Author Topic: Drought emergency declared in California  (Read 50362 times)

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #120 on: April 05, 2015, 10:13:54 PM »
Yet the pillaging by Nestle of water from aquifers near Sacramento continues:

http://www.mintpressnews.com/nestle-continues-stealing-worlds-water-during-drought/203544/

Yeah, we do not need any more canals destroying this ecosystem just to send ti somewhwere else -- but they have more money.

ANd, yes, Nestle bottled water takes more water than Fracking.....

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #121 on: April 06, 2015, 01:02:49 AM »
This map is interesting as you can roll over a water district to see water usages, and for those who say it depends on location, you can see circles in the same area with vastly different usages, so it is not a climatic reason. Usually it is amount of landscaping (ie., money).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/01/us/water-use-in-california.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

The usual gripe by me would be that Hollywood usages more than 3x as much water per capita, and does so on water sent down from the San Francisco Bay Delta region. I live outside of but close to Santa Cruz.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #122 on: April 06, 2015, 03:49:42 AM »
Only 12% of CA water usage is residential, according to that NYT map. That's a really tiny piece of pie.


Offline bcksknr

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #123 on: April 06, 2015, 07:37:03 AM »
     According to this mornings CBS News, CA agriculture is 2% of that states economy, yet uses 80% of the water. Apparently they have one year of reservoir water left, at current usage. Agriculture depends on draining the fresh water aquifer through pumping, which causes salt water to rise and poison the soil. As of now, growers have been given a pass on water restrictions imposed by Governor Brown. Still many acres have been left fallow because of water shortage and price. CA produces the majority of our fresh fruits and vegetables. If the drought continues, they won't be able to and we will have to look elsewhere for produce.
     Of course this has nothing to do with climate change, and we have been assured that even if the climate patterns are changing (which is undeniable), human activity isn't responsible, so we have nothing to worry about. Also, the corporations who own the politicians who make the decisions that could start to halt the environmental destruction (that might keep food on the table in the future), need to maintain their bottom line. Right up to the end.

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #124 on: April 06, 2015, 08:35:32 AM »
The usual gripe by me would be that Hollywood usages more than 3x as much water per capita, and does so on water sent down from the San Francisco Bay Delta region.

That reminded me of a line from LA Story..
"Sara: Roland thinks L.A. is a place for the brain-dead. He says, if you turned off the sprinklers, it would turn into a desert."

Of course that's because Southern California is a desert.

LA also gets their water from the Owens Valley.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #125 on: April 06, 2015, 09:01:30 AM »
If the drought continues, they won't be able to and we will have to look elsewhere for produce.

Why do you think I have been putting in commercial greenhouses? I have seen this coming for 3-4years now?

Cedar

Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #126 on: April 06, 2015, 09:20:29 AM »
The tragedy of the California water shortages is that the drought conditions have been largely aggravated by California and Federal policies that have halted the building of reservoirs and water viaduct systems x 20 yrs. and dictated who gets the water.  I've heard estimates that up to 70% of California's rainwater is washed out to sea.

During that same period of time the population of the state has approximately doubled.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #127 on: April 06, 2015, 10:26:15 AM »
The tragedy of the California water shortages is that the drought conditions have been largely aggravated by California and Federal policies that have halted the building of reservoirs and water viaduct systems x 20 yrs. and dictated who gets the water.  I've heard estimates that up to 70% of California's rainwater is washed out to sea.

During that same period of time the population of the state has approximately doubled.

It is not a tragedy, we do not want more aquaducts taking water south ---

If you saw what it has  done up here you would realy know why

The tragedy is that we thouhgt we could engineer the system this much to begin with

the solution is to spread out the people and agricuture more


Offline bcksknr

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #128 on: April 06, 2015, 10:33:29 AM »
     I live in the Great Lakes Area and am thankful that the states bordering the Great Lakes have compacts to limit the exploitation of our fresh water resources. I'm sure that Las Vegas and Los Angeles would love to have a pipeline to Lake Michigan. As a comedian once said, "We have deserts, we just don't f_____g live in them". I guess he was wrong. Let the water wars begin.

Online David in MN

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #129 on: April 06, 2015, 11:09:24 AM »
     I live in the Great Lakes Area and am thankful that the states bordering the Great Lakes have compacts to limit the exploitation of our fresh water resources. I'm sure that Las Vegas and Los Angeles would love to have a pipeline to Lake Michigan. As a comedian once said, "We have deserts, we just don't f_____g live in them". I guess he was wrong. Let the water wars begin.

We're forecast for a dry year too, though. I will admit the states up here have acted better in preserving our water. Maybe CA just needs the iron fist of MN's DNR? I'm pretty sure once your land is declared a wetland you can't even look at it cross-eyed.

But comparing the LA River to our beloved lakes and streams smacks a little unfair. Just look at what our runoff has done to the Mississippi. Maybe we're better or maybe we have a little more slack in the line.

Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #130 on: April 06, 2015, 11:43:45 AM »
It is not a tragedy, we do not want more aquaducts taking water south ---

If you saw what it has  done up here you would realy know why

The tragedy is that we thouhgt we could engineer the system this much to begin with

the solution is to spread out the people and agricuture more

So you don't think it is a tragedy that state and federal policies have had a hand in creating this water disaster in California?  Ok.........

As for California's aquaduct system, yes, I have seen it.  ( I had a brainfart and typed viaduct.) Just as I have seen the concreted systems that take the rainfall out of the cities to the ocean instead of diverting them for landscape and reservoir absorption.

There are many solutions that can be implemented both large and small scale.  In no way did my previous post suggest that Californian or federal government policies continue on perpetrating more of the same practices that have brought the water resources to this point of depletion.

nkawtg

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #131 on: April 06, 2015, 12:13:44 PM »
Just as I have seen the concreted systems that take the rainfall out of the cities to the ocean instead of diverting them for landscape and reservoir absorption.

All of Las Vegas's storm drains flow to several washes which flow to Lake Mead. Nearly all of our waste water, once treated, flows to Lake Mead. Some treated waste water is piped to our golf courses and roadway landscape irrigation.
So we give back a large portion of the water we take out of the lake.
Unfortunately the water that is slated to be pumped from Central Nevada will also find its way into Lake Mead rather than back to Central Nevada.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #132 on: April 06, 2015, 02:36:53 PM »
So you don't think it is a tragedy that state and federal policies have had a hand in creating this water disaster in California?  Ok.........

As for California's aquaduct system, yes, I have seen it.  ( I had a brainfart and typed viaduct.) Just as I have seen the concreted systems that take the rainfall out of the cities to the ocean instead of diverting them for landscape and reservoir absorption.

There are many solutions that can be implemented both large and small scale.  In no way did my previous post suggest that Californian or federal government policies continue on perpetrating more of the same practices that have brought the water resources to this point of depletion.

There are some things that can be done, but you said that the policies of not building more aquaducts has caused this -- and it IS true that Californians decided NOT to build phase II of the california water project. But, most of California did not want this to happen. Most areas (not most of the population) does not think we can build our way out of a problem that was caused by overbuilding. So, the state government did want to build more reservoirs and canals to bring more water to central valley and southern California, but a consortum of Native Americans, Northern Ca fishermen (commercial fishermen), Northern Ca commercial farmers and environmentalists all worked together to get it NOT to happen. There are alot of areas that would suffer to build more and send more south.

It is not seeing the aquaducts that shows the problem, it is seeing what the land that now is no longer getting its own water has been reduced to that shows the problem. The central valley of California was not a desert before we started, it was a huge natural wet land, most of it. Tulare Lake was larger than Lake Tahoe. We destroyed alot of fisheries and farmland to move this water.

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #133 on: April 06, 2015, 06:28:33 PM »
All of Las Vegas's storm drains flow to several washes which flow to Lake Mead. Nearly all of our waste water, once treated, flows to Lake Mead. Some treated waste water is piped to our golf courses and roadway landscape irrigation.
So we give back a large portion of the water we take out of the lake.
Unfortunately the water that is slated to be pumped from Central Nevada will also find its way into Lake Mead rather than back to Central Nevada.

Not only that, but Vegas has and always will know that it is first and foremost a desert.  With a few exceptions, we've never really pretended to be anything else.  So we've developed a culture that includes being careful with water from the very beginning.

Offline 16onRockandRoll

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #134 on: April 08, 2015, 02:08:28 PM »
The BDCP aquaducts are not entirely a bad idea.  The idea isn't just to pipe more water to SoCal, but to do it in a way that would have less negative impact to the Delta.  My problem with it is not so much the building of it, but the sizing of it.  It is sized quite a bit larger than current demands ( It has been a while since I researched it, but I seem to remember it could flow something like 50% more than the current system). I don't like what it signifies to LA about their water usage.  That we will just keep sending more and more to them, so stay the course.  The water now is being drawn by MASSIVE pumps on the south end of the Delta, which pulls saline water up from the ocean, and salts the Delta area farms, and wetlands that used to be freshwater dominated.  That said, I think we have just hit a point of too many people placing demands on the natural system.  Anything we do at this point is just a bandaid.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2015, 09:08:24 AM »
California only has around a year's worth of water left
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-california.html?_r=0

Cedar

endurance

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #136 on: May 03, 2015, 10:52:30 AM »
I was watching something on TV about the Hoover Dam and right now Lake Mead is only 34' above losing the upper intakes.  If it goes below that point, so goes power production and the intakes for diverting water to Las Vegas.  I didn't watch the whole show, so I don't know how much credibility there is to that, but the very idea of it is frightening.

Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #137 on: May 03, 2015, 11:33:58 AM »
I was watching something on TV about the Hoover Dam and right now Lake Mead is only 34' above losing the upper intakes.  If it goes below that point, so goes power production and the intakes for diverting water to Las Vegas.  I didn't watch the whole show, so I don't know how much credibility there is to that, but the very idea of it is frightening.

Some info. here:  http://www.utilitydive.com/news/hoover-dam-the-drought-and-a-looming-energy-crisis/281133/

Quote
  It was previously necessary for Lake Mead to have at least a 1,050 foot water level for Hoover Dam to generate but new, higher-efficiency turbines and controls that make the dam "more efficient than any time in its historyā€¯ will soon make it possible to revise the minimum water level to 950 feet.     


 http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/planetpolicy/posts/2015/05/02-water-crisis-lake-mead-mulroy

endurance

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #138 on: May 03, 2015, 11:46:45 AM »
So it hit a new record low this weekend and is expected to continue to drop until June, when Lake Powell releases are expected to help until next year.  The critical level is 1050', below which it appears Las Vegas, which gets 90% of its water from Lake Mead, will cease getting water.  It is currently at 1080' and dropping about one foot per week and is expected to reach 1073' this year.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/water-environment/lake-mead-water-levels-records-continue-fall

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #139 on: May 03, 2015, 03:51:59 PM »
So it hit a new record low this weekend and is expected to continue to drop until June, when Lake Powell releases are expected to help until next year.  The critical level is 1050', below which it appears Las Vegas, which gets 90% of its water from Lake Mead, will cease getting water.  It is currently at 1080' and dropping about one foot per week and is expected to reach 1073' this year.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/water-environment/lake-mead-water-levels-records-continue-fall

Yeah, it's pretty serious.  This has been in the works for quite a while.

Quote
The Southern Nevada Water Authority hopes to have its new, $817 million deep-water intake on line by the end of September.

Vegas has already reduced its water use to levels well below what they're expected to require in California.  We've always known we lived in the desert, but apparently that's not the case everywhere.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #140 on: May 08, 2015, 02:44:44 AM »
Freak storm blew in today from Canada.  It's pouring out there right now, and should leave some snow in the mountains, but we'll be back to 90 degrees by Monday.  Weird.

endurance

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #141 on: May 08, 2015, 05:23:52 AM »
Freak storm blew in today from Canada.  It's pouring out there right now, and should leave some snow in the mountains, but we'll be back to 90 degrees by Monday.  Weird.
If I could hook up a long enough hose to my sump pump right now I could singlehandedly refill your state's reserviors right now. ::)

Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #142 on: May 08, 2015, 08:20:44 AM »
Freak storm blew in today from Canada.  It's pouring out there right now,

The rain woke me up at 3:30 this morning.  It's funny - I used to live under an airport flight path, then I moved and now I live under a freeway overpass.  None of that noise has ever bothered me.  It's just part of the usual background.  But when it rains, it wakes me up.  It's because it is so rare!  (San Diego)

The rain stopped for my morning commute this morning.  But the further west I drove, the darker it got.  I pulled into the parking lot and quickly gathered my stuff and it started sprinkling as I approached my door.  It's pounding the metal roof now.  I just missed it.  So this should probably go on The Good Thread!   :)

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #143 on: May 08, 2015, 05:29:43 PM »
If I could hook up a long enough hose to my sump pump right now I could singlehandedly refill your state's reserviors right now. ::)

We'd probably even pay you for it.

endurance

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #144 on: May 08, 2015, 06:27:45 PM »
We'd probably even pay you for it.
It rained most of the day today.  Now we're expecting 10-20" of wet spring snow on Saturday night, followed by a week in the 60s with afternoon thunderstorms.  I suspect we're going to see some pretty significant flooding across the Front Range.  Good news for our fire danger, bad news for California, Nevada, et al.  The Front Range water flows east, not west.

endurance

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #145 on: July 06, 2015, 08:39:13 AM »
Las Vegas' last straw is nearly complete.

http://news.yahoo.com/las-vegas-completing-last-straw-draw-lake-mead-051409517.html

In inflation-adjusted dollars, this one tunnel cost as much as the original dam.  Of course when the dam was built gasoline was also $0.17, minimum wage was $0.25, and worker safety wasn't exactly a priority. 

Now all they need is record snowfall in the Rockies and Wind Rivers for the next five or ten years so they don't have to impose the cuts mandated if the water level drops below 1075'. :o

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #146 on: July 06, 2015, 06:28:22 PM »
What kills me is that the lowered use being required of other states, the ones they find so traumatizing, are still usually way above what we've been doing for years.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2015, 06:22:15 PM »

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #148 on: July 20, 2015, 01:06:57 AM »
Well, it's not just me who thought two days in row of rain was weird.  This has now been declared the wettest July in SoCal history.

http://www.weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/southwest-flood-threat-july-2015-tropical-storm-hurricane-dolores

Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Drought emergency declared in California
« Reply #149 on: July 20, 2015, 05:31:29 AM »
Bridge along I-10 near Desert Center collapses from heavy rain.

Quote
"Interstate 10 is closed completely and indefinitely," said Terri Kasinga, spokeswoman for the California Department of Transportation


http://news.yahoo.com/storms-close-beaches-causes-power-outages-california-074424024.html#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4jhh1z_Ewo