Author Topic: good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?  (Read 2125 times)

Offline surfivor

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good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?
« on: September 07, 2016, 07:00:36 AM »

 Anywhere where I can get a good deal on sea berry or black locust ?

Burnt Ridge nursery wants $15 for one sea berry plant .. I'd like to find a better deal .. If not, I guess I might go with something like that ..

Also, black locust for zone 4.5 - 6 .. Both of these seem like nitrogen fixers and I have been hesitant to go with autumn olive as it could get out of control and I am not sure I will always be vigilant to control it etc ..

 I saw burnt ridge has 10 aronia seedlings for $45 (2 years old). I may get those


Offline I.L.W.

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Re: good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 08:23:45 AM »
$15 is a good deal for an improved cultivar. The only cultivar you'll find cheaper in the US or Canada is Leikora, which has been bred for decades and is widely distributed. It's not the best fruit though (still good, but in the same league as many of the other European improved cultivars).

I've bought them from BurntRidge before, both times they ran out of stock on the one I wanted (no fault of their own, there's a demand and they're one of the only publically accessible outlets with a good selection).

I would urge you to spend even more on a large male plant. In my experience, they're just not as rugged as the females. The females are selectively bred, the males are only for pollination and seem to be less vigorous seedlings, a byproduct of the nursery fields that have been cloned from cuttings. They don't seem to be selected for their traits. Get a larger male (or two).

For black locust, Cold Stream Farms has great prices. Their 2-3' saplings are 100 for $120. Not a bad price. I recommend planting them on mounds or hillsides. The young trees don't like wet roots. Once they're larger, it won't matter, so if field planting, a small mound is all you need.

Black locust is not a "True" nitrogen fixer in the sense most people are familiar with. It can still work for that purpose, but most of the nitrogen comes from the leaves in the fall. They hold onto it after they drop, but decompose very quickly. You'll get a high nitrogen level at the soil surface, but not down deep. That's actually a good thing, depending on what other plants their nursing.

BurntRidge is also a good source for Aronia. I haven't found any east-coast suppliers that offer improved fruiting cultivars. Most of the country sells ornamental varieties. For fruit, you have to look toward the Pacific North West to find any still being actively improved. If you're going to pay for shipping on the Seabuckthorn anyway, makes sense to do it all in one order. 10 Plants is realistically all you'll need. At maturity, you get about 5-8lbs of berries per bush, and they're really only good juiced, and diluted in other juices or with honey water. 10 Plants will be a bushel and a half, enough to make a couple of gallons, which will stretch a long way at a 10:1 dilution. Just make a syrup of the juice to preserve it.

Offline surfivor

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Re: good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 07:01:54 AM »

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For black locust, Cold Stream Farms has great prices. Their 2-3' saplings are 100 for $120. Not a bad price. I recommend planting them on mounds or hillsides. The young trees don't like wet roots. Once they're larger, it won't matter, so if field planting, a small mound is all you need.

 I could be a little concerned about planting that many in the ground before winter. Alot of places ship late and you get the stuff a week before the ground freezes. I tend to plant seedlings at my mothers house and then dig them up as I need them in the spring or the following year ..

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BurntRidge is also a good source for Aronia. I haven't found any east-coast suppliers that offer improved fruiting cultivars. Most of the country sells ornamental varieties. For fruit, you have to look toward the Pacific North West to find any still being actively improved.

 Burnt ridge is an ornamental variety ? Where can you get some from the NW ?


Offline I.L.W.

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Re: good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2016, 08:03:01 AM »
Sorry, clarification: Burnt Ridge is from the North West and has fruiting cultivars. I meant you won't likely find other suppliers outside their region. There's a program to improve them happening in Nova Scotia, but they're not being made publically available yet.

As for the locust, fall is the best time to plant. Even in dormancy, the roots can continue to grow. The soil tends to stay moist (the drought season is a good 8 months off for most people), giving the plant more time to establish before drought could become an issue. Transpiration (the loss of water through the leaves) is lower because the leaves will have fallen off. It also gives the roots of newly established plants time to adjust to the pH of the new soil without the added stress of continued growth at the same time.

https://youtu.be/C116RDC0FLU

The target for fall planting is 6 weeks before your first hard freeze (a full week below 32°F, when the dirt become "crunchy"). A light frost doesn't matter.

If you hold out until mid-october and have access  to cuttings, you can try the "Live-stake" method.

Take a new, fairly straight limb and cut it 2" below the junction between last year's growth and this years. You end up with 2-3' whip with two inches of two year old wood at the bottom. Stick that in the ground so only about 4" are above ground. No digging, just press it into the soil as you would a bamboo stake. In spring it should start leafing out.

I've never done it with black locust (some plants are better candidates than others). It works very well however with ninebark, sand cherry, mulberry, willow, maple, birch etc. Losses are admittedly high, but if you have a large tree, you can take hundreds of cuttings. If only 10% survive, it's still a lot of free trees. This is how you reforest an area on a budget. You can also buy live stakes much cheaper than rooted plants. Just be mindful that there will be losses.

This lady does it a bit differently than I do, but her method seems just as effective and will give you a great introduction to the method.
https://youtu.be/Ty8JQMLUk3k


Offline surfivor

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Re: good deals on buckthorn (sea berry) and black locust ?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 11:20:35 AM »

On the black locust:
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The target for fall planting is 6 weeks before your first hard freeze (a full week below 32°F, when the dirt become "crunchy"). A light frost doesn't matter.

 The price looked good, I emailed them and they said:

 
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Our Black Locust would be shipping out mid to late November once they become dormant.

 Based on that, I doubt they would end up in the ground 6 weeks before a hard freeze