Author Topic: What made you get into survivalism  (Read 20856 times)

Offline TXChikk

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2008, 06:20:33 AM »
We may go from 'Lame Duck' gov'ner to 'Downright Creepy of a Woman' gov'ner.....*sigh*

Pokethis

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2008, 12:03:41 AM »
LOL! :D  We'll just have to wait and see!

Offline bonnie

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2008, 04:11:24 PM »
I started thinking about this prior to Y2K.  I did some stocking up just prior to that.  I was single and still lived in town.  I actually didn't know much about what to do with the stuff I got but had instructions and could have figured it out if I would have had to. 

Since then I got married and we moved out of town on 30 acres that we inherited/purchased from his father's estate.  So it's where he lived since he was 5 years old. 

He ridicules my Y2K stash and is not interested in prepping but he is well prepared and self-sufficient anyway.  It's his nature.  He can fix or build anything.  He has a complete machine shop since he's worked a lot as a machinist.  He also has a complete woodshop and welding equipment.  We have 2 generators and he has a welder/generator on the back of his pickup.  We just survived a 52-hour power outage with 1 1/2 feet of snow, the most snow and coldest weather in Western Oregon in 40 years.  He spent most of his days running around on his 4-trax helping all the neighbors fix things and charge things.  Everyone on our road calls him when they need help, whether it's medical help (he was a volunteer fire fighter/1st responder for 18 years), repair help and  more.  He helped one of the farmers replace a bridge over the creek between two of his fields so his welder on the back of the pickup came in handy.  Another neighbor called him when his significant other's mom (who was also a neighbor), had fallen off a chair taking down some decorations, had bled a lot from her head and was refusing to go to the ER.  He grabbed his EMT kit, saying what do they think I am, a doctor?, and headed up there.

I buy and stash extra food without mentioning it to him so he won't make fun of me.

I do need lessons on taking care of things around here because if something happened to him, I'm not sure I could live here by myself.  I'm trying to get him to help me chose my own guns that are light enough for me.  I want a hand gun, a shotgun and a rifle.  I did get a lesson on turning the pumps and water heater back on after the power came back on.  We had a generator hooked up pumping water for awhile but then he took it off line and loaned it to a neighbor that needed it worse than us.

Lucretius

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2008, 09:27:41 AM »
I'm surprised that I'm #1 to mention this:

The zombies.  ::)

Offline 19kilo

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2009, 07:57:57 PM »
I'm surprised that I'm #1 to mention this:

The zombies.  ::)

Funny +1

I actually got serious into prepping from zombiesquad.  Those guys are pretty squared away.  Every forum I would go to seemed like it was a little too crazy for me. But somehow Zombiehunters.org got me hooked. ;)

libertymom

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2009, 09:33:45 PM »
Hi-brand new here.  I guess what got me into survivalism was just feeling like "something wasn't right" this summer in the news.  I'm not sure if it was any one event or just the idea that our liberties are quickly being taken away from us.  So, I started attending my local John Birch meetings and found out I'm not the only one who thinks this way.  Then, as the bailouts have been happening I just feel like we're in a spiral downward and I don't want to be caught in it.  Our family homeschools mainly for political reasons anyway so I guess recent events have just sent me 'over the edge'.
Now, I just feel like I can't prepare fast enough and need to figure out what to tackle next.

Offline Taylor3006

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2009, 09:39:28 PM »
I am with Lucretius, it was the impending zombie plague. Well that and the godless commies...
 

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2009, 04:01:05 PM »


I guess I started as a kid with four brothers living in the pine barrens of New Jersey.  I loved playing "army" & cowboys & Indians.  I use to help make forts & hid in the woods.  I learned to shoot from an old boy friend & an ex-husband use to take me hunting.  My present husband is a big outdoor kind of guy & we both hunt, plant a garden & store food.
   The thing that pushed us over was the Y2K.  We bought 45 acres in Pa. (the free state) with a pond & plenty of woods around.  When we 1st moved here you could walk around naked & see no body for days on end.  That was 1999 & we now have two neighbors about a mile away >:(   no more days naked in the sun...oh well.
    We have solar, a wind tower, a compost toilet, use a dutch oven & for heat, the wood stove does just fine.  We are TOTALLY independent & can stand alone when the s**t hits the fan.
     Now with the present power in Washington, we are stock piling food & ammo.  Took all the money out of the bank, paid off our credit cards & will plant a bigger garden & wait ti out.  YOU BETTER BE IN MY "FOX-HOLE" STATE OF MIND BEFORE YOU VENTURE UP MY HILL!!   I need people that can watch my back & I likewise without a hesitation.
   It's only going to get worse before it gets better....prepare Now!!   Foxy Huntress

Offline flagtag

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2009, 09:36:39 PM »
You got that right, Huntress!  There are a lot of nonbelievers out there and they will be the ones hurt the most.  They think that Obama is going to work miracles and that everything will be Rosy.  Although, I believe, that now some are "seeing the light".

Offline 19kilo

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2009, 10:51:10 PM »
What part of PA do you live in?

Offline Grasshopper2Ant

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2009, 03:49:51 PM »
I have been trying to move my family towards being more frugal for years, but my husband REALLY resisted and each time I just gave up.  Back in Sept/Oct when the economy really started tanking and when it seemed inevitable that Obama was going to become president, I really started to worry.  Once I started reading survival topics, I started feeling better.  I still think that it's going to get really bad, but I feel more in control.

My husband is now coming on board and is talking about spending our money on preps instead of gadgets. WOOHOO! ;D  The first thing I bought when I started were 10 Swedish Firesteels for starting fires.  I had read that one of the most important skills is to be able to start a fire.  I've bought a 50lb bag of Pinto Beans, 25lb bag of rice, 25lb bag of flour, etc.  I've started baking bread (kneading by hand) and I just received my Pressure Canner today, so I'm going to start canning meat - probably this weekend.  The next thing I want to get is a dehydrator and start drying foods.

Offline ebonearth

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2009, 08:29:02 PM »
My parents were always into doing things themselves while I was growing up. Then when I moved out of my own I forgot some of those lessons until right around Y2K when being smack in the true heart of Manhattan was probably the last place an Ant ever wanted to be. In February of 2000 I was sitting in my office when my bosses phone rang, I got up from my desk to answer the call, moments later a pipe bomb went off across the street blowing in an eight foot sheet of glass right where I was sitting moments before. I was the only one on the entire floor and my window was only one of two that got blown in. Considering those odds it's a wonder that save some tiny cuts and some debris in my eyes I emerged unscathed. That was my wakeup call.

Mind you in comparison to what happened in September of the following year up the street from where I worked, a small bomb is a drop in the bucket. On that morning I had a flight booked into LaGuardia but I had decided on a whim to take a bus the night before and visit some friends in Cleveland then bus into NYC from there. Guess where I was when the first plane hit? In the middle of Lincoln Tunnel about to arrive at Port Authority. It was interesting trying to hike down into the Financial District to get home with my duffel bag, I realized that home was a poor choice so I made it to work instead, slept under my desk for three days. At least I packed!

After that I figured whoever was watching over me was probably getting tired of saving my bacon and I better get ready to save my own. So here I am, saving my own bacon.


Offline sneauxball

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2009, 06:27:05 PM »
I grew up on the farm, grandma had 200 acres and my parents bought some of that land.  I was able to ride my horse to my grandmother's house and play in the woods every day.  I helped out in the garden, with the cattle, horses, pigs, chickens, rabbits, etc.  while my sister stayed inside and "played school."  she's a teacher now, I turned 18 and had to "see the world."   I spent a decade in surrounding cities and met me a city boy from Alabama.  We got married and had a baby while still in Birmingham, but something about having a child made me NEED to come back home.  We are now living on a portion of that original 200 acres.  He is adapting quite well, but is resisting a bit regarding the chickens ;D   For a number of years I've had the desire to get back to basics and he prepared for anything, but it's only recently that I've felt such an urgency, and luckily had the space to act upon it.   

It also helps that every year during hurricane season, my region of southeast Louisiana turns into a mini "survivor minded community."  It's completely normal for folks to stock up and prep for the storms and the aftermath of no power, water pressure or possibly no access to roads.  Last year during Gustav was a bit nuts.  My folk's generator went out and they took a run to brookhaven, MS to find one....and i'm getting off topic. 

have i said that i really like this forum and it's great to be here?

Offline eph2

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2009, 09:57:26 AM »
I remember my grandfather talking about the Great Depression and how the only things they purchased were sugar and salt.  Everything else was grown or made on the homestead.  He might have exagerated some, but not much.  My extended family continued to live on a communal piece of property where they produced their own food.  That always appealed to my very independent nature.  That, and all of the edible goodies just a hand's reach away! :D

Also, I lived on the island of Guam for 7 years.  The power went off almost every day.  In the early years, decent produce was only available right after a shipment came in.  After typhoons water would be off for weeks and power for months.  People groaned a bit but were mostly prepared to deal with the situation.  When you're on an island you realize that consumer goods are always in limited supply.

I like the freedom that comes with being self-sufficient.


Bowieschewtoy

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2009, 05:31:42 PM »
For me it started with my husband.  I thought 'OK it won't hurt to stock up a little on certain things.'  He has had a history with buying twenty cans of something nobody in the house will eat just because it's on sale.  So as long as he buys stuff we eat OK.  After seeing the aftermath of Katrina it couldn't hurt to have extra water etc........After Obama was elected I went a little nuts with paranoia.  I came across websites such as infowars.com and worldnetdaily and came to the realisation that our government could care less about us as citizens. I feel things are going to get way worse before they even think of getting better and I am going to do everything within my ability to keep my family safe and fed. ;D

amberwolf

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2009, 10:55:16 AM »
It's always been on my mind to stock up. I did grow up in northern Indiana were we had plenty of snow fall and plenty of days of not being able to get out. But my dad would have plenty of herbs and roots, pickles, dried meat, mushrooms etc...Mom was more of a if-it-doesn't-say-Libby's-it ain't-edible. Mom didn't trust our wild mushroom picking for sure! It's the feeling of having something to eat and drink when the power is off, or something keeping you warm when the furnace breaks. I'm just not relying on anything to continue working- I've broke any dependency I may have developed and have a plan B in place for just about everything now.

MightyRunt

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2009, 01:06:15 PM »
My parents were teenagers during the depression and young adults during WW2, then newlyweds in 1945 right after the war. They were natural preppers from those experiences. Some of my fondest childhood memories are of 'disaster' periods like a 3' snowfall that knocked out the electricity for a week when I was 6. Daddy had gathered 2x4 scraps from all the new home construction in the neighborhood for a woodpile, and we ate on the cardtable in front of the fireplace and did puzzles and read by candlelight. I'd guess it didn't seem anywhere near as fun for my parents, but I loved the adventure of it.  Snow still makes me all warm and fuzzy.
     Later in life I subscribed to "The Tightwad Gazette" for years, then Backwoods Home magazine. Frugality and self-sufficiency just seemed like the intelligent nature of things. And I could have taught Martha Stewart a thing or 2 back in my superwoman twenties.  It was all a great adventure to be as independent as possible - to be a grown up. It was an adventure to learn new things like shooting and hunting and fishing.  Every new step forward made me realize tht I am responsible for me and mine. No one else is responsible for me and my well-being.  And it kind of takes me by surprise that all women don't have that ingrained bitch-wolf-mother instinct to persevere at all costs. But then, one of my favorite t-shirts says "Why be normal?"
     In 1996 DH and I built a house off-grid and off-road and got livestock, and by Y2K we couldnt' have cared less about Y2K.  In 2002 there was a major wildfire that started 1/2 mi from us and lots of friends got evacuated, with 10-15 min notice and police escorts. Some ended up crashing here.  I guess it was that event that turned just common sense stocking up into Survivalism.   That was  my personal first-hand introduction to the idea that TPTB could turn an otherwise relatively minor event into a major fustercluck of a disaster.  9/11 had planted the seed, but until  there's eyewitness proof in your own backyard, one tends not to want to believe the worst.  After Katrina, any tiny smidgeon of doubt about the future was erased. In 2005 I discovered survivalblog.com and haven't looked back. We are on our own fellow travelers.

Offline TXChikk

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2009, 02:44:48 PM »
ingrained bitch-wolf-mother instinct

Yeah, I noticed a general lack of this too......

Offline mrs gator

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2009, 04:46:44 PM »
Yeah, I noticed a general lack of this too......

I will be the first to admit, I'm lacking this.

I have intuition with people close to me, but not on a grand scale. I'm not sure why that is though.

I don't feel a sudden fear or urge, but I am still prepping...

I dunno. Maybe I'm not a real woman  :'(

MightyRunt

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2009, 05:03:08 PM »
I dunno. Maybe I'm not a real woman  :'(
Please forgive me if I made any such implication with my post! It wasn't meant as criticism of anyone or to be hurtful.  I do think that with generations of prosperity and security it has been largely bred out of us in the civilized world.  Most of us have never known any reason for deep seated fear of the world around us.  I think I'm the one out-of-step with what's been called my "apocalyptic thinking". But, you see, I'm so darned ordinary that it still comes as a surprise to me that everyone isn't like me.  :-[

Offline fngrlickingood

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2009, 01:46:11 AM »
My husband is who/what got me started with the survivalist mindset. To be honest in the beginning I got scared, really scared... we kept listening to these really doom and gloom scary type "the end is coming" podcasts (not this one) and reading horrible stuff about our corrupt government, etc. etc. I got so scared and upset with the feeling of not being in control of my life and not knowing who I could trust, etc. etc. that I just stopped listening to it all and kind of crawled under a rock for a month or two (I know, lame). Then my husband came across The Survival Podcast and all that changed. I got excited about someone who didn't strike fear into my heart (thanks Jack!) but still taught the importance of prepping, stocking up, and always being as prepared as possible whether SHTF or not.

Offline mrs gator

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2009, 11:16:46 AM »
Please forgive me if I made any such implication with my post! It wasn't meant as criticism of anyone or to be hurtful.  I do think that with generations of prosperity and security it has been largely bred out of us in the civilized world.  Most of us have never known any reason for deep seated fear of the world around us.  I think I'm the one out-of-step with what's been called my "apocalyptic thinking". But, you see, I'm so darned ordinary that it still comes as a surprise to me that everyone isn't like me.  :-[

Haha, I think a lot of has to do with the way I was raised. I'll be the first to admit that I was a spoiled brat who didn't have a care in the world...

Fast forward quite a few years and now I do realize that things are quite peachy like I grew up thinking they were. I know things are going bad in the world right now, but I don't get the warning bells going off. I guess in my head, it will happen when it happens. Could be gradual, or it could be sudden. I don't know  :-\

Offline monkeyboyf

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2009, 01:52:09 PM »
I'm really trying to think and learn from all of you.  It is such a good source for info.  Maybe someone will help me solve a dilemma have been wrestling with for a while.  I have some liquid assets,lol, but should I turn them into SHTF supplies beyond food,fuel, ammo,and other necessities? Mainly, filling the propane tank (250 gal) when it is down in price since I only use it for a blueflame heater in the winter instead of central(electric)heat.  It's at $1.90 right now, and will probably go up if I don't fill.  Just hate to spend my rathole if I don't have to right now.  Any suggestions? You are all the greatest!

lady_carpediem

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2009, 08:37:55 PM »
Why I got into survivalism....
 I did my practicum at the American Red Cross. Talk about learning from others preperations and some unfortunate mistakes. 
And it is my husband and my dream of living off the grid. I love to start looking at other people's suggestions. This is my first post and don't have a lot of spare time. (My husband is on her a lot more often!) I usually listen to the podcasts while working! Thanks Jack! You Rock!

Offline Darkwinter

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2009, 08:40:40 PM »
I actually got into prepping after 911 because our government told us to

www.ready.gov


Offline ebonearth

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2009, 09:42:45 PM »
I'm really trying to think and learn from all of you.  It is such a good source for info.  Maybe someone will help me solve a dilemma have been wrestling with for a while.  I have some liquid assets,lol, but should I turn them into SHTF supplies beyond food,fuel, ammo,and other necessities? Mainly, filling the propane tank (250 gal) when it is down in price since I only use it for a blueflame heater in the winter instead of central(electric)heat.  It's at $1.90 right now, and will probably go up if I don't fill.  Just hate to spend my rathole if I don't have to right now.  Any suggestions? You are all the greatest!
Boy I don't know what to tell you, considering what the economical prognosticators say (not that they are always right) and the way things are I would certainly consider fueling up. I know I am about to purchase my first LP tank and I have been shopping around for propane and it all seems to be right about $1.899 here as well. Why they insist on the tenth of a penny I'll never understand. I know I'm filling up to full and I only use it for cooking and the dryer, although we are installing the clothesline next week so the latter will be used less. I have to say that getting a tank put in is a pain, the local LP providers will not fill a new tank without a bill of sale or if it is theirs. If I do have a bill of sale I have to still pay them to check it (which I don't mind). Before I digress completely off the rails, I say fill up if you can. If you cannot, try requesting a partial fill, that way you hedge your bets against price hikes and future inflation but don't completely drain your currency stores. Good luck!



Offline monkeyboyf

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2009, 02:48:01 PM »
Thanks for th reply, ebonearth. Think I put this in the wrong topic to begin with.  The thread was what made us get into survivalism, well, it's just common sense if you listen and see what is going on around us.  This is the most informative forum , and Jack is great!
Judi

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2009, 04:29:24 PM »
On stocking up on food: I am LDS/Mormon, and stocking up has always just been a way of life with me.  Growing up, we always had a large store of food downstairs - store bought and home-canned, depending on the item.  About 2 years ago when we moved to a larger house (and a larger income), I started buying that 1-yr supply I have always been told to have by my church.  i remember I bought 6-gal buckets of wheat oats and rice for 13.99.  10 months later those SAME buckets were $46 (they have since dropped back down to $26... definitely more reasonable, but still twice what I paid).  I kicked myself for not having bought more at the cheaper price, but I felt rather extravagant with 8 buckets as it was!  But for all the talk in the LDS church about being stocked up, I do not think too many members are ready for a year.  No one talks about their supplies, just how to do it, sometimes what you can make with beans or wheat, but to admit that you have your year's supply is almost to say that you are holier than someone else who does not.

On the coming Depression: I am a reader and a student of history.  And anyone who has read even fiction books about the 20/30's can (or could, if they wanted to) see the similarities between then and now.  In college, one of the best classes I ever took was a semester-long study of the decade 1890s.  Holy Cats!  the similarities between then and now (or rather, the late 90's when I was there) is staggering.  and it was in the 1890s that the groundwork was laid for the crash in the 20s.  That helped a lot.
Something that struck me as a girl was how many people lost their homes to foreclosure in the depression, and when we bought our first house, it was with the understanding that we would pay it off quickly.  We were there 5 years, and had it all but paid for (would have in 5 more months) when we moved for work.  Silly us, we bought a bigger mortgage.  But, positive - it is on 12 acres in the middle of nowhere on a dead end 5-house road with good, independent-minded neighbors.  But, although we have the house 1/3 paid for (Thanks to our previous house sale), the mortgage we have keeps me up at night thinking of those families in the depression.

On gardening and being self-sufficient: the food recalls, the stories of teeth/fingers/ etc in cans of soup.  Also Upton Sinclair's novel _The Jungle_  that makes me say "I want to know what I am eating and where it came from."    I also know that food grown at home tastes better.  I just wish I could actually get some food from a garden!!!  my last 4 gardens have been dismal failures for one reason or another.  But hope springs eternal, and I am planting again this year. The idea of looking at my children and saying "I have no food for you, and no way to procure any" keeps me trying.  And dh has softened on the chicken stance.  Now I just need a coop.   :)

Offline rustyknife

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2009, 10:39:17 PM »
As a kid I grew up on the Crow Indian Reservation in SE Montana. Survivalism seemed to be everywhere. Early on I became fascinated with the American Indian way of life. After that it seemed that there were too many duck and cover things going on and I started thinking about how can I survive without access to normal stuff. Hunting, fishing and general bushcraft played at big part also.

Gloria

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Re: What made you get into survivalism
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2009, 02:10:41 PM »
I was a young wife in the California delta and the National Guard came to the house and said that the levy up the road was starting to break could we feed the workers?  My thought was with what?  the rain continued and the levels all around us started to give way.  Then I was toted out of the house and my new life by the National guard unit that was trying to save the islands and the delta area.  I didn't have a toothbrush even.  That was in 1975.  I have lived through five floods, one tornado (driving truck), freezing rain that caused a power out and I was in the truck on the freeway for hours in one spot, earthquakes, divorce, death of family members, and being ran over and then backed over by a semi truck during desert storm.  I have learned prepping a little at a time.  I didn't know I was into survivalism until someone else told me that I was.  I ran into my husband crying and asked him do you think I am a survivalist?  Yes dear you are, but dear that is not a bad think.  After all we eat when the electric goes off, and we have blankets on the beds when the heat goes off and we have other things when the other people don't care about doing something until it's to late.  Oh!  The next day an article on MSN news about survivalist and the economy came up and I read it and found a whole world of pepole like me.  I carry a potty purse in the car and truck because you never know where the urge might strike and with little kids... I have the Bug out bags in the car as well as a tent and folding chairs.  The boys, now grown and the grand babies which have now each have a PMSS bag. I put a lunch basket in the vehilclel each time we go somewhere just in case we get stuck in where ever... like three weeks ago in a traffic jam because a truck caught on fire and his load went over the side of the mountain and the freeway was closed for six hours...I found the ready gov site for the FFAK and filled it out and sent one copy to each of the family members I am trying to convert to being prepared.  Then I read that passports were going to be necessary so I have the papers ready and will be getting them soon you never can tell if you might need them.  I never really thought about the things I can do until I read this site and the list is I can,  I learned because that is what my grandmothers, mother and aunts did during the summer so we could eat in the winter, I haven't learned to meat can but I have a mentor that is couching me, I went to cooking school and learned a long time ago how to bake bread by hand and how to feed people on next to nothing.  That was the restaurant cooking classes for catering.  Then I learned how to sew, tailor, knit, crochet, take photographs in black and white and develop them and how to do leather and make this from nothing.  I was the head of a group that did trash to treasure before all this green stuff came about.  I learned how to drive, fly, sail, fish, and camp.  I camped ever summer all summer when I started at the age of 7.  I would hike and backpack during the other parts of the year.  I had to learn to shoot for my job driving truck.  I was trained in self defence mainly because they wanted the loads protected.  I grew up gardening and lived on the family farms until I was married and we lived on his families grounds in the middle of nowhere.  I now live with my second husband on three plus some off a long dirt road and into the hill side.  We moved out of the mobile home part to here because we have horses.  We planted fruit trees and have tried gardening here.  This area of the desert is not forgiving but my small plants have sprouted up and they like the containers.  This year I am praying for more than the dogs getting to eat the fruit of the berries and the tops of the plants, like it's made for them. LOL  I also have had my own business for years since 1975 altering and making clothes.  I prepare because the alternative is going hungry, thirsty, and no clothes.  I hang the clothes outside on the line.  I have camping equipment and I'm looking into turning my exercise bike into how to power the sewing machine.  Thanks Jack you rock  To the others helping you rock too.  I am continuing to prep because I want to be like the five of the ten virgins who were ready when the bridegroom came and they got in, also She looks well to the ways of her house.