familiar with the LCR, but if it's possible, you might also try changing the size/shape of the grips. Sometimes even a subtle difference there translates to a substantially different "feel" or perception of the gun.

Edit: I almost forgot that if you're loading lead bullets for anything other than practice, you should lean more toward a SWC or other blunt nosed design. Round nosed bullets are easier to stuff in the cylinder with a speedloader, but are notoriously poor stoppers.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 04:12:44 PM by machinisttx »