Author Topic: Baltimore protests  (Read 49456 times)

nelson96

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #120 on: May 01, 2015, 01:43:00 PM »
Might be possible to charge the driver with using the vehicle as a weapon of murder.

Not unless the prosecuter can prove that he drove with an intent to purposely harm this person.  I think the driver was simply not following procedure [by not using seat belts] and therefore was negligent in properly caring for his pasenger.  But, for this reason I would still suspect that "depraved-heart murder" will be charged.....  When an officer detains, constrains, and then transports a person, it should be done in a manner of uber responsibility for their care.  Once they are under your control and can not harm you or anyone else, there is no reason not to be careful toward their care. 

I also don't think that the drive in itself is what caused his spine to seperate.  It takes a lot more than a city drive to make that happen, no matter how shackled you are, IMO.
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Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #121 on: May 01, 2015, 01:44:57 PM »
right or wrong, I have heard that the directive to buckle in a prisoner was new that week.  yes, it should have been SOP anyway, but I can see if a person is not used to doing something, not doing it.

nelson96

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #122 on: May 01, 2015, 01:49:18 PM »
right or wrong, I have heard that the directive to buckle in a prisoner was new that week.  yes, it should have been SOP anyway, but I can see if a person is not used to doing something, not doing it.

For sure.

The driver will get off, simply because he's innocent.  It'll still be a wake-up call for shoring up procedure. But he probably shouldn't ever be made responsible for the care of another.

.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #123 on: May 01, 2015, 01:54:44 PM »
It is still not as simple as all that. Protestors will think they won with this decision. For now. Regardless. And if these police get acquitted down the road the protests and riots will be worse. If they do go to trial and do not get 'punished', there will be more protests and riots which will have multiplied since Ferguson.

This is not as easy as all that. This is not a cut and dry situation. I believe this will be ongoing. If not with Gray.. with the next one.

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Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #124 on: May 01, 2015, 04:40:46 PM »
It is still not as simple as all that...................

Cedar

No it is not so simple.

These officers were charged on a complaint.  A complaint is not an indictment.  The prosecutor was playing to the mob today.   It might be enough of a trick to keep the riot down and just peaceful protests while the NBP stages their demonstration tomorrow.   It gives Al the Charlatan time to line his pockets too.

 :popcorn:

 






Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #125 on: May 01, 2015, 07:54:30 PM »
I don't really think it mattered if there was evidence to charge the cops or not.  They were being charged no matter what.  If there weren't any charges, the riots would have started big time tonight.

I'm pretty sure that something fishy happened.  The cops were likely negligent and could have kept him from dying.  But I don't think that they are guilty of murder or man slaughter.  I also don't think they can get a "fair" trial in Baltimore. 

Offline Kilroy

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #126 on: May 02, 2015, 08:54:21 AM »
From the Baltimore Police Union....

Dear Ms. Mosby,

Please allow this Open Letter to serve as my request, on behalf of the officers I represent as President of the Fraternal Order of Police for the Baltimore Police Department, that you appoint a Special Independent Prosecutor.

Each of the officers involved is sincerely saddened by Mr. Gray's passing. They are all committed police officers who have dedicated their careers to the Baltimore City Police Department. And that has been lost in all of the publicity. All death is tragic. And death associated with interaction with police is both shocking and frightening to the public. Not one of the officers involved in this tragic situation left home in the morning with the anticipation that someone with whom they interacted would not go home that night. Not one of the officers involved are responsible for the death of Mr. Gray. To the contrary, at all times, each of the officers diligently balanced their obligations to protect Mr. Gray and discharge their duties to protect the public.

I have full faith in your professional integrity. While I have the utmost respect for you and your office, I have very deep concerns about the many conflicts of interest presented by your investigation in this case. These conflicts include your personal and professional relationship with Gray family attorney, William Murphy and the lead prosecutor's connections with members of the local media. Based on several nationally televised interviews, these reporters are likely to be witnesses in any potential litigation regarding this incident. Most importantly, it is clear that your husband's political future will be impacted, for better or worse, by the outcome of your investigation. In order to avoid any appearance of impropriety or a violation of the Professional Rules of Professional Responsibility, I ask that you appoint a Special Prosecutor to determine whether or not any charges should be filed.

We recognize that there are many dimensions to this situation: the public sentiments - on all sides; the investigation being conducted by your Office; the internal police investigation; and a necessary review of the tools, equipment, and resources afforded to Baltimore police officers in order to carry out their sworn duty as police officers.

Thank you for your time in reading this letter and I hope that this communication may serve to open up a dialogue in the future.

Gene Ryan

President FOP #3

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #127 on: May 02, 2015, 06:56:59 PM »
Interesting bit of info I ran across and looked into.

According to The Baltimore Sun, Lt. Brian Rice, who initially pursued Gray on a Baltimore street, had some guns confiscated over a "mental health issue" that was redacted.

However, this was due to contact made in what appears to be a child custody dispute, and so should be taken with some salt.

According to MSNBC, in another domestic case, Rice is accused of threatening the then-boyfriend of his son's mother with a handgun.

nelson96

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #128 on: May 02, 2015, 07:35:52 PM »
Interesting bit of info I ran across and looked into.

According to The Baltimore Sun, Lt. Brian Rice, who initially pursued Gray on a Baltimore street, had some guns confiscated over a "mental health issue" that was redacted.

However, this was due to contact made in what appears to be a child custody dispute, and so should be taken with some salt.

According to MSNBC, in another domestic case, Rice is accused of threatening the then-boyfriend of his son's mother with a handgun.

My cousin is going through a terrible divorce and the [unhappy person he was married to] lied to get a restraining order, then lied again to turn him in for breaking his restraining order.  This got him a night in jail and loss of all his firearms.

Sorry to go off the rails, just giving an example of how likely it is to lose your firearms, even when innocent.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 09:40:59 PM by Endurance »

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #129 on: May 02, 2015, 07:56:16 PM »
Oh, I completely agree Nelson.  That's why I pointed out that we should take this piece of info with some salt.  But there's some reports on it, so I thought it was worth linking to the articles.

Offline Josh the Aspie

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #130 on: May 02, 2015, 10:34:54 PM »
Exclusive: Baltimore police officer speaks out about case Fox News, Hanity.

20 minute video, I'll summarize.

Anonymous person, claiming to be a Baltimore police officer claims that Freddie Grey was apprehended because they observed him involved in a "hand to hand" transaction on the street, small items for currency.  All involved in the transaction fled when hailed.  Freddie Grey "was a known drug dealer" (do they mean he had a conviction?).

He later tested positive for Heroine and Marjuana.

Interviewed individual suggests that Grey he swallowed the heroine he was dealing.  He and Hannity discuss adverse reactions.

This could explain the now-recanted testimony of banging sounds from the other side of the prisoner transportation vehicle.  It's suggested that he may have had a poor reaction to the heroin, and injured himself in the back of the ban.

------

Other notes on the subject: Here's a picture of the vehicle in question.


Image of van taken from article The Timeline of Freddie Gray’s
Arrest and the Charges Filed

Offline Cedar

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #131 on: May 02, 2015, 10:45:54 PM »
Interesting article. Where are all the older men in Baltimore?
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/02/us/lord-of-the-flies-baltimore/index.html

Cedar

Bonnieblue2A

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2015, 08:10:55 AM »
It was pointed out to me that because of the manner in which these officers were charges (on complaint rather than indictment), that they have the right to a preliminary hearing.   It will be interesting for some of these severe charges what the prosecutor has attached in the filing of these charges as the motive and probable cause being assigned to those charged.

Perhaps we have an attorney in the TSP forum community who would like to post about the process?

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2015, 12:16:33 PM »
It was pointed out to me that because of the manner in which these officers were charges (on complaint rather than indictment), that they have the right to a preliminary hearing.   It will be interesting for some of these severe charges what the prosecutor has attached in the filing of these charges as the motive and probable cause being assigned to those charged.

Perhaps we have an attorney in the TSP forum community who would like to post about the process?

I have been following http://legalinsurrection.com/ since travyon martin.  They usually are able to put the legalese into perspective.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #134 on: May 06, 2015, 11:12:24 AM »
1 hour ago:
- Maryland Gov. Hogan rescinds state of emergency, National Guard to leave Baltimore

Cedar

endurance

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #135 on: May 06, 2015, 11:38:35 AM »
The insurance claims are starting to roll in now.  No estimate for the dollar amount yet, but it appears about 200 businesses in total were damaged plus 144 cars. 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-riot-insurance-20150501-story.html

It could have been a lot worse.  I know none of this is the end with this cycle of escalating unrest across the country, but it appears this round is drawing to an end for now.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #136 on: May 06, 2015, 01:38:32 PM »
The insurance claims are starting to roll in now.  No estimate for the dollar amount yet, but it appears about 200 businesses in total were damaged plus 144 cars. 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-riot-insurance-20150501-story.html

It could have been a lot worse.  I know none of this is the end with this cycle of escalating unrest across the country, but it appears this round is drawing to an end for now.
Only 200 businesses?  That is better than I thought.  The news made you think a very large amount of the city was a war zone.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2015, 03:17:26 PM »
No, it was contained to a fairly small part of the city.  But there were other pockets of unrest in other parts, just not nearly as much as they showed.

endurance

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #138 on: May 06, 2015, 04:09:33 PM »
I remember watching it the night of and thinking OMG the entire city is burning, then the helicopter pulled out its zoom a little and it was obvious it was just an isolated pocket and they were just trying to make it look as bad as possible.

Offline Cedar

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2015, 04:29:14 PM »
And.... that is why I try to watch the livestreamers.

Cedar

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Re: Baltimore protests
« Reply #140 on: July 27, 2016, 01:36:57 PM »