Author Topic: post vegas shooting  (Read 3030 times)

Offline iam4liberty

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1498
  • Karma: 117
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2017, 10:13:25 PM »
Here is another example of potential changes being made as result of shooting.  It has been leaked (not officially confirmed yet) that incendiary rounds were used against the fuel tanks.  So they will need to figure out how to better protect them.  Unfortunately, precautions are being slowed by the lapse in information sharing:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/sheriff-calls-for-more-protection-of-fuel-tanks-targeted-by-las-vegas-shooter/

Offline Carl

  • Mr HamTastic!
  • Forum Veteran
  • *********
  • Posts: 10830
  • Karma: 597
  • COW?...No ,I haven't seen your cow.
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2017, 03:57:04 AM »
Here is another example of potential changes being made as result of shooting.  It has been leaked (not officially confirmed yet) that incendiary rounds were used against the fuel tanks.  So they will need to figure out how to better protect them.  Unfortunately, precautions are being slowed by the lapse in information sharing:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/sheriff-calls-for-more-protection-of-fuel-tanks-targeted-by-las-vegas-shooter/

This may stem from his wanting to purchase TRACER rounds that are legal but rarely found on surplus market.
Stop complaining about life and start Celebrating it .

I've reached the age where there is little left to learn the hard way.

If you had only one year,one month,or one day...Would you live your life differently?

Offline iam4liberty

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1498
  • Karma: 117
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #92 on: October 13, 2017, 07:00:48 AM »
This may stem from his wanting to purchase TRACER rounds that are legal but rarely found on surplus market.

The leaks are saying that there were only two scoped rifles and these were installed on stabalizing tripods, one in front of each window.  The note with "accurate" bullet drop information was most likely for these rifles to engage the airport fuel tanks.  This is probably the reason for breaking two windows, that is two specific targets.  The incendiary rounds were for these rifles but they didnt say how they know that (eg. were they a different caliber, were they found in or near these rifles, or if the recovered bullets which hit hit the tanks were of that type). Net, there was more to this plan than origionally suggested.

The tracers were alleged to be able to improve the ability of the bumpstock rifles.  But now there is uncomfirmed talk that there was a true full automatic found too. We dont yet know how many rounds were fired or the extent of injuries of the approximately 400 injured. So it is hard to piece together an accurate picture of the shooter's plan.  There is so much the authorities are keeping hidden from the public.

Offline iam4liberty

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1498
  • Karma: 117
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2017, 10:09:03 AM »
Libertarian Party issues strong statement against "placebo politics":

https://www.lp.org/why-guns-matter/

Why guns matter

by Staff on October 4, 2017 in News

In the aftermath of the Las Vegas terrorist attack, as many of us search for something to blame, some will arrive at guns. That anger will apply both to guns and to your friends and acquaintances who support guns. Before reaching that conclusion in sadness and anger, however, I ask you to consider why millions of people, many of whom are in your own families, many of whom are your friends and neighbors, so deeply support gun rights. Why do so many intelligent people believe that blaming guns doesn’t make sense?

It’s difficult to get away with murder. It’s easy to commit murder, though, for somebody who doesn’t care about the consequences. It’s easy to murder a single person with a knife, a brick, or a shovel.

It’s also easy to kill large groups of people for somebody who doesn’t care about the consequences — somebody who plans to die anyway.

Driving a car into a school bus, or flying a plane into a skyscraper, using poison, fire, or homemade bombs are all possibilities for somebody determined to murder others. If somebody simply doesn’t care about the consequences, there are many ways to commit mass murder.

Firearms, unlike most of the above examples, are also highly effective defensive weapons. A homemade pipe bomb is not a great defensive weapon against an assailant. If you use it, you hurt yourself as much as the assailant. Poison would be an inconvenient weapon to use against a would-be mugger or rapist. A car can be used to kill a busload of kids, but it’s not a great weapon for self-defense. And, although a 747 jet can be used in a terrorist attack, it’s difficult to imagine how to use one to defend your home against an invader.

Guns, however, are effective defensive weapons. Simply brandishing a gun can often scare off a potential assailant, an effect that does not exist when brandishing a vial of poison or a 747.

There are a million ways to commit mass murder for somebody who doesn’t care about the consequences, but there are fewer ways to defend against violent assailants, or groups of violent assailants. Guns aren’t always effective as a defense in every situation, and I doubt they would have done much good in Las Vegas. Even the best tools and medicines don’t work for 100 percent of cases.

The terrorist attack in Las Vegas is the result of pure evil, or of a mind so broken as to no longer be meaningfully human. It was no crime of passion, but a planned assault carried out with military planning and precision. Someone willing to do all that damage could have found plenty of other ways to kill.

Blaming guns is easy, but it’s meaningless. The gun laws and waiting periods are distractive scapegoating, keeping our minds focused away from the truth that with or without guns, we are vulnerable. Carrying guns can make us safer, but nothing makes us 100 percent safe. Gun bans function as placebos that add no safety, only granting the illusion thereof.

We deserve better than placebo politics, where meaningless actions are taken to make us feel like something useful is happening. Legally, I believe in repealing all gun laws. They are nothing but distractions. They are simply nuisances for peaceful gun owners, and placebos for those who understand little about guns or the hundreds of other ways to kill.

As individuals, as communities, let’s try to understand and handle the actual problem: people becoming so twisted that they are willing to engage in mass murder, indifferent to the consequences. Yes, that’s a more complex problem, a harder challenge to face. It’s not something that can be accomplished with some placebo law. It is the real problem, though, the only honest and relevant challenge.

Respectfully,

Arvin Vohra
Vice Chair
Libertarian Party
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 10:35:24 AM by iam4liberty »

Offline iam4liberty

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1498
  • Karma: 117
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #94 on: Today at 06:06:49 PM »
Good explanation of ATF decision on bump stocks from one who helped make it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kryIJIrD5eQ

The NRA was very disingenuous in their criticism given that they were accurately following the definitions as laid out by law.  However, it does confirm (as do other statements from the officers involved) that the decision was sent up the chain of command and so that was factually true.

Offline NWPilgrim

  • Dedicated Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 1431
  • Karma: 96
  • New TSP Forum member
Re: post vegas shooting
« Reply #95 on: Today at 09:38:08 PM »
Libertarian Party issues strong statement against "placebo politics":

https://www.lp.org/why-guns-matter/

Why guns matter

by Staff on October 4, 2017 in News

In the aftermath of the Las Vegas terrorist attack...

Very well written article.  It brought out some ideas I had not explicitly considered before: many ways to kill, but few effective means for defense, guns being one of the best.

I think another thing s that has to be drummed hard on, is "It is ridiculous to even talk about new gun laws when we still do not have police evidence released yet stating which, if any, of the guns in the hotel room were shot, which, if any caused death or injury."  We have politicians running around trying to stir up a panic when all we have is one photo of a couple of rifles out of the 23 that were supposedly found.  One of those had a bump stock.  We don't know if it was actually fired.  We don't even know based on released information if the alleged shooter actually did any shooting.  How insane is it to even discuss ANY new laws, let alone gun laws, when we have practically zero evidence released?

I would use the above argument just to cool off any hot head anxious to pass a law.  The fundamental issue is more along the lines of the above article: guns are uniquely suited for personal defense unlike a multitude of other means for killing people, and therefore must not be restricted.
There have always been times like this, and there will be again. Will we rise to the challenges or get run over?