Author Topic: economics of .45acp and 9mm  (Read 7586 times)

Offline Smurf Hunter

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economics of .45acp and 9mm
« on: August 13, 2014, 09:38:13 AM »
Assumptions:

.45ACP FMJ (ball) is generally considered appropriate for self-defense, so practice and carry ammo may be the same
9mm FMJ is less effective than modern 9mm JHP that are widely available today, implying different practice and carry ammo

I got the following prices from bulkammo.com.  I did my best to compare within the same brands and package quantity.

practice cost per round | defense cost per round | cost for 500 rounds of training | cost for 100 rounds carry ammo | total ammo cost
9mm$0.25$0.75$125.00$75.00$200.00
.45acp$0.50$0.50$250.00$50.00$300.00
      
This is a long way of saying that most of your ammo cost is spent practicing and only the wealthiest of folks shoot hundreds upon hundreds of premium SD rounds.

I did not intend to compare the merits of the cartridges, but I am interested if people agree with these basic figures.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 09:44:18 AM by Smurf Hunter »

endurance

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 09:57:10 AM »
I agree.  I burn through about four magazines of carry ammo a year to make sure it feeds well and that I'm comfortable with the difference.  Otherwise, I shoot about 1,500 rounds a year including classes of reloads.  Of course I bought my reloads in 2010 or 2011 and only paid $164/1,000 at the time, but that gravy train is nearing its end.  I'm going to need to start buying some new ammo soon or find somewhere I can reload. 

Offline Sephiroth

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 10:18:08 AM »
One of the reasons i had to choose .45ACP here in Brazil.

When i look at CBC ammo, the 9mm has differences between FMJ and HP... The .45ACP almost has none. I wanted a 9mm, but this is one of the reasons i am going down the .45ACP road. Maybe if i were going to CC it would be a diferent story...

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 10:29:21 AM »
Yes.  I see the attributes of a concealed carry gun being rather different from a "bump in the night" gun.  For the latter I am willing to accept something big and heavy if it offers other advantages (accuracy, firepower, bigger cartridge).

But in all cases, we need to budget for training.

Offline Carl

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 11:04:05 AM »
With the currently available defense ammo available  there is only a percentage point or two between 9 mm,40 cal,and 45 ACP and I have guns capable of firing these and 10 MM,38 super,38 spec wadcutter .30 carbine,30 Mauser,380, 9x18 all in 1911 format and also several Rugers, Sigs,Colt double eagles,glocks...etc etc... But my daily carry is a Ruger 5 shot .357 (in the pocket,de horned hammer)and a rossi 15 inch stainless leaver gun for plenty of power without TACTICAL APPEARANCE the guns are low key but the carbine is almost 30-30,or 7.62 x 39 power level and more power than the typical 5.56 AR round at a way lower cost to use.

The AR(5.56) does not qualify to hunt dear in most all states ...DEER DON"T SHOOT BACK!


Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 11:58:06 AM »
Next emergency let's all head to Carl's place.  As long as his 120lbs. dog doesn't eat us, we'll be safe from the zombies.   ;D

As much fun as the AR15 hobby can be, .223 is one of the worst ROI for handloaders.  I can buy new russian steel cased .223 cheaper than I can buy the components (aside from brass).  It's also a PITA due to the smaller bullet, and NATO 5.56 brass has to be worked over a bit before it's usable.  There are still strategic reasons to have the handloading capability for all your cartridges, but cost savings don't always work out as hoped.


Offline Carl

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 01:07:05 PM »
Next emergency let's all head to Carl's place.  As long as his 120lbs. dog doesn't eat us, we'll be safe from the zombies.   ;D

As much fun as the AR15 hobby can be, .223 is one of the worst ROI for handloaders.  I can buy new russian steel cased .223 cheaper than I can buy the components (aside from brass).  It's also a PITA due to the smaller bullet, and NATO 5.56 brass has to be worked over a bit before it's usable.  There are still strategic reasons to have the handloading capability for all your cartridges, but cost savings don't always work out as hoped.

Sell that AR and get TWO Rossi leaver guns in 357 magnum...look at the cost of the 38/357 compared to most any other 1000 foot pound PLUS capable cartridge.The leaver gun is easy to carry and use,not sensitive to ammo and dust/dirt and ,well...it makes a bigger permanent hole in the bad guys.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 02:20:06 PM »
One of my favorite full house magnum loads is h110 with a 125gr JHP.  Out of a 6" revolver that little dude screams.  Something like a loud muscle car - it turns heads at the range.
I'm unsure of my ability to accurately shoot something that hot in a self-defense encounter, so I usually load .38+p for the pocket wheel gun. 

For general revolver plinking I like IMR TrailBoss with 158gr LSWC.  If I cast my own, costs less than $0.10 per round at retail prices.  It's also affordable and easy to stock up enough components for thousands of rounds like that (and I have). 

For the handloading geeks and cheapskates, here's my cost breakdown for 1000 powder puff .38 special rounds:

$35 for 1000 CCI primers
$25 for 9oz jar of TrailBoss powder (9oz or ~4000 grains in the jar divided by 3 grains powder charge)
$30 for 20lbs. of lead ingots (@ $1.50/lbs shipped from eBay)

There's some expense for bullet lube and energy to melt the lead I guess, but it's miniscule.

Offline TiredOldGrunt

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2015, 05:41:49 PM »
Ive recently split the difference and went .40, its powerful enough for self defense, small enough to fit in a standard frame (and grip), and cheap enough to bank & reload.

TOG


Offline vivificus

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2015, 10:35:55 AM »
Can anyone explain why there is such a difference in 9mm SD vs practice and not in 45?

 I have been using Freedom Munitions lately, $209.65 for new 115gr 9mm, $194 for remanufactured. No trouble with them so far.

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2015, 11:58:26 AM »
Last practice ammo I bought for .45acp was 48 cents a round. The last SD ammo I bought was $1.49 a round. That seems like a pretty big difference to me.

Offline vivificus

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2015, 12:14:37 PM »
That's more along the lines of what I thought. The original post said both are 49ยข per round, but maybe I misread it. That is why I ask...

Offline TexDaddy

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 12:16:56 PM »
That's what he said, but I have never seen SD .45acp for less than $1.25 a round, and that was awhile back.

Offline vivificus

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 12:27:52 PM »
I agree with you TexDaddy, I have never seen 45 SD at that price. Wish I could though!

Offline Gulo gulo

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2015, 01:51:42 AM »
Can anyone explain why there is such a difference in 9mm SD vs practice and not in 45?

 I have been using Freedom Munitions lately, $209.65 for new 115gr 9mm, $194 for remanufactured. No trouble with them so far.

It's not, .45 shooters suffer from the same itis as .308 shooters (mea culpa), "it's bigger, so it must be better!"
.45 HPs are definitely better than .45 FMJ for self defense. .45 FMJ is slightly better than 9mm fmj. 9mm HPs (especially bonded bullets) are better than .45 FMJ and on par with .45 HPs for self defense. Shoot what makes you happy.

Offline Mortblanc

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2015, 02:23:39 PM »
You can buy something that is almost as good as the .45, is engineered to equal the .45 with the proper ammo,
preforms on a par with the .45, or if you put five rounds into them it is just as good as one hit from a .45.


Or you can buy a .45.

Offline TiredOldGrunt

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Re: economics of .45acp and 9mm
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 07:08:09 PM »
Just get a .40 and reload for it... Its just about as inexpensive as a 9, has just about the FtLbs of a .45, fits in the hand well and works a treat.

The .40 is a straight walled cartridge (like the .45) and is easy enough to reload a little girl can do it.  Not very expensive so why worry with either 9 or 45?

Of course, this post is playing devil's advocate....  I do like the 40, it splits the difference and is a fine round.  I mention it to stimulate thought, and point out there *is* a middle ground!

TOG