Author Topic: Dealing with encroachment  (Read 1817 times)

Offline ga-qhd

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Dealing with encroachment
« on: June 04, 2017, 05:16:54 AM »
I have a friend who just bought a house (it's a typical exurban lot of about 3/4 acre).  The back half of his lot is wooded.  He wants to put in some fruit trees this winter.  Based on the county's GIS map, his neighbors have an outdoor fire pit about 30' across the line in his yard back in a sort of semi-glade in the trees.  That's awkward.  Probably the easiest way to have dealt with this would've been to do a survey as part of the sale, with property line marking, which would've led to innocuous and simultaneous discovery of the boundary on the part of all concerned.  That didn't happen. Asking about it doesn't seem to be a great way to get to know the neighbors, who probably don't really know where the property line is.  Ignoring it is one possible option, but that could lead to problems, too, depending on where the neighbors think the line is.  They could at some point decide to remove some trees that aren't theirs, for example, which would be a bigger mess in more ways than one.  Any thoughts?


Offline keebler

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 06:30:24 AM »
Last Fall (Nov) i started to buy a place near Richmond Va the Realtor had what she thought was the plat. what she had was over 30 + years old & wrong, I took a metal detector to it and found 3 of the 4 markers. existing markers neighbors didn't know what was right either ( $900.oo later I have the truth, it was well worth it to me. now i have 6'tall Painted Orange fence posts driven in the ground 2" just inside the actual markings ."benefit of doubt". I actually gained 20+ ft across the front line. Back neighbor's wooden fence is on my land..i have cut trees back to be off the line. whether he likes it or not---plus i sprayed some Weed killer( not Roundup ,but better on all the poison ivy back there a Nice 3' dead zone..
spend the money. Im glad i did.
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Offline Skispcs

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 07:30:14 AM »
The online GIS for my property is way off from ground truth, pun intended. He should definitely get the survey. If I could go back in time I would have got one done on this property even though they want close to $3K for it.

Offline ga-qhd

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 02:20:25 PM »
Since it's a residential lot the survey shouldn't be too costly, I would hope: I paid about $1K for the survey of my rural place (11 acres, 5 pins) but I'd expect his to be around $300-$500.  I'll suggest that.  He could always let the neighbors know he's doing it to plan out where to plant his trees this fall and winter so it hopefully wouldn't come across too badly.


Offline kckndrgn

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 12:05:41 PM »
I just had my property surveyed so I can build a garage.  Cost was $500.00 and well worth it.  When I moved in there were 3 fend posts (t-posts, metal) that marked the corners.  But I needed the 4th corner so I could get the PL correct (building can be no closer than 15' to the PL).  What my neighbor and I thought was the corner between turned out to be incorrect and gave me an additional 3' of property.

I would approach it this way.  Get the survey scheduled (mine took 2 weeks to get added to the schedule), inform the neighbor that you are having a property survey done so he can make sure that the trees he's planting are on his property.  Then let the lines fall where they are, if the firepit is on his property, inform the neighbor.  I could be that the GIS map is wrong or not overlayed properly.

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Offline mountainmoma

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 12:14:25 PM »
I have a friend who just bought a house (it's a typical exurban lot of about 3/4 acre).  The back half of his lot is wooded.  He wants to put in some fruit trees this winter.  Based on the county's GIS map, his neighbors have an outdoor fire pit about 30' across the line in his yard back in a sort of semi-glade in the trees.  That's awkward.  Probably the easiest way to have dealt with this would've been to do a survey as part of the sale, with property line marking, which would've led to innocuous and simultaneous discovery of the boundary on the part of all concerned.  That didn't happen. Asking about it doesn't seem to be a great way to get to know the neighbors, who probably don't really know where the property line is.  Ignoring it is one possible option, but that could lead to problems, too, depending on where the neighbors think the line is.  They could at some point decide to remove some trees that aren't theirs, for example, which would be a bigger mess in more ways than one.  Any thoughts?

they need to talk to the neighbors. Having a copy of the map, and measuring out from the front surveying marker to the back and marking that before talking to them can help. If they cant find the official survey markers, then they need to hire a surveyer, as mentioned. 
My neighbors kids used to play in the wooded area that is in my yard, I mentioned it to her and told her I didnt mind them playing there, but they needed to not cut on the trees, and later, when she added a grey water line that dumped in my property, I had to go talk to her gain and move it, I actually moved it a few feet myself, as it was just corragated pipe. It is better to mark the the lines now and not wait. Marking hte lines doesnt mean the have to keep the neighbors out, unless they want to, but it at least lets the neighbor know -- a reminder -- that this is a favor to let the kids roam around in the woods there or what have you
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Offline Carl

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 02:41:39 PM »
  I had a friend,an attorney, who bought land that was on the Louisiana/Arkansas state line and he had confrontations with deer hunters who put hunting stands and such on "HIS" land. I told him to get the land surveyed and even offered to loan the money for the survey. Confrontation continued and 10/10/2010 he was shot by non-uniformed law officers who said they were there to serve papers...some of the members of the hunting club he was having trouble with...Right or wrong , nothing will bring him back. He was a good friend.


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Offline archer

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 05:25:56 PM »
  I had a friend,an attorney, who bought land that was on the Louisiana/Arkansas state line and he had confrontations with deer hunters who put hunting stands and such on "HIS" land. I told him to get the land surveyed and even offered to loan the money for the survey. Confrontation continued and 10/10/2010 he was shot by non-uniformed law officers who said they were there to serve papers...some of the members of the hunting club he was having trouble with...Right or wrong , nothing will bring him back. He was a good friend.


Do the right thing or your problems can grow.

sorry about that Carl.
when in doubt, get a survey done.


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Offline ga-qhd

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 01:33:32 AM »
I don't think things will end in major trouble (violence or adverse possession), but I recommended he pursue it soon. 

Offline Carl

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 04:03:26 AM »
I don't think things will end in major trouble (violence or adverse possession), but I recommended he pursue it soon.

No,I suggest he approach the neighbor and say the he is pretty sure that they have accidentally occupied his land and see if they know,or accept,that the land was not theirs. How you approach the situation can set the tone of following conversation. As a lawyer,John was not the kind to back down and right or wrong means little to anyone now.
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Offline CagedFeral

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 04:43:50 AM »
I have fairly new neighbors who bought the land & double wide behind me.  They have a right of way to it.  They moved here Literally thinking that mowed lines represent property borders! They bought and are now mad at us because they don't owe again, "Literally" half of my property!  They are mad at us because they never looked into what they bought.

I know where the pins are. I found them about 20 years ago.

This is a Millennial (about 28) who wears a "man bun" & thinks he owes my land because of gov't gis maps!
He ignores the fact that to even see the map you have to agree to a disclaimer saying that these lines are most likely off.

This is just another example of our govt schools.  No deductive reasoning. He's not even man enough to talk to me. Passive aggressive mowing when he knows we aren't around. All he'd have to do is be neighborly and talk to me. I could show and explain but some Millennial's trust gov't over all others.
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Offline Cedar

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 05:23:11 AM »
....and good fences make good neighbors. And if they really are good neighbors, add the 'good neighbor gate' in. If they are not such great neighbors, plant blackberries on the fenceline.  ::)

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Offline CagedFeral

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 05:05:22 AM »
Ceder. I just set 72ft of T post for blackberries recently. It is offset below a power line that runs cross my land.

You have a very good idea here though.. A thorned blackberry would make an excellent border.  I guess I'd set it about 7ft inside my property line though. I'd want to run my 54" mower on both sides. I'd hate to here his baby thin arms got snagged by my berries!

 
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Offline outoforder2day

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 09:24:46 AM »
I have a friend who just bought a house (it's a typical exurban lot of about 3/4 acre).  The back half of his lot is wooded.  He wants to put in some fruit trees this winter.  Based on the county's GIS map, his neighbors have an outdoor fire pit about 30' across the line in his yard back in a sort of semi-glade in the trees.  That's awkward.  Probably the easiest way to have dealt with this would've been to do a survey as part of the sale, with property line marking, which would've led to innocuous and simultaneous discovery of the boundary on the part of all concerned.  That didn't happen. Asking about it doesn't seem to be a great way to get to know the neighbors, who probably don't really know where the property line is.  Ignoring it is one possible option, but that could lead to problems, too, depending on where the neighbors think the line is.  They could at some point decide to remove some trees that aren't theirs, for example, which would be a bigger mess in more ways than one.  Any thoughts?

Simple solution: Your friend goes and talks to the neighbor because he's planning on "having some work done" in the back and want's to be sure he's not encroaching on anything. He then wants to get a survey done to be sure. If the neighbor is nice and your friend is right about the encroachment, you can let them keep using the fire pit. If the neighbor's not nice, you don't... but that's going to make for a bad neighbor int he long run, so it's best avoided if possible.
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Offline Carl

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:49 AM »
  Spray paint a pentagram on the smooth soil near the fire pit  :rofl:
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Offline fred.greek

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 05:22:45 PM »
Granted, our lot is small, but when we bought it 20 some years ago, we got a survey.  I wanted to put up a better fence, and claimed to anyone who asked the contractor insisted on a survey to keep him out of any future dispute...
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Offline ga-qhd

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 08:26:23 AM »
Simple solution: Your friend goes and talks to the neighbor because he's planning on "having some work done" in the back and want's to be sure he's not encroaching on anything. He then wants to get a survey done to be sure. If the neighbor is nice and your friend is right about the encroachment, you can let them keep using the fire pit. If the neighbor's not nice, you don't... but that's going to make for a bad neighbor int he long run, so it's best avoided if possible.

Thanks...I don't know how he'll deal with it but he'd probably do something like you suggest--let them keep using it if they are nice.  Even if he is inclined to leave things be, I have reminded him there are a number of bad things that can go down if he doesn't establish for all concerned where the line is--one is that the neighbors might fell a tree or two for firewood with winter coming.  He's been dragging his feet but it's his issue to deal with.  He's already been there a couple of months.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 08:34:53 AM by ga-qhd »

Offline Morning Sunshine

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Re: Dealing with encroachment
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2017, 09:42:52 AM »
Thanks...I don't know how he'll deal with it but he'd probably do something like you suggest--let them keep using it if they are nice.  Even if he is inclined to leave things be, I have reminded him there are a number of bad things that can go down if he doesn't establish for all concerned where the line is--one is that the neighbors might fell a tree or two for firewood with winter coming.  He's been dragging his feet but it's his issue to deal with.  He's already been there a couple of months.

don't forget asset forfeiture - depending on where you live, if they start doing illegal stuff there (ie - meth lab), the authorities could seize YOUR property as it was used in the commission of a crime.  Regardless of if you knew or allowed.  Read this one: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/03/us/philadelphia-drug-bust-house-seizure/ 
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