Best Home Defense Weapon if No Gun

[inbox485]

Good point(s)--but they do practice bridge battles and taking gates--where the choke point is maybe 12 feet wide. Usually no walls except hay bales and no ceilings at all, but it's sorta similar.

The swishy-pokey boys (fencers) sometimes do tavern brawls where there are chairs and benches and tables to fight over, around, and under.

OF course, they're a pretty strange bunch. Sometimes they fight with a dead fish in the off-hand.

(You know: Swish-swish! Poke-poke...SMACK!!)

That is kind of what I thought. It is nothing like dealing with a hallway or low ceiling. There are techniques for indoors. Applied properly, one guy with a gun breaking into a house has long odds of survival. Problem is finding somebody willing to teach them.

1. Unless you guys are willing to go through months and months of blood tests to make sure the person you stabbed doesn't have AIDS or another blood/fluid contracted disease, I would strongly suggest you stay away from edged weapons. Not to mention if you do actually end up cutting someone, you're going to have a hell of a messy clean-up to deal with.

2. When you mess with edged weapons you have to be just as aware of where the blade is as your "opponent" does so you don't cut yourself. Unless you are very skilled with edged weapons, in a defense situation you're probably going to be way too concerned with having to cut the person and subsequently forget that you have other means at your disposal (your other limbs, other weapons of opportunity in the room...) and you may end up in lots more trouble because you're hyper-focused on your weapon.

3. When you do cut someone, it gets bloody fast. Unless you take that person out on the first cut (highly unlikely) you're going to have a hell of a time wrestling around in sticky and disgusting blood while fighting.

4. Groups like SCA seem like fun, but I have some trouble seeing much legitimate or practical applications to actual self-defense. The whole idea of SCA is to get dressed up in armor to the point where you can beat each other up - FOR FUN - and purposely NOT hurt each other. If you train that way for a long period of time then it gets ingrained into your head that whenever you have a "fight" encounter you won't get hurt. I feel very sorry for the person that enters into a real self-defense situation with that mindset.

I keep thinking of the story of a police officer who died during a gun fight because whenever he was on the range he was trained to police his brass after he shot all of the bullets in his handgun. He did this during an actual gun battle because that's what he trained to do, and while policing his brass the assailant walked up to him and killed him.

Remember, you fight like you train. If you train in padded armor and whack each other with padded sticks, you're going to enter into a real life-or-death situation with that mindset as well.

Short of a gun, I could probably do reasonably well with a boken, but I'd much rather use a katana, live, and deal with blood borne pathogens latter than end up in a body bag that night. Also, I don't care if it is a pocket knife or a sword, if you learn how to use one, what ever happens will be short. So short, in fact that I've seen incidences that most witnesses don't even realize what was going on.

[inbox485]

The brand name Tazer has been a bit abused much like Kleenex.  If you want what the cops carry, a Tazer that shoots electrodes into an opponent at up to 20', then, yes, they have a registration process.  However, there are many stun guns that offer a similar jolt at point blank range (must be in contact proximity) that require no paperwork whatsoever.  Just depends on what you're looking for.  Personally, I don't like the stun guns because the human reflex is to move away from painful stimuli, thus, the instinct is to break contact, which stops the shock so the attack can resume.  I've been shocked by one as a demonstration to show a friend's girlfriend why she shouldn't bet her life on it.  I'll just say that while it hurt like hell, it wouldn't stop me from punching or kicking my way until someone dropped it.  A Tazer is a different story since the barbs are buried in your skin and you can't get away.

That is exactly how I feel about stun guns. It will stop some stupid jerk from dorking around with them, but for any legitimate assault it is little more than a talisman.

[RPZ]

One should keep in mind that a well made katana or wakizashi can EASILY cost around 4 grand.  The pieces you can pick up online with the fancy imitation sheaths are absolutely useless as a weapon.  You might get through enough meat to get it stuck in a piece of bone, but it will almost surely be a one-stab wonder.  Replicas are not weapons.

The Cheness spring steel katanas are very affordable and argueably better than traditionally forged blades.

http://www.chenessinc.com/

Other options are bows, crossbows, spearguns, spears, large capacity "bear" pepper sprays, antique guns (this includes many very nice pre-1898 Mausers, and handguns),  and of course blackpowder guns.

[LdMorgan]

It is very true that whatever your preferred form of mayhem, there really should be some reality in your training.

Back when I was still trying to get my white belt to stay tied, a Brown Belt in my first karate class (ranked right next to Black) got into a bar fight.

He snap-kicked his opponent in the chin three times with perfect control.

And, just like in practice, he pulled each kick exactly 1" short of contact.

The guy stepped in and punched his lights out.

Oops!

Then too, it really is the person that's dangerous--not the weapon.

A guy in my hometown got into an argument over a woman at a church dance. The three brothers that objected to him dating her (They weren't related to her--just outclassed.) told the guy they were going to take him outside and beat him to death.

He turned around and walked out the door with the three of them right behind him.

As he cleared the doorway he pulled out a little pen knife and turned around. The knife had a blade maybe 3/8" wide and 2-1/2" long.

He poked each one exactly once as they came at him through the doorway.

The first brother fell to the left, the second to the right, and the third straight down at the guy's feet.

All three were DOS, each one stabbed directly in the heart.

It was ruled justifiable homicide.

They were three bad dudes that just happened to go up against a dangerous man.

[inbox485]

It is very true that whatever your preferred form of mayhem, there really should be some reality in your training.

Back when I was still trying to get my white belt to stay tied, a Brown Belt in my first karate class (ranked right next to Black) got into a bar fight.

He snap-kicked his opponent in the chin three times with perfect control.

And, just like in practice, he pulled each kick exactly 1" short of contact.

The guy stepped in and punched his lights out.

Oops!

Then too, it really is the person that's dangerous--not the weapon.

A guy in my hometown got into an argument over a woman at a church dance. The three brothers that objected to him dating her (They weren't related to her--just outclassed.) told the guy they were going to take him outside and beat him to death.

He turned around and walked out the door with the three of them right behind him.

As he cleared the doorway he pulled out a little pen knife and turned around. The knife had a blade maybe 3/8" wide and 2-1/2" long.

He poked each one exactly once as they came at him through the doorway.

The first brother fell to the left, the second to the right, and the third straight down at the guy's feet.

All three were DOS, each one stabbed directly in the heart.

It was ruled justifiable homicide.

They were three bad dudes that just happened to go up against a dangerous man.

I don't know how many of you caught the recent show with the guy from Argentina, but I felt like I heard myself talking when I was listening to him talk about knives. I know some people poo poo using them defensively, but then again, I and several other people I know are alive today because they knew how to use a knife, had a knife and either made it clear they would use it or they actually did use it. Then again, in my background, I spent years learning how to disarm, retain, and grapple with handguns before learning how to shoot one outside of a couple yards.

[inbox485]

The Cheness spring steel katanas are very affordable and argueably better than traditionally forged blades.

http://www.chenessinc.com/

Other options are bows, crossbows, spearguns, spears, large capacity "bear" pepper sprays, antique guns (this includes many very nice pre-1898 Mausers, and handguns),  and of course blackpowder guns.

Thanks for the link. I bought a folded carbon steel o-katana years ago in the $300 range. It serves well, but if I was shopping today, the bujinkan katana would be my absolute first choice in indoor blades. I looked hard for one like that at the time, and it just didn't exist. I might have to get that some day...

http://www.chenessinc.com/9260oniyuri.htm

[FreeLancer]

What's the pros and cons of a short spear for thrusting, rather than throwing, like the 36" Assegai from Cold Steel?  Seems like it would be easier for mere mortals to use effectively in tight quarters compared to a sword, while still providing excellent reach and wounding potential. 

[soupbone]

OF course, they're a pretty strange bunch. Sometimes they fight with a dead fish in the off-hand.

(You know: Swish-swish! Poke-poke...SMACK!!)

Ahem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

soup
 

[notsofast]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but, there's something called a "GLEF", I believe. It's a light weapon, basically a multicolored strobe light. It "overloads" the brain, induces vomitting and can induce a temporary paralysis. They can be built fairly cheaply, if you already have stuff lying around, like i'm sure most of us do. Lol. I believe i've heard you can build one for about $30. Non leathal, no mess, no license or permit. I'm gonna try to build one using a rechargeable spotlight to carry in the van... One day.

[Greysen]

I am a big fan of bladed weapons as long as you've worked with them enough to know to keep your own body out of the cutting path.   The value of them goes up pretty much exponentially with training, but are still pretty dangerous with little training.  Just ask any cop who's had to get a kitchen knife out of a drunks hand.

As far as swords inside, there really isn't that much different than using them outside with the exception of room to above and to the sides to use them. While this limits you, it also severely limits your opponents ability to get out of the way of anything you throw at them.  You either need to use lower weapon postures, or a smaller weapon.  If you opponent gets in really close, you choke up on the weapon.  Either way, as long as you have control of the handle the odds are seriously in your favor.

Short spears are also particularly dangerous, you have a serious leverage and control advantage and really who expects to get speared in this day and age.  If I recall correctly the Zulus used them to decimate their political opponents at a rally (They were armed with AK's and couldn't break the weapons to bear effectively in that environment.)

That aside, you're probably just better off beating feet in today's environment unless someone really has it in for you.  If things really go downhill then..   Get better armament.~

[LdMorgan]

Ahem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SSOWORzw4

soup
 

I squirdid millg oud bi nodes.

[LdMorgan]

What's the pros and cons of a short spear for thrusting, rather than throwing, like the 36" Assegai from Cold Steel?  Seems like it would be easier for mere mortals to use effectively in tight quarters compared to a sword, while still providing excellent reach and wounding potential.

The Assegai (or Ixwa) is named after the sucking sound it makes when you pull it out of a man's belly.

In close quarters, I would be hard pressed to imagine a more deadly weapon.

The blade is so wide that any belly wound is almost always instantly incapacitating and quickly fatal.

The knobkerrie pommel of the traditional Zulu weapon allows excellent control even when the handle is slick with blood. It's also a striking surface.

There is a formal art to the use of the Assegai that is remarkably subtle and graceful--even as it is being employed with brutal efficiency.

While the heart thrust is the "sweet stroke", the tip will slit throats, the edge of the blade will lop off hands and arms--(and heads)--slash tendons at the back of the knee and at the ankle, and cut those pesky femoral arteries on the inside of the thigh with remarkable efficacy.

The pommel is great for smashing faces, shoulder joints, collarbones, and skulls, and is readily employed as a sedative when taking prisoners.

Facing a skilled opponent armed with an Assegai, I would want nothing less than full plate armor and a pair of spiked maces.

And fourteen friends.

And high ground.

And an air strike inbound.

The actual problem with a Assegai is that it is so efficient that even an untrained person can use one effectively, and they are damnably hard to defend against.

Even when you have a shield.

[FreeLancer]

The actual problem with a Assegai is that it is so efficient that even an untrained person can use one effectively, and they are damnably hard to defend against.

Sweet!!  With that endorsement, maybe I'll get a couple spares and update the shaft to a knobkerrie pommel.  I'm a sucker for all those crazy Cold Steel weapons, but that Assegai freaks me the hell out.

[metatron]

A paintball gun with rubber balls or the rubber coated steel balls are quite painful and with the rate of a paintball gun will drive people off. Not sure if you can get flash grenades where you are but they work a treat.

[DocRokRx]

Sweet!!  With that endorsement, maybe I'll get a couple spares and update the shaft to a knobkerrie pommel.  I'm a sucker for all those crazy Cold Steel weapons, but that Assegai freaks me the hell out.

thank God I'm good at controlling my urges to buy stuff, or I would own half their catalogue and a mountain of debt lol

[FrugalFannie]

My guess is if you are prohibited from owning a gun you may be prohibited from owning things like swords and tasers and possibly even pepper spray. So with that in mind I would suggest anything that would seem commonplace and not need "special permission" to own.

Heavy flashlight (like the long Mag Lites) - even a small one can be pocket carried and they are useful if the power goes out
baseball bats, hockey sticks, walking stick or even just a thick branch cut to size that costs you nothing
Kitchen knives
above all get some defensive training so your weapon doesn't get taken from your hands and used against you.

[Optix]

I got a rusty pitchfork..

[M.U.C.T]

a tomahawk is a great close quarters weapon for home defense another good one is a smaller machete like 16" don't want anything to long...True story Im a big martial arts enthusiast and sword practitioner I used to live in Bridgeport Ct which is a REAL bad neighborhood anyway I had some random guy walk into my house and up my stirs i came at him with one of my Katana and as I was coming down the stairs the damn thing hit the ceiling and got stuck luckily the screaming half naked white guy with a sword who lives in the projects was enough of a deterrent to send the guy running like hell

[Docwatmo]

luckily the screaming half naked white guy with a sword who lives in the projects was enough of a deterrent to send the guy running like hell

THAT is one of the greatest things I've read in a long time.   LOL


How about you swing by the intro thread and introduce yourself.  With posts like this to start off with, you have got to have some great experiences to share. 

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=89.4770

[jim124816]

I think the bat or baton would be good.  I am not too sweet on the knife because if the intruder also had a knife I would then find myself in a knife fight.  My understanding is that even those with some knife fighting training rarely come from a knife fight unscathed.  Of course this is really just academic for me, if I ever have an intruder, I will undoubtedly have a firearm. 

Then again, you sword guys may have the right idea.  A knife fight where your knife has 2 to 3 feet over the other guys knife makes for pretty good odds.

[Cedar]

When I was having issues with my ex (restraining orders don't work) and didn't have a gun at the time, I had a cheap can of hairspray at the side of my bed along with a cigarette lighter. I also had a baseball bat and a 4 tined pitchfork.

Cedar

[LdMorgan]

Well...after 380 posts in this thread, I think there's a good chance that our newer readers haven't read all the messages from start to finish---so I'm going to re-cap a post I made here quite a while ago.

A superb weapon for self-defense (in your house or on the street) is an ordinary child's squirt gun, loaded with plain household ammonia.

The range is far better than mace. The stream won't blow back in your face the way a cloud of spray may. It is very accurate, even at maximum range--which may be 15 yards or so.

It fires fast, you get a lot of shots, it's quiet, and doesn't have a muzzleflash to blind you at night.

And it's so easy to use a child can do it. Your child, if needs be.

It is not a firearm, so you can't be charged for failing to register it, or for using it within 250 feet of a dwelling (to wit: inside your house!). It also does not presume the use of deadly force the way a firearm does.

It takes exactly one (1) shot to the face to put any human on earth flat on the ground, crying for his mommie.

It will also stop a pack of dogs dead in their tracks.

A little ammonia will definitely do the job.

It's also cheap and easy to practice with. Just load it with water and start shooting.

One other thing: If it has that orange tip on it that is so tptally PC these days you can point it at an intruder and warn them you have a gun(!), and he will see what is obviously a toy gun and decide you are bluffing.

Even if they have a real gun themselves, they may laugh in your face and walk right up to you--giving you a shot that can't miss. (Testosterone would practically demand it.)

Go for the pukey fluorescent-green transparent squirt guns. They look really harmless.

[Roundabouts]

 It's not the size of the dog in the fight
 it's the size of the fight in the dog. 

Things I have thought about before we had guns.  Hubby worked grave yard or swing shift so I was home alone with the kids a lot.  Defense would depend on the point of entry where the kids were time of day or night.  Are the neighbors home?  I use to think about this a lot when we lived in the city.

extra large brass candle stick
escaping out a door or bedroom window Always sleep with shoes by my bed (at one time my high heals)
hiding in the attic false wall
hair spray
phone
good size rocks
fry pan
kitchen knife
laundry mat change in a sock by my bed
bright flash light
loud can air horn what ever they are called
wall mirror
vase  glass picture frame (basically any thing I could throw)
my purse ( alway carried a pad lock or something in it and it has a long handle)
blanket or towel  throw over them so I could get out or jump from behind and choke them
crank up the stereo as loud as it would go
throw light bulbs or kids legos / toys on the floor
wooden chair
walking stick
hanger
metal fingernail file

Never said any of these were good ideas just what I would think about as I was falling asleep.
 

Things that have been used
window air conditioner
fireplace poker
pan hot grease

Distance escape always first on my list before guns and even now that we have them.  I would rather not be around should an intruder show up inside.  No option have to fight or defend will do what I have to.  I wont hold back.  There is a lot of fight in this dog.  ( past experience it takes 3-4 grown men to pull me off someone but that's another story)

[Roundabouts]

Just talked to hubby and he said don't forget the dogs and their bark.  Yes dog can be good at alerting to trouble.  I have learned their someone is here bark from there is a animal in my yard bark.    Also each situation or scenario my require a different action. 

I did have to defend my dog against a coyote.  Orko was a small dog (yes from he-man cartoon) When I got out of the shower I heard a weird dog fight sound in the back yard.  I ran out and saw my dog being carried off.  I dropped my towel and grabbed a pot and metal spoon off the counter.  Took off out the door towards them  banging the spoon against the pot holding it up above my head and yelling as loud as I could.  We didn't have guns at that time.   It worked.  That was not a human intruder but an intruder none the less.  Even if we had had a gun I would not have had the time to grab it before my dog would have been killed.   Yes we do laugh about that still but at the time it scared the crap out of me and was not funny. 

[M.U.C.T]

THAT is one of the greatest things I've read in a long time.   LOL


How about you swing by the intro thread and introduce yourself.  With posts like this to start off with, you have got to have some great experiences to share. 

http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=89.4770

sure see you there

[Solaris]

I came across this conversation because I have had a few intruder scares and I had no conventional weapon on hand.  Fortunatly they were only scares and no conflict took place. 

The first of these scares went like this:
Someone was at the front door of my apartment trying to get in.  My wife and I got up in a hurry to defend our home.  between the two of us we came as prepared as possible to defend our children.  From our bedroom door you could almost see the entry way and between that 15 feet of distance was our dinning room table.  The door sounded like it was opening so I grabbed the closest projectile in arms reach.  The projectile turned out to be a gala apple.  What was flashing through my mind as I pictured an intruder rounding the corner by the door was bean this M-F'er in the face and charge lower the shoulder and drive his sorry ass into the wall and then pummel him to a bloody pulp.  Now then if that didn't work my wonderful wife was following with a cutco knife.  I am glad to know she had my back because we had no time, this person was coming in and they were not being sneaky about it they were just coming with no reluctance...  Luckily this person was just a drunk idiot and his girlfriend.   They had come to the wrong apartment and couldnt figure out why there key wasn't working.  The couple had been arguing on the way back from a bar came across a bunch of guys in the parking lot and began arguing with them. The guy got his ass kicked and was now standing on my porch bleeding all over the place literally.  This accounts for why they were so confused that 1) there key didn't work and 2) why the FK is this a$$hole (me) poking my head out of THIER apartment door?

The Second Scare came this evening.
A flashlight shone across our bedroom window from our backyard.  I again have no weapon so I quietly pick up a projectile (running shoe) and a hand to hand weapon (belt with heavy buckle).  Again fully prepared right? I am prepared at every one of my corners to check and clear with a combo of distraction.  Hurl the projectile at the intruders face.  Then follow with a buckle blow and the repeatedly beat the intruder until my wife arrives with more armaments.  Fortunately again there was no conflict.  I am not sure why my window was flashed with a light but it drove me to this thread to find a better weapon.

I know these are not ideal weapons or situations.  But in these experiences I find that a gun will be to slow.  I cant keep it loaded under my pillow I have kids.  It will never be ready fast enough for me to defend myself.  I found this thread because I was thinking Katana and like many post previous I agree is to long for indoors.  I was searching for the 3 blade sets with the Katana, Wakizashi, Tanto as i feel like the smaller two will be exactly what I would need.  After reading almost every post I think I am going to upgrade my 4D battery MAG light to the 6D and get a Katana, Wakizashi, Tanto.  If I feel threatened go for the Wakizashi/MAG light combo and give my wife the Tanto.  If I have to I can fling the sheath at the intruder, blind with the light, and use both as a weapon.  The power of confusion and follow up combinations before the intruder can figure out WTF is happening seems like the best defense.

I do believe that anything is a weapon.  If it is readily available it will save your life.  Guns are not practical if you have to keep them locked up.

[SheepdogSurvival]

+1 for an attack dog(s)

For stuff you can wield, I vote for the primary weapon to be a TOMAHAWK in your weapon(strong hand) and a K-BAR in your reaction hand.

The Tomahawk is a great weapon for a number of reasons.
-You use the same or similar motions when working with a hammer or axe so in theory you will have thousands of practice repetitions to hone your skill.
-Also when people are in a body alarm response mode in knife attacks they have a tendency instinctively to stab in downward (or chopping) motion despite it being less effective, which is obviously the more effective and proffered method of employing a tomahawk.
-If you have the element of surprise it is much easier in my estimation to achieve instant and silent incapacitation with a tomahawk in tight quarters by to striking the base of the skull/spine than other weapons.
-In a pinch a tomahawk maybe thrown effectively.

I chose the KBar as a secondary because if you are unfortunate and do not have the element of surprise and need to face off with an enemy combatant (etc.. you put your definition here, basically whoever the scumbag is who you're about to dispatch) then a kbar creates an increased effective range without being too cumbersome in tight spaces. It's ~6-7" blade is also plenty long to penetrate under the rib cage into the heart of said scumbag. The Kbar is also a pretty good stand alone weapon if something happened to your tomahawk.

If your where outside your home I think an decommissioned mosin nagant or similar rifle with an attached bayonet would become the primary, or a spear.

my 2cents.

[UDI-Joshua]

I realize this is an old post, but it’s a good one, just thought I would add my $.02.

Anyway, I have never really tried to rely on just one “go to” weapon for home defense even though I do have guns in my home. I personally have weapons throughout my house. If I were to focus on one weapon specifically as my weapon of choice then I may be too focused on getting to that weapon while under duress. Tachypsychia (adrenaline dump) has very strange effects on us psychologically as well as physiologically and we don’t always react the way we thought we would.

I like katanas, I have a really nice Paul Chen katana that I have trained with and used for cutting practice, it goes through a tatami mat with a dowel in the center of it like butter. But what if POS breaks in while I’m in the bathroom? Do I try to run to my katana? Or do I grab what I have available right there?

If I mentally chose a katana as my home defense weapon, then when faced with stressful situation my mind is going to start racing and wondering where my katana is and how do I get to it, instead of seeing the big heavy thing we have for holding extra toilet paper. If I get the drop on him and start whacking him with that I have a much better chance of success than if I start running to get my katana.

And don’t forget the power of keys, pens, pencils, rolled up magazines, credit cards, kitchen knives, any heavy object, bottles, broken broom handles, etc. Your house is filled with weapons, just grab the nearest one and start making stuff happen.

Of course like everyone else, I have stuff ready for deployment as well. I have pepper spray velcroed to our front door jam at eye level with the nozzle facing the door just in case POS tries pushing his way in. We can start spraying as we are pulling it off the wall. I have knives, sticks, etc around the house. I have the big 6D cell Mag Light near my bed, hold it on your shoulder with the light facing outward, couple quick flashes to disorient and then smack him like Babe Ruth. Quick note about Flashlights, never turn it on to look around the house, you will be telling him you are coming and where you are. Your eyes should already be accustomed to the dark, use that to your advantage. Go in silent and then surprise him with a couple quick flashes and then stars.

Anyway, sorry so long, it’s a good discussion and a good topic.

[JohnDoel]

I would use bear spray... mainly because I used it on a bear this summer and it dropped like a load of bricks and if it'll stop a bear at 15 or so feet away while its charging within a second of the stream hitting it I think I'll use it to stop a human attacker though Canadian laws make it something I would never use for EDC.

[osubuckeye4]

The true best home defense is not making your home a target.

If I had a dime for how many times my idiot neighbors and other friends of mine posted pictures and status updates from trips at remote locations (basically alerting any robber that their house was open and primed for robbing), I'd be a millionare.


Now, if you happen to be extremely unlucky and a robber legtiimately picks your home at random?

I'd recommend bear spray/pepper spray/mace. Why? Because they are easy to carry or place at high traffic areas (areas you are likely to be if an invader breaks into your home), and they are also things that your houseguests/kids can't kill themselves with.


As far as things like katana blades? I've always been of the believe that there is a much higher chance that one of your drunk buddies is going to ask to see/play with it and do a bunch of damage to your furniture than there is that you are actually going to slice a robber in half in legitimate self defense. That's just my opinon though and if someone wants to have a katana blade, more power to them.