Author Topic: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus  (Read 18088 times)

Offline UnderTheRadar

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Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« on: April 04, 2009, 02:50:50 PM »
I ate some bad soup at the company cafeteria Thursday.  :(

I tried to tough it out but ended up spending the night on the bathroom floor in a cold sweat because I was too weak to make the trip back to the bedroom.  Ugh.  Ended up at the emergency room getting two liters of IV fluid pumped into me.

Lesson for survival preps:
  • Get an emergency toilet, plenty of plastic bags, and toilet paper and place them near the bed.


    Stockpile Imodium A-D, sports drinks, and water near the bed.

    Get a couple of IV kits
    and solution and training.
This was a close call; my vitals were crashing, I couldn't stand, and my electrolytes were messed up.

Because I ate soup.   :-\

Post SHTF disease will be rampant among the unprepared (malnourished), and people will die from untreated diarrhea.

Not a pleasant topic, sorry for that.

UnderTheRadar

HumeMan

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 02:54:47 PM »
That's why we all need to make best friends with a nurse and make sure she stays at your house if SHTF.  I've got 2 already lined up. ;D

Offline ebonearth

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 03:24:30 PM »
I hope you made a full recovery UnderTheRadar!

I agree, training is priceless. Emergency toilets are also cool, especially since you can set them into outhouse structures or reinforce them so they are less wobbly. Nobody wants one of those tipping at the least opportune moment.

Offline archer

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 09:38:11 PM »
Wow, that sounds nasty UnderTheRadar. I'm glad you are out of the hospital and recovering. Good points on what will happen when SHTF.

HumeMan

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2009, 06:03:39 AM »
Even if we had the training to start an IV, can you even buy bags to run through you???

Offline UnderTheRadar

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009, 05:01:09 PM »
Even if we had the training to start an IV, can you even buy bags to run through you???

http://www.atlanticmedsupply.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=243&cat=IV+Solutions

$8.99 for a 1 liter bag, and they generally have a shelf life of 18 months.

UnderTheRadar

Offline RonH2K

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2009, 05:50:20 PM »
That's why we all need to make best friends with a nurse and make sure she stays at your house if SHTF.  I've got 2 already lined up. ;D

Thanks a TON, HumeMan!  I just told my wife I'm gettin' a nurse for my BOB and it looks like it's now going to be a cold night in bed!  LOL!

If she doesn't straighten up, maybe I'll announce I'm getting two... ...one for the BOB and one for EDC!

 :P

Offline something_feral

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2009, 05:52:34 PM »
From my limited medical experience, which is considerably more advanced than that of the average layperson, I can say without reservation that I am totally unprepared and unwilling to administer an IV without profession assistance. Furthermore, I'm not overly keen on exposing myself to blood-borne pathogens through injury or handling hazardous materials with sharp edges.

Supposing a situation where it was imperative to rehydrate a patient via alternative means, I would be more inclined to make use of an enema. Given basic precautionary procedure through the use of disposable gloves and the use of antiseptic both before and after the procedure, I believe this is a superior method for those without sufficient medical knowledge to administer an IV.

I also understand that this sounds unpleasant, and it is, but considering limited means, equipment, and skill, I believe it is the best option for treatment.

Quote from: The Internet Journal of Gastroenterology™ ISSN: 1528-8323

Proctoclysis

Proctoclysis refers to the rectal administration of fluids developed for patients who require parenteral hydration, but who are unable to receive it by another route, because of contraindications or lack of technical resources. Decreased oral intake is an consequence of cancer associated anorexia, lassitude, depression, gastrointestinal symptoms or mass effect of the tumor that precludes oral intake. Absorption of fluids has been noticed after enemas. It is a safe, effective and low-cost technique for the delivery of hydration in terminally ill cancer patients, who do not have tumor involvement of the colon. (76) It does not need any sterile device or manipulation and can be delivered by family members or other non-professionals, with minimal training and oversight. Potential applications may lie in rural areas or developing countries with minimal access to health care professionals.

A #22 French nasogastric catheter is inserted approximately 40 cm into the rectum and normal saline or tap water is infused at a rate of 250 cc/hr. Hydration is well maintained at minimal cost and discomfort. In patients with severely restricted oral intake or dehydration, the decision to administer fluids should be individualized and made on the basis of a careful assessment that considers problems related to dehydration, potential risks and benefits of fluid replacement, and patients' and families' wishes. (77)

K.Ramakrishnan, M.D.
Department Of Family And Preventive Medicine
University Of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center
900 N.E.10th Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73104
U.S.A.
TEL: (405) 271-8818
Email: [kramakrishnan@ouhsc.edu]

76. Bruera E; Pruvost M; Schoeller T; Montejo G; Watanabe S. Proctoclysis for hydration of terminally ill cancer patients. J Pain Symptom Manage 1998; 15: 216-219. (s)

77. Steiner N, Bruera E. Methods of hydration in palliative care patients. J Palliat Care 1998; 14: 6-13. (s)


HumeMan

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2009, 06:06:29 PM »
I think I'd rather just drink a jug of water instead.

Offline RonH2K

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2009, 08:37:26 PM »
+1 Good info!

I'll keep a running tally of the number of days before we see "Enema Kit" in someone's BOB listing on this site.  We should start a betting pool on the number of days.  LOL!

Offline chris

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 09:14:01 PM »
+1 for the vital fluids. Drinking water isn't always an option, and dehydration is a killer.

Offline something_feral

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2009, 02:46:05 AM »

Offline Asclepius

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 10:41:24 AM »
Why the hell are untrained people so fucking fixated on IV's?

Unless you start them every day for your job, you're probably not going to be good enough to stick a sick person in shock with collapsed veins. So for the love of God spend your time, money and energy on something useful rather than on expensive and difficult to use IV supplies.

Offline DIM TIM

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 11:30:26 AM »
Great post there UnderTheRadar.  A  +1 from me for sure. I know first hand about the effects of debilitating sickness and dehydration.
In the past three weeks I have been diagnosed with pancreatitis by the doctor I am seeing. In those three weeks I lost close to thirty five lbs. I could not keep enough food in my body to keep from it. Also as a result, I started to become seriously dehydrated to the point where I would have been hospitalized. Continuious vommiting will do this to you.

Fortunately for me, I did get the nausea stopped enough to start keeping food down the last three days to start regaining the weight I lost, and started to keep enough fluids in my body to fend off the effects of the dehydration.These are not things to be taken lightly for sure.  YOU CAN DIE VERY QUICKLY.

I am not a doctor, but have had the experience of a nurse to guide me in my health for almost fifty years now. I am speaking of my own mother.
She was a registered nurse for over thirty years before retiring, and I have had many conversations  over the years with her on a great many aspects of health.
I have also known a few others over the years, and gleaned many bits of useful information from them as well.

For those of you who read this post, I would like to pass along some of these insights and thoughts as well, so that some of you can be better prepared for problems such as these.

The most important thing to remember is always seek professional help. These people spend their time to know these things, and that is what they do best.
If you can't get their help right away, or even at all, then you must know what to do to help yourself or a loved one. Get some training if you have to.
   If you can't do that, then remember to go easy while trying to not add to the problem.

First thing most everyone should know is how to tell if they are becoming dehydrated. This is an easy one to diagnose. When you go to the restroom to pass your urine, look at the color.
Normal urine should be the color of water if you are properly hydrated. If not, more fluids are needed. Water is always the best solution.
If you become seriously dehydrated, the next dead give-away is your muscles will start to cramp very seriously. This comes from the loss of minerals and electrolytes from the body.
 These need to be replaced as soon as possible by drinks like POWERADE,GATORADE, and PEDIALYTE for children.
To combat the cramps that can be just as hard on the body as the problems that you already have, I keep a bottle of HYLANDS homeopathic legcramp tablets here at home at all times. http://www.hylands.com/products/legcramps.php
These work quickly, and to keep from any possible stomach upset, they are placed under the tongue. They dissolve very quickly and are basicly a sugar pill base, so there is no bad taste or aftertaste. They contain Qinnine, and are recomended by pharmacists, and can be taken with other medications.

When dealing with these problems, remember to never use any sugary fluids like sodas. The citric acid is hard enough on your stomach, and the sugar is the worse possible thing you could add to it. While Gatorade and PowerAde do contain some sugar, it is still high in electrolytes, and these are something that your body needs as much of, as soon as you can replace it. Just don't over-do it. I suggest about 8-9 oz. for every quart of water that you drink to start. Small sips of it as you do will slowly start to revitalize your system, and keep any nausea to a minimum.

As soon as you can start eating solid food, remember to keep it simple and bland for a short period of time. While this is hard for some folks to do, this can't be stated enough. You are trying to make things better, not worse.
Doctors take the Hypocratic Oath, and part of that oath states that they WILL DO NO HARM, and so they try to addminister to their patients in a way that will do just this. Follow their lead. Go slow, go easy, and know what you should do to fix the problem. Don't make a bad situation worse. Fix it right the first time, because you may not get a second chance.


Offline Klonus

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2009, 10:35:03 PM »
I think the lesson to be learned is to try to stay well hydrated throughout the day.  If anyone has spent any time in the marines or army, it is something that is stressed time and time again.  Once you become dehydrated, your body cant absorb water by drinking fast enough to replace the fluid loss and you can suffer from a mild headache to loss of life.  Sure an IV is a solution to treat someone with dehydration, but proper training is very important.  Also, someone receiving an IV needs to be supervised in case the IV needle falls out.  These are generally, larger needles, so the loss of blood from a dislodged needle can be very dangerous.  I would recommend getting your daily intake of water, and if need be, find a properly trained person to administer help.  If you insist on doing this on your own, take some training and keep up on it.  The red cross might be a good starting point to find such training.  Otherwise a local community college or technical school may have a program. If you are current military, a combat life saver course will teach these exact skills.  Take this if you have the chance. When it comes to medical treatment that can be a matter of life and death, its better to be safe than sorry. 

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2009, 12:52:10 AM »
I'd have to agree with klonus and Asclepius, IV's are for professional use alone its just easier to stay hydrated. I had a Engineer from my Fire Academy teach me a little trick, if your not pissing clear fluid you are dehydrated. On the training, I don't think that any level under EMT-Paramedic or Combat Life Savers are trained to do an IV. I could be wrong.

Offline Ultio1

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2009, 08:42:24 AM »
Why the hell are untrained people so fucking fixated on IV's?

Unless you start them every day for your job, you're probably not going to be good enough to stick a sick person in shock with collapsed veins. So for the love of God spend your time, money and energy on something useful rather than on expensive and difficult to use IV supplies.

Ok ?

Just who the hell are you? Why do insist on assuming people here are untrained. I was trained to administer IVs in the Army and have done it many times.  We had to stick our buddy and then ourselves. Many times. Many people here are veterans with such experience. The one who arent are the type who LEARN HOW TO save someones life instead of saying" its too hard, Im not a professional" 

P.S. it took almost a whole half an hour to learn.

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2009, 09:29:28 AM »
I'd have to agree with klonus and Asclepius, IV's are for professional use alone its just easier to stay hydrated. I had a Engineer from my Fire Academy teach me a little trick, if your not pissing clear fluid you are dehydrated. On the training, I don't think that any level under EMT-Paramedic or Combat Life Savers are trained to do an IV. I could be wrong.

Generally EMT Intermediates are trained to IV (EMT II here in AK). I too learned in Combat Medic course and it's not that hard (hardest part is psychological breaking skin barrier). 

That being said, unless you live with someone that can be trained to do it and practices regularly, (as Asclepuis very un-eloquently relays) I'd steer away from IV and go with drinking electrolyte heavy drinks.  IV are OK if your very remote and you have folks comfortable with procedure. 

Oh, and I'd keep poo bucket out to the bedroom not matter how sick you are.  Sleep in the bathroom or check in to hospital ;D!

I keep the Gator aid type mix but don't know how long that it stays good. 

Glad your better and I'd be brown bagging it for a while.  BTW, did you notify the cafeteria and did they have any one else hit with bubbly gut?

BP

Offline doublehelix

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2009, 05:14:50 PM »
UTR, sorry to hear of your illness.

IV"s aren't that difficult, but are you REALLY going to try to start one on yourself
if you're on the floor shaking from illness and dehydrated ?  Probably not.  Veins
on a dehydrated person are VERY difficult to find.

Gatoraid is a less than optimal choice for fluid replacement for gastrointestinal illness BTW.  The un-diluted
Osmosity sucks, and the high sugar content and relative lack of electolyte replacement isn't optimal.
Gatoraid diluted by 1/2 with plain water is a backup to ORS.

http://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm Oral Rehydration Solution
flavored by a little unsweetened Koolaid is MUCH better.
You can pre-make it and keep it around.  You will need a lot of it.

I actually prefer CeraLyte, a commercial ORS
http://www.joediveramerica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=JDA&Product_Code=0155-0225&Affiliate=froogle


Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 07:22:03 PM »
UTR, sorry to hear of your illness.

IV"s aren't that difficult, but are you REALLY going to try to start one on yourself
if you're on the floor shaking from illness and dehydrated ?  Probably not.  Veins
on a dehydrated person are VERY difficult to find.

Gatoraid is a less than optimal choice for fluid replacement for gastrointestinal illness BTW.  The un-diluted
Osmosity sucks, and the high sugar content and relative lack of electolyte replacement isn't optimal.
Gatoraid diluted by 1/2 with plain water is a backup to ORS.
http://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm Oral Rehydration Solution
flavored by a little unsweetened Koolaid is MUCH better.
You can pre-make it and keep it around.  You will need a lot of it.
I actually prefer CeraLyte, a commercial ORS
http://www.joediveramerica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=JDA&Product_Code=0155-0225&Affiliate=froogle


Very good information there Doublehelix, thank you. 

BP

Offline Spamity Calamity

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 07:46:21 PM »
Thanks under the radar for making us think of often overlooked supplies. Personally, Id rather take my chance with drinking some fluids or using an IV than an enema.

Offline UnderTheRadar

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 11:38:36 PM »
IV"s aren't that difficult, but are you REALLY going to try to start one on yourself
if you're on the floor shaking from illness and dehydrated ? 

I turn green just thinking of needles;  :P I don't expect to ever stick myself. 

I do want supplies handy if I can round up medical help.  My mother and sister-in-law are both nurses, and if the emergency rooms are all full and are running out of supplies I want to be able to get the treatment I need.

Katrina showed we can not rely on government help.

UnderTheRadar

Offline student

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2009, 06:37:55 AM »
The Best Way to Rehydrate WSHTF

Diarrhoea and vomiting kill millions in the third world. IV rehydration is costly and impractical in this environment. There has been huge success in preventing death with use of oral rehydration therapy (ORT). The basic principle is that water absorption from the small bowel is linked to sodium (salt) absorption, which is enhanced in the presence of glucose (sugar). By drinking water containing small amounts of sodium (salt) and glucose (sugar), rehydration is more effective than drinking plain water alone. This is the same principle used in sports drinks such as Gatorade. A mobile and light-weight equivalent are small sachets of rehydration powder which you mix with a certain volume of water to produce a Gatorade-like drink. These can be purchased over-the-counter at your local pharmacy, and are shown earlier in the thread. You can also make your own oral rehydration fluid by adding small amounts of salt and sugar to water (although you will miss out on some other electrolytes used in the commercial preparations) and there is risk of exacerbating dehydration if you add too much salt.

For more information, check out: http://rehydrate.org/ors/ort.htm

Limitations of IV Replacement

IV fluid replacement is very useful when someone is too sick to take fluid orally. Unfortunately, unlike when it is used acutely for resuscitation (i.e. massive bleeding in the battlefield or following car accidents), IV fluid replacement in diarrhoea and vomiting can get a bit complicated. In addition to causing fluid loss, diarrhoea and vomiting also cause losses of potassium and bicarbonate. With severe diarrhoea, these can be significant. If you are in a survival environment and you require large volume rehydration with intravenous saline you will fail to replace these additional electrolytes. The result is that you could develop a very low blood potassium level through dilution effects from the saline. Potassium is crucial to normal heart electrical activity, and low potassium levels can cause cardiac rhythm disturbances or arrest. In hospital, this is avoided through frequent blood test monitoring and replacement of potassium by adding it the IV fluids. In the woods, it could kill you. If you have an IV kit and choose to use it in this setting, best use it to save you in a near death/semiconscious and unable to drink setting then push the ORT as much as possible when you/patient can take things orally.

Use of Immodium (Loperamide) in Infectious Diarrhoea

Immodium is a drug used to slow down the gut so that the amount of diarrhoea is reduced. There is conflict as to whether or not immodium should be taken in infectious diarrhoea. This is in part due to the belief that diarrhoea (or at least increased bowel peristalsis/activity) is a defence mechanism that acts to clear bugs and toxins from the gut and shorten the duration/severity of infection. By taking immodium, you are preventing this normal clearance mechanism from occurring and could theoretically worsening the length of diarrhoea. Unfortunately, there is little trial data to convincingly prove this assertion (no $$$ for drug companies to prove this) and so the recommendation to avoid immodium in infectious diarrhoea is empirical. It is better used for non-infectious diarrhoea.

Surviving

The best advice is to avoid gastroenteritis all together. This means:
  • Store food safely: A significant amount of infectious diarrhoea is caused by pre-formed toxin that is heat stable. That is, whilst your piece of meat is sitting in the plastic bag in your pack, bugs are producing protein toxins that survive even the most thorough heat cooking processes. The only way to prevent this from occurring is by chilling those items that need to be chilled, or avoid them all together.
  • Prepare food safely: wash hands, don't use raw meet utensils with cooked meet/veggies, etc.
  • Get vaccinated for common bacterial causes of gastroenteritis.

Addit: just realised there was a similar forum discussion about oral rehydration here [http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=313.0].
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:42:52 AM by student »

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2009, 08:29:18 AM »
Student, +1 on your first post!  We appreciate knowledge here and you are great addition.

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Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2009, 08:40:03 AM »
Under the Radar, thank you for an eye opening subject! 

Can I hijack a little to expand this to your family dog?  We used IV and lactated ringers on our Military Working Dogs (MWD) when they start getting heat stressed in the sand box and hotter parts of the US.  We grab the skin between the shoulder blades, pull it up and push the needle into the area between the skin and muscle.  We then squeeze the ringers (cool to luke warm!  Never use cold ringers as they cold cause shock problems) as fast as we can, then pull it out.  this creates a hump that will rotate to the side then absorb over an hour or so.  This ensured that MWD were hydraded and helped in cooling them down along with soaking thier paws, and in extreme cases inside thighs.  The MWDs handled it well. 

DISCLAIMER!!!:  Wouldn't try this on a Dacheshound or other small breeds or Humans.

BP

Offline doublehelix

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 10:13:45 AM »
Under the Radar, thank you for an eye opening subject! 

Can I hijack a little to expand this to your family dog?  We used IV and lactated ringers on our Military Working Dogs (MWD) when they start getting heat stressed in the sand box and hotter parts of the US.  We grab the skin between the shoulder blades, pull it up and push the needle into the area between the skin and muscle.  We then squeeze the ringers (cool to luke warm!  Never use cold ringers as they cold cause shock problems) as fast as we can, then pull it out. 

Subcutaneous dextrose for rehydration:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2318/4/2

Conclusion
The four studies appraised all provide evidence that appropriate volumes of subcutaneous dextrose infusions (in the form of half-normal saline-glucose 5%, 40 g/L dextrose and 30 mmol/L NaCl, or 5% dextrose solution and 4 g/L NaCl, or two-thirds 5% glucose and one-third normal saline) can be used effectively for the treatment of dehydration, with similar rates of adverse effects to intravenous infusion. The evidence in this area is limited, and larger randomised controlled trials using validated outcome measures would be useful to confirm these results.

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2009, 10:26:05 AM »
Subcutaneous dextrose for rehydration:
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2318/4/2
Conclusion
The four studies appraised all provide evidence that appropriate volumes of subcutaneous dextrose infusions (in the form of half-normal saline-glucose 5%, 40 g/L dextrose and 30 mmol/L NaCl, or 5% dextrose solution and 4 g/L NaCl, or two-thirds 5% glucose and one-third normal saline) can be used effectively for the treatment of dehydration, with similar rates of adverse effects to intravenous infusion. The evidence in this area is limited, and larger randomised controlled trials using validated outcome measures would be useful to confirm these results.

Damn DH your thorough!

I just know that it really worked on our MWDs.  Once one of our dogs went down for heat injury, it was a contant problem there after.  Our vet visits dropped dramatically when we used this procedure and we could see a distinct change in sniffing/working behaviour when procedure was used.  I'm sold on it. 

BP

Offline doublehelix

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2009, 11:13:25 AM »
Damn DH your thorough!

I just know that it really worked on our MWDs.  Once one of our dogs went down for heat injury, it was a contant problem there after.  Our vet visits dropped dramatically when we used this procedure and we could see a distinct change in sniffing/working behaviour when procedure was used.  I'm sold on it. 

BP

It's actually a recommended skill for pandemic preparedness.

One of the local plans here is for alternative care centers in commercial buildings, and training non-medical folks to do
Sub-Q hydration therapy, so I'm a little familiar with it.  ;D

Hydration is GOOD.

Offline student

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2009, 05:45:29 PM »
Subcutaneous rehydration is used frequently for low volume rehydration in palliative care and geriatric settings, particularly to supplement oral fluids. Much like with the MWDs, you grab some fat from the front/side of your abdomen and insert (at a 30-45 degree angle) a small gauge butterfly needle under sterile technique. Then you stick it flat against the abdomen with some tape or Tegaderm. If kept clean and sterile, it can sit there for 2-3 days. The recommended rate for infusion would probably be 1L in 8-10 hours (so its much slower than IV replacement) - this avoids having a large volume of fluid sitting in the subcutaneous tissue (causing a big lump) where it may damage tissue plains and cause discomfort. Normal (0.9%) saline or 5% dextrose is the best bet. Using solutions containing potassium (including Hartmann's/RL) may irritate the tissues after a while - they best belong in the veins.

All in all, in a survival setting without experience in IV access, SC fluids aren't such a bad idea. As they are a relatively slow way of rehydrating, they should best be used to supplement oral rehydration OR prevent worsening of dehydration in someone who is in the earlier stages of gastro. Further, similar to the IV rehydration issue, large volume SC rehydration without replacement of other electrolytes lost in diarrhoea can cause trouble.

Disclaimer: The above discussion is for basic information purposes only. I take no liability for injury/damage/death as a result of implementing the above information. Use at your own risk.

Offline Spamity Calamity

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Re: Medical SHTF got me Thursday - new prep focus
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2009, 09:09:49 AM »

  • Get vaccinated for common bacterial causes of gastroenteritis.




Can you get vaccinated against forms of baceria? I thought it was only viruses.