Author Topic: Dabbling in wind power maybe..  (Read 16807 times)

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« on: August 11, 2015, 08:24:00 PM »
The winds are 5-10mph most of the day, each day, for the last week from 4am to 11 pm.
My needs will be small.. radio, laptop, lights.

Maybe down the road go hybrid solar/wind...  will be running a fridge, a freezer and a washer. Everything else will run off propane.

What do I need to accomplish this? Brands? What KW will I need? Is there a plug and play system? Inverter? How many 12 vt batteries? and all the questions I am not currently asking.

When I was in Canada, I had people I know who ran an entire 'normal' house, with the world's largest flatscreen, their entire shop with welders, and other shop type tools off their system and they were 40 miles from the nearest utility pole in northern BC.

What do I need to accomplish this? Do I need to acquire an electrical degree? Do I need to import TG for a week?

Thank you,
Cedar

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 08:56:19 PM »
Ok.. found this..
http://apps2.eere.energy.gov/wind/windexchange/pdfs/small_wind/small_wind_guide.pdf

A 1.5- kW wind turbine will meet the needs of a home requiring 300 kWh per month in a location with a 14-mile-per-hour (6.26-meters-per-second) annual average wind speed. My locale is more than that annual average.

It drops way low in July and August and picks back up, but maybe that is where the solar hybrid can work its way in?


Cedar
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 09:02:10 PM by Cedar »

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 13105
  • Karma: 714
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 05:08:13 AM »
I have not found a consumer level wind generator that was not HIGH MAINTENANCE as they are exposed and require motion to produce energy.Compare it to your auto which averages 2500 hours to run 100,000 miles...your wind generator runs THREE TIMES AS LONG EACH YEAR! Here is a bit of reading on the subject,while wind is good,it needs more care than a typical solar setup...

 http://renewwisconsin.org/wind/Toolbox-Homeowners/Operation%20and%20maintenance%20costs.pdf

Offline r_w

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1262
  • Karma: 35
  • On my way
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 05:36:58 AM »
Solar is already better, cheaper, lower maintenance.

Size everything for solar, then add a small (relatively) low maintenance wind turbine for the weeklong cloudy spells. 

You need to build it to handle your storm peak wind speeds, which can get complicated.

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 07:20:52 AM »
Solar is already better, cheaper, lower maintenance.

I was initially thinking 100% solar, but I have more wind days than sunny days. Which is why I was considering hybrid. From what I have been reading, you only maintenance a wind generator once a year?

Cedar

d3nni5

  • Guest
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 07:49:01 AM »
 :popcorn:

I say you layer these, solar and wind.   But don't know how.   Going to eavsdrop on this thread.

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2015, 08:45:18 AM »
These are the companies which are currently certified by the Small Wind Certification Council. Many sources say you should only buy a system which has been certified by them.
http://smallwindcertification.org/certified-small-turbines/ and http://smallwindcertification.org/

This is one I am half through which explains how wind generation works. In Oregon and Washington we have HUGE wind farms. That said, we are also getting huge solar farms. I drove past one yesterday which might be 10-15 acres.
http://apps2.eere.energy.gov/wind/windexchange/pdfs/small_wind/small_wind_guide.pdf

Part of the reason I was thinking of going wind, was I do not have a building yet, and I do not want solar panels on the ground. But need to recharge my 12 volt system. I also do not have a gas generator. Most things I will be running propane... ie refrigerator, heat, cooking, hot water.

Eventually I do want to go off grid when I have my permanent home for SP and I. I want to be environmentally friendly, I don't want to have to depend on PGE. I don't want an electric bill. I saw how my friends who were on alternative power lived, I have seen the small community of Elkhorn thrive since the 1860's having electric produced on site when most of Oregon still was without. I saw my friends and acquaintances have way more electric than they knew what to do with in the middle of nowhere and have more electrical gadgets and such which would make "The Joneses" green with envy.

I am not saying I *AM* going to do wind generation, but the thought is really piquing my interest. Yeah.. the power line from the road to where I need it to go to my (eventual) building, is about 50-60 feet away. One of the systems I am looking at (just looking) is around $9,000 for the PV, wind generator, the tower, batteries, battery cable pairs, concrete and so forth. If I just go with the electric company, it would cost me $50 for the electrical permit, around $200 for hookup, and then a monthly bill of less than $40. Certainly not overly cost effective, as over a ten year span that would be $75 a month.... but from other standpoints, like if there was an issue with the grid, environmental and so forth, it very well may be worth it.

I say you layer these, solar and wind.   But don't know how.   

Here is a picture for you MSP




If I just went solar, I figure I am going to use about 30kwh per day, if my math is right (and I do suck at math by the way). I would like to estimate high. I just grabbed this listing, as it was a kit all put together sans batteries. It is also expandable. In 2013, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. residential utility customer was 10,908 kilowatthours (kWh), an average of 909 kWh per month.
http://www.costco.com/Grape-Solar-400-Watt-Off-Grid-Solar-Panel-Kit.product.100049288.html?catalogId=10701&keyword=off+grid&langId=-1&storeId=10301&refine= Just this basic small system will provide approximately 1,200 Watt Hours or 100 Amp Hours of charge per day. So I figure this system will give me 1200 watts hour = 1.2 kilowatt hours. I need 30 kwh.. so 6-7 more panels (so about $1,500 more dollars plus cables at $42 per set) and who knows how many more batteries. I am guessing 8-12. Am I right? Remember, my math skills are pathetic.


Cedar
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 09:15:26 AM by Cedar »

Offline 4bull

  • The Pumpkin Whisperer
  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
  • Karma: 70
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2015, 09:07:52 AM »
B

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 13105
  • Karma: 714
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 09:21:48 AM »

d3nni5

  • Guest
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 01:14:31 PM »
nice, incorporates a genny too.   are you going totally off grid or just considering it?

Offline 12th man

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 01:22:22 PM »
I researched this quite a bit years ago...

Are you going to be connected to the grid? If yes, find the best incentive (tax brake or refund) out there. might be solar, might be wind. They wont let you connect to the grid without an inspection and certification, so you will need to hire someone to do it anyways.

If you are off grid...the wind generator is the least of your concerns. its the batteries and inverter control system that really costs a lot. Once you have that settled you can hook up anything to it quite easily, wind, solar, ???

I was interested in wind because i could build my own generation device(s). once i got past that and started looking at the equipment/inspections required to connect it, it didn't make sense financially.  If you are off grid, its big bucks and will take a long time to recoup vs a generator and energy efficient house. if you are on grid you will pay out the nose to get the 'certified' installers to do it for you, so it only makes sense if there is a good government incentive.

Of course -'It Depends' - if you are talking a 500sqft super efficient cabin the whole financial dynamic changes. And if you are going to have to pay to install Power from a mile way...it Depends.

What i have considered, but not researched, is a compromise of both...get get government incentive, but install switch gear so you can divert it to a secondary off grid system. maybe it goes in later, maybe it is a small battery bank for short term outages. then you could have the option of adding more 'cheap' generation devices to the battery system. if you ever get the money, or it becomes financially preferable, you can increase the battery system and go completely off grid.

for low wind speeds look at vertical axis generators.

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 02:12:08 PM »
nice, incorporates a genny too.   are you going totally off grid or just considering it?

Are you going to be connected to the grid?

If I am going to bother going part alternative energy, I believe I will be going full out, so yes, I will be going off-grid. My electrical needs are about 1/3 less than the average American family, I believe. The main drain would be my egg incubators. If I get the system, and I knew batteries and an inverter were going to be the most expensive parts, then I can add on as required.. and then I can move my system over to my cabin when it is built. It figure it will be at least two years, maybe three before I would need to move it. The whole thing may be totally cost prohibitive right now, but in the meanwhile as I have slack time, I may as well study up.

My heater, cooking (oven and stove), water heater, refrigerator are propane. Lights, laptop, SP's iPad, maybe a food processor, maybe a washer, maybe a freezer are what would take electric. I will be using a generator for building projects, and any possible topping up batteries.

I figured I was looking at least $800-1,200 in batteries. I believe I would get sealed ones, so I can keep them where they would be warmer.

Cedar

Offline backwoods_engineer

  • Survivalist Mentor
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Karma: 43
  • An engineer trying to get back to the woods
    • Backwoods Engineer's Blog
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 03:53:30 PM »
Do I need to acquire an electrical degree? Do I need to import TG for a week?

Not necessary, but I suspect the latter would be a) highly enlightening, and based on my good impressions of her character from her posts on the Forum, b) likely a good time!

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 04:11:35 PM »
Not necessary, but I suspect the latter would be a) highly enlightening, and based on my good impressions of her character from her posts on the Forum, b) likely a good time!

It would be a hoot to have her up here!!

Cedar

Offline 12th man

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 01:25:35 PM »
If you will be building from scratch and going off grid, consider how much you can do with solar water. Put radiant water heat in, doesn't have to be pipes in the floor, i am using radiators in each room to cut down the cost. I am putting in a GSHP this year to replace the old oil boiler, but next year will be the solar water. which i will integrate with the GSHP. Now that i am too deep into it to turn back, i have wondered if i should have gone totally solar and used a propane water heater as back-up.

i think this is the best value out there. for a reasonable investment all of your hot water and heating needs are virtually free.

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2015, 01:43:10 PM »
If you will be building from scratch and going off grid, consider how much you can do with solar water.

This will not be possible for a few years, but something to file away in my postem notes in the brain.

Cedar

Bonnieblue2A

  • Guest
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2015, 08:28:09 AM »
link to an off-grid Arkansas homestead using hybrid solar and their later addition of two small wind turbines.  They have several videos on the channel addressing their wind power installation.   

https://youtu.be/gPxXwZym3II

Zach doesn't seem to reply to YouTube questions. However, you may be able to reach him through his website if you have questions about their experience with wind power.  http://anamericanhomestead.com/

Offline Cedar

  • ...just aDD water...
  • TSP Supreme Galactic Ant
  • ************
  • Posts: 28429
  • Karma: 1396
  • Dont wait for the storm to pass, dance in the rain
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2015, 09:03:00 AM »
Thank you Bonnie. I have been watching my new place daily and it seems to have 9-15 hour winds on it daily. I will look at your link

Cedar

Offline r_w

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1262
  • Karma: 35
  • On my way
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2015, 11:47:29 AM »
I just happened to run across an Amish windmill dealer the other day.  Old school well pump windmills.  The price was not bad.  Good enough it has me rethinking water.  TCO is less than solar for me I think, YMMV depending on depth of well and height of tower needed. 

Offline elevaterob

  • Prepper
  • **
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: 2
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: Dabbling in wind power maybe..
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2015, 08:23:39 PM »
http://www.windbluepower.com/mobile/default.aspx
These guys have complete kits and individual pieces. They build a custom ceramic magnet core inside a very common Delco alternator. You can use it to get power out of wind, water, or your bicycle if you feel like Lance Armstrong (don't forget a supply of illegal enhancers). Powder coated and well built. They also clearly explain good info on industry bs and what you can actually expect to get out of them.