Author Topic: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?  (Read 15145 times)

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2018, 09:24:21 AM »
What are the chances the leadership at the NRA walk away from this with clean hands?  Was there anyone really stupid enough to believe in the oxymoronic concept of Russian Gun Rights?

Given that they said there was no malfeasance and no charges are being filed, 99.9%.

Gun rights have been expanding in Russia.  A few years back they ended the USSR ban.  Now anyone over 18 can get a shotgun and after 5 years of owning that a rifle. They are investigating adding handguns.  Even Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation travelled to Moscow to advocate for further liberalization via the International Association for the Protection of Civilian Arms Rights of which Butina’s group was a member.  Right now over 10% of Russians own guns which is about the same as New York state and a higher rate than several others.

Surely you dont believe Gottlieb, a key figure behind the string of supreme court 2A victories, is a Russian agent?

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2018, 04:11:34 PM »
Butina's "organization" had 10,000 members, tops, and is supposedly struggling for the right to own something more capable than a double barrel shotgun, while the NRA has millions of members.  Now, if the NRA was looking to help expand Russian rights, you'd expect to see a flow of money and support towards Russia.  Not quite how it happened, is it?  Why?

Offline Stwood

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2018, 05:17:05 PM »
I've never been a member, and it's too late in life for me to consider one.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2018, 05:58:59 PM »
Now, if the NRA was looking to help expand Russian rights, you'd expect to see a flow of money and support towards Russia.  Not quite how it happened, is it?  Why?

Not sure what you are implying here or from where your information is coming..  Gottlieb and the others did travel to Russia to push for liberalization. It was primarily about handguns.  Russians already can own shotguns and rifles as stated above.   From 2013:

http://www.thegunmag.com/civilian-arms-rights-advocates-meet-russia/

Civilian Arms Rights Advocates Meet In Russia

Americans are not alone in having a fundamental desire for a right to keep and bear firearms for self-defense.

While the right to arms continues to be an important political, legal and media struggle in the United States, representatives of dozens of countries from around the world gathered in Moscow to press their case for greater access to personal arms.

Representatives of gun rights associations from 56 Russian provinces were in attendance and speaking as well as Russian political leaders and firearms manufacturers.

They were joined by representatives from countries in eastern and Western Europe and Asia, including India, Israel, Italy and the USA.

The event was the 2nd Annual Meeting of international gun rights organizations hosted by the Moscow-based Right to Bear Arms organization, and the UN Arms Trade Treaty was as much a key topic as the arms rights debate in all of the nations involved in the conference.

In all, over 200 people participated in six-languages, with participants listening through headphones with UN-style multiple immediate translations.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) and chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, was the leadoff speaker. Gottlieb is also the founder and a director of the International Association for the Protection of Civilian Arms Rights (IAPCAR), of which the Russian Right to Bear Arms association is a long-time member.

Gottlieb told TGM that he believed there was considerable support in the Russian parliament for more relaxed firearms rights legislation, but it was unclear whether there was yet enough for a majority.

Julianne Versnel, a representative to the United Nations, who is also the Second Amendment Foundation’s Director of Operations, also spoke early at the Moscow meeting. During the UN’s deliberations of the Arms Trade Treaty in March she submitted testimony objecting to the exclusion of civilian arms rights from the ATT.

“Nothing that is in an Arms Trade Treaty should affect a woman’s right to defend herself,” Versnel told the delegates, as she linked the arms rights debate to earlier adoption of UN treaties on human rights that focused on women.

Former National Rifle Association President David Keene also spoke later in the program, representing the Association. The NRA and SAF are both members of the World Forum on Shooting Sports.

Immediately after the Moscow meeting, IAPCAR announced that civilian arms rights groups in the Ukraine, Moldova, and Belarus had joined the international coalition of 28 associations in 20 countries dedicated to the preservation and defense of civilian firearms rights.

They include the Ukrainian Gun Owners Association, Moldova’s Practical Shooting Association, and the Association of Practical Shooting in Belarus.

“The global coalition of like-minded civilian arms rights groups is unified with greater strength in Europe now more than ever before,” IAPCAR’s Executive Director Philip Watson said. “I think most people agree with the right of self-defense, that’s why our coalition just continues to grow.” The three groups will expand the European membership of IAPCAR to ten groups from ten different EU and non-EU countries.

The IAPCAR civilian arms rights coalition is focused on opposition to the ATT, which does not acknowledge or protect civilian arms rights or recognize the right to self-defense in its enforceable language.

Civilian arms rights vary considerably from country to country.

Readers are familiar with the fact that Americans face a hodgepodge of state gun laws as well as federal laws and regulations.

In other nations, the right to arms may be more stringently controlled.

In Russia, for example, civilians may own hunting rifles and shotguns, plus gas-powered pistols, but cartridge guns, whether for home protection or concealed carry, are almost totally prohibited, and licensing and registration many vary considerably from one province to another.

Presently, many Russian lawmakers are pressing for a relaxation of laws regulating pistols for possession outside the home.

The cultural program at the meeting featured an exhibition of photographic work by Olga Volk, a Russian-American freelance photographer that focused on the theme of people carrying civilian weapons, prepared to defend their families and homes.


I could reach out to Olga Volk for more information on the meeting. We met through Appleseeding.about a decade ago.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 06:04:30 PM by iam4liberty »

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2019, 11:25:47 AM »
The NRA Convention sounds like it’s been interesting. Oliver North’s attempt to oust Wayne LaPierre by threatening to release dirt has backfired.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2019, 11:48:06 AM »
The NRA Convention sounds like it’s been interesting. Oliver North’s attempt to oust Wayne LaPierre by threatening to release dirt has backfired.

Been getting from the ground reports for last two days.  Everyone there is quite upbeat. Membership has grown to over 5.5 million and is rising quickly.  And the Indiana passed legislation to protect places of worship is being heralded as a model for country.

What backfired was North's hidden deal with Ackerman McQueen.  He is implicated in that lawsuit.That said, the board has been too lenient on governance of NRA officers and staff.  That will change and NRA will come out even stronger going forward.

Offline Stwood

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2019, 12:51:01 PM »
Shady deals everywhere

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2019, 02:49:15 PM »
Shady deals everywhere

And big egos.  That is why it is so important to have good board of directors in these organizations.

Instructor Stephen Gutowski just tweeted out that he got a chance to talk to NRA board member Allen West.  Here is the raw video he is sharing:

https://youtu.be/QBQQTma5--w

It will be sorted in the meetings on Monday. Expect a new auditing system with monthly reviews by BOD to be in place shortly.  Also, NRA is going to shift significant money to training which is important given the number of new gun owners.  Those are the two big things members want.

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2019, 05:06:06 PM »
What are they saying about the legal battle with NY AG?

Offline antsyaunt

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2019, 05:44:09 PM »
What are they saying about the legal battle with NY AG?
This.  As a NY resident, I feel abandoned. 

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2019, 10:44:58 PM »
Sounds like Ollie is corrupt AF, in bed with the equally corrupt Ackerman McQueen which runs NRA’s media and they’re pulling the classic extortion scheme.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2019, 11:07:42 PM »
What are they saying about the legal battle with NY AG?

Not much concern.  Letitia James completely undermined her fake investigation by calling NRA a terrorist organization.  The legal team seemingly has things well in hand.  She is a spitting image of Michael Avenatti. 

This.  As a NY resident, I feel abandoned. 

Abandoned in what way?  The NRA is right now spending huge resources fighting for New Yorkers' rights in the N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Association v. City of N.Y., case in front of the Supreme Court.  The continued losses on that case is why James launched her fake investigation.

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2019, 12:15:19 PM »
Related topic that I probably should have posted in this thread:
The New Yorker is dubious about the NRA's finances

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2019, 12:59:23 PM »
Does anyone know if the NRA observed a moment of silence for Maria Butina? 

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2019, 01:29:51 PM »
Does anyone know if the NRA observed a moment of silence for Maria Butina?

 :spit:

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2019, 02:01:53 PM »
Does anyone know if the NRA observed a moment of silence for Maria Butina?

No.  Everyone knew from the start that the whole "NRA is an agent of Putin" narrative was fake news.  So the Mueller exoneration and complete absence of NRA from his report was no surprise to the membership. 

Same with these new stories out of New York. The New York press knows nothing of the workings of the NRA (or firearms for that matter).  So everyone takes all that with a huge grain of salt. If anything these fake stories just backfire and help with membership growth and fundraising.  The more fake news claiming the NRA is a group of terrorists, the lower the news credibility goes, and the more willing people are to become involved. The industry loves it as it sells tons of firearms.  And the polling data looks good too with a majority of Americans having a favorable rating of the NRA, one of only a handful of institutions.

So all reports are membership is very upbeat and having a good time at convention.  Word is Chuck Norris is knocking it out of the park as the new Glock spokesperson.  There is a movement afoot to draft him as new NRA president, LOL.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:18:25 PM by iam4liberty »

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2019, 02:29:15 PM »
John Lott does a pretty good job explaining how the membership feels.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/john-lott-second-amendment-nra-oliver-north
John Lott: NRA turmoil is not a threat to Second Amendment but THIS could do real harm

The announcement Saturday that Oliver North is stepping down as president of the National Rifle Association – following news that the New York attorney general is investigating the group’s tax-exempt status – has sparked overwrought media speculation that the NRA is in danger of shutting down.

It’s not.

Try as they might, those on the left cannot wish the Second Amendment out of existence.
...
What happened to force North out?

It turns out that North and longtime NRA Executive Vice President and CEO Wayne LaPierre got into a power struggle. LaPierre came out on top.
...
The messy infighting is unfortunate, but, by itself, won’t get in the way of the NRA achieving its objectives.
...
The NRA has faced numerous challenges in recent years. Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg gives hundreds of millions of dollars each year to fund his gun control organizations, fund research that supports gun controls, and support political campaigns of candidates hostile to allowing individuals defending themselves.

This past year, Bloomberg spent $110 million just on Democratic campaigns for the U.S. House of Representatives. He devoted similar amounts to state-level races.

The state of New York, where the NRA is incorporated, has been particularly hostile to the nonprofit organization. State Attorney General Letitia James is investigating the NRA’s nonprofit status. Her office sent letters to the NRA and affiliated entities Friday to preserve relevant records for that investigation.

This action by James is reminiscent of how the Obama administration used the Internal Revenue Service to deny tax-exempt status to those it disagreed with politically and tilt the 2012 election toward Democrats.

New York state has gone so far as to make regulatory threats to force insurance companies and banks to stop doing business with the NRA, which has suffered tens of millions of dollars in losses as a result.

Even the liberal American Civil Liberties Union has joined the NRA in fighting what the group views as New York's outrageous actions, saying: “Our position in this case has nothing to do with our opinions on the NRA’s policies – it’s about the First Amendment rights of all organizations to engage in political advocacy without fear that the state will use its regulatory authority to penalize them for doing so.”
...
So in the long run, Oliver North stepping down as president of the NRA will be a footnote in history. But if Democratic politicians use this internal NRA battle as an excuse to further hobble their political enemies all Americans will come the losers.

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #47 on: April 29, 2019, 12:55:37 AM »
Rob Pincus apparently doesn’t think everything’s all sweetness and light at the NRA convention.

https://youtu.be/AJDNMiB36r8

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2019, 01:42:18 PM »
Rob Pincus apparently doesn’t think everything’s all sweetness and light at the NRA convention.

https://youtu.be/AJDNMiB36r8

Sure, there are some legitimate issues as I outlined above.  But the "end is near" prophets are silly.  Some perspective: there are 5.5 Million NRA  members.  About 80 thousand of them are attending the conference.  Of them, about 2 thousand attended the general members meeting.  Of that two thousand, only a handful spoke with a negative perspective.  The general members voted to deal with the legitimate concerns in the Board meeting. 

The board has been meeting all day today.  About 200 members showed up at start.  Then the board went into executive session and has been in such for seven hours.  They have to come back to membership with real solutions like increasing auditing, potentially moving the corporate charter from New York to another state, reareanging budget for greater emphasis on training, and a full accounting of expenditures by Ackerman McQueen.

These are real topics being addressed by the member reps for the betterment of the organization.  The whole "sky is falling" over the top Bloomberg reporting is just nonsense.


Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2019, 03:24:24 PM »
Knew this a few hours ago, but they had not officially released.  Board is unanimous on leadership.and Carolyn Meadows is the new NRA President.replacing Oliver North. Strong, experienced choice for governance..Anti-gun media is going to go nuts with a female president.  Expect the fake news hit pieces to start immediately.  I give it a day before they shift from mysogeny narrative to one of racism...they are totally predictable.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/4/29/nra-evp-wayne-lapierre-and-other-officers-elected-unanimously/
NRA EVP Wayne LaPierre and Other Officers Elected Unanimously
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 03:35:50 PM by iam4liberty »

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2019, 04:41:55 PM »


They have absolutely no qualms watching our rights go to sh!t state by state, but when there's a flimsy threat at the national level, we get panicked pleas to donate.
At this point I'd rather have no allies than the fear mongering, self-serving NRA.


I have no hope for change.  Praying the NRA implodes on itself. 

Online FreeLancer

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2019, 05:20:49 PM »
How can they change when the leadership that got us to this point are left in place for decades? 

I will say, I got one magazine and two mailers after sending my termination letter and not single piece of paper or robocall since.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2019, 05:39:18 PM »
I thought you two were happy about the magazine ban lawsuit.  Who do you think paid for that case?

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2019, 05:55:32 PM »
Where were they when the last batch of legislation came down here in CA? 

Oh, right, courting the goddamn Russians.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2019, 06:06:47 PM »
Where were they when the last batch of legislation came down here in CA? 

Oh, right, courting the goddamn Russians.

What are you talking about?  The NRA has been pumping millions into lawsuits in California over the last four decades.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-nra-files-another-lawsuit-challenging-1504887910-htmlstory.html
NRA files another lawsuit challenging California's assault rifle restrictions

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2019, 06:53:18 PM »
And our laws have never been worse.

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2019, 07:21:46 PM »

Online iam4liberty

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #57 on: April 29, 2019, 07:25:19 PM »
And our laws have never been worse.

So are you doing what Rob Pincus suggests and every dollar your not sending to NRA is being sent to another gun rights organization like SAF?  That would be cool.

Offline antsyaunt

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2019, 07:50:04 PM »
Not much concern.  Letitia James completely undermined her fake investigation by calling NRA a terrorist organization.  The legal team seemingly has things well in hand.  She is a spitting image of Michael Avenatti. 

Abandoned in what way?  The NRA is right now spending huge resources fighting for New Yorkers' rights in the N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Association v. City of N.Y., case in front of the Supreme Court.  The continued losses on that case is why James launched her fake investigation.

I feel abandoned because I am not seeing how there have been changes for the better in the 5 years since the SAFE act was put into place.  We residents who are not in law enforcement or retired LEOs lost so much with that law.  Central NY state is mostly rural.  There are many people who enjoy owning and using firearms whether for hunting or developing marksmanship.  There are also many who feel that owning a gun is important for defending homes and selves.

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Re: Why shoud I keep my NRA membership?
« Reply #59 on: April 29, 2019, 08:42:32 PM »
So are you doing what Rob Pincus suggests and every dollar your not sending to NRA is being sent to another gun rights organization like SAF?  That would be cool.

Yes.  California specific gun rights organizations.