Author Topic: "Unaffordable" Care Act  (Read 24347 times)

Offline RuggedCyclist

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2015, 12:30:24 PM »
It's actually even much worse than just paying inflated costs for yourself, your insurance costs are subsidizing free and/or required to be provided "treatments" for others. Your premium is also paying for your neighbor's kids vaccines and well visits, their teacher's birth control, the soccer mom's weekly psych visit, and the cocaine addict's rehab.

Because my existence is a debt to the rest of society that must be repaid with my labor by force of necessary right? This is like Atlas Shrugged stuff here.

Offline Chris Gilliam

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2015, 03:52:29 PM »
I haven't signed up yet...

Offline RuggedCyclist

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2015, 07:35:54 PM »
I haven't signed up yet...

Neither have I. The fee for 2015 is 2% of your income or $325 per person in your household, whichever is higher. https://www.healthcare.gov/fees-exemptions/fee-for-not-being-covered/

I'm pretty sure either of those is cheaper than insurance, unless you make a lot of money. Even at $100k/year, 2% is $2,000, which is less than you'd pay for insurance, by the sounds of it.

Oh and there's not a lot of teeth in this fee...
Quote
What happens if I don't pay the fee?

    The IRS will hold back the amount of the fee from any future tax refunds. There are no liens, levies, or criminal penalties for failing to pay the fee.

Offline surfivor

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2015, 11:44:31 PM »
 The medical system employs a ton of people and is based on a massive for profit type of thing that many people buy into.

They buy into it because they actually believe all these doctors, drugs, expensive cures, and magic pills are really the answer to their problems when it is a massive bunch of lies for the most part.

the doctors and health aids all buy into it because they want to believe that they are doing something good and they need the money and are paid well; But the whole system was designed by the Rockefellers (see: Abraham Flexner report) .. So these people are just a version of the brainwashed zombies that you fear

 All the "walk for cancer" nonsense is also a bunch of lies. There has been all this talk of curing cancer but they really don't want to cure cancer and have no incentive to do any such thing.

 It's all just a humongous money making thing and a giant economy in itself and everyone would be better off if they got rid of most of the drugs and expensive treatments or banned them as frauds and we all just looked into herbal treatments, better diets, healthier lifestyles, cleaner air and water .. etc etc

You pay high premiums so all the unhealthy nuts who eat wrong and have unhealthy lifestyles can go running back and forth to the doctor constantly with some other new bottle of pills especially designed to be expensive and patented in the high tech lab with all the fancy and hard to pronounce words just like some witch doctor who can say some hard to pronounce spell 

 

osubuckeye4

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2015, 07:55:30 AM »
The medical system employs a ton of people and is based on a massive for profit type of thing that many people buy into.

They buy into it because they actually believe all these doctors, drugs, expensive cures, and magic pills are really the answer to their problems when it is a massive bunch of lies for the most part.

the doctors and health aids all buy into it because they want to believe that they are doing something good and they need the money and are paid well; But the whole system was designed by the Rockefellers (see: Abraham Flexner report) .. So these people are just a version of the brainwashed zombies that you fear

 All the "walk for cancer" nonsense is also a bunch of lies. There has been all this talk of curing cancer but they really don't want to cure cancer and have no incentive to do any such thing.

 It's all just a humongous money making thing and a giant economy in itself and everyone would be better off if they got rid of most of the drugs and expensive treatments or banned them as frauds and we all just looked into herbal treatments, better diets, healthier lifestyles, cleaner air and water .. etc etc

You pay high premiums so all the unhealthy nuts who eat wrong and have unhealthy lifestyles can go running back and forth to the doctor constantly with some other new bottle of pills especially designed to be expensive and patented in the high tech lab with all the fancy and hard to pronounce words just like some witch doctor who can say some hard to pronounce spell


I agree with some of what you're saying... but I'm sorry, I can't get on the "all doctors are frauds" bandwagon.

My uncle was a surgeon for decades.

I've yet to stumble across any herbal remedies for a gunshot wound, or for a heavy machinery accident, or for a car crash where someone not wearing a seatbelt went through a windshield.

Hospitals are needed, as are doctors and surgeons. The skills needed to treat people in the types of accidents I listed above take years of practice to refine, the people performing them should be compensated well for their efforts.

Big-pharma? That's a beast of it's own... to lump them in with hospitals and doctors and say that it's all some kind of gigantic conspiracy is very irresponsible though.

Sure, there are aspects of the medical industry that are suspect, there are some that are outright fraudulent... but it's not all some gigantic scheme to screw people.

Offline Carl

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2015, 08:06:25 AM »
Governmental over regulation is a major factor in what is wrong with medicine today.

Just my opinion.

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2016, 02:04:55 PM »
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/276366-insurers-warn-losses-from-obamacare-are-unsustainable 

I fully expect my company provided health insurance to increase substantially in 2017 to subsidize some of the loses from ACA. 

Offline bigbear

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Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2016, 09:15:19 AM »
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/significant-premium-hikes-expected-under-074315185.html 

A few thoughts:

1. Actual disclosure of increase requests.
Quote
Virginia, a state that reports early, nine insurers returning to the HealthCare.gov marketplace are seeking average premium increases that range from 9.4 percent to 37.1 percent. Those initial estimates filed with the state may change.

2. It's not where they want it (or where they say it is?).
Quote
The health law's nagging problems seem to center on lower-than-hoped-for enrollment, sicker-than-expected customers, and a balky internal stabilization system that didn't deliver as advertised and was already scheduled to be pared back next year.

3. Medicare/aid is 'stable' in comparison.

4. The administration is in denial.


Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2016, 07:32:14 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/05/30/obamacare-is-failing-on-purpose/3/#3ef8a9843fb3

This article positions the failure of Obamacare as a push toward a single-payer system.  Hillary has shifted from supporting Obamacare to an expanded "Medicare for More".  Bernie has been all in for a single-payer since the word 'socialism' was coined.  So the left is moving for more gov't control.

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2016, 11:33:36 AM »
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2016/05/30/obamacare-is-failing-on-purpose/3/#3ef8a9843fb3

This article positions the failure of Obamacare as a push toward a single-payer system.  Hillary has shifted from supporting Obamacare to an expanded "Medicare for More".  Bernie has been all in for a single-payer since the word 'socialism' was coined.  So the left is moving for more gov't control.

No way, the left moving for more government control.... I just refuse to believe it... How could it be...

/sarcasm

If you insert right in place of left, I still think it would be true, or just put politician in place of left it pretty much covers it.

This act could never work, it gives the insurance companies every incentive possible to drive up costs and eliminates any incentive to save money. When they limit margin to 15% you can only make more money by raising costs and premiums, since 15% of a larger number is more money, there is no incentive to lower costs and try to get 16%, it isn't allowed. Any 6th grader with a rudimentary understanding of math could see this... so we either believe that congress couldn't understand it, didn't care to think about it, or designed this to fail (maybe all of the above)

Offline Sailor

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2016, 12:09:28 PM »
They just need to stop calling it insurance.  It is no longer insurance.  Companies can't match price to risk anymore.

And they need to charge by the Pound and Pack (cigarettes)

I think its time we talk about common sense affordable Auto insurance.  Just because you got caught driving drunk twice does not mean you should have to pay more for your Auto insurance right? 

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2016, 01:11:55 PM »
If you insert right in place of left, I still think it would be true, or just put politician in place of left it pretty much covers it.

Fair enough.  Politicians are all populists to some degree. 

The article didn't mention Trump's stance on health care.  I checked his website and it says repeal ACA, a federal law to supersede state borders for insurance sales, tax breaks/HSA, Medicare spending reform/cuts, pharma reform, restrict illegal immigration...  It could easily be described as partisan politics. 
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform

And who knows if it's legit anyway.  He's also mentioned universal healthcare and keeping coverage for pre-existing conditions as well.  And a veritable plethora of other random ideas.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/09/us/politics/donald-trump-health-care.html

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2016, 11:25:54 AM »
Some news has been missed on this thread...  where insurance companies are pulling out of state exchanges. 

But this article is about decreased enrollment due to the insurance rate hikes.  Which would destabilize the whole financial scheme.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2016/09/01/obamacare-rate-hikes-rattle-consumers-could-threaten-enrollment/89664628/


Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2016, 04:15:23 PM »
yep. insurance companies are actually bailing out left and right and I think it was Pinal County (not sure state) will have 10K people with no option to insure AT ALL. Everywhere else, coverage costs are exceeding rates, which means rates are going up wherever companies are staying in the market.

Right now, to get insurance to cover the family, it would cost us over $1200/month through my husband's "employer." He's employed through a recruiting firm as a contractor to another company and has to pay the full cost of insurance. Fortunately, that puts us above the threshold where we won't get penalized for not having coverage. Bad side is that we have no coverage and pay all out of pocket. Of course what we actually use, chiropractic, is only ever minimally covered in even the best of insurance plans.

Offline Ms. Albatross

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2016, 07:08:13 PM »
yep. insurance companies are actually bailing out left and right and I think it was Pinal County (not sure state) will have 10K people with no option to insure AT ALL.

Arizona

Offline Carl

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2016, 08:23:25 AM »
As I sit here with material oozing from my eyes ,blurring my vision,lesions in my skin itching and some bleeding...
my skin breaking down and splitting at my fingers causing bleeding on my keyboard and my mind in nearly as good
of condition as my body...all the effects of chemo....I know there are many people worse off than me.


And yet I receive the best of care at the cancer center.  I guess I can't complain after having stepped through Death's door twice and
twice returned. At it's worst, life is a blessing. Greet each day as you would a lover,with joy and excitement,as each day might be your last.

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2016, 09:49:47 PM »
Carl, you rock!  Thanks for the perspective check. 

Offline Carl

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2016, 04:51:56 AM »
Carl, you rock!  Thanks for the perspective check.

I thought I might have come across as a whiner...
Seconds after this post,I fell and lost the hide on my right knee...KARMA can set you straight at times.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 05:01:45 AM by Carl »

Offline Cedar

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2016, 09:38:04 AM »
I believe it was in ancient China, that you paid your doctor when you were well. When you were sick, you did not pay him. It was an incentive for the doctor to keep you well.

Too bad that mentality did not exist today with doctors, pharmaceuticals. EPIPENS which cost 600x more today than they did a couple years ago.

EDIT: I found an article.. it was not ancient China, but only a mere 100 years ago
http://www.saratoga.com/healing-arts/2009/05/the-beauty-of-chinese-medicine.html
http://www.seagateworld.com/2015/06/western-medicine-get-paid-when-you-get-sick/

EpiPens http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/opinion/sunday/the-lesson-of-epipens-why-drug-prices-spike-again-and-again.html?_r=0
Daraprim http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/business/a-huge-overnight-increase-in-a-drugs-price-raises-protests.html?_r=0

When I asked my auto insurance guy why I was paying so much more now on my 16 yr old truck, than when it was new, he said, "due to the high increases of medical insurance claims and their costs".

Cedar

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2016, 08:47:40 PM »
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/10/12/gov-dayton-affordable-care-act/

Democratic governor on MN breaks bad on Obamacare...  Queue the single payer government plan.


And I love how the article just says Clinton and goes on with the understanding that they are talking about Bill.

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2016, 12:57:17 PM »
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/physician-obamacare-participation-plummets-20-percent

Physicians are questioning whether Obamacare insurance is worth it now... 

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2016, 01:45:51 PM »
The ACA saga Act II:  The Trump Years.  Add selective populism to the socialism and what do you get?

The funny (not funny) part is that the insurance industry pushed to the passage of ACA.  Then industry members began requesting rate increases and pulling out of exchanges.  Now they transition to their list of demands as it crumbles under its own weight. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/business/health-insurers-obamacare-republicans.html?_r=0 

Also, here's a good visual to understand what's driving the premium cost increases.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-obamacare-dilemma/

Offline xxdabroxx

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2016, 04:26:01 PM »
Heard that insurance will cost an additional 20% more next year for our office.  This BS sucks.

Offline Carl

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2016, 06:12:58 PM »
Heard that insurance will cost an additional 20% more next year for our office.  This BS sucks.

BS = Barry Soetoro ( Barack Obama )

Offline bigbear

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2016, 07:57:14 AM »
Heard that insurance will cost an additional 20% more next year for our office.  This BS sucks.

Mine is going up 8%... after a 7% increase last year.  And the coverage is worse.  A few years back my company switched insurance providers.  The premiums didn't change, but the prenatal coverage was worse.  To offset the worse coverage, they started giving 'family bonding time' for having a baby or adopting a child.  It was nice, but going from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars for a child was a sticker shock.

Offline FrugalFannie

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2016, 08:03:03 PM »
Mine is going up 8%... after a 7% increase last year.  And the coverage is worse.  A few years back my company switched insurance providers.  The premiums didn't change, but the prenatal coverage was worse.  To offset the worse coverage, they started giving 'family bonding time' for having a baby or adopting a child.  It was nice, but going from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars for a child was a sticker shock.

Consider yourself lucky. I have friends whose premium cost is going up 30%!

osubuckeye4

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2016, 08:57:20 AM »
Mine is going up 8%... after a 7% increase last year.  And the coverage is worse.  A few years back my company switched insurance providers.  The premiums didn't change, but the prenatal coverage was worse.  To offset the worse coverage, they started giving 'family bonding time' for having a baby or adopting a child.  It was nice, but going from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars for a child was a sticker shock.

I'm in the same boat.

Company has kept costs from skyrocketing... by slashing our coverage.


I don't really mind it, since I visit the doctor maybe once every 3-4 years... and my daughter is on my wifes (much better) plan.

I do feel for my co-workers with pre-existing conditions which require numerous doctors visits and more frequent ER trips. They are getting bent over the barrel by rising co-pays/deductibles/etc.

Offline Carl

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2016, 10:20:46 AM »
AND they decide when to NOT PROVIDE CARE due to age or productiveness of the patient.
Otherwise know as what value as a tax payer,voter are you.

osubuckeye4

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Re: "Unaffordable" Care Act
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2016, 10:52:13 AM »
AND they decide when to NOT PROVIDE CARE due to age or productiveness of the patient.
Otherwise know as what value as a tax payer,voter are you.

Yea, weird timing. I just had a very awkward impromptu meeting with one of my reports about something along these lines (tangently related).


Apparently the insulin medication she was on is no longer being covered under our prescription plan. So, basically she's going from paying a $50 co-pay to having to pay $200 for the same product.

I didn't really know what to tell her, outside of talking to her doctor to see if there are any similar medications which might be covered at a more reasonable cost.

Freaking sucks for her, I felt legitimately bad. Especially when you consider that we had to lock in all our FSA amounts 2 weeks before she was notified of the change. So, she budgeted for $600 in expenses... and now she's looking at $2400 ($200/quarterly).  :(

Oh, and her premiums went up... double whammy.

I basically just had to tell her that I empathize with her situation... but, not to shoot the messenger, and that there was unfortunately not a whole lot that I could do. I didn't feel good about it at all though.