Author Topic: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun  (Read 102933 times)

Offline ModernSurvival

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Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« on: April 17, 2009, 10:29:20 AM »
OK help me out folks a person asked me "what is the best home defense weapon if you can't own a gun",  I mentioned it and this thread on today's show.

My two answers Tazer or Katana (Samari sword)  My view of each

Tazer - effective and less then lethal which are both advantages.  Big disadvantage is it is not very effective on multiple invaders.

Katana - highly deadly, very fast and proven.  Disadvantages, requires training, close range only. 

I won't make big case here from either and I don't need you to either just yet.  For now just suggest any weapon that can be used with a bit of why it is good for home defense.  Once this thread runs a while I will compile all the suggestions and we can run a poll, we should learn some interesting things with this one.
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Offline cajunkraut

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 12:03:39 PM »
OK help me out folks a person asked me "what is the best home defense weapon if you can't own a gun",  I mentioned it and this thread on today's show.

My two answers Tazer or Katana (Samari sword)  My view of each

Tazer - effective and less then lethal which are both advantages.  Big disadvantage is it is not very effective on multiple invaders.

Katana - highly deadly, very fast and proven.  Disadvantages, requires training, close range only. 

I won't make big case here from either and I don't need you to either just yet.  For now just suggest any weapon that can be used with a bit of why it is good for home defense.  Once this thread runs a while I will compile all the suggestions and we can run a poll, we should learn some interesting things with this one.

I know next to nothing about sword melee so I'm eminently qualified to offer my two cents :) What about a katana paired with a wakisashi or tanto? If you find yourself face to face with someone with your back to the wall, or on the ground grappling, the extra length of the katana could make bringing it into play more difficult than a shorter weapon.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 12:10:42 PM »
What about those air guns that you guys like so much?  Aren't they "not" considered guns?  And that'd change somebody's mind about wanting to break in.  Really fast.

Or what about a paintball gun, appropriately aimed?  Or a shillelagh (big wooden club)?  Orrrrrr a baseball bat with nails sticking out of it?  Oh, this could get fun. ;)


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buckeye

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 12:18:27 PM »
thoughts:

-upgrade standard taser to "Blast Knuckles" or flashlight stun gun
-make sure any sword purchased is battle ready and not replica
     -rather than purchasing a sword, consider purchasing a couple machete instead -- any survival kit should have and they're cheaper without worrying whether they'd hold up in a home defense situation; and you'll likely be used to carrying and swinging them if you use them regularly as a tool while camping, etc.
-instead of sword/machete, a one handed battle axe/tomahawk/lightweight hatchet might be a suitable replacement
-consider bear strength pepper spray over standard
*any of two of above can be wielded in combination

two handed weapons
-halberd or poleaxe is a good defensive weapon in hallways and suitable for fighting in large rooms -- but it's size has limitations, even if you reduce the size of the handle down to 4 or 5 or 6 feet
-high-velocity hunting slingshot
-crossbow
*a flashlight can be mounted on both crossbow and slingshot, and one or the other should be included in most survival kits as well

other options worthy of consideration:
-steel baton
-throwing knives
-incapacitating noise devices w/ or w/o a stobe light function -- make certain you have ear protection
-baseball bat, preferably little league sized for easier use

As with any home defense, it's important to identify before attacking -- the last thing you want to do is bring harm to your family!

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 12:23:49 PM »
Katana - highly deadly, very fast and proven.  Disadvantages, requires training, close range only. 
I've discussed this with friends over the last 20 years, we decided the katana and similar sized swords are too long for in-house fighting. As buckeye mentioned, a machete or gladius sized sword (the gladius is the sword the romans used).
Pic of a gladius:


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Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 12:41:46 PM »
Plus, if I remember right, katanas are only sharpened on one side.  And gladiuses (gladii?) are sharpened on both sides.


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Offline bushidorobb

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 12:53:10 PM »
Sister Wolf, you are correct about the Katana being a single edged weapon.
The length of The Katana during an indoor skirmish was a problem in feudal japan as well.
So they used the shorter wakisashi.... ( the carbine of swords ;D)
Personally I would use the wakisashi and a Tazer combination ( or some other mid length sword).
Just make sure you are using a REAL sword, not a decorative one.
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Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 12:55:58 PM »
Plus, if I remember right, katanas are only sharpened on one side.  And gladiuses (gladii?) are sharpened on both sides.
You are correct Sister Wolf, You can cut with a gladius on both sides and stick something with the straight point. Much better for close in fighting in limited space.


From a friend: Benjamin Franklin once said that beer is proof that God loves us.
I'm of the opinion that Redheads are proof that, contrary to popular belief, Satan also loves us.
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Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2009, 12:58:02 PM »
Sister Wolf, you are correct about the Katana being a single edged weapon.
The length of The Katana during an indoor skirmish was a problem in feudal japan as well.
So they used the shorter wakisashi.... ( the carbine of swords ;D)
Personally I would use the wakisashi and a Tazer combination ( or some other mid length sword).
Just make sure you are using a REAL sword, not a decorative one.
A wakasashi would be good, but i think it takes more skill/training to use one. the untrained masses might do better with a straight edged, short sword. I prefer Japanese blades myself (but I need more training).


From a friend: Benjamin Franklin once said that beer is proof that God loves us.
I'm of the opinion that Redheads are proof that, contrary to popular belief, Satan also loves us.
My small blog: http://journeytogreenerpastures.blogspot.com/

Offline Chris Redfield

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2009, 12:58:31 PM »
My two (Canadian) cents:

First and foremost - any country that doesn't recognize a citizen's right to bear arms is likely to have a pretty bad track record when it comes to the use of force (deadly or not) in self-defense. As a Canadian, I have a legal right under the Criminal Code to use deadly force to defend myself - but since I know what public perception is with regards to that issue, the first call I made would be 911, and the second would be my lawyer. And until he arrived and I had a nice chat with him, I wouldn't be saying one word to police, other than "Lawyer."

On katanas (that's "samurai", by the way ;) ) - absolutely not in a home defense scenario. Any blade that length is simply too long to be wielded effectively in the confines of a home. An enclosed hallway with a low roof essentially limits you to a stab, rather than a slash. Even the shorter swords (gladius, machete) will still be a less than optimal choice. If you have to use a knife, use something with a six-inch fixed blade - a "hunting knife" to use a common term. This does reduce your range significantly - but with all of the non-firearm home defense weapons, you're not going to be able to "stand your ground" and let them come to you - the element of surprise is crucial.

A short, stout blunt object, like a steel baton or wooden bat, is another option. Not that someone who gets stabbed is going to instinctively fight back, but the business end of a good baton will put stars in someone's eyes for a moment, hopefully enough for a second swing. Repeat as necessary.

In all cases, however - "no gun" is a home defense scenario I wouldn't want to be in, outside of a Home Alone movie.
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Offline Mielikki

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2009, 12:58:40 PM »
What about an axe or a hatchet? Almost everyone has either one of those (or both), and they are pretty effective. Hatchet is even usable in smaller spaces and if you don't get a "clear" hit, the momentum will still give quite a blow.

Offline Chris Redfield

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2009, 01:01:56 PM »
An sharp axe or hatchet would definitely be an effective short-range weapon - it runs the risk of becoming lodged in an attacker though.
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Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2009, 01:08:30 PM »
What about something like eskima sticks? Would require training but can be quite effective:
"Eskrima" or "Escrima" refers to a class of Filipino Martial Arts that emphasize stick and sword fighting. The term and the art most probably originates from the Spanish word "esgrima" which is the term for fencing.


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Michael Masse

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2009, 01:09:15 PM »
Can of mace and a baseball bat and perhaps an attack dog.

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 01:13:12 PM »
nasty mother in law...


From a friend: Benjamin Franklin once said that beer is proof that God loves us.
I'm of the opinion that Redheads are proof that, contrary to popular belief, Satan also loves us.
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mountainwilliamwannabe

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2009, 01:14:08 PM »
Sorry........
"In the end, there can be only one...."

 ;)

Offline bushidorobb

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2009, 01:17:50 PM »
Archer,
That would inhuman...  No way I would ever sick my  mother in law on somebody. 
It would be kinder to tar and feather them :D
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Offline Chris Redfield

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2009, 01:18:28 PM »
nasty mother in law...

That might be unnecessary use of force! :D
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Offline Dr. Horrible

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2009, 01:19:48 PM »
On katanas (that's "samurai", by the way ;) ) - absolutely not in a home defense scenario. Any blade that length is simply too long to be wielded effectively in the confines of a home. An enclosed hallway with a low roof essentially limits you to a stab, rather than a slash.
I own a katana and I've got to agree. It's not an acceptable weapon for cramped quarters fighting. Visions of going Highlander on an intruder aside, you'd be better off with a good chef's knife than one of these in most houses.

There's also the investigation to deal with (assuming you used it on the intruder) as well. Stab someone with a kitchen knife vs. severing limbs/head with a largely obsolete weapon that has no other purpose - which one is more likely to wind you up in jail? Or, even in the best case, on the evening news with the wrong kind of attention?
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Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2009, 01:33:11 PM »
One thing I would point out on a sword is that when most people think sword for defense they think for some reason sword vs. sword.  Shorter may indeed be better and I am sticking to my 1911 but I promise you I would no want to be moving around a dark home with a well trained home owner with any good quality sword hiding in a corner or just inside the next room.

I am very comfortable using katanas and other swords and the belief many have about the amount of force/length of swing required to yield deadly force is a bit exaggerated.  A sword can be used with little more then the flick of a wrist,  (I should do some vids on this I guess).

That said some other great suggestions thus far!  Keep em coming we can sort out what is best when we run the poll later on.
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Offline Chris Redfield

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2009, 02:13:06 PM »
Perhaps I was a bit too harsh on katanas - if you're comfortable using one, and feel that you have the room to wield one effectively, it would be a fearsome thing to walk into, and probably the last thing you walked into as well. I personally would never use one ... but again, to quote Jack, "that's just one man's opinion!"

And another plus to the katana is that while a quick-reacting intruder might be able to grab a bat on the way down, or block a stab from a shorter knife, trying to catch or block a fast-moving katana would leave him with a whole lot of damage, and a lot fewer fingers. :o

Here's something else, for those of you who might want to consider a "non-weapon" alternative - a crowbar. Heavy, metal, and with a blunt side can be used to deliver a less-lethal strike.
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Offline bushidorobb

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2009, 02:18:33 PM »
You could use a small cross bow.  You will probably only get one shot, but you don't have to worry about getting close.  It is deadly and capable of penetration of very thick clothing.
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kickbot

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2009, 03:03:52 PM »
I keep a pry bar within easy reach.  You can deliver a a variety of strikes with it, and it's handy.

Offline swanson

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2009, 03:20:02 PM »
For me,

It's always been less about firearms and more about a prepared mind that's ready to act when the moment of deadly danger comes into being.

Firearms, edged weapons, impact weapons, chemical-based (OC) weapons, tazers/stun guns, and improvised weapons - it really does not matter.

Transfer the necessary energy into your target via the most efficient means available at the time within the confines of the proper use of force and/or rules of engagement.

I also want to add that it is tremendously important to study the human body and the effects produced by the variety of weapons you might use against vital points as well.

You might be surprised at the amount of damage the body can take before it hits the wall of mobility impairment, hypovolemic shock, unconsciousness, and/or incapacitation.


With all that said, my choice outside the use of a gun for home defense would be an edged weapon in a commonly available size, if readily available and accessed when in crisis.

Check out the FBI stats on the dangers posed by edged weapons. They are common, popular, and effective tools. You just might be facing a violent criminal actor with an edged weapon if your home is invaded as well.

With a modicum of regular training with an edged weapon, you would be putting another serious survival skill set in your defensive tool box if you are mentally primed to engage in close quarter confrontation.

Plus, are you more likely carry a pocket folder around the house or your firearm anyways.

Edged weapons tend to be everywhere.

As the saying goes...If it's not in your hands or on your belt - it's not in the fight.

swanson
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 08:21:40 PM by swanson »

Offline kimrpeterson

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2009, 04:32:13 PM »
I believe the best home defense weapon is an attack trained dog. A dog is a huge deterrent to anyone wanting to commit a crime on my property.  I am in the process of training my new German Shepherd and hoping to get her through to a Schutzhund 3 title.  Using a bladed weapon is just not realistic for me personally and having a trained dog means I don't have to be on guard since (hopefully) the dog is. For a woman, this makes the most sense in home protection.  I still have a loaded Glock close by though!

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 09:58:02 PM »
OK trained dog sounds great.  i don't have a dog.  as  a taekwondo black belt and a hapkido student and just an all around fighting and weapons nut i have no problem using a katana for home defence.  i even have 2.  one i reworked the handle to make it longer so i get some really awesome torque on my cuts.  once i heard something in the house.  i got up grabbed the katana. and let the dogs out of their carriers/beds and proceede to go room by room.  there was nothing there.  but i left the AR-15 and ther Keltek P3AT in the bedroom.  my first instinctive response was the sword.  the girlfriend was happy that the guns stayed with her.  ???  even though she left them in the safe and on the dresser.  more recently same scenario it was flashlight and pistol.  by the way listening to jack's episode 182 and listening to the urban farming section.  i'm currently buying 5 acres within 45 minute drive from Chattanooga Tn. (where my day job is)  i will be providing my own food by gardening and rabbits and chickens and goats and aquaculturing catfish.  cheapest piece of crap house i can find with the most land i can afford.  Jamaica really?  wow.

Offline BerserkerPrime

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2009, 11:11:49 PM »
Sorry folks, but laughed my ass off at the thought of me taking on a home invader with a samurai sword! :D   I really think that is a bad idea on many levels unless you've had training in close quarters sword fighting (LOL) with wives, kids, dogs, gnomes or what ever running around in a panic while you try to take on the bad guys. 

Same with crossbows BTW.  Not a good option as you will have to draw back string and load, find target, aim, shoot, and pray to god you got it right. 

I keep a 6 D cell MagLite (skull splitter) by my bed (w/glock) and wife has police grade OC-baton (w/S&W .38 crimson trace grips).  Other than the maglite and OC, I have a fish club in the garage and an expandable baton (ASP) in the den. 

For ease of use, I'd encourage ASP and/or maglight, though both require close contact with enemy. 

BP
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 11:17:09 PM by BerserkerPrime »

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2009, 04:35:32 PM »
One should keep in mind that a well made katana or wakizashi can EASILY cost around 4 grand.  The pieces you can pick up online with the fancy imitation sheaths are absolutely useless as a weapon.  You might get through enough meat to get it stuck in a piece of bone, but it will almost surely be a one-stab wonder.  Replicas are not weapons.

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2009, 05:10:41 PM »
One should keep in mind that a well made katana or wakizashi can EASILY cost around 4 grand.  The pieces you can pick up online with the fancy imitation sheaths are absolutely useless as a weapon.  You might get through enough meat to get it stuck in a piece of bone, but it will almost surely be a one-stab wonder.  Replicas are not weapons.
The one I have I inherited from a friend who inherited it from a family friend who picked it up in Japan after WWII. I've researched it, it's a infantry soldiers Katana, roughly made, nicked, but a live blade.


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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2009, 05:28:55 PM »
yeah, that's the other option, is to find an actual antique, but you will  still spend a good couple of grand for one that is in functional shape.  My sensei used to have a 16th century Katana and an antique wakizashi (not sure of that one's age).  You have to have a blade with a proper mix of good and bad steel, it has to be balanced correctly, it has to be sharpened correctly.  The ones my sensei had still had the test stamps at the base of the blade near the signature that told the number of arms and heads they had cut through with one stroke before they were considered finished. :)