Author Topic: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter  (Read 8913 times)

Offline pola bear

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ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« on: March 19, 2014, 02:21:29 PM »
got any good book recommendations (or other resources) on the whole ADHD/ritalin thing?

before i woke up to the matrix in which we live, through SoLA, ~11/2012, i worried my middle daughter had adhd.
my wife, pooh-pooh'd the idea
thankfully, she has outgrown it.

now,
2 years later, wifey is worried our youngest daughter, now 8 y.o., has ADD
i, now awakened to TPTB, big pharma, etc, . . . would be exceedingly hesitant to start her on something (ritalin, concerta, vyvanse, etc) that she may be on for life, or could have life-long (potentially negative) consequences, even if she were only only short term.

off the hip - i think ADD, ADHD gets way over diagnosed and hence over treated
on the other hand, i know of people who DO do better in school, on the meds

i want to get myself educated before she starts pushing the issue harder.
thanks
pola

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 02:44:52 PM »
My son was diagnosed with speech appraxia when he was 18 months old.  While he's overcome almost all symptoms today (now 10 years old), there was a long while  where he exhibited ADHD like symptoms.

For a while we had him on concerta.  It did help with "compliance" in the classroom, but frankly he acted like an asshole to everyone after school.  It was almost like a dose of sociopath, where he'd say really hurtful things to my wife, me and our daughter.

Today we just try to make sure he gets plenty of sleep, and to structure certain things to limit anxiety.

Offline TNVolunteer

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 02:48:15 PM »
I don't have any input on this other than that I am the father of an young daughter I love very much.  I will send some good vibes/thoughts/prayers your way.  May you have discretion, guidance, and wisdom. 

Offline PorcupineKate

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 03:13:38 PM »
I know two families that saw huge changes in their children by cutting artificial coloring in food.  Getting the dyes out of the diet made a huge difference.

Another friend had her son tested for food allergies and sensitivities.  Cutting out the foods that her son has sensitivities calmed him down dramatically.   

These 3 families basically cook everything from scratch but everyone is calmer and happier.

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 03:52:10 PM »
I try to keep the artificial everything out of our diets, and one thing I have noticed with my older son - his reaction to screen time.  When he was 3 we noticed that even 30 min of tv would set him off for an hour. 

personally, I have been told many times that my son acts like my friend's kids who have ADHD, and that medication would help with the problems I have with him.  We have not gotten him tested, we do not plan on it, and we are hoping that we can train him out of it before he is an adult without coping skills if his meds run out.

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 04:08:26 PM »
I'm generally a pretty comfortable guy with western medicine and western medical solutions to many problems, but IMHO, ADD and ADHD treatment of kids is something I'm really suspicious of.  I really don't know if I can tell you what direction I'd look for solutions, but MS might be on the right track.  Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac4ijed4nj0 between minute 15-21.  It really rattled me.  I think he's truly onto something.  Something is going on here, but I don't think anyone wants to put the time, money or research into discovering something that should be obvious; TV isn't really all that good for kids.

Good luck.

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 05:15:44 PM »
I would recommend exploring all other reasonable solutions before medication.  There are several conditions that are apparently similar, but which are sometimes mis-diagnosed as one-another.  ADHD, Aspergers (now a part of the Autistic Spectrum), Dyslexia, and even being academically gifted (leading to boredom and attention span problems).

Further, young children are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD if they don't get sufficient rest, or sufficient physical activity through-out the day (to burn off excess nervous energy).

You may consider changes to diet (less cafine, less sugar, possibly eliminating wheat or dairy), or having specific allergy testing done.  Often, removing an allergen from the child's environment can reduce undesirable symptoms that were diagnosed as a behavioural disorder.  Sometimes a person can have problems absorbing a certain nutrient in their diet, and so re-arranging the diet to ease that absorption, or simple vitamins can make a large difference.

In other words, taking the time to get to know the situation your child is in, and making sure that you treat ancillary conditions that can have a negative impact on your child can create vast improvements before medication is even considered.

If your child has poor skills at coping with a particular situation, getting skills counselling from a specialist may help as well.

Only after all of these issues would I even consider medication as a long-term solution, particularly medication that wasn't also paired with counselling of some sort.

Offline Gulo gulo

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 02:16:55 AM »
I wasn't diagnosed with add til I was an adult thanks to homeschooling. Tried taking the drugs, they worked but I didn't think it was that great of an improvement, I had learned to deal with it by then. Plus I was worried about the link between psychological medications and mass shooing and other tragic incidents. Decided I didn't want the risk and didn't want to give up my guns either (me huge shooting sports lover). I don't think putting kids on these meds is a good idea at all. I think it negatively affects their brain growth. a lot of these "mass shooters" have been on psychoactive drugs since adolescence or earlier. I would echo what others have said about diet and exercise; I know my worst symptoms that I have come to understand were add-like were when I was eating crap like peanut butter and brown sugar sandwiches (lol I was a teenager, gimme a break!).

Offline theBINKYhunter

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 02:02:33 PM »
not sure if a new thread should be started... but at what age is it 'appropriate' to diagnose something like ADD/ADHD? (like others, i think it is way over diagnosed, kids are kids!)

i ask because my wife and i were talking about this just lat night about my almost 5 year old boy. he is very easily distracted and has a hard time focusing on certain tasks. sometimes he's great, other times doing anything is impossible. part of me thinks it's because he's a young boy, but i also wonder if he does have something else going on. we've really started limiting the TV time and i think we're going to cut it down even more.

the food dyes are something to look at also. both my wife and i are very anti medication, and i doubt i'll ever take him to get 'tested' since i think the majority of young kids that are excited/active could get hit with this diagnosis...

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 02:05:24 PM »
Warrior,

If you do get him tested for something, I'd start with alergies.  If he's alergic to cow's milk, and he sees an improvement after switching to goat milk, you're improving his condition simply by feeding him better stuff.  The tesing there is just to know what direction to make modifications to the diet/environment.

Offline theBINKYhunter

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 02:22:01 PM »
i can see diet testing, i was referring to testing for medication.

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2014, 02:27:26 PM »
I figured that's what you were talking about, but figured I'd expand on the testing subject.

Offline theBINKYhunter

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2014, 02:56:38 PM »
I'm generally a pretty comfortable guy with western medicine and western medical solutions to many problems, but IMHO, ADD and ADHD treatment of kids is something I'm really suspicious of.  I really don't know if I can tell you what direction I'd look for solutions, but MS might be on the right track.  Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac4ijed4nj0 between minute 15-21.  It really rattled me.  I think he's truly onto something.  Something is going on here, but I don't think anyone wants to put the time, money or research into discovering something that should be obvious; TV isn't really all that good for kids.

Good luck.

i watched the video and i can confirm what he was saying about the attitudes, but not with my kids - with me personally. i used to be a HUGE gamer, that's right, i was a gamer *gasp*. i had a PS3 and if i had free time that's what i did. i played a ton as a teenager, i mean, i had certain games that logged how long you played and many of them were close to or over 100 hours of play time... and i wore that like a badge of honor. when i lived at home my dad would tell me i was acting like a jerk, and we've spoken about it since then as well. he told me he could see it in my attitude, when i played a bunch i was a jerk, but it directly related to a couple of games, not all of them...

fast forward to a few years ago, i got back into gaming and turned into a huge jerk again. i was big into online first person shooters and would stay up until one or two in the morning playing, and then getting up at four or five to go to work. i would try to convince my wife on a nightly basis that she looked tired and should go to bed, not because i cared for her well being, but because it meant i could get online and start playing.

eventually i realized what i was doing and what i was allowing to happen to me and i gave everything away. went cold turkey, and what do you know? life improved in my home and so did my relationship. if playing games affects an adult that much, imagine what it does to a kid/child with less willpower/understanding of what is going on?

Offline busymomx3

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2014, 03:36:36 PM »
I didn't read all the replys, but have heard from many people that diet has a large affect on add/ADHD. Paleo, clean real food seems to be key. Reducing processed foods. Good luck.

Offline AvenueQ

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 03:43:15 PM »
i watched the video and i can confirm what he was saying about the attitudes, but not with my kids - with me personally. i used to be a HUGE gamer, that's right, i was a gamer *gasp*. i had a PS3 and if i had free time that's what i did. i played a ton as a teenager, i mean, i had certain games that logged how long you played and many of them were close to or over 100 hours of play time... and i wore that like a badge of honor. when i lived at home my dad would tell me i was acting like a jerk, and we've spoken about it since then as well. he told me he could see it in my attitude, when i played a bunch i was a jerk, but it directly related to a couple of games, not all of them...

The most infuriating punishment my mom could inflict when I was younger was "no screens" (which included TV, video games, and the computer). I remember being furious when she brought that one out, usually when I was a little s#!thead after playing games all day (or when I was ignoring my homework).

I still play occasionally, but I do notice that I still get just as wound up as when I was younger. I just have more self-control now and am able to actually put down the controller when it gets out of hand.

Offline theBINKYhunter

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2014, 10:51:26 PM »
I still play occasionally, but I do notice that I still get just as wound up as when I was younger. I just have more self-control now and am able to actually put down the controller when it gets out of hand.

we recently bought an XBOX because it was a good deal and we needed a media center. it was the kinect bundle and we love it. we can play games as a family and have fun (couple times a week, maybe), rather than me being all 'i gotta finish this level in record time!' i do have my own games for it that i play when everyone is asleep, but i play those maybe once a week, and i stay off online, that is when it gets bad for me.

my wife even commented that she's impressed with how well i've been controlling the playing vs what i used to be like. i got her approval which shows i can mature ;D

Offline MTUCache

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2014, 11:26:29 PM »
i ask because my wife and i were talking about this just lat night about my almost 5 year old boy. he is very easily distracted and has a hard time focusing on certain tasks. sometimes he's great, other times doing anything is impossible. part of me thinks it's because he's a young boy, but i also wonder if he does have something else going on. we've really started limiting the TV time and i think we're going to cut it down even more.
As the father of a 6 year old boy and a 3 year old boy... this one hits close to home.

We had a meeting with my oldest's teacher this evening about his behavior at school (outbursts, defiance, etc). Distraction is definitely an issue with him when it comes to television (or anything on a screen). He has friends who's parents have started down the road to medicating their kids.

His teacher literally told me that she's working on getting him to obey first and then ask questions later if he doesn't like it. "Obey first". Direct quote from a first grade teacher... these are six and seven year old boys! They don't do that. Ever. They're not supposed to be wired that way.

I'm a cub scout den leader to a bunch of six year olds. They don't listen, it's natural. Therefore our den meetings are short and sweet. We don't strap them into a chair and force them into doing something until they hate it. We work at their own pace, and do things that keep them interested. Most importantly, we accept the distractions and poor listening ability and just move on. I know elementary teachers are taught to do similar things, so I'm not blaming them directly, but "obey"?? That's a terrible approach to teaching kids.

I'm not going to medicate my son simply so he fits in with their program. You can't spend a decade teaching a boy to be quiet, reserved, and hesitant if you want him to be a man who speaks his mind, is aggressive and accepts risk. I understand that some extreme behaviors may need to be dealt with in a unique way. Everyday "boy" behaviors? I'm sorry... you can't drug my son into complacency simply because you don't feel like teaching anyone but shy, quiet girls.

How many girls are on ADHD medicine? That's the crux of this whole question.... just because somebody has a Y chromosome doesn't mean they have a chemical imbalance in their brain that needs to be "adjusted". This can't apply to just boys. Sorry. Either change your teaching methods or change your expectations about their behavior.

Boys are going to have tantrums. They're going to get into scrapes. They're going to disrupt class and be defiant when you ask them to do something they don't want to. Those boys grow up into men who don't just accept whatever bullshit is shoveled at them. They pursue alternative solutions. They ask questions. I understand that doesn't always fit into a classroom, and that the disconnect that causes is tough to manage with immature boys. But, once they learn how to manage their emotions this stuff works itself out.

Sorry if this insults anybody or goes against their decisions. I'm not entirely educated about all the chemistry, and I'm certainly not an elementary educator. I accept that I may be wrong about this, but it's going to take a lot more than what I've seen anecdotally to convince me. I've heard of dozens of cases where kids were put on this and it either didn't make much difference in their behavior or it goes too far the other way and they start acting like completely different kids.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 11:33:36 PM by MTUCache »

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2014, 12:28:27 AM »
My youngest daughter definitely had reactions to food coloring when she was very young. I didnt know it for a while, because I am one of those nutty California moms that is into organic, no additives, no food coloring as a norm in the house. SO, we went to a kids birthday party when she was, I dont know, maybe 3 or 4? And they had red vines sitting out. I let her eat one or two, my kids do eat what is there when we are out. The change inher behavior/personality was so, so drastic !! So I kept her away from it. Then on her birthday, I was ill, so actually made a regular grocery store boxed cake, chocolate, and after she had some, same horrible personality change, misbehavior, I went over to the recycle bin and pulled out that betty crocker (or whatever) cake mix box -- right there in the ingredients, red dye #xx . They dye chocolate cake !

So, I've seen it, it is true for sensitive kids. She has some of it now as a teen, she is bigger so it is more dilute and she has more control, no doubt.


Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2014, 08:25:19 AM »
His teacher literally told me that she's working on getting him to obey first and then ask questions later if he doesn't like it. "Obey first". Direct quote from a first grade teacher... these are six and seven year old boys! They don't do that. Ever. They're not supposed to be wired that way.

...

How many girls are on ADHD medicine? That's the crux of this whole question.... just because somebody has a Y chromosome doesn't mean they have a chemical imbalance in their brain that needs to be "adjusted". This can't apply to just boys. Sorry. Either change your teaching methods or change your expectations about their behavior.

This is one of the big issues for those fighting for the rights of men and boys.  The school system is recognized as failing boys, and no one cares or advocates on a national level the way they do for girls.  The definition of "good schoolroom behavior" is tailored to girls as well.  This just teaches boys to hate school.

The current "whole word learning" / memorization approach to reading is bad for both boys and girls, but girls do better learning this way than boys do, and boys learn better with the old phonix based system than girls do, so the "improvement" for girls (relative to boys only, not relative to old methods) is lauded.  I'd rather both boys and girls did better, thank you.

I was home schooled for most of my under-grad career, and I learned to love learning at the hands of a loving mother who made me her primary job for much of my life, and a father who worked his butt off to make sure she could do so, until I and my brother were older (at which point he insisted my mother work at least part time).

Had I been drugged more than I was, and not given the care I needed, I could be flipping burgers right now, instead of working as a well paid software developer.

Offline r_w

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2014, 09:31:59 AM »
Drugs are a LAST resort.  They change brain development in ways we do not yet understand. 

Diet, exercise, sleep, STRUCTURE, challenge.  They need consistent structure and discipline everywhere--mom vs. dad, school vs. home, etc.--all need to be on the same page.  We had some behavior issues with a few of our foster kids.  Once we got the teachers to fire off a text or email (their choice, whatever was easiest) to tell us if there was a problem that day (or particularly good day) so we knew before they got off the bus--the bad behaviors stopped quick. 

Many kids diagnosed with adhd and other behavior issues in school test well above average (higher than their teachers in some categories).  They get bored.  You have to figure out how to make a challenge to them to behave they way they need in school. 

Offline cheryl1

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2014, 10:18:57 PM »
I know two families that saw huge changes in their children by cutting artificial coloring in food.  Getting the dyes out of the diet made a huge difference.

Another friend had her son tested for food allergies and sensitivities.  Cutting out the foods that her son has sensitivities calmed him down dramatically.   

These 3 families basically cook everything from scratch but everyone is calmer and happier.
THIS! I have food additive allergies and if I eat something wrong I can turn into the biggest you-know-what in 3 seconds flat, plus I have trouble concentrating and tracking what's going on around me. And that's with my adult coping skills. I can't imagine the problems I would have had in school if I had been like this as a kid. By eating real food I rarely have this problem anymore.

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2014, 10:54:09 PM »
I had similar problems, which my mother reported would set me off, particularly the stronger alergies.  I underwent treatment to decrease the severity.  I can't entirely avoid all of my allergens, but when I avoid them more rather than less, I have an easier time concentrating, and am able to work much better, be it at work or the dojo.  I've also gotten better coping skills, and I think my sensitivity has decreased over time.


Offline DanielBoone

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Re: ADHD, medicate or not 8.y.o. daughter
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2014, 05:40:25 AM »
I was misdiagnosed with ADD when I was younger.

How behind is your youngest daughter?   Is she in danger of being held back a grade?

Also...sorry I am misunderstanding a bit of your post did you say your middle daughter has outgrown her ADD? Or were you saying your wife has outgrown her resistance to acceping your daughters might have ADD?

I
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 05:51:42 AM by DanielBoone »