Author Topic: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.  (Read 7808 times)

Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2017, 04:04:11 PM »
I have a basic question. What does a military helmet protects one from?
Bullets or debris and shrapnel mostly?

Offline Carl

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2017, 07:52:18 PM »
I have a basic question. What does a military helmet protects one from?
Bullets or debris and shrapnel mostly?

You are correct...Helmets are typically intended only to protect against shrapnel, ricochets and bullet grazes. The U.S. Army Personnel Armor System Ground Troops (PASGT) helmet [1] has 29 layers of Kevlar [2], which is commonly known as a component of bullet-proof vests, but was reported to have not successfully withstood the impact of bullets of typical size
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Offline NWPilgrim

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 02:30:39 AM »
Yeah, wasn't M855 (62 gr with steel penetrator) specially designed to penetrate helmets out to at least 200 yrs?

I've never heard of someone bragging about how their helmet stopped a head-on impact from any type of rifle bullet.  Usually they are surviving glancing shots or shrapnel.  Supposedly in WW1 and WW2 far more lives were lost from artillery shrapnel than from bullets so the helmets were designed for that.  But in today's battlefield where we have overwhelming air, armor and artillery firepower it seems our soldiers are much more likely to encounter direct rifle fire rather than artillery, except sometimes mortar and RPG.  Makes you wonder if it would be better to have a much lighter, more ventilated helmet that protects from bumps and is a platform for NV/cams, etc.  Any .mil or veterans want to comment on your opinion of the current helmet design, weight and does it serve it purpose or is it overbuilt for actual conditions?

I believe rangers and other spec ops may use much lighter impact shells mainly for just this, bumps and attaching device, and not so much as protect from bullets or shrapnel.
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Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 03:16:48 AM »
To this I will add that the US has been fighting guerilla warfare the past decades.
things will be far different against USSR forces (huge artillery) in the fields of its former east European states.

Offline Carl

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2017, 05:42:47 AM »
If you proceed with your project , I would start with a low cost bike or climbing helmet as you will screw the first one or two up while positioning gadgets and I would start,or even finish,with an infrared scope as a 'game finder' as infrared has many uses like thermal sealing a home,game finder,varmint vision...though ai always want to see and recognize my target and I don't do this well,even with my friends Generation 3 starlight scope. 
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Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2017, 10:54:46 AM »
things will be far different against USSR forces (huge artillery) in the fields of its former east European states.

Will?
23:57:30

Offline Carl

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2017, 01:21:00 AM »
?????
mercy, I am doing my best in understanding but not a native speaker of.

well my hypothesis was that a possible involvement of the US (or any major power) in a land warfare will bring back the no1 killer in the battlefield (read that as eastern Europe or N.Korea), the artillery. hence the need for shrapnel protection.

Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 02:31:29 AM »
?????
mercy, I am doing my best in understanding but not a native speaker of.

well my hypothesis was that a possible involvement of the US (or any major power) in a land warfare will bring back the no1 killer in the battlefield (read that as eastern Europe or N.Korea), the artillery. hence the need for shrapnel protection.

I figured that's what you meant, but "will" sounds so certain that I wanted to make sure.

And I agree about N. Korea.  Can you imagine living in Seoul with that much artillery trained on you 24/7?
23:57:30

Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2017, 05:37:04 AM »
NOW I get it!. I should have written "would" as it was an hypothesis. Correct?


Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2017, 06:27:25 AM »
NOW I get it!. I should have written "would" as it was an hypothesis. Correct?
yes.  your english is so good that we sometimes forget you are not a native speaker (and I for one, having studied a few foreign languages, think that English would be one of the worst to learn!)
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Offline FreeLancer

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2017, 11:31:31 AM »
NOW I get it!. I should have written "would" as it was an hypothesis. Correct?

I would.
23:57:30

Offline Ken325

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2017, 05:48:50 PM »
Quote
it seems our soldiers are much more likely to encounter direct rifle fire rather than artillery

I served in a medical unit in Landstuhl Germany during the Gulf War.  Injured people were moved to the hospital in Landstuhl ASAP during that war.  I saw two people with bullet wounds and about 200 with burns.  Maybe it was the nature of that war, that people in vehicles or buildings would be hit with explosives.  I was shocked by the number of burn wounds and by the lack of bullet wounds. Of course we only had about 400 causalities in that war and about 50 of those were from a women's barracks that was hit by a scud missile.

Offline Lostjagged

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2017, 11:08:34 PM »
If you're just looking at a helmet for hanging things like night vision and for low hanging branches look into a quality airsoft helmet. They do the job well and cost a fraction of the price.

As for how useful ballistic helmets are... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdYAC6ag6q4
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Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2017, 09:16:05 PM »
I've thought about the helmet issue for a lot of years. In the end I chose to wear a motorcycle helmet when I'm on my Honda CB750K. A bike helmet when on my bicycle and I bought surplus riot helmets for the rest of the family when there were being dumped for $17.99 from an on-line surplus dealer. I think it was "Major Surplus and Survival".  I will be getting appropriate helmets for my boys if we proceed with the quad purchases as well. I believe in head protection as head injuries are game changers. I don't believe the Tactical and tacticool helmets are worth the money unless you are going into harms way on purpose and often. Even in the military Helmets were for ancillary damage of shrapnel and bump protection not bullets. The action sports market is producing a lot of options if you want a way to mount some affordable gear on your head. The reason i bought the surplus helmets was to provide some head protection during a forced vehicular bugout during civil unrest as they provide quite good protection against hand thrown objects and debris.

Regards,
Shadowalker

PS: I also have my hardhats available from my construction days. In Red, White, Green, Yellow and Brown. The company I worked for at the time required all on-site engineers and chief foremen to wear white hats and all safety personal to wear red hats (i served in both capacities). The others I somehow acquired throughout the years.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 09:23:10 PM by shadowalker_returns »
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Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2017, 08:24:06 AM »
I believe in head protection as head injuries are game changers. I don't believe the Tactical and tacticool helmets are worth the money unless you are going into harms way on purpose and often.


As someone with multiple knockout concussions, I can tell you that yes, they definitely are game changers.


To be honest, I've done a lot of reading, and incidents of brain injury/concussion actually went up in the NFL as helmets "improved" and became more protective.  Humans are the real problem, and when humans put on a helmet they take more risks and are willing to take more hits.  Since the real damage come from your brain moving around inside your skull and hitting the surfaces inside, helmets are only useful if you act like you're not wearing one.

The most recent knockout I had, I was wearing a full face motorcycle helmet (and a chest protector and gloves), but when you get thrown several feet down a hill and land on a pile of rocks, there's not much you can do about it.

Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2017, 10:51:25 AM »
If you're just looking at a helmet for hanging things like night vision and for low hanging branches look into a quality airsoft helmet. They do the job well and cost a fraction of the price.

then how about expired helmets? Are these the ones that are sold as surplus?

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2017, 10:46:28 PM »
then how about expired helmets? Are these the ones that are sold as surplus?

Not necessarily. Surplus helmets are sold because the source wants them gone. Reasons are not usually given though if its because they are no longer deemed safe for the rated purpose that is stated (at reputable dealers anyway). Expired helmets are at the manufacturer's suggested end of life.

The reason for the expirations is that the inner layer of EPS (expanded polystyrene) that lines the helmet degrades with time and exposure to sunlight, oils and the contaminates in hair, skin and air. The outer shell is usually good as long as it has not had an impact. The liner of the better helmets are replaceable.  The expiration date of most helmets are usually 7 years after their manufacture date. Its checked at most sanctioned racing events I've attended and most folks I know who use a helmet as a Pro or Semi Pro get new helmets after an impact or 3 years whichever comes first. Again its not the shell that degrades its the liner. The liner by the way is the most critical part of the helmet system as it keeps your head from rattling around and stops the direct transfer of impact forces through the shell. I am of the opinion that any decent helmet even an expired one is better than no helmet. Those people who say a helmet is more likely to hurt you than the accident are the same ones who don't wear safety belts because they might "jam" and trap them in the vehicle and just as ... Well ask iany First Responder who cleans up after a non-helmet wearing motorcycle event or go to any children's hospital emergency room in an area popular with quads/motocross/skaters and ask there opinion of helmets. If the liner is intact, in good condition and your strapped for cash, don't worry about the date... wear the helmet.

Regards,
Shadowalker
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Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2017, 01:47:37 AM »
...well, actually I was speaking of military helmets

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2017, 08:01:00 AM »
Those people who say a helmet is more likely to hurt you than the accident are the same ones who don't wear safety belts because they might "jam" and trap them in the vehicle and just as ... Well ask iany First Responder who cleans up after a non-helmet wearing motorcycle event or go to any children's hospital emergency room in an area popular with quads/motocross/skaters and ask there opinion of helmets.

To clarify my previous comment, I do think helmets protect people and definitely should be worn if there's any chance of a head injury.

My point was not that they're ineffective, and that it would be best not to wear them, but that wearing them changes the behavior of the person wearing it, making them more willing to take risks that they might not otherwise.

So wear one, but be just as careful and protective of your gray matter as you would be if you weren't.

Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2017, 10:40:10 AM »
To clarify my previous comment, I do think helmets protect people and definitely should be worn if there's any chance of a head injury.

My point was not that they're ineffective, and that it would be best not to wear them, but that wearing them changes the behavior of the person wearing it, making them more willing to take risks that they might not otherwise.

So wear one, but be just as careful and protective of your gray matter as you would be if you weren't.

Your point is very valid. Helmets don't protect from Stupid.  :D

Regards,
Shadowalker
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Offline shadowalker_returns

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2017, 10:42:44 AM »
...well, actually I was speaking of military helmets

The critical thing with military helmets is the suspension/liner. The helmets themselves don't go bad unless they've been damaged.

Regards,
Shadowalker
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Offline Lostjagged

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2017, 03:46:30 PM »
Shadowalker is correct. When buying a second hand helmet of any type the first thing you should do is inspect it for damage and base your purchase on that.

Greekman, I am unsure on what you have access to via surplus. Are you looking at the old steel pots that are little more than a glorified hard hat, or do you have access to more modern designs? If you do have access via surplus to kevlar remember that any mods to the helmet that requires you to drill holes compromises the ballistic characteristics.
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Offline Greekman

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2017, 05:42:19 AM »
considering that the Greek army still issues the potty helmet  :-[, I have access to none!
i know there are some expired European coming from time to time,  so friendly reservists' club has bought some ar training/drill/simulation aids.

Offline chrisdfw

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2017, 10:15:45 AM »
The thing about night vision is if you do it right, it is a lot of money.  Like I said, I have a gen one night vision monocular.  It is kind of a toy but it could be useful.  If I were to do night vision right it would require the helmet ($300), a gen 3 monocular ($2000), and a dual IR iluminator- IR laser sight like the Steiner DBAL ($750).  So, that is over $3000 to do night vision that I will probably not use much.  That is a BIG commitment.


But a lot of fun toys to play with... always look at the bright side

Offline mootz

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2017, 08:15:33 PM »
I know it's a great expense for a ballistic helmet and the accessories that hang off it, but my thoughts are if you choose to get body armor, why not get matching armor for your head?  The military and SWAT teams do it.  Just a thought...

Offline Carl

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2017, 04:08:34 AM »

But a lot of fun toys to play with... always look at the bright side

I'd think the dim side more useful with night vision.
Remember that unless zombies become reality ,storms and nature just don't respect tactical equipment. Shooting a storm will have limited effect.
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline Alan Georges

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2017, 08:13:40 AM »

Artes sunt magis quam instrumenta.

Offline Carl

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Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: Buying a helmet, is it needed and what kind.
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2017, 08:39:03 AM »
Somebody should clue these people in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41201494/people-like-ryon-are-going-to-shoot-at-hurricane-irma
 ???


I give them an A for effort and enthusiasm, but an F for science and common sense.