Author Topic: Krav Maga  (Read 25516 times)

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2010, 01:47:04 PM »
I've spared with a couple people who's only hand to hand was a military CQC course. I wasn't much more impressed than I am by random brawlers. The only concept they really tend to get drilled down is not hesitating. There is a lot that can be taught in a few weeks, but it is more mental than technical. Most people that have the mental aspect down have already figured out everything a condensed hand to hand course would teach.
Some of this is one of the realities of the military (and most large complex, hierarchichal organizations).  They hate the idea of long term learning.  They really want nice neat 40 hour instructional blocks with certifications handed out at the end so you can say "done" and check a requirement block off.  Its just the way big organizations naturally gravitate towards for a number of structural reasons.

This approach is by no means the best way to learn things.  However, some of these techniques do have a place.  When trying to teach concepts to large numbers of people, many of which have no real enduring interest in defensive tactics type training that would sustain prolonged martial instruction would be one place.  Another is LE academy settings or schools where they teach executives about to go overseas on business to survive in High Risk areas.  Those situations are where you have a time compressed environment where you need to teach people with little initial ability.  It is a decent first step.


I would also posit that most of the people you have met with military combative experience are not indicative of where I think the military is going in combatives.  The Modern Army Combatives program is very new and still gathering steam.  The Marine Martial Arts program is a little older and has a decent reputation.  As the military takes these initial programs (like the Army's MACP Level 1 (a 40 hour course)) and start to crack the code of a long term skill sustainment and building program on these intial skills, I think the military will have more to offer.  I would also observe that the military sees conducting what it calls "man to man contact" is but one of dozens of vital military tasks a soldier must be able to conduct.  It will simply never get the same treatment by the military that people who are interested in martial arts give to unarmed combat.  To the martial artist, H2H combat istheir passion/hobby/calling.  To the military its just another skill that is needed among dozens.

-Chem

inbox485

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2010, 02:29:53 PM »
Some of this is one of the realities of the military (and most large complex, hierarchichal organizations).  They hate the idea of long term learning.  They really want nice neat 40 hour instructional blocks with certifications handed out at the end so you can say "done" and check a requirement block off.  Its just the way big organizations naturally gravitate towards for a number of structural reasons.

This approach is by no means the best way to learn things.  However, some of these techniques do have a place.  When trying to teach concepts to large numbers of people, many of which have no real enduring interest in defensive tactics type training that would sustain prolonged martial instruction would be one place.  Another is LE academy settings or schools where they teach executives about to go overseas on business to survive in High Risk areas.  Those situations are where you have a time compressed environment where you need to teach people with little initial ability.  It is a decent first step.


I would also posit that most of the people you have met with military combative experience are not indicative of where I think the military is going in combatives.  The Modern Army Combatives program is very new and still gathering steam.  The Marine Martial Arts program is a little older and has a decent reputation.  As the military takes these initial programs (like the Army's MACP Level 1 (a 40 hour course)) and start to crack the code of a long term skill sustainment and building program on these intial skills, I think the military will have more to offer.  I would also observe that the military sees conducting what it calls "man to man contact" is but one of dozens of vital military tasks a soldier must be able to conduct.  It will simply never get the same treatment by the military that people who are interested in martial arts give to unarmed combat.  To the martial artist, H2H combat istheir passion/hobby/calling.  To the military its just another skill that is needed among dozens.

-Chem

Just a tid bit on MCMAP. It is one of the better programs partially because it is a bit more involved than others. I'm familiar with it because it is a heavily watered down version of what I was taught. As a generalization, the major difference between the fast versions and the thorough versions (and why the fast version can often be good enough) is that the fast versions only work on bone heads, while the thorough versions have a viable chance even if the opponent is better trained. So if your enemy is a farmer that was handed an AK and told to fight or their family would be killed, 40 hours of MACP is good enough, and a MCMAP black belt with ~230 hours of training is down right overkill. But if the MCMAP black belt has no other experience, it would be a joke to go up against somebody that learned the original system over the space of several years.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2010, 07:29:19 AM »
Just a tid bit on MCMAP. It is one of the better programs partially because it is a bit more involved than others. I'm familiar with it because it is a heavily watered down version of what I was taught. As a generalization, the major difference between the fast versions and the thorough versions (and why the fast version can often be good enough) is that the fast versions only work on bone heads, while the thorough versions have a viable chance even if the opponent is better trained. So if your enemy is a farmer that was handed an AK and told to fight or their family would be killed, 40 hours of MACP is good enough, and a MCMAP black belt with ~230 hours of training is down right overkill. But if the MCMAP black belt has no other experience, it would be a joke to go up against somebody that learned the original system over the space of several years.
I can see your points.  The "good enough" factor is something that organizations like the military and LE have to consider.  They can teach their people thousands of hours of H2H training and it will not be enough against some foes.  So they have to figure out what a reasonable amount of training is.  For the military, we generally travel in packs of at least ten or so, we have looser Rules Of Engagement than most folk and we carry lots of tools with us.  So if we go up against the proverbial Bruce Lee we will gang tackle him, beat him down while letting our body armor and helmet eat up some of the impact or simply shoot him.  While the MACP mission statements include helping soldiers defend themselves even when they are off duty, that is a secondary consideration compared to battlefield survival and giving the soldier more force options that shooting someone.

Offline Lanakia

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2010, 03:39:35 PM »
I thought this whole post was wether or not this dude should learn Krav Maga? I would like to know if the originator or this post actualy went out and found some kind of self defence program? because when its all said and done knowing anything is better than knowing nothing. Aloha no.

Offline pac1911

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2010, 05:36:06 PM »
With a quality reality based instructor, krav is a worthwhile endeavor.  Krav is missing many of the "art" aspects of the other martial systems.

Making sure that your system is reality based is VITAL.

If you are in the mid west, we will be putting on a 2 day seminar in February.  4 hours of the instruction will be based on Krav Maga.

www.warrior-summit.com will give you the details.
pc

Offline nafterize

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2011, 12:27:49 AM »
Well trolan has probably got everyone interested in taking Krav Maga covered but for those of you in the Los Angeles CA area a former coworker of mine who to this day i still have contact with currently takes Krav Maga at a training center in Culver City CA. She tells me the instructors are great and also taught Krav Maga to the military. I myself am interested in Krav Maga but unfortunately i no longer live in the LA area and have moved to Cerritoes a suburb  about 40-60 minutes away from LA with out traffic (and being in CA traffic could take up to an hour) I did not take it during that time because I was doing (and still am) Brazilian-Jui-Jitsu. Although BJJ may not be effective for defense against multiple people i do it as more of a hobby and it is certainly effective in a 1 on 1 situation. So for those of you who live in the LA area or are planning to visit LA here is the addres and number to the KRAV MAGA studio

Focus Self Defense and Fitness - Krav Maga Culver City
9000 Washington Blvd.
Culver City, CA 90232
1 (310) 558-8400

Oh and I see that the Human WEAPON episode of KRAV MAGA is posted up did anyone see the FIGHT QUEST episode? Just for the heck of it here is part 1 of the fight quest episode Fight Quest [HQ] - Krav Maga part 1/5

I don't suppose anyone knows of a good Krav studio in the Inland Empire, say near Pomona or Chino Hills?

Offline nfoot

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Re: Krav Maga
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2011, 01:12:20 PM »
I train japanese arts judo ju-jutsu plus kick boxing and some russian systems all circular arts good for close combat most modern instructors if honest will tell you what they teach. If they dont then walk away i run a club in the uk and if someone is looking for somethink i dont do i will help them find what they need. If you cant find krav maga look at ju-jutsu