How much silver is enough?

[BlueHound]

There are so many things we could save money for...Six to twelve months worth of living expenses, to buy a house or a BOL, to pay off our mortgage, to invest in a 401k, stocks, gold, silver, etc, etc. 

After considering all of that, how much silver do you realistically want to save?

Before today, I would have given a non-answer, such as "As much as I can."  So I decided to make a specific goal.

Beginning August 1st, 2013, or once silver hits $15/oz, whichever comes first, I will buy 25-50 ounces every two to four weeks until I have 2000 ounces.  Then I'll start buying gold.

Hmmmm, that creates another problem.  Where will I store it?  Will a floor safe hold that much?  And how much will that cost?  Time to do some research.

[CharlesH]

I'm doing a combination of silver and gold right now, so I converted my total into a rough silver equivalent and used that in the poll.
 
My goal is to have enough PM at current prices to pay five years of property tax.  I have a house and just under 50 acre farm.  That would not solve all my problems in a real crisis, but assuming the government didn't completely collapse, property taxes are the one thing I worry about the most being unable to pay in high inflation.

[Erigorn]

You've probably heard jack many times say 5-10% of your assets as a partial protection against inflation. He has had a guest on who it sounds like all money savings is on silver.
I completely see your point/concerns about so many other areas to prepare in.

My opinion/advice is to start out in prepping is ignore silver until many of the basics like food water shelter etc are covered for at least a 1-2 weeks. Then gradually build to that 5-10% as you build preps to the 3-6 month range. After that I'd start stacking silver at a higher rate. I mean keep building toward 1 year of preps but adding silver at an increased rate.

I am not inclined to have 25% or so of assets in silver. Just thinking about it and you can't really get close to 100% since that would require that you have 0 equity in you house or car or savings. Even 50% seems very high. Especially if you have a paid off house.

Eventually 5000 ounces would be great but it's a long ways off since there is so much else out there.

Vacation/BOL property is on our list but not ahead of other stuff. 6 months of living I have slated before going above 5%. Paying off my mortgage is low as rates are so low. Below inflation so I figure my money is better invested in food and other preps, at least for now. I'll push toward the 25% goal before really tackling the mortgage. A BOL will come before paying off mortgage. Just ensuring that I have the savings to backup the payments.

Curious to see what others say.

[BlueHound]

My opinion/advice is to start out in prepping is ignore silver until many of the basics like food water shelter etc are covered for at least a 1-2 weeks. Then gradually build to that 5-10% as you build preps to the 3-6 month range. After that I'd start stacking silver at a higher rate. I mean keep building toward 1 year of preps but adding silver at an increased rate.

We think alike.  We have about 6 months of living expenses saved, 6 months of food stored, 110 gallons of water in two 55-gallon drums with a large lake nearby and water filters for resupply, adequate shelter, generator, AR and Glocks and ammo, with lots of other supplies and redundancy, but I've never bought silver or gold.  It's time to kick that into high gear since I'm a little behind in that prep.  I should have done as you suggested and invested in silver and gold a little at a time while I was preparing in other ways.  Better late than never I suppose.

[BlueHound]

My goal is to have enough PM at current prices to pay five years of property tax.  I have a house and just under 50 acre farm.  That would not solve all my problems in a real crisis, but assuming the government didn't completely collapse, property taxes are the one thing I worry about the most being unable to pay in high inflation.

Charles,

When I chose a goal of 2000 oz of silver, that was just an arbitrary number so I had something to shoot for.  I like how you chose a goal to solve a specific concern.  Have you considered having some silver for barter as well?  Or is that already figured into your number?

[Erigorn]

Hey better late than never and depending on when you got your other preps and with the price or silver now you may have timed things very well (even if it was lucky) I purchased a lot of my silver at 30 or more. With prices now I can't help to keep buying. I need some more firearms but still waiting for prices to get all or most of the way back down. So buying silver for now.

[CharlesH]

  Have you considered having some silver for barter as well?  Or is that already figured into your number?

The possibility of bartering with silver is not factored in to my numbers yet.  However, I am very intrigued with the idea of using silver as an alternate means of exchange to the current currency.  Because of our farm we already do some bartering.  For us beef, eggs, chicken, honey, hay, and vegetables have been what we used the most.
 
If I found a local group using silver I'd definitely want to learn more and possibly get involved.  At that point I'd probably start converting my current barter items to silver through traditional sales.

[BlueHound]

The possibility of bartering with silver is not factored in to my numbers yet.  However, I am very intrigued with the idea of using silver as an alternate means of exchange to the current currency.  Because of our farm we already do some bartering.  For us beef, eggs, chicken, honey, hay, and vegetables have been what we used the most.
 
If I found a local group using silver I'd definitely want to learn more and possibly get involved.  At that point I'd probably start converting my current barter items to silver through traditional sales.

We have 10 hens that are laying right now, but I don't know of anyone who would be willing to barter for eggs.  We just give eggs away to our neighbors now.  And when one of our chicks turn out to be a rooster, we just give them to a friend.  I'll start asking people if they'd be willing to barter instead of giving everything away.  Might as well start getting some practice.

[CharlesH]

Might as well start getting some practice.

Eggs are a tough barter and we sell more than barter ($2/dozen).  Using silver in the barter process would be great if I could find those people willing to barter and use silver in the transaction.  Maybe I'll get lucky.

[Prodigy]

Definitely agreed with the approach to get 5-10% of your savings/equity in precious metals, and not really setting a certain hard number of ounces because your saved wealth will ebb and flow (hopefully growing, though!).  If I make a 7 figure salary I'm going to have a vastly different PM goal than most other people.

Just remember that real wealth is not measured in dollars, or income, or ounces of silver - true wealth is how long you can keep up a relatively similar lifestyle if all of your income suddenly stopped.  It should be measured in weeks/months/years, not in hard dollar numbers.

[MTUCache]

I voted for the second option (100-500 ounces), which I guess appears to be at the lower end of the scale that the OP would consider.

I could definitely see the appeal in having much more than this in some form of savings, and I'll agree that if I were to come into a large sum of money I would most definitely want more than 100-500 ounces, but I don't see myself ever making PMs this big a part of my savings. Until I've got a paid off house and plenty of other things prepped beyond what I currently have, this would take me WELL beyond the 5-10% that I intend.

As for storage of tens of thousands of dollars worth of PMs... I would hesitate to even give advice on that, beyond saying that it should DEFINITELY be contained in several secure locations. Who needs to know about it (and how) in the event of something happening to you is yet another concern. You'd hate to leave a house to your family in the distant future and have them end up selling it with an unopened floor safe in the basement with your life savings. 

[BlueHound]

I voted for the second option (100-500 ounces), which I guess appears to be at the lower end of the scale that the OP would consider.

I could definitely see the appeal in having much more than this in some form of savings, and I'll agree that if I were to come into a large sum of money I would most definitely want more than 100-500 ounces, but I don't see myself ever making PMs this big a part of my savings. Until I've got a paid off house and plenty of other things prepped beyond what I currently have, this would take me WELL beyond the 5-10% that I intend.

As for storage of tens of thousands of dollars worth of PMs... I would hesitate to even give advice on that, beyond saying that it should DEFINITELY be contained in several secure locations. Who needs to know about it (and how) in the event of something happening to you is yet another concern. You'd hate to leave a house to your family in the distant future and have them end up selling it with an unopened floor safe in the basement with your life savings. 

Wouldn't that be terrible?  I agree.  You've got to let someone know, in person or in writing, that you have a floor safe or safe deposit box.

Since losing a spouse and parent is such a traumatic event, I have been writing a letter to my wife and children that they can read after I die.  Hopefully they won't have to read it for many decades, but one never knows.  Among other things, this letter includes information that they will need to get their lives in order, such as steps that they will need to take to collect life insurance, a list of bank accounts and account numbers, passwords to online accounts, the combination to the gun safe, etc.  My wife knows all of this now, but she could easily forget something during a stressful time.  And there are many things that my children do not know, that they should know to help their mother, and to reduce the chances of them selling everything without knowing about hidden/stored valuables.  You've reminded me that I need to update the letter to include info about PMs and floor safes as soon as I buy them.  Thanks 

[BlueHound]

Definitely agreed with the approach to get 5-10% of your savings/equity in precious metals, and not really setting a certain hard number of ounces because your saved wealth will ebb and flow (hopefully growing, though!).  If I make a 7 figure salary I'm going to have a vastly different PM goal than most other people.

Just remember that real wealth is not measured in dollars, or income, or ounces of silver - true wealth is how long you can keep up a relatively similar lifestyle if all of your income suddenly stopped.  It should be measured in weeks/months/years, not in hard dollar numbers.

I agree.  Very good point!  It's a shame that more people don't think that way, or that I didn't when I was younger.  This way of thinking is key to staying out of debt and building wealth. 

[JLMissouri]

I would only heavily invest in silver if everything else was already in place. I bought a lot of silver when everything I had was paid for and needed a place to put some money. I have since bought more property which is a much better investment and only buy silver occasionally. I would rather buy more cattle, land, rental property or equipment than silver as they can increase your wealth at a much faster rate and they are a safer bet.

[ncjeeper]

I dont have a goal. I just buy here and there. With prices way down Im buying more right now.

[BlueHound]

I would only heavily invest in silver if everything else was already in place. I bought a lot of silver when everything I had was paid for and needed a place to put some money. I have since bought more property which is a much better investment and only buy silver occasionally. I would rather buy more cattle, land, rental property or equipment than silver as they can increase your wealth at a much faster rate and they are a safer bet.

I love your website, and this quote from your site, "Cattle are one measure of real wealth, even the bible mentions cattle when talking of wealthy people. Unlike gold and silver cattle are an investment that literally grows, and unlike gold or silver it is an investment that can be quite tasty. A herd of cattle in your field is every bit as valuable as a stocked pantry, maybe more so."

One of my goals is to buy a "vacation home" (aka, BOL) with some acreage so we can have some cattle and other livestock.  It's strange that my ancestors were mostly farmers and ranchers, and now I want to continue that family tradition.  My father, who is about 70 now, thinks I'm crazy for wanting to go back to an old way of life instead of "advance" to a more modern way of life.

[BlueHound]

I dont have a goal. I just buy here and there. With prices way down Im buying more right now.

You have a goal.  It may not be a specific number of ounces, but your goal is to "buy here and there" until you don't want to any longer.  This seems to be enough to motivate you to continue buying.  I admire that. 

Until recently, I didn't have a silver goal at all, but that may have been why I never bought any.  Having a goal motivates me to get out there and start buying a little on a regular basis.  Without it, I'd just find something else to do with the money, which isn't necessarily a bad thing...as long as I didn't buy too many silly toys.  For some reason though, I'm just ready to start stacking some silver, and shooting for a certain number of ounces motivates me to get out there and do it.  Maybe I'm just weird 

[theBINKYhunter]

i don't have a set goal either, as some have said, i'm just looking to add a little here and there. my wife doesn't see the value in silver. it's not as tangible to her as extra food or a gun. a guess that's a good problem to have...

i buy a little here and there when i can and am trying to hit the 5-10% number that jack says. i don't do a lot of investing but that number makes sense from my limited knowledge. learning the market and investing is something i'm trying to learn when i have time so that i can better manage our money.

the other limiting factor on me investing is money is we are driving hard to get out of debt. as much as i'd love silver i'd rather be out of debt sooner.

[CharlesH]

. I would rather buy more cattle, land, rental property or equipment than silver as they can increase your wealth at a much faster rate and they are a safer bet.

Ah, another guy that owns cattle.  I'm guessing you are quite a bit larger than mine, though I have Lowlines and from your website it looks like you have Dexter, so our cattle are comparable!
 
Obviously I am going to agree with you about the value of cattle!  But "safer" is a term that may mean different things to different people.  For example, you also mentioned equipment as something that grows faster and is safer than silver.  I have found equipment (mowers, rakes, balers, tractors, etc.) to actually be depreciating assets that can suck away a lot of my time as I try to fix them, run them, and maintain them.  My business model has been to put my money in the land and cattle and hire out the services of people who own the equipment as much as possible.  I obviously have to have some equipment, but I try to minimize it.
 
  My concern about the future ability to pay property taxes in a high inflationary environment when my other investments may also be falling in value makes precious metals "safer" for me.  My business model has PMs available to sell when other investments are falling.  I agree with you, I think, that in high inflation times the value of my land and cattle would also probably be increasing, but those are the things I want to protect from having to sell in a crisis.
 
BTW I also like your website!  Looks like you are doing some cool stuff!

[BlueHound]

the other limiting factor on me investing is money is we are driving hard to get out of debt. as much as i'd love silver i'd rather be out of debt sooner.

I can't agree more.  We have a mortgage and car loan; otherwise, we are debt free.  I can't tell you how good it feels to be out from under a pile of credit card and student loan debt.  It's like having a huge weight lifted off your shoulders, and the sense of freedom is incredible.  We are going to throw a big party when we pay off the mortgage, but then we'll probably get another mortgage for our "vacation home".  Unless we just pay cash when silver goes well over $200/oz in the next decade or so.  Hmmm, for some reason the music to the song "Dreamer" by SuperTramp just started to play in my head.

[JLMissouri]

Thanks BlueHound and CharlesH, I just started my website early this year and have a lot more to add but ran into planting and hay season. I don't have much cattle, I just started my herd last year when prices bottomed out due to the drought. My herd is comprised of mostly Dexters, but I also have a little bit of everything else. I would like to add some Lowlines to my herd as well, but have not found any at a good price in my area.  As I am just starting out I wanted to sample every breed.

If you buy newer equipment I agree with you CharlesH that it isn't a good investment. I however am not rich enough to even consider new equipment and most of my stuff is antique. Every piece I have bought would sell for more now then what I bought it for, because I wait for the good deal. I do have to put money into maintaining my equipment, but I more than make that back by selling the excess I glean by the use of that equipment. I paid for all my hay equipment from the first cutting on less than twenty acres. I consider equipment as a great investment because if you buy the right equipment you will be making money with it.

Bluehound I too am returning to the profession of my ancestors. My grandfather was a farmer, and would judge a man by his ability to do real days work. Not one of his kids continued the farm and it skipped a generation. My dad grew up on the farm but had no interest in farming. He loved the country, but was fine living in the city. I hated the city my whole life, and am currently working on starting my own small family farm. In a strange turn of events I ended up a half mile from my Grandpa's old farm and will be buying a piece of it this year to add to my farm.

[CharlesH]

I paid for all my hay equipment from the first cutting on less than twenty acres. I consider equipment as a great investment because if you buy the right equipment you will be making money with it.

 
I sent you a question about this just now over on the best investment thread so I won't repeat.  But I am very interested in your equipment recommendations.  If I could show my spouse the return on it (she's an accountant and the main bread winner in the family, I teach in a catholic school at the moment) we would probably go for it for next year.  I'm guessing stuff comes on sale in the fall?
 

[breamer999]

I'm in the 500-1000 camp.  I have a mix of 10oz bars, 5oz bars and my Canadian Maple Leafs.  I figure the bars are to convert to fiat when needed .  I am not sure of the legality of melting Canadian Maple Leafs up here, so they would be direct currency.  Once I hit 1000 oz, Im will switch to Gold.  Even though it is still high, you can't beat it for transportability.  1000 oz of silver is just too hard to move around and hide.  But 20oz of Gold has incredible wealth in small space..