Author Topic: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun  (Read 253963 times)

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2009, 04:32:16 PM »
And if you have a true family blade you should have it re-set.  When going into war samurai wanted to keep family blades but the govt wanted them to appear uniform, so you had the blade put into government settings(govt tsuba, etc) which usually rattled a bit and weren't made very well.  There are still a few places in Japan that can re-set or re-polish a blade correctly.  Just make sure you keep the nicks, yes?  The man who made them probably lost his life, pretty cool little piece of history to have... ;)

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2009, 04:39:50 PM »
If I were going to have a weapon other than a gun in the house I would probably have a compound bow.  You can hold the tension while you check the house.  Though you could probably fire a recurve faster. 

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2009, 09:44:50 PM »
One should keep in mind that a well made katana or wakizashi can EASILY cost around 4 grand. 

I paid just over 400 for my "Cold Steel" as you can see in this video they are certainly battle capable,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2009, 10:23:19 PM »
Oh sweet!!! That is a nice blade.....

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2009, 10:25:09 PM »
I paid just over 400 for my "Cold Steel" as you can see in this video they are certainly battle capable,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE
Cold Steel makes some lovely blades, I've been drooling over them for years...

Offline archer

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2009, 10:26:50 PM »
And if you have a true family blade you should have it re-set.  When going into war samurai wanted to keep family blades but the govt wanted them to appear uniform, so you had the blade put into government settings(govt tsuba, etc) which usually rattled a bit and weren't made very well.  There are still a few places in Japan that can re-set or re-polish a blade correctly.  Just make sure you keep the nicks, yes?  The man who made them probably lost his life, pretty cool little piece of history to have... ;)
Hmm, the hilt is a rough, nasty piece of work. But the blade is nice and it will never have the nicks taken out. They are the history of the blade. I'll have to do more research on it and see about removing the hilt.

Offline Spamity Calamity

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2009, 10:55:22 PM »
I paid just over 400 for my "Cold Steel" as you can see in this video they are certainly battle capable,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE

I think he was talking more about an "authentic" samurai sword.

My vote would be baseball bat. Although some of those hand tools at the hardware store strike me as awful deadly looking weapons. Like once I remember seeing a  hammer with an axe edge on the other side. Or maybe if you cant own a gun perhaps a black powder gun? Maybe those are not regulated in whatever horrible country that regulates a persons right to defend themselves. Blackpowder guns are just as crazy deadly as when they were invented they just cant be reloaded quickly.

Or like what about a can of mace? Like seriously though while hes on the ground with his hands over his face from the mace you would have lots of time to go over your options .
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 12:16:24 AM by Spamity Calamity »

Offline Mielikki

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2009, 12:41:29 AM »
I paid just over 400 for my "Cold Steel" as you can see in this video they are certainly battle capable,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzX9GZ3qKE

Battle capable and also ready for kitchen duty. He makes some really nice slabs ready to be grilled slowly :P

Offline Beetle

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2009, 01:02:43 AM »
Stihl 044 with a 28" bar! I'm goin Texas on your ass!!!

Offline Darkwinter

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2009, 08:05:43 AM »
HOME DEFENSE:
 Criminals are lazy and stupid, for the most part.  So to start with, keep you house from being a target is the first step to home defense IMO. 

1. Lock doors and windows
2. Keep ladders inside and don't leave things outside you home that will help the criminals.
3. Have a Security system with an audible alarm
4.  Use deadbolts, and bars for sliders
5.  don't hide keys under fake rocks, don't use 0000 as your garage door code
6. Use landscaping to make it difficult to enter windows
7.  Join a neighborhood watch
8.  Know your neighbors, and know who SHOULD be in your neighborhood.
9. Shred financial paperwork before throwing it out, and don't stack empty boxes of recently purchased high end electronics on your curb at trash day either.

Now, if you try everything you can to prevent the intrusion in the first place, Get a home defense firearm.

IF YOU CAN'T GET  FIREARM, pick an item you CAN get and TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN. No one buys a gun, hides it under the pillow and expects it to save them. 

Offline punkndisorderly

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2009, 09:25:59 AM »
I think darkwinter has it right. It's something those of us that do have firearms would do well to follow as well. Doing whatever is reasonable to minimize your chances of ever needing to use your firearm (or other weapon) is the responsible thing to do.

As far as non-firearms defense, I don't know. My initial thought was something that would keep the attacker at a distance (sword, bat, etc). However, if the attacker gets within your swinging zone, it's useless. On the other hand, something like a knife means you have to get close enough to use it which isn't a great option either. A taser might be a good way to go. Most tasers can be used at a distance as well as used like the old stun guns (pressing them against the attacker). The major downside to tasers are that you have to keep giving them the juice to keep the target incapacitated. That doesn't give you much time to call for help or to run. It also means your screwed if they manage to pull out one of the probes. Pepper sparay is another option but has its own drawbacks as well. It doesn't work insatntly, doesn't work on everyone, and can work against the user as well (blowback, etc). Perhaps the foam version of pepperspray might be a better option in an instide siituation.


Offline mbarnatl

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2009, 10:01:28 AM »
My dog. If they get by him:

Stun Gun Flashlight -  hitting the attacker with the baton or stunning him with 600,000 volts!

Mace Pepper Gun - Sprays 7 blasts up to 25 feet.

Improvised weapons can include:
- Pen/pencil
- Beer bottle/mug
- Ashtray
- Hammer
- Chair
- Scissors
- Screwdriver/ice pick
- Pipe/club
- Shovel

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2009, 01:37:33 PM »
I don't argue that your sword could kill a man, and please do not take offense, but for a little over five hundred dollars what you get is not a true samurai sword.  The blade has to be folded enough times to separate the different steels that go into the sword.  What you are left with after folding over 200 times is a core of soft steel with a "shell" of more rigid steel.  The "shell" has a very high carbon content due to the separation created when folding.  When sharpened, the crystalline structure of the carbon creates a microscopic sawing edge.  This is why the sword is drawn across the target.  If you look closely at the gentleman in the video he is using a "sledgehammer" grip popular when cutting with a chopping weapon (i.e. western blades).  The correct grip for a katana is looser, allowing the wrist to flick the blade.  Don't get me wrong, you could kill someone with it, but a true katana will cut through much more than that sword.  Tests done on prisoners pressed chest to back would routinely cut through 5-8 arms in one stroke.  Most swords on the market are european blades in the shape of a katana.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2009, 02:15:10 PM »
I don't argue that your sword could kill a man, and please do not take offense, but for a little over five hundred dollars what you get is not a true samurai sword.  The blade has to be folded enough times to separate the different steels that go into the sword.  What you are left with after folding over 200 times is a core of soft steel with a "shell" of more rigid steel.  The "shell" has a very high carbon content due to the separation created when folding.  When sharpened, the crystalline structure of the carbon creates a microscopic sawing edge.  This is why the sword is drawn across the target.  If you look closely at the gentleman in the video he is using a "sledgehammer" grip popular when cutting with a chopping weapon (i.e. western blades).  The correct grip for a katana is looser, allowing the wrist to flick the blade.  Don't get me wrong, you could kill someone with it, but a true katana will cut through much more than that sword.  Tests done on prisoners pressed chest to back would routinely cut through 5-8 arms in one stroke.  Most swords on the market are european blades in the shape of a katana.

I don't disagree at all with you assessment of the blades themselves, the question though is what is the purpose for this weapon in this particular situation?  The weapons from cold steel and other similar sources are exceptional blades and more then capable of lethal force if needed.  While what you say is absolutely true it is also meaningless to a person using a blade for home defense.  Unless a trained Samurai with an original katana breaks into your home, the difference is moot.   This is a lot like saying a 30-06 has greater power then a 308, true, but meaningless to the target,

Offline ColdHaven

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2009, 02:26:53 PM »
My first reaction after listening to this portion of the podcast was that of either one or both things. My first thought was a katana, or if you would rather a shorter straighter version, what has been modernly referred to as the ninja-to. Since my fondness of Japanese culture and history I would prefer either a katana or wakizashi. To be honest, though, the use of both at the same time would require a lot of room. Thus, a shorter sword such as the ninja-to or the wakizashi would be preferable, for me, in home defense in absence of a gun. If you use a tanto you might as well use any other fighting knife out there. If such were the case I would suggest a ka-bar.

Reason for use of a wakizashi over a samurai sword deal mostly with the arc of a swing necessary to use it effectively. Samurai swords are longer, and are not well used in hallways and near doors. The wakizashi is long enough to keep your opponent away from your immediate area, and it still has the bite of a samurai sword, in my humble opinion. You have to realize that these swords were meant for slicing, not chopping, or hacking. Thus, they are lethal if used to attack the corresponding places on the human body which would lead them to bleed out quickly. Its not like the films where you slice off an appendage. Realistically some wounds that did not look bad prooved to be fatal due to severed arteries.

I would not want to face someone who had a gun and I only had this to defend myself but it would be the first thing I would use if such were the case. If you wanted to be non-lethal about it I suppose you could use a bokken (which is essentially a wooden samurai sword of equal weight). The sword's master, Musashi, used a bokken he had fashioned from an oar to win his first match. His opponent didn't survive.

If you are looking for a ranged attack I would suggest a good bow and arrow. However, if they are that far away from you I would think you would have enough time to call 911.

You could use other swords, but many were made to be heavy enough to cut through armor and such. In effect they are cumbersome in home defense.

The only other weapon I would suggest, if you could learn how to use them, are Sai. These are highly effective for both defense against an attacker who does not have a gun, and for attacking said aggressor. They can be used with pressure points to incapacitate them, or give them sufficient blows to where they will stop attacking you. They are not as lethal so accidentally killing your assailant is not as likely unless that is what you are intending to do.

So the short of my long dissertation is either a wakizashi or a pair of sai.

Offline punkndisorderly

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2009, 02:49:19 PM »
After kicking this around a bit, What about a military style tomahawk? More range and power than a knife. With a wrist strap, you're less likely to drop it or have it pried away from you. The modern verions seem like they would be a pretty amazing multi purpose tool.

You could go whole hog and get one of the custom Tacticool kind for less than any quality sword I've seen (most of the inexpensive ones are aimed at looking pretty rather than actually being sharpened and used). I've also seen fairly inexpensive camp axes that would probably give you 80% of the functionality. As long as they are heavy enough to deliver a good blow without being so long and unwieldy that it would take forever to get it back into action after the first swing like say a big firemans axe.

Offline wbo3

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2009, 02:58:39 PM »
How about one of these?



I don't actually own one, but have seen them in the BudK catalog...here is a link to this beast...http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=15%20BKYK0413&splid=SPLID01.  And it is less than $20!!!

Offline CBMS

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2009, 03:08:04 PM »
Well for my home defence  weapon is the tomahawk I keep by my bed. I also have a wooden baseball bat next to the door to my room.
As I am living Canada there is a certain national sport that makes great pokeing and slashing tools. Yes sir, the mighty hockey stick is great for those annoying long distance strikes. Hell more people are killed by these frigging things than guns here in canada (well not anymroe with the gangs but its how it used to be). Swords are unacceptable to me because they dont drop people fast enough in untrained hands, plus with the laws up here, if I tried to defend myself against a home invader and DIDN'T finish them, they would probably turn around and sue me, and win.
I'll keep with the bat, it smashy good.

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2009, 03:27:19 PM »
If guns are restricted where you live, the possibility of being robbed by someone armed with a blade is much higher.  If someone armed with a manufactured sword attacked Archer, for instance, he could very likely cut their sword in half (provided it is a genuine samurai blade) or a baseball bat, etc. 

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2009, 03:47:04 PM »
If guns are restricted where you live, the possibility of being robbed by someone armed with a blade is much higher.  If someone armed with a manufactured sword attacked Archer, for instance, he could very likely cut their sword in half (provided it is a genuine samurai blade) or a baseball bat, etc. 


I really suggest you watch Mythbusters episode on sword myths before you assume any sword can cut any other sword in half.  The best a top quality sword did against a cheap replica was to break the blade.  One sword cutting another is a myth, don't blame me for it take up your grievance if you have one with Jamie and Adam,   ;)

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2009, 04:17:21 PM »
No offense, but all they proved is that one sword could not cut another in half.  Not all swords are created equal.  And I wouldn't put too much faith in daytime tv.  I've seen footage from captured Japanese ships where a confiscated blade was used to cut through a gun barrel.  Mind you, the blade wasn't in great condition afterwards...

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2009, 04:37:16 PM »
besides, my point was that a samurai katana that has been designed for killing is way more expensive than an alternative weapon like a compound bow, or a baseball bat.

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2009, 04:58:55 PM »
besides, my point was that a samurai katana that has been designed for killing is way more expensive than an alternative weapon like a compound bow, or a baseball bat.

And my point is your point is not really germane to the current issue at hand.  Seriously what it he hell does this have to do with self defense in a home against an invader.  You honestly seem at this point to be talking just to hear yourself.  I don't mean to be a jerk but damn you really are not making a point that has to do with it either a quality replica or genuine Japanese sword being used for defending your home. 


Offline mash

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2009, 05:01:59 PM »
An sharp axe or hatchet would definitely be an effective short-range weapon - it runs the risk of becoming lodged in an attacker though.

Unless the guy is completely out of his melon on PCP or sumthin' I have a feeling that a hatchet lodged in a long bone or shoulderblade would probably take the fight out of him a bit...

Of course this might be an issue if he's brought his MZB friends along.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 05:12:22 PM by mash »

Offline mash

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2009, 05:18:12 PM »
I keep a Mag light next to the bed. I was talking to my brother-in-law, who is an Australian Federal Police officer, about how anybody who tried to sneak into my little hut would get a nasty surprise upside the head.

He told me, "No don't go for the head, if they survive they can turn around and sue you for attempted murder. Go for the bones in the arms and legs, you will still take them out of commission but it will be a cut and dry case of self-defense."

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2009, 05:35:18 PM »
 :D I agree with mash.  We keep big mag lights on each side of our bed at home too.

The thought of having to cope with no gun under the pillow is a very serious and scary one.  As much as I empathize with folks who like expensive weapons (I guess we all like quality weapons one way or another, and we all define quality in different ways), the question isn't "what would be the most awesome, expensive weapon you can imagine having if you didn't have a gun?"  The question, rather, is "what would work in a bad situation?"  and, much like the active shooter thread, the thought of having to actually think through a nasty situation where something bad might really happen puts some of us in a tizzy.  And others among us would like to dream big. 

But really, are any among us *really* prepared for not having a gun within arms reach?  Isn't the best weapon available to us the simple ability to take anything within arms reach and turn it into an effective weapon, regardless of what it shoots, or how sharp the edge is?

I know that the answer is yes.  Some of you guys (men and women) are military, or were recently military, or never stopped training after your service to our country, or are/were police officers, or security contractors, or are highly trained in martial arts.  I am not and never was any of those things, and both the active shooter thread and this thread are both making me seriously reconsider my ability to defend myself.  It's one thing to point a gun and shoot it.  But if that's ALL I can do, I'm screwed.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 06:56:38 PM by Sister Wolf »

Cucuy

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2009, 05:50:53 PM »
whoa there partner, lets recap:

you wanted to know what everybody thought about your katana idea.  I PERSONALLY thought they would be too expensive.  You said you got one cheap, I said you can't get the real thing cheap.  You said there was no difference, I said there was if you're in a melee-only situation WHERE THE OTHER GUY WILL MOST LIKELY BE ARMED WITH  A MELEE WEAPON, then we got into swords cutting each other in half(Oh, and a broken blade is just as useful as a cut blade).  Then I tried to get us back on the cost issue and you got mad.  I absolutely could care less if you are trying to protect yourself with a butter knife, but if you are going to suggest for someone to try and purchase a katana for the purpose of killing there is a world of difference between something designed by someone who makes hunting knives and a weapon designed for killing.  otherwise why not get a twenty five dollar sword from bud k?  because you get what you pay for and youre telling someone to skimp on their weapons.  there are cost effective alternatives to getting a sword.  I can get a bow and arrow that have been proven to be efficiently lethal  for a lot less than a sword that can say the same.  thats my point.

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2009, 06:08:06 PM »
no gun?? where are yall living ? New York?? lol I do Keep a cattle prob with my guns so I guess I could use it... It hurts like hell I'm told..
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 06:14:10 PM by Sister Wolf »

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2009, 06:10:14 PM »
Stop.

Cucuy, listen.

You can only get an authentic whatchamacallit sword for $4000.  You can also get an effective sword for $400.  No qualifiers.  An effective sword is one that makes a wound that will not make mr. bad guy smile.  Nobody's telling anybody to "skimp on their weapons".

It's clear what your opinion is about paying less for a weapon.  You prefer the more expensive weapon, and find it more efficient and far higher in quality than the $400 weapon.

If what somebody can afford is a $25 sword from bud k, then so be it.  We are not elitists on this board.  I can play a $30 guitar just as well as I can play a $2000 guitar, and my ability to wield either has absolutely NOTHING to do with the quality of the instrument.  It has only to do with my ability to play a guitar.  A $4000 sword does not a sensei make.  I'm sure that for somebody who is a connoisseur, it's not worth wasting the money to buy a "crappy" sword for any reason.  I get it.  I have a very particular kind of instrument that I will buy, and I get very passionate about it too.  But we aren't going to become connoisseurs of your trade, and that is most certainly not the point of this thread.  

Also, your very first statement (the main premise upon which you were acting) in that last post you made was already wrong.  Jack never asked us what we thought about his katana idea.  He asked us what we would use if we didn't have a gun handy.  HIS idea was a katana and/or some other weapon.  You were free to make judgments about his ideas, but that wasn't the point of the thread.  The point of the thread was to produce other ideas.  Not to tell each other how stupid the other persons ideas are due to lack of desire (or ability) to spend the kind of money necessary to have a top of the line product.

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2009, 06:14:32 PM »
no gun?? where are yall living ? New York?? lol I do Keep a cattle prob with my guns so I guess I could use it... It hurts like hell I'm told..

Or California, or Canada, or Mexico, or Brazil, or god knows (don't we have people living in just about every nation on this board?) also - if somebody has "committed a felony" they would not be allowed to own a gun.  So I s'pose there are lots of situations where it might be a possibility.