Author Topic: General Nuclear War Discussion Place  (Read 16495 times)

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2017, 12:00:10 PM »
We just tested a Minuteman III yesterday.

http://www.stripes.com/news/air-force/air-force-test-launches-minuteman-missile-from-california-1.453221

The test program is periodic.  Global Strike Command pulls randomly selected missiles from their silo, remove the warheads and ship the missile to Vandenberg AF base in California.  It is placed in a missile silo there, armed with an inert warhead and a crew from the missile wing that owned the missile gets to launch it. The target is general at Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands of the South Pacific.  The launch from Vandenberg for several reasons.  1st, it is on the coast so the entire path from launch to Kwajalein has no population centers.  Secondly, as the only location we launch from, it lessens the chance of misunderstanding with other nations that detect the launch (my understanding is that we still warn them we are conducting a test).

A Minuteman III launch animation showing the sequence of events from launch to impact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Wx1DGVAhQ

Offline Carl

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2017, 01:09:24 PM »
   I was not 10 minutes ago,visiting with one of the top dogs of GSC from here at Barksdale as I shared with him some HF I copied
some fishing boats in the gulf were getting all tingly down their legs after a bit from some ALE HF traffic they were allowed to hear.

But he and I mostly shared my parts and info to make the antenna I use and software that allows me to hear stuff I am not supposed to hear.
Hams are responsible for much radio innovation.  :tinfoily:

DaMeteor

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2017, 04:46:58 PM »
Radiation exposure anywhere isn't good. Most typical daily exposures dont matter too much. What i read about radiation sickness i think mentioned intestinal pain because there are a lot of pain receptors in there, your brain doesn't have any.

Something many people may not realize. Those big yellow radiation suits are mostly just plastic  ( polymer, vinyl, rubber, whatever ) they dont offer much shielding, but they do wash off easy, and prevent inhalation of fallout.

Something i just learned last year. Radiation will destroy electronics. Not talking emp, just straight rads. The higher the rads, the quicker it breaks down. Heard on the news recently the robot being used to clean up the fukushima mess died after only 2 hours of exposure.
Well what I'm doing right now is modifying a cheap hazmat suit and trying to line it with lead, I plan to cover all over but I want to know where I should focus more of my lead.

Offline Carl

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2017, 05:59:01 PM »
Well what I'm doing right now is modifying a cheap hazmat suit and trying to line it with lead, I plan to cover all over but I want to know where I should focus more of my lead.

Off hand I would say the organs...and get some iodine pills to defend the organs also.

Offline Ken325

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2017, 09:08:20 PM »
Quote
What exactly do you mean "continue the fight" exactly? Like continuing the fight with nukes or what exactly?
I mean continuing to fight the enemy.  A lot (as in most) of the Soviet plans to invade Europe started with a chemical attack or with small tactical nukes.  Our policy was a chemical weapon is equivalent to a nuke. So our plan for a chemical or biological attack was to reply with small nukes. We had to have a plan to shelter long enough to protect forces, then rise up and shoot back to stop the invasion.

Offline Atomic Punk

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2017, 03:37:13 AM »
Well what I'm doing right now is modifying a cheap hazmat suit and trying to line it with lead, I plan to cover all over but I want to know where I should focus more of my lead.

Yea, organs and head. Do you have a source of leaded glass? No idea how much protection from that. What are you using to line it?

Good luck, not an easy project.

Offline Carl

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Offline Atomic Punk

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2017, 11:07:30 AM »
Something reminded me of this story, seemed a good idea to share it. This link doesn't have pictures. If you want them, just use google. You probably dont want to see the pictures.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2009/01/11/books/book-reviews/learning-life-lessons-in-83-days-of-death/#.WJ4ALcuIbqA

endurance

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 03:43:14 AM »
Regarding what to protect, I remember reading that protecting the femurs was important because a large portion of our red blood cells are produce in the marrow of the femur. Since red blood cells are one of the more vulnerable cells in the body to radiation, the ability to replace them is of the upmost importance.

Regarding exposure protection, the more hours you can get the most protection, the longer you'll live with the least risk of illness. If you can make a spot in your basement just big enough to sleep and spend the most time there, sleeping and resting, that's ideal. The first 72 hours will present the highest risk, the first 14 days are critical because some of the most active elements are rapidly decaying. Radiation levels will be elevated for years to come, but it's the fast decaying, highly active particles that pose the greatest risk initially. While you might venture out of your basement after two weeks, you should still spend as much time sheltered as you can for the next few months. Having the ability to measure radiation will help you know what spots to avoid, since there's likely to be hot spots where fallout collects. Think about where rain water runniff goes and collects, like near downspouts and ditches and avoid spending significant time in these areas.

And realize, you could just have dumb luck and survive two nuclear blasts with no protection and live to be 93. https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/world/asia/07yamaguchi.html?referer=

DaMeteor

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2017, 01:31:55 PM »
I'll be sealing off my basement area and will need to create a manually operated air pump, my current situation allows me to stay for at least 15 days in shelter without surfacing, my current (and more realistic) goal is at least 3 months, then I'll build to 6 months and eventually one year, might only have enough time to build up for 3 months food/water supply with the way things are looking in North Korea...

nkawtg

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2017, 03:45:35 PM »
North Korea is the least of your concerns.

endurance

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2017, 07:51:17 PM »
North Korea is the least of your concerns.
Agreed.  Russia remains the real concern unless you happen to just be unlucky enough to be the one or two places that could be reached by NK.

Offline Carl

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2017, 05:46:55 AM »
North Korea is the least of your concerns.

They are more likely to blow themselves up with their recent history of testing.

Offline scoob

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2017, 10:25:36 AM »
Thinking out loud here... Interesting that, of all the discussion one can find on this topic, rarely does one run across the mention of sanitation when holed-up in a basement or bunker.  Food and water for a couple of weeks to several months, sure... but what goes in, must come out.  :o  Bucket and bags?  Sawdust?  Kitty litter?  Composting toilet?  Also, there is more to ventilation than just a pipe, fan, and filter.


DaMeteor

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2017, 09:35:17 AM »
Yea, organs and head. Do you have a source of leaded glass? No idea how much protection from that. What are you using to line it?

Good luck, not an easy project.
Thanks for info, will need to buy more lead, and I don't have anything to line for face O_O LOL

DaMeteor

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2017, 09:41:33 AM »
Agreed.  Russia remains the real concern unless you happen to just be unlucky enough to be the one or two places that could be reached by NK.
Yeah I completely agree, but I believe NK will start/trigger nuclear war, and Russia/China will follow through. And with North Korea being far more unstable and likely to launch, I see the catalyst of the war as the immediate threat.

Offline Atomic Punk

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »
Ok, found the text on some of what i was talking about.

23-21. The symptoms of radiation injuries include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting. The severity of these symptoms is due to the extreme sensitivity of the gastrointestinal tract to radiation. The severity of the symptoms and the speed of onset after exposure are good indicators of the degree of radiation damage. The gastrointestinal damage can come from either the external or the internal radiation hazard.


23-24. Time is important, in two ways, when you are in a survival situation. First, radiation dosages are cumulative. The longer you are exposed to a radioactive source, the greater the dose you will receive. Obviously, spend as little time in a radioactive area as possible. Second, radioactivity decreases or decays over time. This concept is known as radioactive half-life. Thus, a radioactive element decays or loses half of its radioactivity within a certain time. The rule of thumb for radioactivity decay is that it decreases in intensity by a factor of ten for every sevenfold increase in time following the peak radiation level. For example, if a nuclear fallout area had a maximum radiation rate of 200 cGy per hour when fallout is complete, this rate would fall to 20 cGy per hour after 7 hours; it would fall still further to 2 cGy per hour after 49 hours. Even an untrained observer can see that the greatest hazard from fallout occurs immediately after detonation, and that the hazard decreases quickly over a relatively short time. You should try to avoid fallout areas until the radioactivity decays to safe levels. If you can avoid fallout areas long enough for most of the radioactivity to decay, you enhance your chance of survival.



23-25. Distance provides very effective protection against penetrating gamma radiation because radiation intensity decreases by the square of the distance from the source. For example, if exposed to 1,000 cGy of radiation standing 30 centimeters (12 inches) from the source, at 60 centimeters (24 inches), you would only receive 250 cGy. Thus, when you double the distance, radiation decreases to (0.5)2 or 0.25 the amount. While this formula is valid for concentrated sources of radiation in small areas, it becomes more complicated for large areas of radiation such as fallout areas.


Offline Carl

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2017, 10:30:49 AM »
The symptoms of radiation injuries include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting...
That's the same as my chemo...no wonder my urine glows in the dark. :zombie:

Offline Atomic Punk

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2017, 10:30:58 AM »
Exposure Timetable

23-39. The following timetable provides you with the information needed to avoid receiving a serious dosage and still let you cope with survival problems:

Complete isolation from 4 to 6 days following delivery of the last weapon.

A very brief exposure to get water on the third day is permissible, but exposure should not exceed 30 minutes.

One exposure of not more than 30 minutes on the seventh day.

One exposure of not more than 1 hour on the eighth day.

Exposure of 2 to 4 hours from the ninth day through the twelfth day.

Normal operation, followed by rest in a protected shelter, from the thirteenth day on.

In all instances, make your exposures as brief as possible. Consider only mandatory requirements as valid reasons for exposure. Decontaminate at every stop.

23-40. The times given above are conservative. If forced to move after the first or second day, you may do so. Make sure that the exposure is no longer than absolutely necessary


Offline RitaRose1945

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2017, 11:15:45 AM »
Okay, this is interesting.  I'm used to talking about dealing with radiation exposure because of the imaging we use at work.  But that's obviously in controlled situations, where you have some say in just how much you're willing to get on any given day.

I don't know why it never occurred to me that the same data was applicable to warfare.

endurance

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2017, 11:30:36 AM »
The symptoms of radiation injuries include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting...
That's the same as my chemo...no wonder my urine glows in the dark. :zombie:
The reason behind that is most chemo targets the fastest growing cells in the body.  The intestinal walls are replaced every 24-36 hours in a healthy adult.  Same with the lining of your mouth.  Hair cells are constantly producing new material.  Thus, when you attack those fast reproducing cells, be it through radiation or chemo and they can't replicate, you get hair loss, mouth sores, nausea, and diarrhea.  Brutal stuff to go through, but that's why the similarities.

I remember my ex searching and finally finding triple mix to manage her mouth sores.  Miserable stuff to deal with.

Offline Carl

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2017, 11:34:04 AM »
The reason behind that is most chemo targets the fastest growing cells in the body.  The intestinal walls are replaced every 24-36 hours in a healthy adult.  Same with the lining of your mouth.  Hair cells are constantly producing new material.  Thus, when you attack those fast reproducing cells, be it through radiation or chemo and they can't replicate, you get hair loss, mouth sores, nausea, and diarrhea.  Brutal stuff to go through, but that's why the similarities.

I remember my ex searching and finally finding triple mix to manage her mouth sores.  Miserable stuff to deal with.

That pretty much describes what I have going on,though I did not know WHY, the fast cells sounds like a good reason.

endurance

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2017, 02:54:35 PM »
Cancer cells are cancer cells because they're repeating an error that makes them repeat an error.  They don't know how to do what the cells were originally meant to do; all they now how to do is replicate, so that's what they do and as fast as they can.

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2017, 05:04:12 PM »
Ok, found the text on some of what i was talking about.

23-21. The symptoms of radiation injuries include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting. The severity of these symptoms is due to the extreme sensitivity of the gastrointestinal tract to radiation. The severity of the symptoms and the speed of onset after exposure are good indicators of the degree of radiation damage. The gastrointestinal damage can come from either the external or the internal radiation hazard.


23-24. Time is important, in two ways, when you are in a survival situation. First, radiation dosages are cumulative. The longer you are exposed to a radioactive source, the greater the dose you will receive. Obviously, spend as little time in a radioactive area as possible. Second, radioactivity decreases or decays over time. This concept is known as radioactive half-life. Thus, a radioactive element decays or loses half of its radioactivity within a certain time. The rule of thumb for radioactivity decay is that it decreases in intensity by a factor of ten for every sevenfold increase in time following the peak radiation level. For example, if a nuclear fallout area had a maximum radiation rate of 200 cGy per hour when fallout is complete, this rate would fall to 20 cGy per hour after 7 hours; it would fall still further to 2 cGy per hour after 49 hours. Even an untrained observer can see that the greatest hazard from fallout occurs immediately after detonation, and that the hazard decreases quickly over a relatively short time. You should try to avoid fallout areas until the radioactivity decays to safe levels. If you can avoid fallout areas long enough for most of the radioactivity to decay, you enhance your chance of survival.



23-25. Distance provides very effective protection against penetrating gamma radiation because radiation intensity decreases by the square of the distance from the source. For example, if exposed to 1,000 cGy of radiation standing 30 centimeters (12 inches) from the source, at 60 centimeters (24 inches), you would only receive 250 cGy. Thus, when you double the distance, radiation decreases to (0.5)2 or 0.25 the amount. While this formula is valid for concentrated sources of radiation in small areas, it becomes more complicated for large areas of radiation such as fallout areas.
Thanks for this info, I didn't realize that it worked like this LOL. I thought that it was like 200gcy first instance for example, 7 hours later 20, 7 hours after that 2, not 49 hours afterwards that it'd be 2 LOL.

Offline Chemsoldier

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Re: General Nuclear War Discussion Place
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2017, 10:57:54 AM »
I have not had a chance to compare this with what I know of nuclear fallout avoidance TTPs and will probably not have time to pull out the slide ruler anytime soon, but the once over doesn't trip my bullsh*t radar so far.

http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/if-a-nuclear-bomb-is-dropped-on-your-city-heres-where-you-should-run-and-hide/all/