Author Topic: Snohomish County, Washington  (Read 16689 times)

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2014, 07:19:26 PM »
WA landslide: Fire chief says expects death toll to rise "very, very much" by Friday morning; latest toll is 16 dead, 90 missing

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Offline busymomx3

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 07:48:11 PM »
This is so tragic. WA and that area have mud slides every year. Not usually so big but not uncommon either. Most people don't pay attention when it's normal.

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2014, 08:46:19 PM »
Quote
In a 2010 report mandated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the county identified the Hazel formation as one that carried the potential for deep-seated landslides, considered the worst of the worst because of their power and size.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-hazel-slide-risk-20140326,0,477127.story#ixzz2xDmmVuXC

Quote
"Nobody told of any of us," Robin Youngblood, 63, said Wednesday on CNN.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-washington-hazel-slide-risk-20140326,0,477127.story#ixzz2xDn5kFku

While I get it, nobody and came knocking on your door and said, "Hey, Lady, ya see that hillside over there?  In about five years it's going to slide on down here and wipe out your home."  To me, the article makes it pretty clear that if you wanted to know about the hazards in your area, all you had to do was do a little poking around.  There were plenty of experts and county officials that were aware there was a significant hazard in the area.  People hear what they want to hear.  They want a nice home by the river with beautiful trees all around and ignore information that might indicate that there's a life threatening hazard.  I hear the same thing when it comes to wildfires.  Before the fire folks will say that they love their home in among the trees.  After the fire they say they didn't know they were so vulnerable.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 09:35:25 PM »
While I get it, nobody and came knocking on your door and said, "Hey, Lady, ya see that hillside over there?  In about five years it's going to slide on down here and wipe out your home."  To me, the article makes it pretty clear that if you wanted to know about the hazards in your area, all you had to do was do a little poking around.  There were plenty of experts and county officials that were aware there was a significant hazard in the area.  People hear what they want to hear.  They want a nice home by the river with beautiful trees all around and ignore information that might indicate that there's a life threatening hazard.  I hear the same thing when it comes to wildfires.  Before the fire folks will say that they love their home in among the trees.  After the fire they say they didn't know they were so vulnerable.

True. "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

And I can just imagine the uproar from those residents if officials had come in and condemned those properties in the slide zone.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2014, 09:32:01 AM »
In hindsight it's easy to think at the macro level and criticize.

Look at the loss of life.
Look at the risk to rescue teams.
Look at the damage to the local economy,
etc.

The problem is, if the risk was limited to an individual, or even a family we wouldn't worry.  Just as we would allow someone to free climb a rock formation, sky dive or other risky activities.


Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2014, 10:24:45 AM »
This 5" of rain is not going to help recovery efforts. Be safe you responders!!!

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2014, 07:28:15 PM »
This is from my former SAR unit CEO and he said "Yes, Please".. when I asked if I could repost this.

-Cedar

Cedar -- ANOTHER REASON WE SHOULD BE SELF-RELIANT...An update from my friend Rep. Scott on the tragedy in Oso. WA. What an encouraging story of great Americans helping their neighbors without depending on (or in spite of) government.
Please pray for them... - HJ





Dear friends,

Thank you for your continued prayers. I spent time in Arlington on Sunday and Monday, and significant time in Darrington every day since Sunday. Watch my Elizabeth Scott facebook page for frequent updates and photos. It is heartbreaking being there when residents have found bodies or pieces of bodies.

I have seen a car flattened like a pop can; only the wheel still attached identified it as a car. This really should be called a 'massive landslide with a mud tsunami.' The mud is 30 feet deep in some places; a man was found in his second-floor bedroom, in his bed, with a flattened car next to him.

That being said, the B.S. is also 30 feet thick and the people of Darrington are having none of it. The political photo-ops, the talking points, the lowballed numbers the first few days--a resident told me his team alone found 12 bodies on Saturday on the southeast side of the slide area but the official number was 3 for that day and the next-- the lack of communication between the Darrington side and the Arlington side are infuriating the citizens and for good reason. It is the citizens who have performed some of the rescues, the finding of many of the bodies, the road construction to open up an east-west route alongside the broken mile and half of Highway 530--yes with their own trucks, graders, excavators and donated gravel--, and they did this without the permission of 'the authorities' but with the blessing of Mayor Dan Rankin who is doing a great job pushing forward and getting things done.

The team on the Darrington side was told that they must get everything cleared through the Arlington EOC, but phone calls are not taken, voice mails not returned, the Darrington team is not even allowed to be on the conference calls, so the Arlington side was using maps that bore no resemblance to the new reality and not getting info from boots on the ground at the actual locations where bodies were being found.

WSDOT trucks and tractors from a pre-slide project sit in the forest along 530 on the Darrington side but nobody will allow the Darrington folks to use them; incredibly frustrating. A call from me to DOT was not returned. It took 3 days for them to get a shower truck for the workers; two days to get portopotties out where workers were.

I want you all to keep this in mind: follow Darrington's example; be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick, nobody wants to be held responsible for picking up the tab for food, water, saw blades, etc. and too many people just cover each other's rears or use it to build each other up, ignoring what really needs to be done.

Look at the article all about the trooper, who was on the side while citizens waded out into the mud ignoring downed power lines in order to get the baby and trapped woman on Saturday. But the article was all about the trooper. Nothing against troopers at all but the media is ignoring the real story here...the resiliance and determination of the people of the Stillaquamish Valley. Pray for them.

Elizabeth Scott
206-330-XXXX
http://houserepublicans.wa.gov/elizabeth-scott/

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2014, 09:52:04 PM »
I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like another politician trying to play the blame game, pointing fingers, but not contributing or taking accountability herself.  Perhaps instead of complaining about the death toll tally she should ask a few questions and she'd probably find out why, which is probably because they want to identify the individuals to make sure people aren't being counted twice.

It's a congress-critter's job to point fingers, but rarely do they understand the purpose of or how the incident command system works, thus, they assume because locals are being left out, there is something wrong.  What they don't understand is that the ICS exists to take the burden off local resources so they can continue to deal with the local issues and have specialists focus on the disaster at hand.  You see this with every major wildfire, too, but it's just the way things work.  If the local department is tied up in the fire, who's going to respond when there's a heart attack on the other side of town?  Who's going to respond to the fire alarm at the school that isn't just burnt grilled cheese this time?  But I wouldn't expect a congress-critter to understand all that.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2014, 10:07:02 PM »
-- the lack of communication between the Darrington side and the Arlington side are infuriating the citizens and for good reason. It is the citizens who have performed some of the rescues, the finding of many of the bodies, the road construction to open up an east-west route alongside the broken mile and half of Highway 530--yes with their own trucks, graders, excavators and donated gravel--,

This is what I got out of it:
I am not surprised in the lack of communication. I am not surprised that citizens are doing alot of the digging.

Most of the SAR groups are volunteer as it is. This thing is huge. I have not heard of other agencies coming in to help.

and..... "be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick."

Cedar

Offline TexasGirl

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2014, 10:25:38 PM »
This is what I got out of it:
I am not surprised in the lack of communication. I am not surprised that citizens are doing alot of the digging.

Most of the SAR groups are volunteer as it is. This thing is huge. I have not heard of other agencies coming in to help.

and..... "be self-reliant and know your community and have a plan; do not depend on government to help you in a crisis. The red tape is thick."

Cedar

At the Bastrop forest fire here in Texas, FEMA waltzed in and said the VFD's had to go home because they weren't paid professionals.  In Rural Texas, these guys are our only firemen, they are well trained, and do an incredible job.  It was very frustrating as the FEMA approved firefighters lost ground without the VFD boots on the ground.

One day later, another fire began in NE Texas, 15,000 acres, but when FEMA showed up, the county sheriff ran them off.  The volunteers along side bath Texas and Louisiana forest service fire crews did just fine without FEMA.

~TG

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2014, 08:45:30 AM »
At the Bastrop forest fire here in Texas, FEMA waltzed in and said the VFD's had to go home because they weren't paid professionals.  In Rural Texas, these guys are our only firemen, they are well trained, and do an incredible job.  It was very frustrating as the FEMA approved firefighters lost ground without the VFD boots on the ground.

One day later, another fire began in NE Texas, 15,000 acres, but when FEMA showed up, the county sheriff ran them off.  The volunteers along side bath Texas and Louisiana forest service fire crews did just fine without FEMA.

~TG
FEMA doesn't actually take over a fire.  A type one or type two incident management team takes over once the local type three or type four team is overwhelmed and can't handle the complexity of the fire.  Once in place, they may use the local resources that are qualified.  That means that if you're going to use an engine, it needs to have a certain capacity for water, hose, gallons per minute, etc.  It also means that the people on the engine have certain training.  They have to pass the pack test at the arduous duty rating, they have to have passes S-130 & S-190 successfully and there needs to be a qualified engine boss (another set of classes including S-290).  Odds are that's why the local resources couldn't be used.  They didn't have wildland training or an engine boss qualified person for the engine.  S-130 & S-190 can be taken on line.  The rest of the classes are available at very low cost, reimbursable by federal grants most of the time, throughout the year.  Why are they necessary?  Because wildland firefighting is nothing like structural firefighting and people who don't know the difference die.  Heck, with all the training in the world people still die, but there's an attempt to minimize it. 

While I'm sure the locals felt left out, it's a system designed to save lives.  The ICS seems like a cumbersome tool, but it's designed to orchestrate control over dangerous and dynamic scenes by putting the folks with the right skills in charge.  On most fires that involves meteorology, logistics, federal contracting, planning, and operations; things that the local VFDs may have no expertise in at all.  The locals always have a choice, but they usually come begging for aid when thing get over 1,000 acres.  Very few local communities have the resources they need for a larger incident.

As for the mudslide stuff, I don't know enough about it to know what the local issues are.  I know it was just on our local news that 12 National Guardsman were just flown up there to help in the rescue and recovery operation, but I don't know what their specialties were.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2014, 07:04:42 PM »
Live Update http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/kiro-live-event-1/vt6Gk/

21 confirmed fatalities, only 16 have been positively ID'd.
After review and analysis, geologists have determined the slide area is about 300 acres

http://www.kirotv.com/news/ap/general/photos-found-at-slide-site-missing-number-drops/nfNs5/
I am surprised that Marty's, Harry's, King County etc dogs are not on this.

Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2014, 12:43:01 AM »
FEMA doesn't actually take over a fire. 

Well, FEMA, or whoever was designated as "federal officials", made the local firefighters "stand down".  It was all over the news that day, actually more than one day.  I've quickly looked through a couple of the TV news archives and apparently it's too old to still be there.  I did find one still on Infowars...  starts about 2:15 into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA


~TG

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2014, 08:15:35 AM »
Well, FEMA, or whoever was designated as "federal officials", made the local firefighters "stand down".  It was all over the news that day, actually more than one day.  I've quickly looked through a couple of the TV news archives and apparently it's too old to still be there.  I did find one still on Infowars...  starts about 2:15 into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzj1K1CRGgA


~TG
I'm not saying they weren't told to go home.  If they didn't have the qualifications required to operate on a federal fire, they should go home.  Why should the feds be on the hook for people who haven't taken the time to receive the proper training and pass the fitness test?  They're a liability on a fire.  Hopefully they've remedied this since and will be prepared for the next big one.  This is why our department requires everyone to complete ICS 100, 200, & 700 along with S-130 & S-190 for every member. 

With the exception of the field day, S-130 & S-190 can be completed on-line http://training.nwcg.gov/courses/130190faq.html 

The higher qualifications, like firefighter I (squad boss), take going to a wildfire academy and completing a taskbook.  Once that is completed, they the higher qualifications like crewboss and engine boss can be completed with additional courses and taskbooks.  If all this seems like too much trouble, try the chaos of a fire with preventable injuries and fatalities on it.  Local resources are great and can make protecting a community a lot easier, but if the locals aren't trained to work with the same standards under the same management system as others, they're a liability.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2014, 07:03:19 PM »
Number of missing from WA landslide revised down from 30 to 22

SR 530 Slide Area Missing Person List
Names Confirmed by Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office

Arlington - The Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit has provided the following list of missing people today. The release of information is limited to name, age and city of residence. Detectives have carefully reviewed each of these cases based on available information and conversations with family members. It is presumed that the people on this list are missing in connection with the landslide. Anyone who should not be on this list is asked to call the Sheriff’s Office tip line immediately at (425) 388-3845.

The Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office will continue to work closely with the Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office and will update this list as new information is made available.

NAME AGE CITY

1. Dequiletts, Ronald M. 52 Arlington and Bothell
2. Durnell, Thomas M. 55 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
3. Gullikson, Bonnie J. 91 SR 530 NE, Arlington
4. Gustafson, Mark J. 54 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
5. Hadaway, Steven N. 53 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
6. Halstead, Jerry L. 74 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
7. Halstead, Gloria J. 67 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
8. Harris, Denver P. 13 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
9. Harris, Steve 52 Arlington
10. Harris, Theresa 52 Arlington
11. Miller, Larry 58 Arlington
12. Miller, Sandra 64 Arlington
13. Regelbrugge, Molly K. 44 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
14. Ruthven, Katie 35 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
15. Ruthven, Wyatt 4 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
16. Satterlee, Thom 64 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
17. Satterlee, Mary 61 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
18. Slauson, Lon E. 59 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
19. Spillers, Billy 30 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
20. Spillers, Brooke 2 Steelhead Dr., Arlington
21. Webb, Delaney M. 19 Steelhead Dr., Arlington (alternate address is Marysville)
22. Mangual, Jovan E. 13 Steelhead Dr., Arlington

Cedar

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2014, 07:08:36 PM »
and right on the heels of that report... they just found three more bodies.

Death toll from WA state landslide rises to 27 after rescue workers locate 3 more bodies, official says

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2014, 08:09:12 PM »
This is just awful.  Do any TSP people live near there?

I live in Darrington.

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2014, 12:17:20 PM »
There are alot of people here in the Santa Cruz mountains that live in houses in much more obvious mud slide danger. Where the houses are built right on the sometimes unstable hillsides. I dont get it, it is a fairly obvious risk, we have lost homes and lives to these - in comparison - littler mud slides in years past.

Unfortunately, that is the case in so many places. The east coast with hurricanes, the midwest with tornados and the west with earthquakes. When people plant they have to face the consequences of the area, whether seen or not. We are all at the mercy of the environment.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2014, 09:07:30 AM »
Death toll from Washington landslide reaches 33
http://bnowire.com/inbox/?id=2301

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Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2014, 06:31:02 PM »
Death toll from Washington landslide reaches 35

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2014, 09:27:24 PM »

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2014, 09:12:58 PM »
A friend just send this to me. The slider thing is ..wow..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-26/washington-mudslide/5346460

Cedar

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2014, 10:29:51 PM »
That realy shows the devastation

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2014, 07:25:34 AM »
Thanks for posting, Cedar. The 1999 Corps report was so telling. Hopefully some folks out there living in high risk areas are reading the same article and taking a look around.

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2014, 12:35:07 AM »
Kudos to the Arlington city for potentially avoiding a secondary complication of contaminated water.

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20140515/NEWS01/140519362/1004/Water-source-back-to-normal-

"the city replaced its primary water supply with water from the Snohomish County Public Utility District for more than a month, at a cost that could run into the six figures. The reason: fear that contamination from the Oso mudslide would leech into the city's well water...

Testing of the river in the days after the slide showed...levels of antimony, arsenic, chromium and lead that were above state and federal limits for drinking water. That could have contaminated the city's drinking water had the well been active..."


I really like seeing an example of precautionary measures. During a time when the crisis at hand was overwhelming, some smart people looked ahead at what might make it even worse and took the safe, preventative route. There was only a possibility that the river might contaminate the well, but they decided the risk wasn't worth it. This is the sort of "boring" stuff we usually don't hear about, because - nothing happened. Which is kinda the point of preparedness, IMO. You WANT your course through SHTF to be the boring, safe solution whenever possible.

I just hope they don't pay too dearly for it!

Offline Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #55 on: May 22, 2014, 05:45:33 PM »
Death toll from Washington state landslide rises to 42 after another body is recovered - sheriff's office

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2014, 08:39:22 PM »
Last body found from Washington landslide that killed 43
http://www.bnowire.com/2014/07/22/last-body-found-from-washington-landslide-that-killed-43/

Cedar

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2014, 08:11:41 AM »
Did you read that they attributed the slide to rain fall and erosion?

Who knew!?  :o

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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2014, 07:52:17 AM »


Did anyone see the NOVA episode last night on this?   "Killer Landslides".   It discussed the Oso, WA slide at great length.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/killer-landslide.html

Went into some of the science behind what caused it (basically too much rain, type of soil, etc etc) and some of the science they can use to help predict when slides are going to happen.   Some cool laser and radar devices they can setup to watch a suspected area and send out evacuation notices, close roads, etc right before it happens.

This slide at Oso was odd in the way it behaved according the the geologists they had on the program.   It liquefied and "ran out" more than slides of similar makeup.   


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Re: Snohomish County, Washington
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2014, 08:58:07 AM »
I will have to watch it MSP.. thanks.

Cedar