Author Topic: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.  (Read 5050 times)

Offline JollyGreen

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On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« on: August 20, 2016, 12:17:47 PM »
A caller on TSPC episode 1852 asked Jack about the pros and cons of Appendix Inside the WaistBand (AIWB) carry.   It was apparent that the mode of carry doesn't suit Jack, and therefore he has not real experience with it.  I have carried AIWB for several years now, have trained under some prominent AIWB instructors, so I thought I'd share some thoughts. 

For the purpose of this thread, appendix carry will be defined as carrying forward of the hip, on the strong side. 

AIWB is very controversial, and for good reason.  Unlike normal hip carry, Appendix carry has your gun pointed at your "junk", not to mention your femoral artery.  For safety reasons, many well known firearms instructors discourage, and several outright ban appendix carry from their courses.  This should give you a hint of the gravity of this decision.  It's probably not well suited for beginners or the poorly disciplined.  To quote the late Todd Green: "If you %#% up, you die!"

If you pursue AIWB, take it seriously, get educated, get training, practice safely.  Here's a great place to get started:  Please go read the first few posts by ToddG on this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-(Appendix-Carry).    Here is a short video describing the proper method to reholster your gun:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSBgPISVKVI

On gear. 
-Strongly consider a hammer-fired gun, as opposed to striker fired, for AIWB carry.   This gives you the additional ability to control the firing mechanism while re-holstering.  On most double action guns (I don't know about 1911's), by firmly pressing on the back of the decocked hammer, you can make the trigger very difficult to press.  This can help reduce the risk of an accidental discharge into your leg in the event that something (finger, clothing) gets caught in the trigger guard while you reholster.

- AIWB holsters are very personal, more so than normal IWB holsters. What works for me may not work for you. It's very dependent on your body type, rise of your pants, belt configuration. Minor positional adjustments can make a huge difference and you may also end up trying a couple different holsters before you find the perfect one.  Consider a high quality, reasonably priced AIWB specific holster, such as the $75 JM Custom Kydex AIWB holster.* His neoprene wedge will add more tuck (concealment) and may increase comfort, or you can roll your own wedge. I'll be trying that soon.

http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html  (This just one of several high quality AIWB holster makers.  I list it because it's the least expensive. I have no affiliation with him. )
https://limatunesrangediaries.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/the-aiwb-holster-hack/

Once again, appendix carry is very personal.  I would suggest a fair amount of research and training before using it.  When I was considering it, I read a lot about it, considered the pros and cons, and did a lot of introspection about whether I was responsible enough to do it.  I carried an unloaded gun around the house for a couple weeks before going out in public.  I spent that time practicing my draw and reholster techniques.  Several years later I still take it very seriously.  I suggest you do the same. 

Cheers,
David S.

Offline jhull87

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2016, 06:20:22 PM »
Thanks for your input. I've met several people who actually LOVE that carry for several different reasons. A few have been very attractive women whose physical attributes make AIWB functional for them. The other was an old farmer who pulled a .357 6" revolver from his appendix on overalls lol. My question has always been, "I'm a slimmer guy, which is what most people that go to appendix carry say, however, how does a person draw a firearm while seated in a vehicle in appendix carry, and two, what about people who prefer striker fired firearms such as the G26, 19 or 43, that have been shown by some reputable people recently in appendix carry?

Offline JollyGreen

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 06:17:33 PM »
A couple excellent videos on appendix carry.  (second video is NSFW: mild language)

http://youtu.be/gD1-cmqdXWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGU7HbgDIvE

Offline JollyGreen

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 08:39:35 PM »
"I'm a slimmer guy, which is what most people that go to appendix carry say, however, how does a person draw a firearm while seated in a vehicle in appendix carry....

Disclaimer:  I'm not an expert on anything here.  I've carried every day for the last several years in the appendix position.  I have no formal training or real experience in in-fight weapons access inside a vehicle.   Secondly, I'm not advocating anybody carry in this position.  I only hope to provide information based on my study and limited experience.

Many actually find the appendix position more accessible than the strong-side/behind the back position while in a confined space (car, restaurant booth, etc).  It's actually one of the position's strengths.  With strong-side to small-of the-back position, range of motion can be impeded by the seat back.  Additionally, those modes of carry require you to lean forward or to the weak side to access your gun, whereas appendix carry requires you lean back.  This may be advantageous, particularly if you are in close contact with you assailant. 

TNSTAAFL:
I'm not sure how you access your gun from the appendix position while seated, without momentarily muzzling your leg.   Setting yourself up to break one of the cardinal gun safety rules is pretty risky proposition.  You have to weigh the pro's and cons and make that risk assessment. 

...and two, what about people who prefer striker fired firearms such as the G26, 19 or 43, that have been shown by some reputable people recently in appendix carry?

The late Todd Green, over at pistol-training.com, argued strongly against appendix carrying a gun in which you didn't have positive control of the firing mechanism through either a manual safety, external hammer or striker control device.  On the other hand, many others, including some very "reputable", squared away dudes, have decided they don't need that extra level of safety.   This includes the guy from the second video I posted in post #3 of this thread.  To each their own.  They've made their risk assessment and draw the line differently than I do.   I tend to agree with Todd, and therefore personally choose to carry a hammer fired gun. 

For Glocks, I'd look in to a product being developing, called "The Gadget."  (*See note below) For M&P's and other guns, I'd look into the manual safety options.   

*See here: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gadget-a-striker-control-device#/. (I have no financial affiliation with the maker of this product.  I am an online acquaintance of the developer. I believe him to be a good and decent guy developing an good product.)

I hope this helps. 

Cheers,
David S. 

Offline jhull87

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2016, 07:03:57 PM »
Hey thanks for the input. I'm always interested in others opinions on CCW. Full disclosure, I carry a G19 IWB SOB strong side.

As far as acesss to my firearm, yes I'll agree there are better solutions to my position, I.E. shoulder holster, strong side OWB w/ the seat belt unclipped, purhaps even a weak side ankle holster. My train of thought is, I carry concealed to hide my firearm. I can't do that at work with a shoulder holster or an OWB holster. And I can't carry my preferred daily carry in an ankle holster. So I'm not bragging here, I've actually trained pulling my weapon while seated in a vehicle, pulling a weapon when seated in a chair, and engaging targets from a standing position from my CC holster. I COMPLETELY understand how it's easy to arm chair quarterback this whole thing. I've done the same thing and am honestly doing it with the AIWB theory here. I haven't tested it or even tried one of the holsters honestly. (If you're like me you already have WAY to many holsters that you've tried and retired for your CCW).

Offline JollyGreen

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 08:23:00 AM »
One of the biggest problem with shoulder holsters is the ability to train with it.  No range or instructor in their right minds would allow you to live fire from a shoulder holster. 

For daily carry with a tucked in shirt, I'd look into the belly band option.  Apparently Galco makes a good product, then there's Thunderwear and Smart Carry.  In fact, it's time to go order one up. 

Offline jhull87

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 07:40:45 PM »
Training are for me isn't a problem since I'm pretty far out. However, the feasibility of a shoulder holster at work is a problem.

I've carried in a belly band before, especially while running, and it worked great while carrying a small KelTec. In fact I could actually carry it, a knife, license, and CCW permit all in the belly band. However, from my experience they're not the most comfortable carry option and while I know KelTec is the words worst on their finish, the sweat from the belly band rusted the cap out of the slide. Since I'm not one to sell a firearm, Duracoat  solved that problem. But I'd rather not do that to my G19.

My preferred carry holster now is Nate Tactical  (N8Squared) Tuckahoe IWB Compact hoster. I'm on my second one now after the first started to fray (lifetime warranty on them). I have no ties to them at all but I LOVE this holster for how I carry. It's sheepskin on the body side, neoprene on the weapon side and double stitched leather for the holster attachment.

I normally wear a Polo Shirt untucked at work and I simply tuck my under short in over the holster. I've never been questioned at work about me carrying a firearm since I've started using this system.

Richard (richard)

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 08:31:32 PM »
Our firearms instructor wears appendix holster, no safety, chambered. The trigger isn't going to get accessed unless it is out of the holster. I don't have a holster but I practice carrying it under my belt, unloaded, to get a feel for it. He pointed out that on the hip it is difficult to get to without being really obvious and that it sticks out. If you've got a belly it hides it well. If you're thin the slack in your shirt covers it well.

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 09:24:22 PM »
I defer to Murphy's Law here, and point out that a muzzle not pointed at my junk is one less thing to go wrong.  But that's just me, your mileage may vary.

Offline JollyGreen

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 10:45:28 PM »
AIWB is definitely subjective.

It probably works better for folks without much of a gut.
And you have to be comfortable pointing a loaded gun at your junk.

It's not for everyone.

Offline jhull87

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 07:55:31 PM »
Really an AIWB holster doesn't exactly "lean" towards one's junk. I'd be more worried about the femoral. Unless of course your "junk" is larger than mine lol.

Everyone has tear "threshold" of what they should and should not do with a firearm of they need to use it. Personally, I'd rather not flag myself or anyone else that I don't choose to engage when drawing my firearm. That's one of the reasons I choose not to use a shoulder holster. Unless you train down to a fault, you're going to flag something to place sights on your target IMO.

AIWB carry is def up to the user, as I feel should be any CCW. I guess my question still is, what's the upside? I've watched the videos, both that you've posted and multiple other sources. While access seems to be better when seated in say a booth, it doesn't negate the fact for a seat belt while driving and right handed. If I'm reaching strong side small of the back and my hand is already crossing over the buckle, would it not make more sense to continue the path I'm on instead of back tracking?

Like I said, I've done train with what I'm carrying, I've never done anything with AIWB, and maybe I'm over thinking it. I'm sure there are those out there that poopoo my CCW option. But it works for me and at least I have range results to back it. No plan survives contact as they say though.

Offline Newtopian

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016, 08:49:32 AM »
If I'm carrying IWB, it's appendix 100% of the time. Either a G19 or G36. I'm tall and lean, so there's nothing in the way. I have tried 3, 4, 5 o'clock. All worked, but proved uncomfortable when driving.
Something else not mentioned in any of the above comments is concealability. In appendix, I can squat, and I can sit down, and there's no chance of my shirt tail riding up over the grip. There's less to worry about with printing. And even though I print on occasion with slimmer t-shirts, it honestly just looks like shirt. And because of the prudish society in which we live, there's far less of a chance of somebody looking at one's midsection to make a concealed weapon.
As for risk of blowing my boys away, here's my workaround: never, ever reholster a weapon IWB. I have the Galco tuck and go, and it's super simple to clip it into my waist already holstered. If the trigger is always covered, it's impossible for a round to go off.

Appendix is the way to go for me. I've tried others, but always come back to it.

Offline JollyGreen

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2016, 01:01:28 PM »
Jhull87

Appendix carry is simply a mode of carry that works better for some people.

1.  I find that, *for me*, I can conceal a much larger gun in the appendix position than the more standard 3 o'clock position or small of the back. For example, I get noticeable printing carrying in the 3 o'clock position with a Glock 19 or even 26, if I bend over or crouch down. I can appendix carry a Glock 17 (full sized) with hardly any printing at all, no matter how I contort myself. Additionally, I can wear clothes that fit, instead of 2 sizes too big.  There are some other reasons for AIWB, but if it didnt conceal better, I would not use this mode.

2. AIWB will likely be uncomfortable if you have a gut.

3.  Access MAY  be improved in seated or when rolling around with the bad guy.   Or it may not. It depends. All I can say is, take an unloaded out to the car, or kitchen table, or whatever,  and try it both ways.

4. As a shooter becomes more proficient, reholstering can be done safely without removing your holster. Use the lean back technique and diligence.

Again, im NOT advocating AIWB.  It's just another option that may or may not work for you. It has advantages and disadvantages.

Offline khelben

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Re: On Appendix (AIWB) carry.
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2018, 09:37:21 AM »
Sorry I replied to the wrong topic.