Author Topic: Honor guards Civilization  (Read 13621 times)

Offline swanson

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Honor guards Civilization
« on: April 26, 2009, 03:56:34 PM »
Every once in a while I find a real gem on the internet that's worth sharing and making sure a larger audience profits from.

What follows is just such an item.

It's a quote from James Yeager on his forum over at Tactical Response that bears pondering and repeating.

I think Mr. Yeager has captured not only the key stone essence of a warrior, but has also outlined why civilizations rise and fall.

It has to do with the central theme of honor.

We could all learn from this and invite the concepts of honor back into our daily lives, and invigorate our communities with the necessary spirit that personal honor casts light upon.

We must.

swanson


Here's the quote. Please take the time to reflect and enjoy...


James Yeager
Quote:

"The percentage of truly Honorable Men within any civilization has always been small, compared with the general populace, which is by comparison, shallow, self-centered, fearful, and morally confused/ambivalent. Paradoxically, it is always Men of Honor, audaciously assuming the leadership role, who are tasked with, and responsible for, the defense of Civilization.

Washington never commanded more that 25,000 troops at any one time. Most of time, his command consisted of a good deal fewer. The population of the Colonies was three million, only thirty percent of whom were Patriot sympathizers. If only twenty-five percent of that pool of one million, claiming to believe in the Cause, were able-bodied males, capable of military service, Washington could still only find a single-digit-percentage of men who were willing to wager their lives on the Cause to which they professed to be devoted.

What did (and still does) exist in the general populace was the concept of Personal Honor, to which all claim to aspire, but most fall short.

Violations of Honor were, and still are, regarded as shameful. Indeed, 'Shame' stands guard over all civilizations! For example, abandonment of obligation/duty, whether to family or creditors, is correctly regarded as shameful. Likewise, lying, cheating, deceitfulness, cowardice, and personal sleaziness are shameful, and those who engage in such conduct, be they rich or poor, and regardless of their laughable rationalizations, are rightfully referred to as 'low-life,' and 'trash.'

Succeeding generations of Men of Honor are thus prepared by this ever-small group of mature Masters. Likewise, we need to have this discussion among ourselves and in the presence of sons, daughters, and students. Words have meaning. We must reclaim the Language of Honor and reject the language of equivalency and rationalization. We need to make clear that heroes are just men, who, in full awareness of the inherent danger, boldly step forward and place their very lives at risk for the benefit of a worthy Cause. 'Heroes' are not pathetic victims of violent crime who took no action nor preparation to protect themselves, no matter how well they are dealing with their current afflictions. Heroes are gallant nineteen-year-olds with Purple-Hearts, who earned them as a result of fearless combat action!

For example, we reject terms like 'violence-of-action,' no matter how clever-sounding, to describe our righteous response to bona-fide violence, offered by VCAs. Men of Honor are not 'vile!' Men of Honor may be compelled to use force during encounters with VCAs, but they do so while ever abiding by established rules of conduct required of Honorable Men. With all due respect, we also disdain expressions like, 'always cheat.' It may sound clever, and even appeal to a naughty-boy image, but it is not the Language of Honor. We can convey the value of pressing an advantage without intimating personal sleaziness.

When my sons deployed to Iraq, I attended their departure. I watched, as they and other marvelous young men, about to deploy, spent last moments with their families. I could not stop watching those young fathers, Men of Honor, as they held their children and looked into their eyes. Thus, I gained an understanding of a line of fathers that stretches to antiquity, as they too watched their sons go off to war.


My sons and students, and yours, in the years to come, will assume the responsibility of conveying the Honor Concept to the next generation. Those of us with graying hair and declining visual-acuity must continue to help them see clearly that language is as important as the actions tied to the Concept.

Students, sons, and daughters, who have absorbed the Honor Concept, need to be encouraged to assume the leadership role, and competently, fearlessly defend it against those failed, shameful souls who reject and contort."

Comment: We can bet our lives on it. Indeed, we have!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 04:25:34 PM by swanson »

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 04:40:45 PM »
Another great find Swanson, and another great point by Mr. Yeager.  The man knows what he does, and why he does it.  That is rare and refreshing in this day and age.

Offline infobomber

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 09:17:48 AM »
Civilizations fall because of global catastrophe or climate change etc.  Our current civilization is the one that began roughly 10k years ago in the middle east. 

Our current civilization has been characterized by the rise of eastern empire and the rise of the west which create a sort of 2 cylinder piston action which keeps the civilization as a whole moving forward. 

The cause of the collapse of an empire is overgrowth and the inability to support it;s most remote areas.  When one empire recedes the most powerful in those areas rush in and fill the void. This is why we have Pakistan, North Korea, North Vietnam, and maybe other places I am forgetting.  SE Asia marking the limit to the expansion of the western empire, and Pakistan an important reminder of it's retreat.  Now I'm going to say something that might tick a lot of people off, but Ive gotten used to being the local shit head.  The western world is in decline, and the eastern world is rising.  It is only a matter of time before the western empire will be forced to retreat and leave the east.  This is not necessarily a bad thing, again it is the reason civilization has developed the way it has.  Of course there seems to be some movement to stop all of this by creating a super national government and banking system, but I see how this could actually stagnate civilization until such a system would need to be removed. 

At which time hopefully the the truly honorable men of the civilization would stand up in defense of this global tyranny. A common concept is the perception of a common threat to unify otherwise disagreeable peoples.  I would think it ironic that the end result of global tyranny's would be an organic unification and true global community fighting against a common enemy. 

I am not disagreeing with with Mr. Yeager on anything more then a slight semantical issue, which I have hopefully turned into the shortest history of modern man ever written.  I can see and feel the obvious truth in the statement made.  I can only hope to set an honourable example for my children and those around me. I can only do my best to prepare for an increasingly unstable future. I wouldn't wish war upon my children. I hope they would not think twice to stand next to your children and the children of Mr. Yeager, Mr. Spirko. I hope they would stand together with the children of Iraq, and China, and Burma, and Tibet, and together throw off the yoke of tyranny.

Sic Semper Tyrannus!




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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 11:17:13 AM »
"The percentage of truly Honorable Men within any civilization has always been small, compared with the general populace, which is by comparison, shallow, self-centered, fearful, and morally confused/ambivalent. Paradoxically, it is always Men of Honor, audaciously assuming the leadership role, who are tasked with, and responsible for, the defense of Civilization.

What a load of utter crap.

The Men of Honor are in the vast majority in America.  We are the people go to work everyday, pay our bills, don't get drunk or high all the time, feed our kids, and protect our families from violence.  We are the MAJORITY.

I get so sick of this military worship nonsense attempting to glorify the senseless deaths of ignorant kids.  It's vile.  Real Men of Honor don't get PAID to protect our families.  We do it because it is a natural obligation upon our honor.  Real Men of Honor don't jump on the government teat just because the best job we could find in our small town is hard work for low pay.  Real Men of Honor don't fancy themselves comic book death-dealing heros smiting the infidels of the east with steel justice.  They know that killing any man of any creed is a horrible tragedy and last resort.


Offline swanson

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 12:04:24 PM »
Tommy Jefferson,

Even though I wildly disagree with your opinion and viewpoint on the subject matter, I would still fight for your rights to express it, always...







You see, I am one of those guys that got PAID to protect all of our families and found it to be my natural obligation to join the fight against our enemies in the East because I recognize the horrible tragedy that comes home to us when we don't continually sacrifice and confront our enemies and defend our freedoms.

I accept your scorn and hope the timid MAJORITY is ready to do their part every day as well.

I'd rather die fighting then remain on the sidelines when duty calls.

I too hope there are less comic book heroes and more real men of honor as well. Our Country needs them NOW more then ever.

I'd do it all over again today or any day.

swanson

Offline theaccidentalsurvivor

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 12:32:10 PM »
Gotta say i agree with TJ on one point:

The Men of Honor are in the vast majority in America.  We are the people go to work everyday, pay our bills, don't get drunk or high all the time, feed our kids, and protect our families from violence.  We are the MAJORITY.

Other than that, characterizing our military as death dealing ignorants is probably one of the most outlandish characterizations i have ever heard. As for jumping on the goverment teet..... I can think of a few ways the government will pay you without getting shot at..... One even involves sitting on your ass doing nothing!

That much scorn and contempt for a group that virtually guarantees the freedoms you enjoy can not be healthy.




Offline cajunkraut

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 01:47:25 PM »
And now for something completely different:

From Fred Reed at http://www.fredoneverything.net/Honor1.shtml

Quote
The Price of Honor

Marbles Make More Sense

January 3, 2009

I read that America must find an “exit strategy” from Iraq that will bring “peace with honor.” My God. Honor? I’d rather have infected hemorrhoids. These at least are not a mental aberration. Well, depending on where your head is.

Honor means nothing more than prickly infantile vanity dressed up, usually, in desperate class-consciousness. Of all the symptoms of a weak ego, honor is the most embarrassing, and the most harmful. In a right-minded society it would be made a capital offense. (In women honor usually means chastity, also a bad idea but not nearly as pernicious.)

I do not mean to rail against the virtues, manly or otherwise. A few of them seem to have merit. Courage is doubtless admirable, at least when not engaged in by criminals or ambitious soldiers. Loyalty to friends in the face of adversity is to be commended. Common decency has its allure and occasional practitioners. Honesty? I think it worth trying, though with care until we ascertain its effects. But honor? It is a sure indication of a bad character.

Consider its usual display throughout history. A duke or baron, or some such befeathered artifact of excessive inbreeding, encounters another, a count perhaps, or more likely a no-count, who is in a bad mood. This latter says, “Yomama, Monsieur. Your granny wears combat boots.”

Whereupon the duke, instead of saying, “Oh buzz off, Lancaster, before I York a knot on your head”—this would be sensible and therefore inadmissible in affairs of honor—takes off his glove and throws it on the ground. This benefits dry cleaners, though a man with one glove looks eccentric. Anyway, this constitutes a Challenge, more to common sense than anything else.

And so the Duke and the Count meet on the Field of Honor, in the manner of small boys settling a dispute on the playground after school, but with more gauds and glitter. A duke disposes of greater resources than does a third-grader, though this may be the only distinction. After fulsome precedent ceremony, they fight with swords, suggesting grave inner dimness, until one pokes the other, who thereafter waits for peritonitis to set in. The survivor stalks off with the ostentatious pride of a swamp bird in mating season, his honor satisfied.

Smarter people would settle quarrels by playing marbles, I think.

Now, credit where credit is due. Most often, the code duello approach to honor served to rid society of men it would be better off without. A country can prosper without dukes, while a strike by the plumbers would be disastrous.

But sometimes the effects of aggrieved vanity were actually deleterious. In 1832, Evariste Galois, a preternaturally talented French mathematician, died in a duel at age twenty, fortunately having invented the theory of groups beforehand. His was an extraordinarily unuseful foray into the practice of honor. What might he have done had he insisted on marbles? Honor has a high price.

Military men are particularly susceptible to notions of honor, and should be indoctrinated against it in their formative years. They employ it largely as a veil covering their actual business, which has generally consisted in killing, raping, burning, and pillaging, in putting cities to the sword, massacring the unwilling conscripted peasants of the opposing army, and generating widows, orphans, and prisoners for the slave trade.

None of this would seem particularly honorable if examined carefully, so it carefully isn’t. The soldierly focus is on teary-eyed memories of fallen comrades, on the bravery of the cavalry at Balaclava or of the leather-jacketed bomber crews who burned a hundred thousand civilians to death per night, and such like.

The infantilism undergirding honor can be seen in the game of chicken. This curious parallel to aristocratic bloodletting was played decades ago by brooding teenagers with ducktail haircuts and a pack of Camels rolled into the shoulders of their tee-shirts. One adolescent duelist-in-waiting would insult another in some mortal manner. “Yer a yellow-belly Yankee,” perhaps, or “You’re a four-eyed sissy.” The other, experiencing a hormone surge frequently confused with a call of honor, accepts the challenge to play chicken. They’re going to settle it man to man, though emotionally they belong in diapers.

So they meet in their cars at night on a deserted stretch of road, each with friends as witnesses and supporters (exactly like nominally adult duelists with their pistols and seconds: there is no difference). The witnesses get out and the antagonists, facing each other from behind the wheels of their cars at a distance of perhaps a mile, race furiously at each other like rutting mountain sheep. The idea is that whoever swerves to avoid a collision is a coward, and thus besmirched. Of course they then both survive, and can continue trying to tap the cheerleaders.

Here is the very essence of honor, an engorged, all-consuming vanity, a willingness to die for one’s ego. Marbles, I insist. Much better.

This irrational behavior finds a place in international affairs. In fact, it comes close to being international affairs. One sees it often in the unwillingness of countries (read: psychological short men in charge of countries) to back down when nothing important is at stake, or to cut their losses when hobbyist wars go awry.

As noted, today our thunder-thump patriots say that we must find an honorable exit strategy from Iraq. This means that if we can’t steal the oil, we can at least pretend we won the war gloriously. Again, honor is ego: We aren’t going to swerve. Better that we bankrupt the country, fill the hospital wards with paraplegic and blind teenagers, kill who-cares-how-many Iraqis, than blink. Mine is longer than yours. It is, it is, it is.

Honor is a protective device for people whose self-esteem needs protection. Picture some archduck in England—actually “archduck” was a typo, but I think it better conveys the sense. Anyway, this gorgeous trinket of chivalry, which is itself a loathsome hotbed of honor, probably has twelve toes from more intermarriage than a holler in West Virginia, and a thistle-down intelligence, and the self-reliance of a queen ant. He is a monument to non-hybrid unvigor.

How does he protect his etiolated parsnip-like self-esteem from some village kid named, oh, say, Newton, who would regard him as the intellectual equivalent of a turnip? Easy. He invokes his honor. Defensive vanity. “A mere commoner. Pish.” Elevated nose, depressed intelligence.

None of this is necessary. Perhaps the greatest military thinkers in history are Fredwitz and James P. Coyne, in that order. Dr. Coyne’s proposed exit strategy is simple: “OK, on the plane. Now.” Should this seem unfathomable by its complexity, it could be reduced to four words. But no. What general, what president who has said “Mission accomplished,” is going to admit that it didn’t work so well? We must leave with honor. Not necessarily with all our body parts, or all the soldiers we came with, but with honor.

Offline firetoad

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 01:55:17 PM »
Quote
That much scorn and contempt for a group that virtually guarantees the freedoms you enjoy can not be healthy.

Well said!

Offline swanson

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 02:49:43 PM »
Quote
Military men are particularly susceptible to notions of honor, and should be indoctrinated against it in their formative years. They employ it largely as a veil covering their actual business, which has generally consisted in killing, raping, burning, and pillaging, in putting cities to the sword, massacring the unwilling conscripted peasants of the opposing army, and generating widows, orphans, and prisoners for the slave trade.


As if pithy words trailed together to make smart ass comments make the writer seem intelligent or his position on 'honor' of value.

I should say that this man has found nothing in his life of value to defend or fight for past his own amusements.

Classifying all those who serve in this manner is beyond ignorant.

The business of war is ugly, but at times necessary.

Quote
Here is the very essence of honor, an engorged, all-consuming vanity, a willingness to die for one’s ego. Marbles, I insist. Much better.

I wonder if 'marbles' make more sense to these concentration camp prisoners? I doubt that 'ego' was at the center of their liberator's minds as the above quote insists.



When a Warrior girds his armor, takes up the sword and goes to battle, it is often for reasons greater than the self.

For all those that would care to rail against the concept of honor and those that find meaning in it, please take a moment to look past your opinion and reexamine your position.

Honor has it's place.

swanson
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 03:10:44 PM by swanson »

Tommy Jefferson

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 04:07:53 PM »
You see, I am one of those guys that got PAID to protect all of our families

No you are NOT.  You are a guy who got paid to enrich corporations that rip off Americans.  You weren't defending me from anything.  I highly resent your constant attempts to characterize the stupid, senseless foreign wars America is currently engaged in as "protecting freedom, liberty, and families".  It's not.  It's a straight-up screw job.

America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society specifically because people like you suck up and promote jingoistic nonsense and this childish military comic book view of the world fed to you buy the mainstream media.  I am sick of it.  My childen and granchildren will be suffering because of your lies for the next 100 years.


Offline firetoad

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 04:47:09 PM »
I am advising you to read the TOS & Forum Policies very, very carefully. 

Personal attacks against ANY member will not be tolerated.  You are entitled to your opinion and to vehemently disagree, but to direct that dissent/disagreement at ANY one member of this board is not acceptable. 

Offline infobomber

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 06:21:26 PM »
Wow and I was worried I was going to be the shit head in this thread. Maybe I should start a new thread talking trash about scientology, thats ok right since theyre not technically a religion, and more of a science fiction fan club. So it would be like poking fun at trekkies or world of warcraft nerds right?


Offline swanson

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 06:37:47 PM »
Quote
Wow and I was worried I was going to be the shit head in this thread. Maybe I should start a new thread talking trash about scientology, thats ok right since theyre not technically a religion, and more of a science fiction fan club. So it would be like poking fun at trekkies or world of warcraft nerds right?

I guess we all find honor in our own ways.

There's plenty of room for interpretation and candid responses, but we all should remain in earnest effort to avoid the personal attacks.

I guess it's kind of always good to know that no matter what you dedicate yourself to professionally and personally, there's always a dissenting opinion.

...and actually, I enjoyed your world civilization synopsis a great deal.

Sorry i didn't respond to it sooner than this.

+1!

swanson
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 07:39:01 AM by swanson »

Offline flagtag

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 06:49:13 PM »
"Honor" is exhibited by those (men & women) who care about something/someone other than their own self.  It is being true to something beyond "the comfort zone" and it is working to try to make a better world for all peoples, not just themselves and their families.
Honor is standing for something positive. (All the while knowing that there will be some who don't agree with their position, but doing it anyway)
"If you don't stand for something, you will  fall for anything".
It takes a strength of character that isn't seen much today - except, perhaps, in the form of the American soldier. (Yes, there are others as well.) They are willing to risk all for us, and our country. They are willing to go beyond themselves for us.

True, many people signed up for military service ONLY for the education paid for by the military, then (SURPRISE), they realized they didn't get a "free ride".  They actually had to keep their end of the bargain!  But, so many others enlisted because they love their country and our people, and despite the lies of our government, were willing to continue and "HONOR" their OATH of OFFICE and complete their part of the agreement - proudly.

I personally want to thank you Swanson and all your brothers and sisters for what you have done (and are doing) for all of us. From the bottom of my heart!!!

Offline Sister Wolf

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 06:55:28 PM »
Swanson,

Thank you SO MUCH for your service to our country.  Regardless of whether our political opinions match or whether they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, I appreciate what you've done and what you still seem to be willing to do in order to protect me and my family from any foreign threat.

I am so sorry that there are still people in this country who find it necessary to throw "baby-killer"-esque insults at soldiers.  Color me infuriated on your behalf.

Quote from: Tommy Jefferson
America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society specifically because people like you suck up and promote jingoistic nonsense and this childish military comic book view of the world fed to you buy the mainstream media.  I am sick of it.  My childen and granchildren will be suffering because of your lies for the next 100 years.

WRONG.  America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society, specifically because people continue to vote for more spending, and more programs, and more socialism.  It has got not a God damned thing to do with soldiers who are willing to volunteer to put themselves in harm's way to defend their ideals.  They aren't the ones starting the wars.  Soldiers would be just as happy to build roads through badlands, and perform rescue operations all day long, and never shoot another human being.  Soldiers aren't sending themselves to God forsaken countries to fight the wars of others.  I guarantee it.  To accuse somebody of jingoism because they love their country, and are willing to do what they think is necessary (ie - joining the military) to protect it is bullshit, and you know it.  It'd be like accusing somebody of being a raging alcoholic for having a beer at dinner.  Exaggeration in the direction of insulting the honor of our soldiers in America will get you nowhere good.

Offline Heavy G

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 08:34:04 PM »

America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society specifically because people like you suck up and promote jingoistic nonsense and this childish military comic book view of the world fed to you buy the mainstream media.  I am sick of it.  My childen and granchildren will be suffering because of your lies for the next 100 years.


Dude: keep it civil.  This isn't a shit-throw, it's a forum.

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 08:41:20 PM »
No you are NOT.  You are a guy who got paid to enrich corporations that rip off Americans.  You weren't defending me from anything.  I highly resent your constant attempts to characterize the stupid, senseless foreign wars America is currently engaged in as "protecting freedom, liberty, and families".  It's not.  It's a straight-up screw job.

America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society specifically because people like you suck up and promote jingoistic nonsense and this childish military comic book view of the world fed to you buy the mainstream media.  I am sick of it.  My childen and granchildren will be suffering because of your lies for the next 100 years.

My friend, I would like to ask you one question.  Do you remember where you where and what you were doing when a terrorist group known as the Taliban purported an unprovoked attack in the name of Allah and Jihad by hijacking planes and crashing them into the World Trade Center? I'd bet you do.  Did you know anyone personally affected by it?

Now how are WE responsible for them killing THOUSANDS of innocent American civilians, because the existence of a free nation is a thorn in the side of their religious ideals?  The very existence of free men and women infuriate them to the point of Murder.  And good American men and women have fought and died in Afghanistan, not to rape and pillage, but to eliminate the threat whom initiated their holy war upon us.  And we took the fight one of their primary strongholds instead of waiting to be attacked again.  That is common sense.  And the task performed by our soldiers was not murder of an innocent people, but prevention of attacks on their families back home.  Is there something you would risk your life to defend?  If yes, then how are you any different from our soldiers?  And if not, then I pity you.

And Swanson, while some may not appreciate it, many like Sister Wolf and myself, and many others, are thankful that we have men like yourself willing to risk your lives to protect people you may never meet.  If I ever meet you, I'd like to buy you a drink.

Offline The Wilderness

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2009, 09:50:46 PM »
And Swanson, while some may not appreciate it, many like Sister Wolf and myself, and many others, are thankful that we have men like yourself willing to risk your lives to protect people you may never meet.  If I ever meet you, I'd like to buy you a drink.

I agree with PistolWhipped. You deserve a drink, hell you deserve the whole bottle.

The Wilderness

Offline PistolWhipped

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2009, 10:05:05 PM »
Another article to in a similar vein to the original post.

Quote
ON SHEEP, WOLVES, AND SHEEPDOGS

By LTC(RET) Dave Grossman, RANGER, Ph.D.,author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always, even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me: "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.

Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

"Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

"Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed.

Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. –– from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes.

If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... "Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

To that effect, honorable men do not relish in battle, but they accept that it can happen, and, if anything, they thirst to be able to help their fellow man.  That is what Mr. Yeager and swanson are trying to explain.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:30:01 PM by PistolWhipped »

Offline Patriot:Ex Machina

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2009, 06:18:09 AM »
Tommy Jefferson,
I would suggest to tread very carefully on this subject.
Attacking and ridiculing  soldiers who serve this country is not cool.

Here's the thing, I haven't always agreed with the policies of this nation when it comes to foreign wars, but have nothing but respect and appreciation for the men and women who put on the uniform.
I come from a military family; my pop served during Vietnam, and the hell he went through is indescribable.
Was the war highly questionable? Oh yes.
But your comments are on par with those by the bastards that spit on my dad and called him "baby killer" when he came home.
You are entitled to your opinion, but sometimes it's better when kept to yourself.

Swanson, got nothin' but love for ya, bro.
Thanks for what you do.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 08:13:36 AM by Patriot2980 »

Offline khristopher23

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2009, 06:47:08 AM »
No you are NOT.  You are a guy who got paid to enrich corporations that rip off Americans.  You weren't defending me from anything.  I highly resent your constant attempts to characterize the stupid, senseless foreign wars America is currently engaged in as "protecting freedom, liberty, and families".  It's not.  It's a straight-up screw job.

America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society specifically because people like you suck up and promote jingoistic nonsense and this childish military comic book view of the world fed to you buy the mainstream media.  I am sick of it.  My childen and granchildren will be suffering because of your lies for the next 100 years.



^^^^^God how I hope and pray people like you are, and always will be in the minority.

Swanson, I really can't think of anything other to say to you than "THANK YOU". I know it doesn't even come close man, but I could sit here and ramble on all day, and it still wouldn't be enough.

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2009, 09:00:24 AM »
WRONG.  America is sinking in crippling debt and failing as a society, specifically because people continue to vote for more spending, and more programs, and more socialism.  It has got not a God damned thing to do with soldiers who are willing to volunteer to put themselves in harm's way to defend their ideals.

Wrong.  War is the greatest of socialist endeavors.  If you support foreign military adventures, you support socialism and crippling debt for my grandchildren. 

Volunteers, by definition, don't get paid.  The U.S. military has no volunteers in it any more than the people who work at General Motors volunteer there.

Dictionary: jin·go·ism   (j?ng'g?-?z'?m) Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
This fairly represents the articles Swanson posts here promoting more debt, spending, and war.

Please get your facts straight.


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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2009, 09:05:13 AM »
Do you remember where you where and what you were doing when a terrorist group known as the Taliban purported an unprovoked attack in the name of Allah and Jihad by hijacking planes and crashing them into the World Trade Center?

The Taliban did not attack the World Trade Center.

Your failure to learn basic facts about terrorism negates your opinions on it.

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2009, 09:18:00 AM »
But your comments are on par with those by the bastards that spit on my dad and called him "baby killer" when he came home.

No, they are not.  This is not 1969.  There is no draft.  Every person in the military industrial business is there by choice.

When Swanson chose to take a job working for a military contracting corporation, he willfully accepted the risks of such employment.  I live near Houston where KBR is headquartered.  I personally know scores of war contractors, many of whom have been injured.  When they got blown up, they didn't cry about it because they knew that the risk they traded for earning $120,000 per year for a job that would pay $30,000 in Texas.

When you are a professional who gets paid a high salary to go do a job, you are just that, a professional.  You are not a hero any more than the guy I pay to install my new HVAC unit.


Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2009, 09:40:06 AM »
This thread is getting very close to being locked!  Further any man who risks his life to defend his nation is a hero and I will have words with anyone who says otherwise.  A solider goes where he is asked and does what he is ordered, he risks his life for what he believes is service to his fellow man.

You can question the reality behind the sceens but don't question the individuals dedication and devotion just because you don't have it, I mean it, cut the shit the ban hammer is getting really close on a few heads and I won't apologize for saying that in public and those that don't like it don't waste my time bitching to me about it. 

There are times when I take control here, this is one.  TJ if you want to bitch about free speech read this first, http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/disclaimers-policies

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2009, 12:29:22 PM »
Wrong.  War is the greatest of socialist endeavors.  If you support foreign military adventures, you support socialism and crippling debt for my grandchildren. 

I support my troops.  I respect them, and don't care if that means supporting them while they are in Iraq, or supporting them while they are in Brazil, or buying them dinner at the local restaurant.  I. Support. My. Troops.

If you are one of those who spits on their military personnel because they are defending what they believe is right, then I believe I would be safe in assuming that you're also spitting on public school teachers, firemen, police officers, those dudes who work on the freeways, anybody who went through college on a student loan, anybody who has ever taken part in a welfare program, anybody who has ever shopped on base, anybody who has ever cried in front of a war memorial, anybody who has ever purchased roses for the fallen canine soldier's memorial, anybody who loves their soldier, and anybody who believes shouldering MY safety is worth THEIR while.

What the hell is the matter with you?  If you have an issue with Socialism, VOTE AGAINST IT.  But do not come in here talking big about how soldiers are socialists, and the problem with the world is THEM.

Quote
Dictionary: jin·go·ism   (j?ng'g?-?z'?m) Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
This fairly represents the articles Swanson posts here promoting more debt, spending, and war.

I'm not the one who needs to get their facts straight.  Maybe you're not really familiar with the English language, but saying that Swanson is jingoistic is to say the HE has a chauvinistic patriotism about him.  Which he doesn't.  That HE has a belligerent foreign policy.  No. WRONG.  Swanson has a job.  And he does it.  And he respects other men and women who perform that job with him.  And so do I.

The only other thing I am going to say on this thread is that the only reason you are still speaking here at all, is because I am not an Administrator.

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2009, 12:52:31 PM »
any man who risks his life to defend his nation is a hero and I will have words with anyone who says otherwise.

Your forum.  Your rules. 

I understand that it is forbidden to suggest that any man who risks his life to defend his nation is not a hero.

Offline theaccidentalsurvivor

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2009, 01:02:58 PM »
Your forum.  Your rules. 

I understand that it is forbidden to suggest that any man who risks his life to defend his nation is not a hero.

Thats not what they are saying at all..... they are just saying dont attack the guy personally

BTW I thought Swanson didnt do anything to "defend" his country...... At least thats what you said earlier...... You actually said he was a guy who got paid to enrich corporations that rip off Americans...... So what was he doing? Defending his country, but not being a hero or was he just some shill for a corporation helping to rip of Americans?

I know its kinda hard to keep track of every rant, but consistency is appreciated  :P

Offline ModernSurvival

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2009, 01:11:46 PM »
Honestly there is a REASON we have a Tin Foil Hat forum.  If people could confine the discussion of New World Order Overlords, 911 Theories, etc to it much of this would never happen.  Statements like,

"The Taliban did not attack the World Trade Center.
Your failure to learn basic facts about terrorism negates your opinions on it."

Show us clearly the underlying emotions of this debate.  I provided a board for that type of thing, use it and most of this will never be a problem.

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Re: Honor guards Civilization
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 01:47:43 PM »
Post Altered by ModernSurvival

What part of discuss this in the TFHB is hard to understand?  Even if you happen to be on the non foil hat side of the issue don't go baiting it, thank you.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 01:53:58 PM by ModernSurvival »