Author Topic: Single Stage or Turret?  (Read 20048 times)

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Single Stage or Turret?
« on: November 21, 2013, 06:45:13 AM »
i'm getting read to take the plunge and start reloading. hopefully today or tomorrow i'll be able to get over to sportsmans and pick up a manual or two and start flipping through them. here are my basic questions that i'm hoping to get answers for with details following:

1 - what are good manuals to start with, any reputable name i see? i see lyman, speer, hornady and others. should i avoid any?
2 - any particular brands of presses to avoid? any that are gold? (not trying to start a war) also aren't some dies interchangeable with presses of different brands?
3 - the bulk of the post - single stage vs turret pros and cons

i was hoping to hear some pro's and con's of both single stage and turret. i am not going to go with a progressive as it is cost and space prohibitive. i'll explain the space issue.

in another thread mortblac sold me on the idea of a single stage with this:

Quote
If you want or need portability due to confined storage space then mount the Lee press on a piece of 2x4 and use a C-clamp to attach it to the kitchen table.

Keep you dies and components in a tool box and the whole reloading setup will go into the closet when not in use.

that is what i'm going to do. i don't have a dedicated space indoors with climate control and i don't want to set up permanently in my garage because i won't load when it's 100+ outside, which is a large part of the year for me. the kitchen table is looking better and better.

as i was looking at presses and familiarizing myself with them it seems that a turret press would offer the same space requirements as a single stage (maybe slightly more) but still give me the ease of storage that a single stage would.

also from my understanding with a turret press there are 'revolver' like cylinders that your dies go into. with this wouldn't i be able to set up the dies, play with getting everything exactly how i want it, and then never fiddle with them again for that caliber? then all i would need to do is put that cylinder on when i want to load that caliber and i'm good to go... right? if i had a single stage wouldn't i need to change out the die for each step, and is there a lot of tinkering that has to be done to get the die where you want it? i can see all the cylinders taking up a bit more space then dies left alone, but the convenience of the turret setup is appealing.

i am not going for speed here, i'm hoping to be able to sit down a couple evenings a week and load up 10 - 20 rounds. that will help build my stockpile and keep me slow enough to learn and be patient and careful. eventually i want to load for accuracy and not just focus on plinking rounds. that being said if a turret is going to get out of hand with space requirements and require a lot of tinkering and adjusting, a single stage may be the way to go for me.

Offline inconel710

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
  • Karma: 22
  • Not-so-New TSP Forum member
    • My 13Skills Blog
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 10:25:19 AM »
I use the Lyman manual primarily - it's generic and applicable to many different bullet types.  The manuals from bullet manufacturers like Speer, Hornady, and Barnes tend to be specific to their bullet weights and styles.  The Lyman manual also has very good chapters on the process and differences between pistol and rifle reloading as well as information on lead casting.

Most dies are interchangeable with Lee, RCBS, Lyman, Dillon, etc.  I use a Lee Anniversary single stage kit that I picked up used (definitely try Craigslist or your local gun forum before paying full retail!).  The Lee Perfect Powder measure doesn't like stick powders very well, but for low volume reloading it works enough.  I set it to throw about a half grain low then use a cheap digital scale (Hornady labeled, made in China $15 scale) and a powder trickler to get the exact charge I want.

Single stage pros - versatile, cheap, robust (especially if O shaped vice C), forces you to go slow.
Single stage cons - dies have to be setup every time you switch them.

Turret (non-progressive) pros - dies stay on the turret insert so you only have to set them up once and then check periodically
Turret (non-progressive) cons - slightly more expensive, have to buy inserts for additional calibers if you want to keep setup simple, not as robust as an O shaped single stage.
Turret (progressive) cons - significant increase in price.

I have a friend that is very happy with his Lee turret press, so don't let that deter you!  I've been happy with my single stage.  I can reload 50 rounds of 30-06 in a couple of hours after they're tumbled (lube, deprime, clean primer pocket, trim, deburr, re-prime, charge with powder, seat and crimp bullet).  I also check every case multiple times along the way in a chamber gage to check quality.  Some day, I'll save up and get a Dillon 550.

Offline NWPilgrim

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1605
  • Karma: 114
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 10:40:15 AM »
Welcome to reloading!

1) Manuals:
Lots of good manuals and they serve two main purposes: Instruction on reloading procedures, and load data.  With all the load data available from manufacturers online you can get by with one hardcopy manual, but for other reasons you may want to get more than one.  To start with I would get the manual of the manufacturer of the press you get: Lee, Lyman, Speer (RCBS), Hornady, etc.  The photos and any special tools or setup will describe what you have.

Then you might want to get a manual for the type or brand of bullets.  If you are going to be shooting hardcast lead bullets a lot then the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition is the best, as it covers the broadest range of cast bullet weights per cartridge. If you shoot generic jacketed bullets mostly then you don't really need special data and you could go with online sources such as from Hodgdon/Win/IMR, Ramshot, or Accurate, etc.  If you plan to shoot bullets mostly from one of the big manufacturers then I would get their manual as some bullets are much longer or blunter than "generic" and require  special data: Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Barnes (especially!).  Sierra is a very good all-around manual for instruction, jacketed load data and cartridge comments. Hornady has special sections for 5.56x45 NATO (in addition to .223) and .30-06 Garand, and Sierra as separate section also for 5.56x45 NATO but not Garand.

In general, for starting out I would recommend:
- A general purpose instruction/data manual: Lyman 49th Reloading Handbook, Hornady 9th, or Sierra 5th edition
-   OR, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook if shooting mostly hardcast lead bullets
-   OR, the manual of the manufacturer of your press
- AND start with powder from Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester or Ramshot as I think they have the best online data.

2) Brands of presses
Every brand is good and will give many years or decades of service.  personally I have used Lee because it is least expensive and does the job.  Dies will fit from any manufacturer to most any press (I think Dillon has entry level one one that may be odd size).  I like the Lee Breech Lock Challenger or Lee Classic Turret Press.  Lee is less expensive and will do everything you need.  The Breech Lock is a single stage but dies screw into a breech lock collar that snaps into the press.  Sort of like a one-station turret.  You can buy a collar for each die, adjust it once and then just pop in the die each time you use it.  The turret press allows you to load up to four dies, adjust them once and then just pop in a complete set.  The turret press can easily be changed to a single stage by simply removing the indexing rod.  It costs about 50% more than the Breech lock single stage.

Other brands of presses are very good but I would ask myself what am I getting that is worth spending more?  I used my old Challenger (before breech lock) single stage for about 20 years before I upgraded to the Classic Turret which I have used for the last 8 years.  Same with dies.  For starting out the Lee dies are much cheaper and do a good job.  I have Lee, RCBS, and Hornady dies and all my new dies are Lee unless a need a specific feature on another brand.  You may want to try a die set from two or three brands to see what you think.

3) Single Stage versus Turret
Since the Turret can be used as a single stage I think the real difference is cost and space.  The Lee Classic Turret is not much bigger than the Challenger single stage, but Lyman, RCBS or Redding turret presses are much larger than their single stage brethren.  If you can afford it I would go with the Classic Turret Press from Lee.  But the Breech Lock is a pretty capable single stage and I would be happy with that.  In fact, if the breech lock collar design had been available when I started i may never have upgraded to a turret.  I use my turret in single stage mode at least 50% of the time, and for rifle handloads 100% of the time.

I would however get a good general purpose powder measure like the RCBS Uniflow or Hornady.  I like the Lee Auto Disk but it is limited to mostly handgun cartridges.  The Lee perfect Powder Measure worked well for me but then it started leaking badly and stick powders like Varget bridge way more often than in the Uniflow.  I rely on my Uniflow for 80% of my reloading.

Offline Steve Cover

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 414
  • Karma: 60
  • Mr. C ..... Das Ugly Mutt
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 11:02:05 AM »
Wow!!! Which is better Ford of Chevy?

Both are good designs.

Reloading presses are of two basic designs: 
A "C" press that is open in front and only supported in back... These are generally very rugged presses with lots of steel in the back of the "C" shape.
The other is an "O" design where there is a supporting bar built into where the opening of the "C" on the other design.
These are very strong and if your future plans are to swage bullets, of radically reform brass from one cartridge to another would by a good choice.
My first reloading press was a "C" design and I used it for a lot of years without a problem.
When I got into wildcatting, I sold the "C" to a friend and bought an "O" frame design.
The press has been in use for over 25 years... (Its a Pacific brand... Pacific was bought out by Hornady a long time ago)

The "O" frame single stage press has a certain strength factor over a turret.
However, this only comes into play if your are wanting to swage bullets.
For normal reloading functions a good turret press is more than adequate.

Lee makes a very small aluminum "C" frame single stage press that is quite inexpensive.
RCBS on the other hand has several "O" frame steel presses that are truly indestructible... (My choice of the two)

The advantage of a turret is in the time savings.  All of your dies are already installed and adjusted.
When one stage is done, a simple turn of the turret sets up the next stage without having to remove one die, install another and then confirm its proper adjustment.
While a good turret is more expensive than a single stage press, I think it would be a good choice for a beginning reloader.
Lyman still offers a "C" frame turret that is well made and rugged.

My personal favorite single stage presses are made by Hornady, RCBS and Lyman.

I went to a progressive Dillon 550 over twenty years ago. (After I had loaded on single stage presses for about 30 years)
By then, I was loading handgun cartridges in bunches of 500 brass and the time saving was worth the additional cost... (I shoot ALOT!)
I loved that 550 and hated to sell it, but upgraded to Dillon's 650 progressive several years ago.
That being said, I still use my single stage press quite a lot for smaller batches of brass, or special projects like reforming wildcat brass out of regular cartridges.

As far as manuals go, I recommend to my students (I'm an NRA certified Reloading Instructor) to get the Lyman book first.
Lyman does not make jacketed bullets nor powder, so their reloading data includes lots of different powders and bullets and of course, data on their own cast bullet designs.
It is the most well rounded and my choice for a first manual.

Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Barnes, Nosler etc.. all make bullets so their load data is just for their own bullets.
Hogdon and the other powder makers provide loading data only using their own powders.

Understanding the scope of the other manuals, I highly recommend also getting the manuals for the bullet you plan to use.

Get a manual first!!!!
Disregard the load data for now.... Study the front of the book that describes the reloading process and safety factors.

That was "STUDY", don't just read it.  You have to have a very good understanding of the process before you attempt to reload ammunition.

After you have studied the manuals and understand, I feel that you will be better able to make a choice of reloading presses.

One other caveat,  There are a few Morons out there who try to "Improve" over listed ballistics by exceeding the charges listed in the manuals.
Firearms are designed to operate at a certain pressure level.  Cartridges are loaded to stay within those limits.
All firearms are "Proof Fired" with special ammunition that produces pressures about 30-40% higher than normal.
This is "proof" that the gun is safe to use.
These morons I mentioned know that the guns are tested (ONE TIME) with higher pressure loads, and use that knowledge to justify overloading their ammunition.
Guns are not designed to operate for any length of time above the pressures they are made to handle on a regular basis.
Metal fatigue is accumulative... Each over pressure load weakens the metal just a little bit more... After a time the gun will eventually fail.

The most accurate loads are found in the 75-85% range of maximum.
Always load for accuracy and reliability.
If you need more power than that BUY A BIGGER GUN.

Welcome to a new world.

Load smart stay safe.

Steve



« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 11:10:47 AM by Steve Cover »

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 13105
  • Karma: 715
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 11:07:22 AM »
I was a commercial loader for several years using AMMO-LOAD ,Dillon 1050,1000,550B etc. I think you will best start with a single stage press and learn how to load and properly set the dies for each of the calibers that you use. I started ,as a hobby-shooter,with an RCBS and they are built for a lifetime of service. If speed of reloading is important and VOLUME needed,I would use a Dillon 550 with it's easy change die sets. I could load 400 to 500 rounds an hour with mine and it is not so complicated as the Dillon 1000/1050 to set up and maintain consistency of product. I loaded mostly pistol ammo for training and law enforcement and averaged 200,000  plus rounds a month. The electric operated AMMO-Load machines were able to run 5000 rounds an hour for shorter auto loads (380,9MM,40 S&W,45ACP) and 3500 rounds an hour with 38-357-44 spec and Magnum. BUT fast is probably not what you need ,especially with the current supply issues. A good new or used RCBS single stage would be the way to go and is still my 'personal' choice for loading my ammo at home and at the range.

Offline Skunkeye

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1609
  • Karma: 90
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 12:25:42 PM »
I'm just getting into reloading myself, so I can't offer any insight on equipment.  But I did just pick up the Lyman manual, and as a newbie, I'd recommend it.  It's well-written, logical, and easy to read.  I'll probably pick up a couple others over time, but I think the Lyman book is a very good place to start (it has been for me, at least).

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 01:22:28 PM »
I'm just getting into reloading myself, so I can't offer any insight on equipment.  But I did just pick up the Lyman manual, and as a newbie, I'd recommend it.  It's well-written, logical, and easy to read.  I'll probably pick up a couple others over time, but I think the Lyman book is a very good place to start (it has been for me, at least).

i just got back from sportsman's and picked up the lyman manual. also looked at a few rcbs presses to get an idea of size and price. i'll read through this manual and keep researching. i'm also loving the input you guys are giving me and really appreciate it.

Offline ag2

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1034
  • Karma: 41
  • Been fishin' lately?
    • My Startup Challenge

nelson96

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 11:00:11 PM »
I recommend the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme Master Reloading Kit.  It has a lot of the stuff you're going to need to get started and is offered pretty cheaply.  If you find that you like reloading you'll always have an adequate single stage press for testing load recipe's even if you decide later to go with a progressive down the road to speed things up.  The progressive can be used as a single stage but it's nice to just have a stand-alone single stage too.  What you learn with your single stage will help you determine the right progressive for your needs.

Offline Steve Cover

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 414
  • Karma: 60
  • Mr. C ..... Das Ugly Mutt
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2013, 10:49:52 AM »
http://www.amazon.com/ABCs-Reloading-Definitive-Novice-Expert-ebook/dp/B004GUSBP6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385067287&sr=8-2&keywords=reloading+books

This is considered a "must read" for beginners.
+1
Naturally there are other books out about reloading ammunition other than just the reloading manuals.
But, this one is one of the best.

There are several reloading related books out there and as your equipment grows, so should your reloading library.

Another good source if information is the reloading forums.
There you can read a lot of different opinions on specific reloading questions.

One of my favorite is Ammosmith.com.

There are several "How To" videos on that sight that can give a better visual presentation of the reloading process.

Just remember when first starting out go slow and stick with the basic reloading techniques until you are very comfortable with them.
To make good ammunition, you don't need the "advanced" techniques some experienced reloaders also use.

These "advanced" techniques are mostly used by match shooters who try to wring out the maximum accuracy potential out of their cartridges.

You can evolve into them when you are well schooled in the basics and want to tweak your ammo.
After all,   reloading is a hobby of it's own and quite enjoyable.

Just don't try to advance until you have the basics nailed down well.

Steve
 

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM »

Just don't try to advance until you have the basics nailed down well.

 

not planning on going advanced for a while. i want to start reloading to save money and learn. i want to be able to store components and load when i have a few hours of time. then i would really like to get into casting my own bullets. then maybe i'll look at the 'advanced' stuff... if there's a need for it. i'm not shooting national high power matches so i don't need crazy accuracy... yet ;)

Offline SnoHam13

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: 5
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 08:16:51 AM »
all excellent info posted
the only thing I can add is AFTER you get the Lyman book [and study it cover to cover] there is One book/One Caliber
it covers all the data for one cartridge [example 45 colt] from all the manufactures
I usually go this route to expand info for a certain fire arm that I own and not get overloaded with info for firearms I don't have

SnoHam13

33 year old Rockchucker press, 40+ year old Mec 600 jr [still going strong]

Offline Steve Cover

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 414
  • Karma: 60
  • Mr. C ..... Das Ugly Mutt
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2013, 09:41:01 AM »
<<< SNIP>>>
33 year old Rockchucker press, 40+ year old Mec 600 jr [still going strong]
I finally wore out my MEC 600 a couple of years ago.
Naturally I replaced it with another one... Great press.

The one book one cartridge series is a good one.

Excellent suggestion.

Steve

Offline Steve Cover

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 414
  • Karma: 60
  • Mr. C ..... Das Ugly Mutt
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2013, 09:48:42 AM »
<<< SNIP >>>
 then i would really like to get into casting my own bullets.
<<< SNIP >>>
Bullet casing is a real money saver.
I've been scrounging scrap lead for over 50 years.
I'm shooting 38 wad cutter ammunition cheaper than I can buy 22 long rifle.

Unfortunately, that is the major problem with reloading.

You never really save money because you shoot so much more.
LOL

Steve
Steve

Offline SnoHam13

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: 5
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2013, 10:22:29 AM »
Bullet casing is a real money saver.
I've been scrounging scrap lead for over 50 years.
I'm shooting 38 wad cutter ammunition cheaper than I can buy 22 long rifle.

Unfortunately, that is the major problem with reloading.

You never really save money because you shoot so much more.
LOL

Steve
Steve

ayup  I cast & use my 32/40 to hunt rabbits,,cheaper than 22 just wish there was more data out there for it
next going to do swagged round ball for it

SnoHam13

endurance

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2013, 10:49:43 AM »
I used to reload and will eventually get back into it, but for different reasons.  When I started I had a single stage rock chucker and reloaded primarily 9mm for training and practice.  I also did some .380 and .223 for the same reason.  I reloaded 30-06 and 7mm-08 for precision.  That was what the press was best for.  While I could sit down and manufacture about 160 rounds in a single sitting, it took a lot of time.  Usually I'd spend one session just depriming and resizing my brass.  Another day I'd inspect, clean, trim and reprime away from my press (using a hand primer) while upstairs with my wife (my press was in the basement).  Another session I'd bell my brass.  And finally I might load 320 (two trays) in one session.

In 1997 someone broke into my storage unit while I was between homes and I lost all my reloading equipment (along with and entire safe full of guns, of which I've recovered two).

Nowadays I have less time I want to dedicate to reloading.  While I did really enjoy reloading then, now my time is pulled in more directions.  I have more obligations, but I also have more interests (gardening, my dogs, a wife that I actually like this time, etc.), so I won't get another single stage press.  That's why it has taken me this long to decide to get back into reloading in the first place.  Until recently I could reload cheaper than my time was worth and I didn't mind spending $160 for a 1000 rounds of 9mm.  Well, that's not possible anymore and as a result, I'm shooting less.  I miss shooting, so I need to pick up a Dillon 550, 650 or square deal.  I'd lean toward the square deal at this point because I shoot 80% of the time just 9mm and it's a lot cheaper.  For the amount of .308, .270 and .223 I shoot, I think buying a few hundred rounds a year would make more sense.  At one point I did the pay off calculation for a 650 when ammo was cheap.  It would have taken 20k rounds of 9mm or 8k rounds of .223.  Now that pay off is closer to 10k rounds of 9mm, which for me is approaching two or three years, which makes more sense.  If I go with a square deal and focus just on 9mm, it might be down to 6-7k rounds. 

YMMV, but that's my math.

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »
i would love to go the progressive route, but i can't justify the expense right now with how much i shoot. now if i start shooting more and can justify the upfront cost then i will go that route. for now i am really leaning towards a turret press and if that's the only press i ever own, i'm sure i'll be happy with it.

where do you guys buy your gear from online (the only local place for me is a sportmans)? i have been reading through the lyman manual and i know i'll need a few things. i'm thinking of starting to pick up different accessories like trays and tumblers as time and money permit to start getting what i need. i'm not sure what press i will end up with yet, but i know i'll need those other items. plus i have a ton of saved brass that i could actually start cleaning and inspecting now before i even get a press.

and one more specific question, what do you guys use for a case trimmer? when i almost bought a used press a while back it had a the RCBS version of this style trimmer:



my friend who has reloaded for years had nothing good to say about that style. he said it never held true for him and was always slipping. he was having to constantly adjust it which ended up wasting more time. i think he is using something else now to trim his cases, i forgot to ask him about it this morning when i saw him.

nelson96

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2013, 12:37:30 PM »
what do you guys use for a case trimmer?

The research I had done led me to the Forster.  I haven't used it yet though (waiting to get my new reloading room done).

Offline SnoHam13

  • Senior Survivalist
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
  • Karma: 5
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2013, 01:05:32 PM »
i would love to go the progressive route, but i can't justify the expense right now with how much i shoot. now if i start shooting more and can justify the upfront cost then i will go that route. for now i am really leaning towards a turret press and if that's the only press i ever own, i'm sure i'll be happy with it.

where do you guys buy your gear from online (the only local place for me is a sportmans)? i have been reading through the lyman manual and i know i'll need a few things. i'm thinking of starting to pick up different accessories like trays and tumblers as time and money permit to start getting what i need. i'm not sure what press i will end up with yet, but i know i'll need those other items. plus i have a ton of saved brass that i could actually start cleaning and inspecting now before i even get a press.

and one more specific question, what do you guys use for a case trimmer? when i almost bought a used press a while back it had a the RCBS version of this style trimmer:



my friend who has reloaded for years had nothing good to say about that style. he said it never held true for him and was always slipping. he was having to constantly adjust it which ended up wasting more time. i think he is using something else now to trim his cases, i forgot to ask him about it this morning when i saw him.

I have the old style RCBS trimmer [the one that has 4 collets that are stepped to hold the case]
back in the day of ''wildcatting'' 30 & 357 Herrett it held the cases just fine with a 1/2'' drill hooked up to the cutter
as long as ya didn't horse it they came out nice

SnoHam13

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2013, 03:47:42 PM »
well, that's two votes for the style my friend was bashing, maybe he had a dud or a cheapo brand. i didn't ask.

Offline NWPilgrim

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1605
  • Karma: 114
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2013, 04:22:28 AM »
For trimming cases I really like the L.E. Wilson trimmer with stand and Sharkfin holder by Sinclair.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/case-trimming/case-trimmers/sinclair-wilson-case-trimmer-and-kits-prod36320.aspx

The Wilson trimmer uses case holders that hold the case body so it trims perfectly concentric and it trims from case head to neck for very precise COL.  Unfortunately the price has gone up a lot on these and what I bought for about $60 is now over $100. Plus you have to buy a case holder for each family of cartridges at $10 each.

But recently Lee came out with a low cost idea that is working very well for me, too.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/case-trimming/case-trimmers/lee-deluxe-quick-trim-case-trimmer-prod56328.aspx

The Lee Deluxe Quick Trim uses a press mounted die so you adjust the die for the COL you want, and then the trimmer slides into the top of the die and you rotate the handle.  This is the least expensive method I have tried that gives very good control, accurate and faster than most other manual methods.  The Trimmer is about $15, and I think the dies for each cartridge are about $10.  This the route I would go if I was starting out and knew then what I know now.

Offline hillclimber

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Karma: 28
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2013, 06:06:17 AM »
My case trimmer looks just like the one in your picture (other than the color). I't's either a Lee, or a Lyman. At any rate, it's worked very well for me for many years. Reloading is all about attention to detail. If you take the time to set the trimmer up correctly, you should be all set.
My reloading equipment is a mixed up hodge-podge of manufacturers. If you start out small, and pick stuff up a little at a time that's what you end up with. I think I'm up to like 16 different calibers now, but I'd still like to add a couple more (30carbine, and 45-70govt).
Handloading is one of my favorite hobbies, but it isn't for everyone.
I'm also a big fan of the old C press. My favorite is an old Lyman Spartan. At one point I had 3 or 4 presses, one was even a turret press, but I sold off a lot of the stuff I didn't use. I also did some trading with other people who also reload.
I pick up manuals every time I see them at used bookstores and yard sales. You would be surprised how often you can find them on the cheap.
Reloading can be expensive to get into if you buy everything all at once, and looking back, I guess I have a lot of money in my stuff, but if you take it a little at a time and get into it slowly it won't hurt as much.
Start with one or two simple calibers, learn and add on gradually. More than once I've bought someone's whole setup because they thought they wanted to start reloading, and either didn't like it or bit off more than they could chew.

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 06:33:18 AM »
here's another question i just thought of: would you start with pistol or rifle first? i'm probably only going to reload one caliber to start. it will either be 9mm or 223/5.56 (i know there's a difference, i have mixed brass of both). those are the two i shoot the most, but i only want to start with one to keep things as simple as possible.

Offline hillclimber

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1093
  • Karma: 28
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 07:14:32 AM »
I'd start out with a straight walled pistol cartridge. More forgiving to start out with. You could also get started with less equipment if you go that route. I started out with 45acp, 44mag and 38/357. My first rifle round was 30-30.
If you're starting out with a pistol round like 9mm, you won't need some of the stuff that you'll eventually end up buying anyway. LOL ;D

endurance

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 08:40:01 AM »
I'd start out with a straight walled pistol cartridge. More forgiving to start out with. You could also get started with less equipment if you go that route. I started out with 45acp, 44mag and 38/357. My first rifle round was 30-30.
If you're starting out with a pistol round like 9mm, you won't need some of the stuff that you'll eventually end up buying anyway. LOL ;D
Agreed.  Straight walled are a bit more forgiving.

That said, if you're training a lot with the .223, you'll get a quicker return on investment from that because the price is higher.

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2013, 08:47:38 AM »
cool, then 9mm it is, also good to know i can start with less. that will help to spread the cost over time. i'd love to train with the 5.56 more, but in reality i carry my pistol everyday, so that is what should get the most training, IMO.

endurance

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2013, 09:41:51 AM »
cool, then 9mm it is, also good to know i can start with less. that will help to spread the cost over time. i'd love to train with the 5.56 more, but in reality i carry my pistol everyday, so that is what should get the most training, IMO.
Absolutely!  The odds of ever needing a rifle in self-defense are nearly zero compared to needing a handgun in self-defense. 

Offline NWPilgrim

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1605
  • Karma: 114
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 01:22:30 PM »
Yes, straight wall handgun cartridges are a breeze to reload. Virtually no need for case prep such as primer pocket swaging (military rifle cases), no trimming, no lube needed with carbide dies (most common in pistol dies), and you don't need to fine tune for extreme accuracy (sorting cases by weight/headstamp, measuring runout, measuring headspace and distance ogive is from the lands) because at 5-25 yds a lot of loading variations are insignificant.

And it is simpler and safer from the case inspection perspective as well.  As long as you double-check your powder chargin to ensure you don't leave out the powder (squibs) or double charge, the striaght wall case will almost always fail as a crack in the case mouth which is very easy to see and if missed is still very minor and causes no safety issues.

For pistol reloading you can just tumble clean, resize/decap, prime, charge, seat and crimp as appropriate (taper for pistol, roll for revolver).

I would suggest starting with the popular bullet weights in FMJ or LRN and common powders so you have lots of load data references available.  For 9mm that would be either 115 gr or 147 gr bullets and powders such as AA5, Universal, Power Pistol, Silhouette, Unique, etc.  Start simple and then when you have a specific reason to do so, experiment with other components or methods.

endurance

  • Guest
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 01:38:43 PM »
Oh, one thought nobody's mentioned yet; you have a Glock, right?  If so, you'll need an aftermarket barrel to reload since the factory barrel doesn't fully support the brass.  I'm not a Glock guy, but from my understanding it's an easy upgrade that one of the Glock guys should be able to line you out on.

Offline theBINKYhunter

  • Does not fall well with plastic guns...
  • Global Moderator
  • Survival Veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 5915
  • Karma: 181
  • Not a tactical baddass
Re: Single Stage or Turret?
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 03:46:50 PM »
Oh, one thought nobody's mentioned yet; you have a Glock, right?  If so, you'll need an aftermarket barrel to reload since the factory barrel doesn't fully support the brass.  I'm not a Glock guy, but from my understanding it's an easy upgrade that one of the Glock guys should be able to line you out on.

springfield xd, it'll eat anything ;D