cheaper than dirt price gouging on ammo

[Billy McKay]

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM3172-5.html

CTD has been racking up quite a reputation as ripoff artists lately, but this is a new low.

[RonH2K]

Awwww... ...man!  Could you imagine being one of the poor joe's that wrote a review talking about how GREAT the price is back when it was Cheaper Than Dirt?!  So, I guess if I ever write a review, I'll have to list the price I'm referencing!

I used to love reviews, but I'm seeing more and more cases of them being questionable tools.  My latest heartbreak was writing a less-than-glowing review of a particular item and not having it published.  I didn't slam the thing, basically said I preferred the previous generation of the item.  You shouldn't selectively publish reviews.  This was on a Kayak Fishing board and I no longer frequent the seller and associated forums because of their review handling.   

[Billy McKay]

Awwww... ...man!  Could you imagine being one of the poor joe's that wrote a review talking about how GREAT the price is back when it was Cheaper Than Dirt?!  So, I guess if I ever write a review, I'll have to list the price I'm referencing!

I used to love reviews, but I'm seeing more and more cases of them being questionable tools.  My latest heartbreak was writing a less-than-glowing review of a particular item and not having it published.  I didn't slam the thing, basically said I preferred the previous generation of the item.  You shouldn't selectively publish reviews.  This was on a Kayak Fishing board and I no longer frequent the seller and associated forums because of their review handling.   

I think those reviews are tounge in cheek, put up by people after the price went to 70 bucks (more like 80 with shipping). They are goofing on how rediculous CTD is.

[chrisdfw]

CTD were some of the first to raise prices and are the most aggressive.

I refuse to play. I can get Federal hydrashock 380 cheaper than that!

[SteveInTx]

About ten years ago their store was a fun place to go, now they are just another large gun shop (Cabela's wannabe).

[punkndisorderly]

I'm keeping a mental list of the worst gougers so that I can be sure to NEVER buy anything from them again. I understand the price hikes as passed on by the manufacturers but when you start charging way over a fair markup, you'll never get another dime from me. The sad thing is, people are willingly paying that price. Notice the item is on backorder now.

I'd really like to hear some of the major manufacturers explain their price increases. I have a feeling that it's less higher prices for raw materials like lead, brass, steel, powder igredients, etc. I think there are some of the suppliers getting filthy rich off of playing manufacturers off each other in a bidding war and some manufacturers with a "Whatever the market will bear today" attitude rather than a "Make a good product for a fai price and build customer loyalty" attitude. When I pick up on that attitude, I go elsewhere and never come back (and tell others to stay away).

It's akin to a new car dealer marking up that hot new model by $10,000 over sticker. Yes, someone the dealer may never see again may buy it but customers like me that would buy several vehicles there over the years, send their buddies there, and get all their maintenance done there go elsewhere. More often than not, places like that lose big time in the long run.

[JokersWild]

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM3172-5.html

CTD has been racking up quite a reputation as ripoff artists lately, but this is a new low.

I'm not crazy about ammo prices but if you're a free marketer like myself you have to accept that this is NOT gouging, it's merely an attempt to capitalize on current market trends.

[UnderTheRadar]

I'm not crazy about ammo prices but if you're a free marketer like myself you have to accept that this is NOT gouging, it's merely an attempt to capitalize on current market trends.

Agreed.  Prices rise and fall to meet demand.  A company is in business to make as much profit as customers are willing to give.  When demand drops or supply increases, their prices will drop.  This is not the same as jacking up food prices to starving people in a disaster area.

People who waited until now to buy ammo, and think Obama will outlaw sales tomorrow, are willing to pay anything to get some protection for their family.

The whole point of preparing is so you don't have to pay panic prices at the last minute. 

+1 joker

UnderTheRadar

[chrisdfw]

I'm not crazy about ammo prices but if you're a free marketer like myself you have to accept that this is NOT gouging, it's merely an attempt to capitalize on current market trends.

I don't like the term gouging, but it is a free market.

The other side of a free market is that as a customer I don't have to buy things from people who I feel are not treating me fairly.

I know that the manufacturers have not increased their prices by very much, I have friends in the firearms industry and they still get
things for mostly the same prices. Some manufacturers are running overtime shifts and have raised their prices a little, but mostly the
wholesale prices haven't changed or changed very little.

So depending on the distributor and retailer the prices are getting jacked there. Based on what I have been told, it is at the retailer
level because more things are the same price at the distributor.

I doubt cheaper than dirt is paying any more for their ammo than they were a few months ago.
This is America and they have the right to charge as much for their ammo as they want. I believe in freedom. BUT I also have the right
to end doing business with them. I used to go to the Cheaper Than Dirt store. I liked to walk around and check out their goods. It is
fun for someone who likes firearms, but I no longer go there.

You pick your business model. Charge as much as possible and alienate customers, or be more fair and get long term customers. I think
some are being short sighted. Not just retailers but customers too, paying these prices are short sighted. Charging these prices is short sighted.
Should prices rise, some. They also should rise to keep goods available. If the prices stay too low, some people might stock up and people who really need it won't be able to find it. Prices help to ration scarce goods. Otherwise maybe I buy all the ammo and nobody else gets any. I understand capitalism, I have an economics degree, but what you have to understand is that for it to work BUYERS must be informed and behave rationally.

I won't do business with anyone like this. That is the other part of capitalism.

70 for 50rnds blazer... insanity. Besides, I hope nobody is protecting their family with these loads. Get some good hollowpoints.

I hesitate to say this, but if anyone here is thinking of paying these prices, post in the thread and I might be able to help you get a better price. I am not a dealer, but a member of local shooting clubs and have a few connections. I don't want to see anybody ripped off.

[punkndisorderly]

were this a free market, I'd agree with you. However, I have a feeling it's really not.

If it were a free market, supply would rapidly catch up with demand. Producers would make more and/or new producers would enter the market. That doesn't seem to be happening to any great extent for whatever reason. Perhaps government regulation or perhaps fear of spending money on tooling and materials for something that may be outlawed or curtailed before the investment can be recouped.

 Then you have to figure in the effect government policies are having on ammo prices and demand like federal excise taxes, the military using up large amounts in to foreign wars and training for said wars, the DOD (at least temporarily) suspending the sale of surplus brass to remanufacterers which accounts for tens of millions of rounds of ammo, etc.

A company raising prices to remain profitable is capitalism, doing so to take advantage of a situtation that doesn't offer greater risk (and in the case of ammo, less risk) is gouging. I would compare it to a gas company raising prices to compensate for increased prices from distributors, an increase in rent payments, taxes, etc would be capitalism. A gas station doubling or tripling prices during a hurricane evacuation just because they know people will have to fill up is gouging.

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Meh, looks like they're out of .380 now.  From what I heard today, .380 is one of the most difficult calibers to get hold of. 

I was hunting down 9mm ammo earlier,  & I've finally experienced hitting the ammo wall....as far as handgun ammo goes anyway.  There was still plenty of .223 to be had but the cheapest 9MM I could find...when I fnally found it, was $20 a box for what used to sell for $9 or $10 a box.  I actually saw boxes of 9MM ammo marked $60, unbelievable.  Walmart was completely out of handgun ammo, I mean they had nothing but rifle ammo left.  Lots of .223 again though.  I asked the guy how long it takes them to sell out usually & he said minutes when people find out they have ammo in stock again.

I'm way behind the curve on 9mil because I haven't had one in quite a while.  Guess I'm playing catch up now too.

[chris]

High prices are a good thing, it encourages investment by entrepreneurs. The influx of producers will bid up raw materials, which will encourage investment, by entrepreneurs in those sectors. Eventually all that investment will bring increased production, which will bring an increase in supply, and a decrease in price.

Vive la Capitalism!

[chrisdfw]

Meh, looks like they're out of .380 now.  From what I heard today, .380 is one of the most difficult calibers to get hold of. 

I was hunting down 9mm ammo earlier, 'cause this sexy little XD 9MM Tactical followed me home today & I've finally experienced hitting the ammo wall....as far as handgun ammo goes anyway.  There was still plenty of .223 to be had but the cheapest 9MM I could find...when I fnally found it, was $20 a box for what used to sell for $9 or $10 a box.  I actually saw boxes of 9MM ammo marked $60, unbelievable.  Walmart was completely out of handgun ammo, I mean they had nothing but rifle ammo left.  Lots of .223 again though.  I asked the guy how long it takes them to sell out usually & he said minutes when people find out they have ammo in stock again.

I'm way behind the curve on 9mil because I haven't had one in quite a while.  Guess I'm playing catch up now too.

I always talk to the sporting goods people at Walmart and they talk about the "hoarding". I suppose if I bought what I wanted it would be hoarding too. I like to shoot and will easily go through 1000 rounds a month if I could find it.

They told me when they typically get shipments and that people buy a case, which is what they call hoarding. 1000 rounds is just not that much for handgun shooters who like to shoot.

I refuse to pay the new higher prices, so I check walmart and buy it when they have it, I buy as much as I can get, because I can't pick up a box on the way to the range anymore.

[JokersWild]

were this a free market, I'd agree with you. However, I have a feeling it's really not.

If it were a free market, supply would rapidly catch up with demand. Producers would make more and/or new producers would enter the market. That doesn't seem to be happening to any great extent for whatever reason. Perhaps government regulation or perhaps fear of spending money on tooling and materials for something that may be outlawed or curtailed before the investment can be recouped.

Looks like you answered your own question.

Then you have to figure in the effect government policies are having on ammo prices and demand like federal excise taxes, the military using up large amounts in to foreign wars and training for said wars, the DOD (at least temporarily) suspending the sale of surplus brass to remanufacterers which accounts for tens of millions of rounds of ammo, etc.

A company raising prices to remain profitable is capitalism, doing so to take advantage of a situtation that doesn't offer greater risk (and in the case of ammo, less risk) is gouging. I would compare it to a gas company raising prices to compensate for increased prices from distributors, an increase in rent payments, taxes, etc would be capitalism. A gas station doubling or tripling prices during a hurricane evacuation just because they know people will have to fill up is gouging.

You can't make that comparison because most states have laws in place that prevent the type of price increase you're speaking of and in one the people's lives are in danger and while we may feel our life is in danger because of lack of ammo the state does not.

[chris]

A gas station doubling or tripling prices during a hurricane evacuation just because they know people will have to fill up is gouging.

This is a common failure in logic. If you were a gas station owner, and you knew that you could only sell gas for the regular price (whatever socialist mindset makes up that concept) why would you stay? Why not just shut down and leave? Why would any distributor brave the area to bring in additional supplies, at increased risk, for the regular price? The additional profit would encourage people to take additional risk, to provide supplies and services, that a damaged area badly needs.

Some years back a store owner in NC was charged with gouging on ice. The power was out and he had to bring in a generator, and fuel, to keep the ice machine cold. But he can't pass along the additional cost. The same storm, there was a guy who got two of his buddies, loaded up on ice, and was heading for the area (300 miles away) but turned around when he heard they were prosecuting for "gouging". And the morons in the area were carping about not having supplies. There problem could have been easily solved, there were people out there ready and willing to provide those supplies, but not under "regular" prices.

Ice costs more to an Arab than an Eskimo. If the simple minded people in this country actually understood that statement, there's be a LOT less hardship after natural disasters.

[Billy McKay]

I'm not crazy about ammo prices but if you're a free marketer like myself you have to accept that this is NOT gouging, it's merely an attempt to capitalize on current market trends.

Selling a box of pistol ammo that retails for 12 bucks at a 500 percent plus markup is at the very least an excessive overcharge. Maybe gouge isn't the right word.

[JokersWild]

This is a common failure in logic. If you were a gas station owner, and you knew that you could only sell gas for the regular price (whatever socialist mindset makes up that concept) why would you stay? Why not just shut down and leave? Why would any distributor brave the area to bring in additional supplies, at increased risk, for the regular price? The additional profit would encourage people to take additional risk, to provide supplies and services, that a damaged area badly needs.

Some years back a store owner in NC was charged with gouging on ice. The power was out and he had to bring in a generator, and fuel, to keep the ice machine cold. But he can't pass along the additional cost. The same storm, there was a guy who got two of his buddies, loaded up on ice, and was heading for the area (300 miles away) but turned around when he heard they were prosecuting for "gouging". And the morons in the area were carping about not having supplies. There problem could have been easily solved, there were people out there ready and willing to provide those supplies, but not under "regular" prices.

Ice costs more to an Arab than an Eskimo. If the simple minded people in this country actually understood that statement, there's be a LOT less hardship after natural disasters.

Actually if we stopped subsidizing people living in disaster areas there would be a lot less hardship after natural disasters.

America as a whole has the mindset of freedom (from want).