Author Topic: 23 and me... as a survival tool?  (Read 9671 times)

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2018, 04:56:40 PM »
I took the test. 6-8 weeks and I'll finally know.

Online Carl

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2018, 05:00:39 PM »
I took the test. 6-8 weeks and I'll finally know.

Hey cousin!

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2018, 05:27:50 PM »
Hey cousin!

Nah, we're brothers.  ;)

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2018, 08:19:18 PM »
I agree this might have bio-medical applications, but I am unsure this can verify where great-grandpa was really from.

I can tell you mine done with ancestry.com was 100% in alignment with family history on both parents side.
 


The migration patterns were also 100% correct showing when and where my family migrated into the US.  Given one of my ancesters on one side founded a US city and on the other side they all came through Ellis Island (I have the actual forms from immigration) I knew it explicitly.  The DNA test nailed both of these.  Then it notified me of a close relative which turned out to be my nephew who took the test without my knowing.


Online Carl

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2018, 04:29:01 AM »
  OH GOOD,a facebook for DNA.....Maybe they can tell people if they are MALE or FEMALE also to eliminate confusion?

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2018, 06:12:04 AM »
Well it was a surprise... Not in full because it basically agreed I'm mostly Eastern European so the Polish/Austrian/German narrative seems to fit and while it did show Britain I didn't expect to see Scandanavia show up as a big hit. And "Southern Europe" (think Italy/Greece) is a complete mystery.

I'm not sure how much stock I put in the low confidence regions but they included Caucasus, Ireland/Scotland/Wales, and the Middle East.

We're having so much fun with the results. First, I was surprised and not in any of the ways I expected but beyond that it has opened some mysteries. So it makes for good discussion.

Oddly, it may be of some fiscal import as well. Being part Scandanavian in MN is not a bad thing. Beyond the cultural events and organizations there are scholarships and opportunities that my daughter can now benefit from.

It was fun to tell my nephew I'm related to Thor.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2018, 09:24:28 AM »
I turned out to have some Scandinavian, too. I think it may be because of Scandinavians raiding the British Isles. Either that or immigration to British Isles or Germany.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2018, 11:26:24 AM »
So Dave is a Minnesota Viking.  :)

Offline archer

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2018, 12:31:45 PM »
I turned out to have some Scandinavian, too. I think it may be because of Scandinavians raiding the British Isles. Either that or immigration to British Isles or Germany.

or wild parties...

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2018, 02:58:42 PM »
or wild parties...

That would explain our genetic predisposition for such....

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2018, 08:52:46 AM »
I turned out to have some Scandinavian, too. I think it may be because of Scandinavians raiding the British Isles. Either that or immigration to British Isles or Germany.

I wondered this as well but math made me think otherwise. I came back 11% Scandy so using rough math let's round up and say I'm 1/8. That means dad is 1/4 and one of his parents was 1/2 or both were 1/4. That's a little more than a rare Viking attack 800 years ago. So there's a missing story somewhere.

Also consider that using my rounded math I am confident I am 1/2 "Europe East", 1/8 Scandanavian, 1/8 British, 1/8 "Europe South", and 1/8 still unknown. By my math I still don't know half of a grandparent.

If that doesn't weird you out enough imagine my daughter who will be 1/16 of my ethnicities and her great grandchildren might well be 1/128 British and unable to test and learn! I'm already at a point where I might be related to peoples in the Caucuses, Mid East,  and Russia but it's too hard to tell. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally jacked to have grandbabies who are 1/2509235th of everything so we have to celebrate all global holidays (I like a party and an excuse to cook ethnic foods).

It's also interesting that I'm possibly from hundreds of countries, literally everything in Europe, the Anatolian Plateau, and vaguely Mid East. In short I could well be Welsh, Jordanian, and Maltese. Being 5% Caucasus is like coming from the tribe at the crossroads of the world. I could be part Arabic Muslim, Coptic Christian, or Armenian.

It's had a profound effect on me understanding how difficult it is to pin some of this stuff down. Also gives an interesting historical perspective as I am part of cultures who didn't get along very well. Also deepens my respect for the American experience where I am the perfect example of the melting pot. My father's family has been in this country a long time (so long we don't know) and it's clear that they were pretty open to new cultures and different people. That's really nice to think about.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2018, 09:26:16 AM »
I think with time, these results will mean less and less.

For example, if your ancestors were early immigrants to north america (say they came over in the early 1800s from Britain) if you have Scandavian NDA, it could either migration/mixing back in Europe (viking raids) or a great-great grandparent married a person of scandy descent, and that was not obvious based on surname or other historical records.

There are a lot of places in Europe and the middle east that were invaded and conquered repeatedly over the centuries.  Today with everyone traveling everywhere, DNA is harder to attribute to a location.


Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2018, 10:00:04 AM »
Actually I'm a bigger mystery than that. I know my mother's granparents emigrated in the very early 1900s but my father can trace his family back to the early 1800s in North Dakota. I mean real pioneer stuff. It's likely his side of the family was here pre-Revolution. Even the deed to the family farm was a mystery because we didn't know if it was bought or homesteaded or even when and by whom.

Dad has photos and paintings of ancestors he doesn't even know. The DNA test has opened some new questions because we know thatmy great grandfather was born in the Dakotas so maybe the Scandanavian got picked up while he traveled through Minnesota to get back to the Wisconsin family farm?

I know there's a missing branch to the family tree because mom's grandfather came over with 2 brothers and they stayed in NYC while he went to Chicago but dad's story is a complete mystery. As far as I knew I'm originally from the Dakotas. We still don't know the path there.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2018, 10:30:33 AM »
I have a couple branches of the family tree that were here very, very early, 1600's, some settling in New Amsterdam, some in the English colonies. Latest arrivals were Irish famine diaspora on one side, and Scot Mormon converts/immigrants (right after civil war).

So, from the family tree lineage, I knew English, German, Dutch, Irish, Scot, French. While from a lineage of settlers, from early east coast, to some later homesteading in Iowa, to new immigrants making Utah, and old french mix family side moving out, settling and making New Mexico. My grandparents were not farmers though, although half were raised on farms.

23 and me says : British/Irish: 44.2% ; French/German : 7.9% ; Scandinavian: 5% ; Finish .1%; Broadly northwestern European: 37.6%; Broadly European: 2.7%  <-- and that all makes sense. Then, Iberian: 1.1%, broadly southern european: .7% -- so 2% spanish/iberian--..... then Native American .8%

Offline outoforder2day

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2018, 11:04:06 AM »
So 23 and Me can't do the medical correlations anymore thanks to the FDA... But that doesn't mean that you can't.
https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Promethease

Basically you download your data from the relevant service and crunch it using Promethease. Promethease crossreferences your code with SNPedia to see what you may be more susceptible to.

In my case, it helped me to realize that I needed to supplement vitamin B and folic acid which has made a world of difference for my health and energy levels.

Offline mountainmoma

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2018, 11:17:17 AM »
So 23 and Me can't do the medical correlations anymore thanks to the FDA... But that doesn't mean that you can't.
https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Promethease

Basically you download your data from the relevant service and crunch it using Promethease. Promethease crossreferences your code with SNPedia to see what you may be more susceptible to.

In my case, it helped me to realize that I needed to supplement vitamin B and folic acid which has made a world of difference for my health and energy levels.

I did this also, on the advice of my doctor it was the entire reason I did 23andMe, I put the links upthread of where I sent my data to. Genetic Genie is very inexpensive, on a donation basis, it was the one my doctor recommended. I have a B12 uptake problem, homozygous defect, that it showed. This is rare, but means I need alot of the right kind of B12 supplements. And, yes, it has made alot of difference.

I would also recommend this for the more obscure health problems you or your children may have.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2018, 11:49:29 AM »
I have a B12 uptake problem, homozygous defect, that it showed. This is rare, but means I need alot of the right kind of B12 supplements. And, yes, it has made alot of difference.

Great news that you uncovered this and it is making a positive difference.  This is good example of the advantages of this new technology.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2018, 07:14:54 PM »
You can find out some really interesting things from DNA testing, like criminal activity by your doctor:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/04/woman-takes-ancestry-com-dna-test-learns-her-real-dad-is-her-moms-doctor/

Offline Cyd

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2018, 04:53:53 PM »
I am concerned about what the laboratory does with your DNA information.

Offline fritz_monroe

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2018, 06:14:01 PM »
I am concerned about what the laboratory does with your DNA information.
Me too.

On another note, I was watching a YouTube video the other day where they sent samples from identical triplets and quadruplets to several DNA places.  There were differences in their DNA.  Which really shouldn't be the case since identicals are from the same egg.

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2018, 08:17:51 PM »
Me too.

On another note, I was watching a YouTube video the other day where they sent samples from identical triplets and quadruplets to several DNA places.  There were differences in their DNA.  Which really shouldn't be the case since identicals are from the same egg.

Yeah, my father in law brought this up to me. Unfortunately chemical engineers never got statistical training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfWZZ7uPuE

Claiming something is off because of a meager 5% statistical difference is frankly uninformed. Genes are going to express different and different patterns will arise even in identical genetic groups. As a fairly obvious example I could take a set of twins and starve one while force feeding the other and different genes would express. This is the field of epigenetics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

In other words we would never expect twins to actually be genetically identical. They might express different genes differently. And the genetic test is little more than testing what genes express which way. I have shared my results (and password) with my sister in the hope she takes a different genetic test and we can compare results.

I'll ask the obvious statistical question... Why do we assume expression of DNA is the same as DNA? The companies are intentionally vague. To be clear we have an estimated 19000-20000 genes (we don't even know how many) so a 5% difference is something a good statistician would shrug at.

Once again the media runs afoul of statistic mathematics.

Offline Smurf Hunter

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2018, 09:43:19 AM »
I am concerned about what the laboratory does with your DNA information.

I used to worry about such things.  If they decided to clone me, that's their dumb fault.  LOL

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2018, 05:36:49 PM »
I am concerned about what the laboratory does with your DNA information.
I am not particularly concerned about this at the moment, but who knows what the future will bring?  At the very mildest, perhaps hyper-targeted advertising.  At the worst?  "We see that you are a member of this now unpopular ethnic group."

Once that data leaves my hands, its future use is forever at the whim of whoever can buy or steal the testing company's database.

Online Carl

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2018, 01:02:36 AM »
I am concerned about what the laboratory does with your DNA information.

In bulk labs,I think they call it potted meat. :P

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2018, 07:23:31 PM »
Once that data leaves my hands, its future use is forever at the whim of whoever can buy or steal the testing company's database.
Well that steal part didn't take long to jump from "could happen" to "has happened":
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbqyvx/myheritage-hacked-data-breach-92-million
It was just the emails related to 92 million user accounts plus their encrypted passwords, not anyone's actual genetic data.  Still, it's a list of millions people who've signed up for some level of genetic testing.  That's privacy invasion enough for one day.

Offline iam4liberty

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2018, 06:33:30 AM »
Still, it's a list of millions people who've signed up for some level of genetic testing.  That's privacy invasion enough for one day.

Well, there really is no privacy when it comes to genetics.  For years the government has been taking and storing blood samples from babies.  This is used for all sorts of genetic research and there are very few safeguards on it. Texas and Minnesota are the only two states where you can compel them to destroy the sample.  But if you do, they just do a complete analysis and store the data so it does no good.  This data is spread far and wide amoung the research companies. They also have it for everyone who served in the military.  We are only a few decades away from blanket coverage of the US population.  And it is much further along in other countries.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 06:39:36 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2018, 08:15:15 AM »
The results have tightened for me and my DNA has been traced to a small corner of Poland/Slovakia/Czech (at least that part of my history). It's called Malopolska & Swietokrzyskie and I'd need my dead grandfather to pronounce it. From what I read it's an oft conquered peasant land where brutality was the norm until many migrated to the US (namely NYC and Chicago) in the late 1800s. Sounds about right...

Offline David in MN

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Re: 23 and me... as a survival tool?
« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2018, 03:16:16 PM »
Anyone considering doing the test should know... results change over time. Mine updated and a lot changed. Southern Europe is gone so I'm not Greek or Italian. The Caucuses are out too so I'm not one bit Persian. Kind of a bummer because these were fun family mysteries. And I kind of like the thought of being "from everywhere".

On the fun side, I'm Swedish! And to a lesser extent Norwegian! And "Baltic". Time to don the wooden shoes, pickle some fish, and make meatballs. No joke, Ancestry had a tab about panicking because I just lost my "Southern Europe" status and what to do if I'd filled the pantry with olives and pasta. As if I could care. I can still like olives and pasta.

My whole family has been laughing about this for months now. You have to be a complete mystery (like me) but it's like a hilarious spin on the roulette wheel to learn my history. ANd to be fair it's not an easy job to weed out some of these smaller groups in East Europe. Nothing else, it's not such a bad thing to be part Swedish in Minnesota. We have lots of cultural opportunities and things to do that I can take my daughter to and enjoy as part of our heritage. And you can bet your ass I'm going to dig up every traditional Swede holiday and cook some wild Swede foods. I love the idea of exploring unknown family heritage.

I'm excited to see more. There's a lot of vagary around "Germanic" and "Eastern" Europe. And Ancestry will not let me rule out Russia. In fact as it gets tighter with more data their map extends deeper into Russia, covers Ukraine, and darn near touches Mongolia. Absolutely fascinating. I might well be Chechen.